Global warming could cut over 60 countries' credit ratings by 2030, study warns

[RickBradford]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Except that Greta doesn't do her own predictions, she says 'listen to science'.

Yes, she knows nothing about the climate whatsoever and has to rely on what she is told.

 

"Listen to science" is a typically meaningless phrase promoted by the Green/Left.  It is simply code for "Listen to the science that agrees with what I want to promote, and ignore any science to the contrary."

 

Without wishing to go off topic, the number of times we have heard governments pronounce "Listen to science" in relation to the Covid situation, as they make a total mess of the whole thing, is indicative of how meaningless the phrase is.

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, the old deflection dodge...

Thanks for the confession, I guess.

[placeholder]

Biden plan to end U.S. fossil fuel subsidies faces big challenges

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-fossilfuel-subsidies/biden-plan-to-end-u-s-fossil-fuel-subsidies-faces-big-challenges-idUKKBN28B4T2

[gunderhill]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

A warning by the government, not a prediction, let alone a scientific prediction.

 

But if you were right that 30 years ago someone was wrong with this warning, let's do nothing, continue on the path we're on until it is too late.

I've went there in 1987 there is  no change, repeatedly  told they  will disappear for decades  now by almost any article you care to mention, I never mentioned NOT CHANGING, I'm questioning why they have not gone under as  virtually the lowest island chain. 

I also read that that infamous pacific  island  Tuvalu has another reason they get flooded that was due to dredging out the middle  of the island during ww2 i think.

The Maldives also over use their natural resources when I went there they were remote, now they even have cars on islands that are tiny, totally unnecessary, the population are destroying their own islands  not global warming. If  they were going under why do major  companies lease the islands build huge expensive resorts  even very recently.

The Maldivian   govt has repeatedly pushed their rising seas calamity, at one point even saying they would  buy land on the mainland India, sri lanka area to evacuate. The capital city is  over  run with people, their isn't a mm of  spare  land, the airport has been changed from a tin hut in the 1980's to a MASSIVE  complex.

Global warming won't  kill them but over population and tourism is along with their island made of refuse.

Thousands of pages saying theyre  going under, and its  been like that for decades 

https://www.google.com/search?q=maldives+global+warming&rlz=1C1CHZL_enTH896TH896&oq=maldives++global+warming&aqs=chrome..69i57.5545j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited March 27, 2021 by gunderhill

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, RickBradford said:

Yes, she knows nothing about the climate whatsoever and has to rely on what she is told.

Personal evidence free attacks. You don't have much use for evidence, do you? Because you've got none.

[placeholder]

10 hours ago, RickBradford said:

"Listen to science" is a typically meaningless phrase promoted by the Green/Left.  It is simply code for "Listen to the science that agrees with what I want to promote, and ignore any science to the contrary."

Maybe because the predictions of those few alternative "scientists" have repeatedly failed. I can still remember how they used misleading graphs that began in 1998 to show that global temperatures were falling and that the warming was fraudulent. Or that the ongoing decline in solar activity would cause global cooling.

[RickBradford]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Personal evidence free attacks. You don't have much use for evidence, do you? Because you've got none.

The evidence is perfectly clear. She talks nonsense in public, or at the very least, completely unsupported catastrophe stories. There's no secret about it, it's well documented.

 

She is a puppet reciting fables which she has been taught to repeat, as the recent 'toolkit' scandal in India clearly demonstrated.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/delhi-police-arrest-climate-activist-from-bangalore-in-toolkit-probe/articleshow/80906282.cms

 

As for failed predictions, nobody has produced more of them than the 'consensus' global warming lobby. They produce so many of these that it is hard to imagine they find the time to do anything else.

 

Here's their litany of failure related to one narrow topic, the Arctic ice melt:

 

Xinhua News Agency – 1 March 2008
“If Norway’s average temperature this year equals that in 2007, the ice cap in the Arctic will all melt away, which is highly possible judging from current conditions,” Orheim said.
[Dr. Olav Orheim - Norwegian International Polar Year Secretariat]
__________________

Canada.com – 16 November 2007
“According to these models, there will be no sea ice left in the summer in the Arctic Ocean somewhere between 2010 and 2015.

“And it’s probably going to happen even faster than that,” said Fortier.
[Professor Louis Fortier - Université Laval, Director ArcticNet]
__________________

National Geographic – 12 December 2007
“NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: “At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions.” 

[Dr. Jay Zwally - NASA]
__________________

BBC – 12 December 2007
“Our projection of 2013 for the removal of ice in summer is not accounting for the last two minima, in 2005 and 2007,”…….”So given that fact, you can argue that may be our projection of 2013 is already too conservative.”

[Professor Wieslaw Maslowski]
__________________

Independent – 27 June 2008
Exclusive: Scientists warn that there may be no ice at North Pole this summer
“…..It is quite likely that the North Pole will be exposed this summer – it’s not happened before,” Professor Wadhams said.”
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]
__________________

Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Sciences
Vol. 40: 625-654 – May 2012
The Future of Arctic Sea Ice
“…..one can project that at this rate it would take only 9 more years or until 2016 ± 3 years to reach a nearly ice-free Arctic Ocean in summer. Regardless of high uncertainty associated with such an estimate, it does provide a lower bound of the time range for projections of seasonal sea ice cover…..”
[Professor Wieslaw Maslowski]
__________________

Yale Environment360 – 30 August 2012
“If this rate of melting [in 2012] is sustained in 2013, we are staring down the barrel and looking at a summer Arctic which is potentially free of sea ice within this decade,”
[Dr. Mark Drinkwater]
__________________

Guardian – 17 September 2012
“This collapse, I predicted would occur in 2015-16 at which time the summer Arctic (August to September) would become ice-free. The final collapse towards that state is now happening and will probably be complete by those dates“.
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]
__________________

Sierra Club – March 23, 2013
“For the record—I do not think that any sea ice will survive this summer. An event unprecedented in human history is today, this very moment, transpiring in the Arctic Ocean….”
[Paul Beckwith - PhD student paleoclimatology and climatology - part-time professor]
__________________

Financial Times Magazine – 2 August 2013
“It could even be this year or next year but not later than 2015 there won’t be any ice in the Arctic in the summer,”
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]

 

The Arctic is doing just fine, as of 2020. The predictions are the usual sorry tale of bad science repackaged as scare stories for the media to advertise.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

As for failed predictions, nobody has produced more of them than the 'consensus' global warming lobby. They produce so many of these that it is hard to imagine they find the time to do anything else.

 

Here's their litany of failure related to one narrow topic, the Arctic ice melt:

 

Xinhua News Agency – 1 March 2008
“If Norway’s average temperature this year equals that in 2007, the ice cap in the Arctic will all melt away, which is highly possible judging from current conditions,” Orheim said.
[Dr. Olav Orheim - Norwegian International Polar Year Secretariat]
__________________

Canada.com – 16 November 2007
“According to these models, there will be no sea ice left in the summer in the Arctic Ocean somewhere between 2010 and 2015.

“And it’s probably going to happen even faster than that,” said Fortier.
[Professor Louis Fortier - Université Laval, Director ArcticNet]
__________________

National Geographic – 12 December 2007
“NASA climate scientist Jay Zwally said: “At this rate, the Arctic Ocean could be nearly ice-free at the end of summer by 2012, much faster than previous predictions.” 

[Dr. Jay Zwally - NASA]
__________________

BBC – 12 December 2007
“Our projection of 2013 for the removal of ice in summer is not accounting for the last two minima, in 2005 and 2007,”…….”So given that fact, you can argue that may be our projection of 2013 is already too conservative.”

[Professor Wieslaw Maslowski]
__________________

Independent – 27 June 2008
Exclusive: Scientists warn that there may be no ice at North Pole this summer
“…..It is quite likely that the North Pole will be exposed this summer – it’s not happened before,” Professor Wadhams said.”
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]
__________________

Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Sciences
Vol. 40: 625-654 – May 2012
The Future of Arctic Sea Ice
“…..one can project that at this rate it would take only 9 more years or until 2016 ± 3 years to reach a nearly ice-free Arctic Ocean in summer. Regardless of high uncertainty associated with such an estimate, it does provide a lower bound of the time range for projections of seasonal sea ice cover…..”
[Professor Wieslaw Maslowski]
__________________

Yale Environment360 – 30 August 2012
“If this rate of melting [in 2012] is sustained in 2013, we are staring down the barrel and looking at a summer Arctic which is potentially free of sea ice within this decade,”
[Dr. Mark Drinkwater]
__________________

Guardian – 17 September 2012
“This collapse, I predicted would occur in 2015-16 at which time the summer Arctic (August to September) would become ice-free. The final collapse towards that state is now happening and will probably be complete by those dates“.
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]
__________________

Sierra Club – March 23, 2013
“For the record—I do not think that any sea ice will survive this summer. An event unprecedented in human history is today, this very moment, transpiring in the Arctic Ocean….”
[Paul Beckwith - PhD student paleoclimatology and climatology - part-time professor]
__________________

Financial Times Magazine – 2 August 2013
“It could even be this year or next year but not later than 2015 there won’t be any ice in the Arctic in the summer,”
[Professor Peter Wadhams - Cambridge University]

 

The Arctic is doing just fine, as of 2020. The predictions are the usual sorry tale of bad science repackaged as scare stories for the media to advertise.

First you take outlier positions and apparently want to present them as a consensus. What does the IPCC say? That represents a consensus of scientific opinion, While those few may have gotten the dates wrong, the fact is that arctic sea ice is in serious decline. .

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/147746/the-long-decline-of-arctic-sea-ice

 

And, no, the Arctic isn't doing just fine.

How Thawing Permafrost Is Beginning to Transform the Arctic

The frozen layer of soil that has underlain the Arctic tundra for millennia is now starting to thaw. This thawing, which could release vast amounts of greenhouse gases, is already changing the Arctic landscape by causing landslides, draining lakes, and altering vegetation.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-melting-permafrost-is-beginning-to-transform-the-arctic

Permafrost Thaw in a Warming World: The Arctic Institute’s Permafrost Series Fall-Winter 2020

https://www.thearcticinstitute.org/permafrost-thaw-warming-world-arctic-institute-permafrost-series-fall-winter-2020/#:~:text=Opportunities-,Permafrost Thaw in a Warming World%3A The Arctic,Permafrost Series Fall-Winter 2020&text=Permafrost temperatures are rising at,result%2C permafrost layers are melting.

 

 

 

[placeholder]

57 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

The evidence is perfectly clear. She talks nonsense in public, or at the very least, completely unsupported catastrophe stories. There's no secret about it, it's well documented.

 

She is a puppet reciting fables which she has been taught to repeat, as the recent 'toolkit' scandal in India clearly demonstrated.

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/delhi-police-arrest-climate-activist-from-bangalore-in-toolkit-probe/articleshow/80906282.cms

 

You claim the evidence is clear yet you cite none.

Unless you mean that ridiculous story from the Times of India which is utterly irrelevant to your charges. That said,. the Modi government has repeatedly been condemned for coming up with trumped-up charges against people who oppose it.

 

India cracks down on climate activists supporting farmer protests

In India, millions of farmers and their allies are protesting new laws they say will benefit large agribusiness at the expense of small family farmers. The protesters have shut down major roads across the country and set up makeshift camps in New Delhi, complete with generators, laundry service and libraries, paralyzing the capital city.

In response, the government is cracking down on climate activists who have joined the farmer-led protests, which have been escalating since November.

Last month, on Feb. 13, authorities jailed 22-year-old Disha Ravi, who started an Indian chapter of Greta Thunberg’s Fridays For Future network, which has inspired millions of schoolchildren around the world to strike in support of action on climate change. 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-03-05/india-cracks-down-climate-activists-supporting-farmer-protests

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

First you take outlier positions and apparently want to present them as a consensus.

I didn't say anything of the sort. You just made that up.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I didn't say anything of the sort. You just made that up.

Well, then, why did you cite them? Their predictions lie clearly outside the mainstream.

The denialists who got and are still getting thing wrong, are leading and respected figures in the denialist community.

And once again, when I point out that an assertion of yours is false, you just move on to the next thing leaving a trail of exploded falsehoods in your wake.

Things are not fine in the Arctic.  Not fine at all.

[RickBradford]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, then, why did you cite them? Their predictions lie clearly outside the mainstream.

You were babbling about false predictions, so I provided some. I never used or even suggested the word "consensus".

 

You should stop making stuff up and attributing it to other posters.

[BritManToo]

On 3/26/2021 at 6:56 PM, placeholder said:

What did it cost to install? Do you have A/C?

I paid 20,000bht for the DIY install, this months electricity bill 400bht.

Payback time for the equipment is under 4 years.

In Thailand you'd be silly not to have a few panels.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

You were babbling about false predictions, so I provided some. I never used or even suggested the word "consensus".

 

You should stop making stuff up and attributing it to other posters.

And since you have no substantive response to my point about leading figures in the denialist camp getting it wrong repeatedly  you call it  " babbling". If I were to call what you've produced here as babbling, that would be false. There's nothing random about the falsehoods you have repeatedly produced here. It's clear that they even the results of a dishonest intent.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I paid 20,000bht for the DIY install, this months electricity bill 400bht.

Payback time for the equipment is under 4 years.

In Thailand you'd be silly not to have a few panels.

Do you know how many kwh it can produce?

[BritManToo]

Just now, placeholder said:

And since you have no substantive response to my point about leading figures in the denialist camp getting it wrong repeatedly  you call it  " babbling". If I were to call what you've produced here as babbling, that would be false. There's nothing random about the falsehoods you have repeatedly produced here. It's clear that they even the results of a dishonest intent.

Climate change alarmist is pure fantasy.

Let me know when one of their disaster predictions come true, and I'll think about my stance again.

So far all their 'disaster' predictions have failed to come true.

The glaciers haven't all melted, the  poles still have ice, New York isn't underwater,  no populated islands have sunk, etc.

[BritManToo]

Just now, placeholder said:

Do you know how many kwh it can produce?

They average a total of just under 5 a day.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Climate change alarmist is pure fantasy.

Let me know when one of their disaster predictions come true, and I'll think about my stance again.

So far all their 'disaster' predictions have failed to come true.

The glaciers haven't all melted, the  poles still have ice, New York isn't underwater,  no populated islands have sunk, etc.

So when it's too late you want to be informed.

[placeholder]

Direct Observations by NASA Confirm that Humans are Throwing Earth’s Energy Budget off Balance

https://scitechdaily.com/direct-observations-by-nasa-confirm-that-humans-are-throwing-earths-energy-budget-off-balance

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Climate change alarmist is pure fantasy.

Let me know when one of their disaster predictions come true, and I'll think about my stance again.

So far all their 'disaster' predictions have failed to come true.

The glaciers haven't all melted, the  poles still have ice, New York isn't underwater,  no populated islands have sunk, etc.

This is like saying that I've stopped eating, I'm still alive, so you're just being an alarmist if you say fasting will eventually kill me.

The predictions are coming true, It's just the caricatures of their predictions that aren't coming true.  The glaciers are melting, the poles are losing ice, the sea level is rising, coastlines and island are facing increasing inundation etc.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They average a total of just under 5 a day.

Thanks.,

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So when it's too late you want to be informed.

Time was, when people ran around wailing "The End is Nigh", we very gently took them away, sat them down in rooms with soft walls and removed any sharp implements from the space.

 

Now we encourage them to address the United Nations and the European Parliament with their nonsense.

 

With experts like Bob Geldof, Prince Charles and Greta Thunberg telling us how to run the planet before we go extinct, what could possibly go wrong with the Great Green Experiment?

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Time was, when people ran around wailing "The End is Nigh", we very gently took them away, sat them down in rooms with soft walls and removed any sharp implements from the space.

 

Now we encourage them to address the United Nations and the European Parliament with their nonsense.

 

With experts like Bob Geldof, Prince Charles and Greta Thunberg telling us how to run the planet before we go extinct, what could possibly go wrong with the Great Green Experiment?

Here you go again. Same old misdirection. It's not what Bob Geldof, Prince Charles or Greta Thunberg are saying that counts. 

It's what these people are saying that matters:

Global Warming of 1.5 ºC

Understanding the impacts of 1.5°C global warming above pre-industrial levels and related global emission pathways in the context of strengthening the response to the threat of climate change, sustainable development and efforts to eradicate poverty.

https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

[RickBradford]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Same old misdirection

The misdirection is not mine.

 

The views of Bob Geldof, Prince Charles, Greta Thunberg and similar uninformed and ignorant nimrods garner hundreds of times the publicity in the mainstream media that the IPCC reports do. And celebrity noise, no matter how infantile, has a considerable influence.

 

Regrettably, this relentless media hype is also what influences the equally uninformed minds of the average politician, so what the IPCC says, no matter how well researched it may be, is largely irrelevant.

[Sujo]

Thank you placeholder for providing scientific studies to prove your points.

 

Thank you deniers for proving his points.

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, RickBradford said:

The misdirection is not mine.

 

The views of Bob Geldof, Prince Charles, Greta Thunberg and similar uninformed and ignorant nimrods garner hundreds of times the publicity in the mainstream media that the IPCC reports do. And celebrity noise, no matter how infantile, has a considerable influence.

 

Regrettably, this relentless media hype is also what influences the equally uninformed minds of the average politician, so what the IPCC says, no matter how well researched it may be, is largely irrelevant.

The difference is the celebrities are following the science. Therefore their noise is not infantile, in contrast to uninformed comments like yours commenting on the celebrities rather than the scientific consensus. 

[RickBradford]

12 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The difference is the celebrities are following the science.

Bob Geldof stated several years ago that "all humans will die before 2030" due to the ravages of climate change.

 

Is that "following the science", in your opinion?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, RickBradford said:

Bob Geldof stated several years ago that "all humans will die before 2030" due to the ravages of climate change.

 

Is that "following the science", in your opinion?

Still harping on celebrities. Does this mean that you think that the warnings of the IPCC, in contrast to those of celebrities, should be taken seriously and acted upon?

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Bob Geldof stated several years ago that "all humans will die before 2030" due to the ravages of climate change.

 

Is that "following the science", in your opinion?

Their job is calling attention to the problem, and with every post here you're confirming they're doing a good job.

Now listen to science for the content.

[RickBradford]

 

9 hours ago, stevenl said:

Their job is calling attention to the problem, and with every post here you're confirming they're doing a good job.

What they are actually doing is making themselves look ridiculous, and damaging the credibility of attempts to "fix" the climate with their sanctimonious self-righteous hypocrisy.

 

On that, they are admittedly doing a good job, as witness the inadequate commitments of governments worldwide to do anything substantive on climate.