EU blames AstraZeneca as vaccine battle with UK deepens

[cocoonclub]

21 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Do I have to repeat this again?  It would require a change in the law for the UK to either block or restrict exports from the UK.  They probably could do so under the current emergency rules but such legislation could and I have no doubt would, be tested in the courts.  In the UK the government is not above the law and would have to comply with a court's decision.  Clearly I cannot say what the court's would decide but I think the state would find it very difficult to justify such action.

So you’re saying that the Netherlands, for example, would be acting against Dutch laws if they restricted exports? Or what’s your problem exactly? 
 

  

[KhaoYai]

5 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

So you’re saying that the Netherlands, for example, would be acting against Dutch laws if they restricted exports? Or what’s your problem exactly? 

I have no idea what Dutch law is regarding exports but I'm pretty sure its not Dutch law - on such matters I suspect its actually EU law - I know nothing of that either.

 

Problem?  I don't have a problem, I've had my vaccine thanks.

[cocoonclub]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have no idea what Dutch law is regarding exports but I'm pretty sure its not Dutch law - on such matters I suspect its actually EU law - I know nothing of that either.

 

Problem?  I don't have a problem, I've had my vaccine thanks.

So actually there’s no issue as you admit, plus you wouldn’t even know if there was (because you have no idea of Dutch laws, no ideas of EU laws, and aren’t even sure under whose jurisdiction it would fall), yet you keep banging on about what exactly? 
 

 

[KhaoYai]

15 minutes ago, cocoonclub said:

So actually there’s no issue as you admit, plus you wouldn’t even know if there was (because you have no idea of Dutch laws, no ideas of EU laws, and aren’t even sure under whose jurisdiction it would fall), yet you keep banging on about what exactly? 

As usual I have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

I don't 'bang on' about anything - I reply to other poster's comments.  I don't need to know EU laws or any other country's other than the UK's for that matter.  The current discussion, the one I've been commenting on, is in relation to a member claiming the UK would do the same as the EU if the tables were turned.

 

Perhaps your understanding of English isn't so good? I think its quite clear what I've been discussing - the clue is in the quotes.

Edited March 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[Hi from France]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Britain on Monday demanded the European Union

 

intriguing  :

• India cancelled the UK's order and the UK does not "demand" anything from them
• the US is sitting on a 30 millions doses stockpile of AZ vaccines, that is not even approved for use in the USA and it's just allright for the UK
• the EU has delivered 21 million doses to the UK .... and the UK "demands"

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Do I have to repeat this again?  It would require a change in the law for the UK to either block or restrict exports from the UK.  

sure: you know about the Internal Market Bill, don't you ?

[candide]

42 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

intriguing  :

• India cancelled the UK's order and the UK does not "demand" anything from them
• the US is sitting on a 30 millions doses stockpile of AZ vaccines, that is not even approved for use in the USA and it's just allright for the UK
• the EU has delivered 21 million doses to the UK .... and the UK "demands"

Intriguing enough too: 

The argument was that the reason for AZ cutting deliveries was that they should be supplied by plants in the EU, and the plant in Belgium had yield problems, and not in the UK (UK supply chain, etc...).

But AZ also had two plants in the EU (Netherlands and Germany) which were working quite well and were supplying UK. Actually, these two EU plants have been the first to supply UK last year, before UK plants were ready.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19042726.oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-made/

 

Interestingly enough, AZ did not ask for EU approval of these two plants showing a proven record of quality production, until a few days ago...... ????

[vinny41]

13 hours ago, Hi from France said:

not a failure, but instead of being naive and producing for the world, the EU should have done the same as the UK and the USA and demand to be served first and export zero until we are protected. The 40 millions doses we exported (half of them to the UK) are causing problems

 

I find that sad, but here we are.  Being the only ones to act cooperatively now is just being idiots. 

 

 

now I heard that the EU will soon produce more vaccines than the USA and we'll be the first producers in the world (need to source that)

I think you will find that the EU doesn't produce any vaccine's  private company's based currently based in the EU that produce the vaccine, I would hazzard a guess in a couple of years time the only  private company's based in the EU will all be based in Germany, others will have moved to Countries where politicians don't interfere with how they run their business, who they sell to, who they can't

Pfizer preferred choice for manufacturing location was USA but Biotech and the German Government dangled a carrot of $445 in front of them

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/biontech-curevac-bag-745m-german-funding-for-covid-19-vaccine-hopefuls

 

I would imagine various Government's worldwide are dangling incentive deals in front of these companies, low tax rates, business zone whatever it takes

[drenddy]

Too much drama for a vaccine, which likely will be made voluntarly and, given the risk for developing a very rare blood clotting disorder, it will be rejected by many people.Including me, though I got my first AZ jab 3 weeks ago. 

 

I am not a statistician nor a doctor, but an incidence of 1 case of CVST per 25000(Norway) jabs is very high. 

 

In other words, an initial study of german and austrian doctors about 9 cases of CVST is available. 

Still not peer reviewed yet. 

 

Very interesting, but equally scary stuff. 

 

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-362354/v1

 

Even if the risk is minimal, I will not take a vaccine, then go home with doctor's words in my mind : "just be aware of any unusual symptoms the next 2-3 weeks"

 

No way, José. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by drenddy

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

sure: you know about the Internal Market Bill, don't you ?

No but I'm sure you will enlighten me.

 

Actually, don't bother.  Neither of us is going to change our minds on this and its getting tiring going around in circles.

Edited March 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, drenddy said:

Even if the risk is minimal, I will not take a vaccine, then go home with doctor's words in my mind : "just be aware of any unusual symptoms the next 2-3 weeks"

 

No way, José. 

If you're in Thailand and want to leave and come back or if you're wanting to visit Thailand in the foreseeable future, you're going to find things more difficult and more expensive then.

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Actually, don't bother.  

Riddle

 

How do you call a country why has 17 deaths / day and "demands" that we ship the vaccines we produce (while we have 3000+ deaths every day in Europe). 

 

Given that you take our vaccines while giving nothing in return, I'm tempted to use the word "parasite". 

 

 

 

Anyway "demand" what you want, but in the meantime I think you'd better rely on you ex-colony, India or your "special relationship" the USA they have the 30 million doses you need stored and unused.

 

And of course use your own production which you never cared to share anyway. 

 

. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Hi from France

[david555]

On 3/28/2021 at 4:34 PM, CG1 Blue said:

You must have a different mindset in France then. Our government wouldn't stop a private company fulfilling it's contractual obligations to the bloc. State control isn't so popular here. 

 

So.... i didn't had ton wat longtime to  present you the proper reply , that"Britain wouldn't stop private companies "..... ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1416355/Brexit-news-latest-EU-financial-services-london-firms-brexit-andrew-bailey-equivalence

Brexit Britain hits back at EU plot to poach UK financial firms - Bank of England steps in
BREXIT Britain has hit back at the EU's attempts to poach UK financial firms to the continent by forcing companies to seek approval of the Bank of England before relocating.

By BILL MCLOUGHLIN
PUBLISHED: 12:20, Mon, Mar 29, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:12, Mon, Mar 29, 2021

Due to the number of firms which have left the UK to relocate to the EU, the Bank of England has drawn up restrictions in what was described as regulatory "over reach" by one banker. With the EU not granting UK firms equivalence, some companies have now relocated to financial capitals on the continent. However, the Bank of England must now be notified before doing so in order to restrict the number of firms that are looking to leave Britain.

 

more...

Edited March 29, 2021 by david555

[CG1 Blue]

39 minutes ago, david555 said:

So.... i didn't had ton wat longtime to  present you the proper reply , that"Britain wouldn't stop private companies "..... ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1416355/Brexit-news-latest-EU-financial-services-london-firms-brexit-andrew-bailey-equivalence

Brexit Britain hits back at EU plot to poach UK financial firms - Bank of England steps in
BREXIT Britain has hit back at the EU's attempts to poach UK financial firms to the continent by forcing companies to seek approval of the Bank of England before relocating.

By BILL MCLOUGHLIN
PUBLISHED: 12:20, Mon, Mar 29, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:12, Mon, Mar 29, 2021

Due to the number of firms which have left the UK to relocate to the EU, the Bank of England has drawn up restrictions in what was described as regulatory "over reach" by one banker. With the EU not granting UK firms equivalence, some companies have now relocated to financial capitals on the continent. However, the Bank of England must now be notified before doing so in order to restrict the number of firms that are looking to leave Britain.

 

more...

 

I see - more dirty tricks from the EU: 

 

Documents have claimed to show the EU Commission pressuring companies to clear derivatives in the EU instead of the UK.

Commenting on the issue in front of a select committee hearing, Mr Bailey said: "Frankly, it would be a serious escalation of the issue. “I’m not going to obviously say how the government would react to that because that’s for the government to think about and we will work very closely with them on this but it would be a very serious escalation in my view of the issue."

 

Interesting, but how is this relevant to what I said?  

 

 

[david555]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

I see - more dirty tricks from the EU: 

 

Documents have claimed to show the EU Commission pressuring companies to clear derivatives in the EU instead of the UK.

Commenting on the issue in front of a select committee hearing, Mr Bailey said: "Frankly, it would be a serious escalation of the issue. “I’m not going to obviously say how the government would react to that because that’s for the government to think about and we will work very closely with them on this but it would be a very serious escalation in my view of the issue."

 

Interesting, but how is this relevant to what I said?  

 

 

Your line that Britain would not interfere in private companys .... was your line before .....

 

Hiding away from your own statement now  ?

[david555]

Oh dear oh dear .!..now Canada ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1416527/AstraZeneca-vaccine-suspended-Canada-under-55-safety-fears-concerns-Covid-latest

 

Canada halts use of AstraZeneca vaccine for people under-55 over safety fears

 

CANADA is set to pause its use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab over safety concerns, according to reports.

By LUKE HAWKER

18:23, Mon, Mar 29, 2021 | UPDATED: 18:50, Mon, Mar 29, 2021

Edited March 29, 2021 by david555

[candide]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

Oh dear oh dear .!..now Canada ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1416527/AstraZeneca-vaccine-suspended-Canada-under-55-safety-fears-concerns-Covid-latest

Another example of childish jealousy about brexited UK's success! BTW, if they don't like it, they could stop importing AZ vaccine from the EU! ????

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Riddle

 

How do you call a country why has 17 deaths / day and "demands" that we ship the vaccines we produce (while we have 3000+ deaths every day in Europe). 

 

Given that you take our vaccines while giving nothing in return, I'm tempted to use the word "parasite". 

 

 

 

Anyway "demand" what you want, but in the meantime I think you'd better rely on you ex-colony, India or your "special relationship" the USA they have the 30 million doses you need stored and unused.

 

And of course use your own production which you never cared to share anyway. 

 

. 

 

 

EU chiefs fail to secure new vaccine supply deal - 'It's rebounding on them!'

EU BOSSES have failed to strike vaccine deal with drug giant Novavax in a further blow to the bloc's attempts to kickstart its stalled roll-out.

Insiders said the US biotech company was delaying signing a contract with the EU over production concerns. But Brussels critics suggested the EU's ongoing row with Anglo-Swedish pharma group AstraZeneca had led to the cautious approach from Novavax executives.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1416140/eu-vaccine-crisis-novavax-jab-deal-astrazeneca-row-coronavirus-pandemic-covid19-third-wave

[drenddy]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Another example of childish jealousy about brexited UK's success! BTW, if they don't like it, they could stop importing AZ vaccine from the EU! ????

 

It has nothing to do with Brexit/UK's succes.

 

Furthermore, I am not aware, whether UK has provided data about serious side effects of AZ vaccine for under 55 age group?Correct me, if I am wrong, but AZ vaccine has mainly been given to older population in UK?

 

Nobody denies that benefits outweigh risks and the risk of CVST(or VIPIT, how they wish to call it) are minimal, but there is a lot of smoke here....

[candide]

1 minute ago, drenddy said:

 

It has nothing to do with Brexit/UK's succes.

 

Furthermore, I am not aware, whether UK has provided data about serious side effects of AZ vaccine for under 55 age group?Correct me, if I am wrong, but AZ vaccine has mainly been given to older population in UK?

 

Nobody denies that benefits outweigh risks and the risk of CVST(or VIPIT, how they wish to call it) are minimal, but there is a lot of smoke here....

I was joking by caricaturing comments made by other posters about the EU. Hence the ????!

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

So.... i didn't had ton wat longtime to  present you the proper reply , that"Britain wouldn't stop private companies "..... ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1416355/Brexit-news-latest-EU-financial-services-london-firms-brexit-andrew-bailey-equivalence

Brexit Britain hits back at EU plot to poach UK financial firms - Bank of England steps in
BREXIT Britain has hit back at the EU's attempts to poach UK financial firms to the continent by forcing companies to seek approval of the Bank of England before relocating.

By BILL MCLOUGHLIN
PUBLISHED: 12:20, Mon, Mar 29, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:12, Mon, Mar 29, 2021

Due to the number of firms which have left the UK to relocate to the EU, the Bank of England has drawn up restrictions in what was described as regulatory "over reach" by one banker. With the EU not granting UK firms equivalence, some companies have now relocated to financial capitals on the continent. However, the Bank of England must now be notified before doing so in order to restrict the number of firms that are looking to leave Britain.

 

more...

I'd say the contribution is interesting (it'd be better not to have a tabloid for a main source, though), but should be transferred to the "brexit/city of London" thread, preferably before the moderation wipes it out.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Hi from France

[Monokuro]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Given that you take our vaccines while giving nothing in return, I'm tempted to use the word "parasite". 

They aren't your vaccines, the EU don't own AZ. 

 

As keeps being pointed out, they are a private company following contracts they signed with various clients.

 

Why would the AZ plant in the UK send vaccines to the EU when they are still fulfilling their first client's (ie the UK) order.

 

It's unfortunate the situation that is occurring in the EU, but the contracts signed were clear.

 

Also, the only reason the UK has lower infections now is due to the vaccine program, if their supply was now all blocked, it stands to reason that the deaths and hospitalization would increase again.

 

Of course emotionally everyone believes their country deserves the vaccine first, but that's why contracts exist, so emotion can't come into play and this type of situation doesn't occur.

 

Again, I am truly sorry that your country is being hit by another wave, but that doesn't change the signed deals that the UK has with AZ ????

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

EU chiefs fail to secure new vaccine supply deal - 'It's rebounding on them!'

I'm not sure this is a real issue

 

@vinny41 I supposed you had a look a the list of orders on the EU page I shared above? With all these orders already passed can you confirm an additional one makes any difference to start with in an orderbook stuffed until 2022? Looking it up in the Guardian I do not see any coverage of the issue.

 

any chance it's just a swallow provocation to flatter the readership of this tabloid?

 

I remember you lately posted dubious data from a fringe brexiteer group.

[Hi from France]

9 minutes ago, Monokuro said:

Again, I am truly sorry that your country is being hit by another wave, but that doesn't change the signed deals that the UK has with AZ ????

I have no doubt you're a decent person, but I'm just making a point about what we currently think of the British government declaration

 

quote

Quote

demanding the European Union

I do not think that in the short term, will be any vaccine coming your way from the EU plants, whatever demands the UK makes.

 

Unless the UK is in a position to blackmail us, I mean. Which remains open for discussion

 

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

EU chiefs fail to secure new vaccine supply deal - 'It's rebounding on them!'

EU BOSSES have failed to strike vaccine deal with drug giant Novavax in a further blow to the bloc's attempts to kickstart its stalled roll-out.

Insiders said the US biotech company was delaying signing a contract with the EU over production concerns. But Brussels critics suggested the EU's ongoing row with Anglo-Swedish pharma group AstraZeneca had led to the cautious approach from Novavax executives.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1416140/eu-vaccine-crisis-novavax-jab-deal-astrazeneca-row-coronavirus-pandemic-covid19-third-wave

Ahem, let's see who said that....Tory MP Andrew Bridgen. ????

 

[adammike]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

Ahem, let's see who said that....Tory MP Andrew Bridgen. ????

 

In the Daily Express!!!

[candide]

1 hour ago, Monokuro said:

They aren't your vaccines, the EU don't own AZ. 

 

As keeps being pointed out, they are a private company following contracts they signed with various clients.

 

Why would the AZ plant in the UK send vaccines to the EU when they are still fulfilling their first client's (ie the UK) order.

 

It's unfortunate the situation that is occurring in the EU, but the contracts signed were clear.

 

Also, the only reason the UK has lower infections now is due to the vaccine program, if their supply was now all blocked, it stands to reason that the deaths and hospitalization would increase again.

 

Of course emotionally everyone believes their country deserves the vaccine first, but that's why contracts exist, so emotion can't come into play and this type of situation doesn't occur.

 

Again, I am truly sorry that your country is being hit by another wave, but that doesn't change the signed deals that the UK has with AZ ????

To make it short: the EU did not sign a "UK first" clause. 

[KhaoYai]

 More than once I've said I'm done with this thread but got sucked back in again - this time there really is no more that can be said so therefore no point in carrying on but to re-cap................

 

Our EU contributors fail to understand that the AZ deals with both the EU and the UK are contracts between a company and its customers.  The EU as a collective has claimed that AZ are treating the Uk more favourably and threatened to block exports of the AZ product from EU production sites to the UK and eslwhere - Italy having already blocked a shipment to Australia.

 

The law in the EU may permit such bans or it may not - I have no idea.  I note that when this issue first arose, the EU were threatening AZ with court action - that seems to have stopped.  Maybe the EU realised that their contract with AZ did in fact allow AZ to deliver to the UK first? Is that why they resorted to export bans - seems very likely to me.

 

All this is set against a background of late approvals, temporary bans and generally bad PR regarding the AZ product by both the EU and senior politicians of EU member states which has created serious vaccine hesitancy amongst EU populations.  So you people who are supporting the EU's stance in this matter could possibly forgive those of us that find the EU's behaviour puzzling.

 

We haven't approved your vaccine yet, oh now we have and we want it delivering today.  Where is our vaccine? Why have you given the UK more favourable supply? We'll take you to court if you don't get our vaccine to us now!

 

Wait a moment, there isn't enough data in your trials for us to give this vaccine to over 65's.............oh, now there is, more deliveries please........now!  If you don't give us what we ordered we'll impose an export ban on your vaccine.

 

Woah, blood clots have been noted in some countries, we're stopping using your vaccine. We don't care what our regulator says, we're stopping it.  Right, you're not listening to us, we're blocking that shipment to Australia.

 

OK, our regulator has viewed the data regarding blood clots and its fine, we are going to start using it again but you still haven't fullfilled our order.

 

And our EU brethren think they are getting harsh treatment?  Give it a rest. Has it not occurred to you that the EU are simply using this issue to deflect the very real criticism of their vacine rollout?  And they are succeeding - they've hooked you in.

 

For the sake of its people, I really hope the EU sorts out its vaccine rollout out as soon as possble but the UK won't accept being blamed for it not going so well at the moment.

 

You can quote me and deny any or all that I've said, ask me stupid questions on things I've already answered or downright deny the EU is at fault.  Instead of burying your head in the sand and blaming the EU, you'd be better directing your criticism towards your governments - in all their guises.

 

I won't be replying to any further posts.

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

And our EU brethren think they are getting harsh treatment?  Give it a rest. Has it not occurred to you that the EU are simply using this issue to deflect the very real criticism of their vacine rollout?

As an ardent remainer, all I can say is, "Thank God we're not in the EU".

[Bkk Brian]

Another string to the bow. Novavax deal agreed to fill and finish 60 million doses in Uk. Commences in May. Just reported BBC