Health insurance age bracket increase 60-64 Ouch !!!

[4MyEgo]

I just received notice from the health care provider that I used over the last 3 years, and they advised me that my policy is going to increase due to "age/or medical market trend".

 

My policy is to increase from 70,000 baht per annum to 112,000 baht per annum, suffice to say that's about a 60% hike, so take it or leave would be my choice.

 

I did decline their offer on the spot, not that I can't afford it, and will be sending an email to my broker next to see if there is an alternative health care provider, or I might just have to start self insuring once again, however would prefer not too.

 

Seriously a 60% increase with no claims is in my opinion nothing short of extortion, I mean how can they justify such an increase, one glove doesn't fit all, and they should look at each individuals current condition/any previous claims, but I suppose the one glove fits all for them is better suited as it would be a numbers game, e.g. win some, lose some and they reduce the risk if they lose a few, that said, this age thing should be grounds for discrimination.....lol.

 

Rant over.

Edited March 22, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[rumak]

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

 

I suppose it gave me some comfort for the time it lasted, e.g. knowing I was insured, oh well, no point in crying over spoilt milk as they say.

 

If the broker can't find an alternative insurer for a reasonable amount then I am banking on saving 7 years worth of the new annual amount, i.e. around 800,000 baht, because after that, I intend on returning to my home country to collect the lottery (pension).....and have free Medical cover.

Edited March 22, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[rumak]

Anyone healthy and 40 years old (or less).   Start putting just HALF the amount of the average policy into a mutual fund or some form of investment.   Each year continue at the same rate as the "new price".

Eat well and exercise .   Do not walk into the street drunk.   I guarantee 80 % of you will have a nice nest egg when you are in your 60's.      (if someone doesn't snatch it   ????

[rumak]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

I intend on returning to my home country to collect the lottery (pension).....and have free Medical cover.

 

which country ?         I guess i could consider going to Canada as the father of a Canadian resident.    brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[scubascuba3]

insurance often gives false peace of mind because if you claim you may have issues, plus it will keep going up to the point it's unaffordable to many. Many have rubbish cover but gives them peace of mind, ignorance is bliss and all that.l

 

 

[Phuketshrew]

It need not be that expensive - I am in the same age bracket and paid around 25K. Just cut out the things you don't need. I opted not to have OPD and chose a small excess.

Try contacting Loic at Pacific Cross. No nonsense and won't try and sell you what you don't want/need. [email protected] 

[OneMoreFarang]

44 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Seriously a 60% increase with no claims is in my opinion nothing short of extortion, I mean how can they justify such an increase, one glove doesn't fit all, and they should look at each individuals current condition/any previous claims,

Really?

Do you really expect that an insurance makes individual priced for each customer? Think again!

 

Insurance is a number game. Males 50 years old cost in average x per year, 60 year old cost in average amount y. And maybe that amount y is 50 % higher than x. And obviously the insurance company takes the risk and has to make a profit. Nothing of that should surprise anybody.

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

 

Honestly, I totally understand you and agree with you. 

 

I had been paying health insurance for many years, and the one year that I decided to self insure (because I had never made a claim yet every year paying for insurance), guess what.... I brutally messed up my right hand (4th and 5th metacarpal open fracture) and had to pay the surgery back in China all by myself. Close to 14,000 USD to place a metal plate in each bone and reconstruct the hand so as to have the biggest chances of making a full recovery..., which would have been covered by the insurance had I paid for it. Now that's bad luck. 

 

As for OP, you should ditch that company, and consult with several (not just one) brokers. I am sure they will be able to find something suitable for you and much cheaper than that.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by ctxa

[ukrules]

Unless you've got a few million spare dollars in the bank you're not really self insuring in any meaningful way are you

 

 

[Sheryl]

Re the fact that you had no claims in 3 years:

 

You can't have it both ways regarding rate increases:

 

Either an insurer considers claims history, in which case you are subject to individually base increases on top of age-related ones, which can quickly price you out if you have the misfortune to develop a chronic health condition, and to my mind completely undermines the whole point of health insurance

 

OR

 

Rates are "community rated" and not individually based. In which case increases are the same for everyone in the same age bracket.

 

At this particular moment in time, since you had no major illnesses or accidents, you'd be doing better under the first option than the second but there is nothing to say the same would be true next year, it's a roll of the dice.

 

All that said - the magnitude of the increase you report is quite large and unusual. Possibly this particular insurer has a comparatively small pool of insured persons and/or a disproportionate number of ones living in countries where health care costs have risen sharply.

 

You can certainly ask your broker about less expensive options. BUT I recommend against switching to a non-community rated plan.

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Unless you've got a few million spare dollars in the bank you're not really self insuring in any meaningful way are you

 

 

 

Change that to a few million baht, and I'd agree fully. it doesn't take a few million dollars to self insure in Thailand. Can be done with 3-5 million baht (though you need a contingency plan for how to replenish this amount if/when spent, or else a plan to repatriate at that point).

 

And indeed vast majority of supposedly "self insured" people here are not insured, period. Most in my experience do not even have separate funds put aside for medical costs let alone adequate funds.

 

People seem to think deciding to not have insurance, with no special savings or plan in place other than to just hope nothing happens or that it is easily affordable if it does, constitutes being "self insured". It does not. It constitutes being uninsured.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I suppose it gave me some comfort for the time it lasted, e.g. knowing I was insured, oh well, no point in crying over spoilt milk as they say.

 

If the broker can't find an alternative insurer for a reasonable amount then I am banking on saving 7 years worth of the new annual amount, i.e. around 800,000 baht, because after that, I intend on returning to my home country to collect the lottery (pension).....and have free Medical cover.

I never had any insurance here, except now when I had to get Thai insurance covering covid to enter the country.

My Australian travel insurance pre-covid times had unlimited medical coverage and most importantly evacuation cover. Thai medical insurance is not going to evacuate me to Australia.

It is cheaper to fly 2 times per year to Oz and get travel insurance than to insure here. The travel insurance covers you in other countries and I used to travel a lot pre-covid.

[rumak]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

People seem to think deciding to not have insurance, with no special savings or plan in place other than to just hope nothing happens or that it is easily affordable if it does, constitutes being "self insured". It does not. It constitutes being uninsured.

Which people are you referring to ?    references please

 

As for what people seem to think...... i would go with them thinking that they can eat all kinds of junk,   do little exercise,   and be overweight or obese which is really the main cause of diseases and ill health in the world .     Source: https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html#:~:text=Obesity is serious because it,and some types of cancer

 

it is many of these same people that seem to think that being insured will save the day.

I tend to think that staying healthy will PREVENT  serious illness ........ and so far at 70 i have been proven correct .   It works for me ,  what a great feeling not to have to pop pills every day.

Edited March 22, 2021 by rumak

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, rumak said:

it is many of these same people that seem to think that being insured will save the day.

I tend to think that staying healthy will PREVENT  serious illness ........ and so far at 70 i have been proven correct .   It works for me ,  what a great feeling not to have to pop pills every day.

It won't stop you catching Covid 19.

[Airalee]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

My policy is to increase from 70,000 baht per annum to 112,000 baht per annum

What coverage limits and deductibles?

[Airalee]

42 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

It won't stop you catching Covid 19.

It will make the difference between having the sniffles (or no symptoms at all) vs knocking on deaths door if you’re a sedentary, obese, alcoholic who can’t stop stuffing their pie hole.

[ctxa]

 

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Change that to a few million baht, and I'd agree fully. it doesn't take a few million dollars to self insure in Thailand. Can be done with 3-5 million baht (though you need a contingency plan for how to replenish this amount if/when spent, or else a plan to repatriate at that point).

 

I decided to self insure back in China, having more money than it is needed to self insure, for sure. Yet trust me, I regretted it a lot when I broke my hand and had to fork out close to 15k USD for a surgery, not like I couldn't afford it..... But I realized that saying goodbye to 15k USD for instead avoiding to pay 500 USD / year, was a mistake only a fool would have made. And so I felt like a fool 15K USD lighter ????

 

My personal advice, even if you have the funds, don't self insure. Because everything is good, until something big comes up and then you feel like a fool ????

 

 

[ding]

4 hours ago, rumak said:

Which people are you referring to ?    references please

 

As for what people seem to think...... i would go with them thinking that they can eat all kinds of junk,   do little exercise,   and be overweight or obese which is really the main cause of diseases and ill health in the world .     Source: https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html#:~:text=Obesity is serious because it,and some types of cancer

 

it is many of these same people that seem to think that being insured will save the day.

I tend to think that staying healthy will PREVENT  serious illness ........ and so far at 70 i have been proven correct .   It works for me ,  what a great feeling not to have to pop pills every day.

Good plan, congrats! ... and it's working for you if you're not on medication!

My private insurance in the US will cover the pocket of my choice that's carrying my billfold. LOL

My COBRA estimate was $1,200-$1,400.

Deductible and copays render it virtually useless for those of us not carrying chronic health issues.

My health care plan includes getting out of the states ASAP and into Thailand. where I'll take Sheryl's advice and get reasonable insurance.

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, Phuketshrew said:

It need not be that expensive - I am in the same age bracket and paid around 25K. Just cut out the things you don't need. I opted not to have OPD and chose a small excess.

Try contacting Loic at Pacific Cross. No nonsense and won't try and sell you what you don't want/need. [email protected] 

your cover is probably inadequate at that premium

[simon43]

5 hours ago, Chris.B said:

It won't stop you catching Covid 19.

 

However, being healthy and fit should mean that his immune system is strong, thus able to tackle the virus with hopefully no serious health issues.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

Do you really expect that an insurance makes individual priced for each customer? Think again!

 

Insurance is a number game. Males 50 years old cost in average x per year, 60 year old cost in average amount y. And maybe that amount y is 50 % higher than x. And obviously the insurance company takes the risk and has to make a profit. Nothing of that should surprise anybody.

 

Why not.

 

If you do your research you will find that it's the younger ones, e.g. age brackets 50-54 and 54-59 and 60-64 which are subsidising the most claims which are for those in the higher age brackets who make claims, e.g. 85 plus, then 74-85 and then 65-74.

 

Males 60 year up to 64 years are the ones who get the sharpest increases, that is why most drop off paying for their premiums when they get hit with a whopping 60% increase when it's time to renew their policy when they reach 60 years of age.

 

Not everyone is in the same condition and it should be done like car insurance companies do, i.e. no claim, annual bonus reduction, e.g. 10% up to 60% the latter being no claims for 6 years, now that is not saying that the insurance policy doesn't also increase with inflation etc.

 

The simplest way would be to leave the premium as it is, and or increase it a little, e.g. 10% per annum instead of going for the jugular, and increase the policy sharply for those that have made claims, after all, they are the ones putting pressure on the system and that is why we have private health cover, suffice to say for those of us in good health and not making claims, get the raw end of the deal if we don't renew and take the 60% increase up the rear, so to speak.

 

Yes they are in business to make money, but why penalise those who don't put pressure on the system and are in good health ?

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, gearbox said:

I never had any insurance here, except now when I had to get Thai insurance covering covid to enter the country.

My Australian travel insurance pre-covid times had unlimited medical coverage and most importantly evacuation cover. Thai medical insurance is not going to evacuate me to Australia.

It is cheaper to fly 2 times per year to Oz and get travel insurance than to insure here. The travel insurance covers you in other countries and I used to travel a lot pre-covid.

 

The only problem with travel insurance cover is that they are limited in what they pay and for how long they pay for, that and they do expire after a certain period.

 

Travel insurance is good for limited travel only and doesn't cover those of us who are non-residents, e.g. living out of their homeland for more than 6 months.

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, rumak said:

 

which country ?         I guess i could consider going to Canada as the father of a Canadian resident.    brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

Australia, but then I would have to pay through the nose to live there.

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Airalee said:

What coverage limits and deductibles?

 

Emergency and or elective surgery cover up to 1.2 mil USD, no deductibles, no outpatient.

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, ctxa said:

But I realized that saying goodbye to 15k USD for instead avoiding to pay 500 USD / year, was a mistake only a fool would have made. And so I felt like a fool 15K USD lighter ????

 

Was that a typo, $500 USD, if that's the case, that was a grave mistake on your path, the increased amount went up from $2325 USD to $3,690 USD, suffice to say that is for emergency and elective surgery cover up to 1.2 mil USD.

 

The above said, the email went to the broker last night to seek an alternative provider, as Sheryl said insurance cover her is paramount and even with a fair chunk of money in shares and the bank, cover for me is the preferred, it's all about weighing up the risks, i.e. your money or their money when it's time to make a claim, now that claim could be in the millions of baht or it could be in the hundreds of thousands of baht, or there might not be a claim, it's about rolling the dice and having cover, in other words you pay from your pocket or theirs if there is a claim.

 

I agree with Shery 110% that most expats here don't have cover and hope nothing happens, they say they self insure but most live day by day on their pensions, we age, we need hospitalisation and if the dice rolls their way, they will be treated accordingly, public hospital vs private hospital again, to me it's about choice and you get what you pay for.

 

I also agree the increase of 60% is out of line, hence the reason I am not going with it, as crazy as it sounds, it's only an additional 115 baht per day, on top of the amount I was already paying, suffice to say for what the policy was covering for me, with no outpatient and only being for emergency or elective surgery, I believe the broker can do better, however it might not cover my pre-existing condition, but I can live with that, knowing that I will have to pa for anything that does relate to that.

 

The above said, we all need health insurance cover IMO, but affordable coverage, not extortion coverage.

[KarenBravo]

I wonder whether all these people that claim that they are "self-insured" and have saved loads of money over the years by doing this, have put these savings into a separate bank account to meet future health costs?

More likely that they have already spent it and will take a huge hit to their pocket when that health emergency arrives...............and it will.

 

It certainly isn't a bad thing to keep ones self fit and active as one ages, but, there are so many life-threatening conditions that can affect you, regardless of fitness. Cancer, embolisms and internal bleeding are just a few of them.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Emergency and or elective surgery cover up to 1.2 mil USD, no deductibles, no outpatient.

Usually having a 40k baht deductible will save you 20% off premium, take out outpatient and that's another 20%

[tonray]

12 hours ago, rumak said:

Eat well and exercise .   Do not walk into the street drunk.

You're asking a lot here....

[4MyEgo]

42 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Usually having a 40k baht deductible will save you 20% off premium, take out outpatient and that's another 20%

 

Something to consider for any future policy that the broker comes up with, the previous provider didn't have any deductibles, i.e. it covered you for what it did and would pay out up to what it would, so no choice there.

 

The above said, I like the idea of deductibles to reduce the policy cost.