In search of U.S. notary services in Phuket

[Major Payne]

I am an American living in the Phuket area. I am just beginning escrow on a house I am selling in the US to my brother. The Escrow Company tells me I need to go to the US Embassy to notarize the documents.. Does anyone know how I can get these escrow documents notarized without having to go all the way to Bangkok.? Any advice much appreciated. Thank you

[ThailandRyan]

Unfortunately you will need to go to the US Embassy in Bangkok.  You can make a notary appointment on-line through the embassies citizens services webpage.  Hope it all works out well for you.

 

Notary Services | U.S. Embassy & Consulate in Thailand

 

Last I looked they were about a month out on the appointment calendar.

 

Make an Appointment | U.S. Embassy & Consulate in Thailand 21 appointments on April 6th as of right now.

 

[DrDave]

ThailandRyan is correct. You'll need to get your documents notarized at the US embassy.  I had a similar situation a few years back, when selling my father's home in the US. I traveled to Bangkok and received the documents via FedEx at a hotel there. Took them to the US embassy to be notarized ($50 a pop if I recall correctly), then FedEx'd them back to the US. The whole process took about 5 days including shipping the documents back and forth. Not convenient, but there's really no choice.

[Jingthing]

Yes, it will need to be at the embassy.

That said, you might want to research whether the state of the document in question will allow online notarization. It varies state by state but there has been more flexibility because of the pandemic. But your state might allow it but still need you to be in state for the online session, so I wouldn't get your hopes up. You might think the escrow company would have suggested that if possible but if I were you I would  at least do my own research first.

[ThailandRyan]

I just went through all of this for an escrow company and bank in California that I sold my fathers house through.  I also needed court documents notarized for the Family trust as well.  In all I had 4 documents. $200 USD paId by CC to the Embassy, and then DHL sent them all back to the 4 different locations for me arriving 7 days from when I mailed them.  Cost for each package was around 1400 baht.  Online notaries are not allowed for California as of now.

 

The Embassy notary will also put a non removable brass brad through all pages of each document so you can not remove any pages.  After I had the documents notarized I went to a copy place on Rama 4 and had copies made of all pages so I could scan them into my computer and email them out as well just before I mailed them with DHL located on Silom Rd.

[Major Payne]

Thank you everyone for your helpful information. Something a little interesting has developed since my post. My Title Company in Oregon that initially insisted I must go to the Embassy contacted me and said that they will accept a Thai notary for the escrow documents. They stated that the attorney must Supply documentation that they are certified as a notary. I am assuming that would be Thailand Lawyers Association documentation. Sound to good to be true but I will soon find out.

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, Major Payne said:

Thank you everyone for your helpful information. Something a little interesting has developed since my post. My Title Company in Oregon that initially insisted I must go to the Embassy contacted me and said that they will accept a Thai notary for the escrow documents. They stated that the attorney must Supply documentation that they are certified as a notary. I am assuming that would be Thailand Lawyers Association documentation. Sound to good to be true but I will soon find out.

Are they aware Thailand is not a signatory to the international agreement?   A local notary would not be acceptable under normal international standards.  But if they will accept make sure it is legal for them to do so.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Are they aware Thailand is not a signatory to the international agreement?   A local notary would not be acceptable under normal international standards.  But if they will accept make sure it is legal for them to do so.

You are correct. Thailand isn't in it.

Apostille Convention - Wikipedia

I am very surprised that a Thai notary would actually be accepted anywhere in the U.S. for a real estate matter.

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You are correct. Thailand isn't in it.

Apostille Convention - Wikipedia

I am very surprised that a Thai notary would actually be accepted anywhere in the U.S. for a real estate matter.

I was told that it had to be notarized only at the US Embassy or consulate.  No other notaries would work as Thailand was not a member of the Hague and therefore non US based or non Hague apostles were unrecognized.  The bank I dealt with still actually sent the Notaries signature page with the seal info to Washington DC for verification.  Sticklers they were. Do your due diligence and check because if it's not accepted then you have lost both time and money 

[Jingthing]

Yes, my understanding again is that the only options are the embassy or online if online notaries are legal in the particular state.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Embassies or regional consulates usually have a list of in country”known” Notaries / Lawyers.

US Consulate in Phuket ? Many Lawyers here conduct Notary services. Maybe some even have US licensed Lawyers who cannot therefore be “ rejected” back in US ?

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Embassies or regional consulates usually have a list of in country”known” Notaries / Lawyers.

US Consulate in Phuket ? Many Lawyers here conduct Notary services. Maybe some even have US licensed Lawyers who cannot therefore be “ rejected” back in US ?

No US consulate in Phuket.

There is one in Chiang Mai though. 

If you contact the U.S. embassy they will refer you to the U.S  embassy notary service.

[Major Payne]

 did ask the US Embassy if they could refer me to any notary alternatives or US Embassy Liaisons other than the Bangkok US Embassy and they told me there is no other than the US Embassy. Perhaps there is a US notary floating around in Phuket somewhere? Not sure. I did locate a local Thai attorney that was kind enough to forward his notary certification to me and I sent it off 2 mi US based escrow Company and they forwarded to the city deeds and records for final approval. I should know sometime next week if I have beat the odds or not. Interesting little case.

[Major Payne]

A little update to my situation. I have hit a roadblock. Probably no surprise to many. After a Phuket based attorney forwarded to me his notary certificate, I forwarded it to my US based escrow agent. They forwarded it to the city and was told that not only was the certificate expired (go figure) but would not be acceptable even if it was not expired.

   It's too bad for me that out of 110 countries listed in The 1961 Hague convention treaty, Thailand is not one of them. If it was, perhaps I could forgo a trip to BKK. Even if it was, I think I would still have to have a judge sign off on the documents as well. If I was in Namibia or Uzbekistan perhaps this would have been easier ????.

     Still awaiting further dialogue with title agent to see if there are any rabbits hiding in the Hat. At this point, I am guessing there is not. If that is the case, I will need to go the obvious and most traveled path, that being off to Bangkok. If that is what ends up happening, I will be sure to turn it into a fun road trip with wifey and turn those lemons into a refreshing glass of lemonade. Thanks again for all of the input. Much appreciated.

[Jingthing]

Another fun thing to consider is whether any witnesses are required for your documents. As its obvious you'll be going to the embassy, keep in mind that the embassy staff will refuse to act as witnesses. So you either need to bring your own witnesses with you and they must have appointments too or beg random people in the lobby to do you a favor. 

[ThailandRyan]

25 minutes ago, Major Payne said:

A little update to my situation. I have hit a roadblock. Probably no surprise to many. After a Phuket based attorney forwarded to me his notary certificate, I forwarded it to my US based escrow agent. They forwarded it to the city and was told that not only was the certificate expired (go figure) but would not be acceptable even if it was not expired.

   It's too bad for me that out of 110 countries listed in The 1961 Hague convention treaty, Thailand is not one of them. If it was, perhaps I could forgo a trip to BKK. Even if it was, I think I would still have to have a judge sign off on the documents as well. If I was in Namibia or Uzbekistan perhaps this would have been easier ????.

     Still awaiting further dialogue with title agent to see if there are any rabbits hiding in the Hat. At this point, I am guessing there is not. If that is the case, I will need to go the obvious and most traveled path, that being off to Bangkok. If that is what ends up happening, I will be sure to turn it into a fun road trip with wifey and turn those lemons into a refreshing glass of lemonade. Thanks again for all of the input. Much appreciated.

Sorry, that this recent attempt hit a roadblock, but as I have said I just went through this same exact issue in January after my father passed and his house was on the market and then sold.  I needed the escrow and sales contract notarized as well as the Trust paperwork signed and a few Bank documents notarized for the banks to list myself as the Trustee of the family trust.  $50 dollars a notary.  The appointments are generally a month out as I indicated.  Best to make an appointment, and plan on flying into Bangkok in the morning, getting the documents notarized, finding a copy shop to make copies for your records, then send them out by either DHL, Fed Ex or UPS so they arrive in about 7 days where they need to go.  You may need to spend a night here in BKK or you might get lucky and get it all done in one day and return back home late in the evening.

 

No witnesses were needed for the documents for the sale of the house I did, nor the other documents, one for the court in California (Converting the Family Trust from a living trust to a Trustee for the now revocable trust), and the others for the two banks, so I could be placed on the Trust accounts as the trustee as directed by the original Trust document..

[Jingthing]

I recently did need a witness at the embassy. As I didn't bring one I was sweating bullets because of social distancing and random bad luck there wasn't anyone in the lobby at the time I needed one. Luckily someone showed up. But what if he had been a selfish a-hole?

[Major Payne]

Well, here is the conclusion to my International notary Odyssey.

      After a lot of attempts to try to beat the odds of me having to go the most traveled path of going  to the US Embassy in Bangkok for this escrow notary, from my most incompetent escrow agent leading me astray by making me believe a thailand-based notary will suffice, which it did not of course, not to mention, the notary credentials he forwarded to me were expired, then finally, I had the idea of using an online notary.

       My wonderful escrow agent told me that would work and I was so happy until she later told me that it would not work......... Now imagine that groan that Lurch from The Addams Family makes.........

     Then I get the idea of using a standard online notary service and I was informed by Ms. Wonderful that that would work until she later told me that it would not..........enter Lurch............

       In a last-ditch effort, I do some more research online and I discover that due to covid, the US Congress recently passed the R.O.N. Act ( remote online notary), mandating 28 States to except these types of notarizations during the covid crisis and....... Oregon was on the list. I suggested this to my agent and she finally got back to me with an approval to this approach and even told me that there is one particular R.O.N. company that her title company is contracted with and that that is the only company they are allowed to use. Go figure as to why she couldn't have suggested this to me a few weeks prior. To her credit, for lack of a better term....... she just didn't know. I'm going to leave it at that.

        After reaching out to the regional manager of this title company for some much-needed efficacy, this manager patiently walked me through the 36 pages of DocuSigning over the phone, informed me that the online notary I did the day before has been approved by the city and we were done.

      Unless Murphy's Law goes into a steroidal fit and returns to finish off, it looks like I actually did beat the odds this time. Everything is signed, we are closing. Finally I can relax and focus on what I do best, mindlessly mowing the lawn like a good American.

      Now as Jim would say...........

                  This

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                                           the

                                                           eeee

                                                                            eeeend......

 

                                                              

                    

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

heard about this issue with US property owner in my complex not being in thailand to sign property sale papers. then heard he was in fact dead,  his US inheritor family now own this place and that the sale process is somehow moving again. but how if the owner remains in USA ? any ideas how this might be happening ?