It’s official: Thai govt approves plans to re-open to foreign tourists

[polpott]

Just now, placnx said:

It depends on which vaccine. The Pfizer started with a "validity" of 3 months in the US; now it's found to be still effective at 6 months. We are still learning. The durability of vaccine efficacity is probably not uniform anyway.

Latest info from AZ suggests it will offer a good level of protection for 12 months and possibly up to 2 years. You can't give a definitive answer until an appreciable number of people have been vaccinated for that length of time. Appreciable numbers have been vaccinated with AZ for more than 12 months now (Stage 3 trials).

[placnx]

17 minutes ago, polpott said:

Latest info from AZ suggests it will offer a good level of protection for 12 months and possibly up to 2 years. You can't give a definitive answer until an appreciable number of people have been vaccinated for that length of time. Appreciable numbers have been vaccinated with AZ for more than 12 months now (Stage 3 trials).

Exactly. We also have to see how the vaccines work as new variants appear.

[Jimbo2014]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:53 PM, KhaoYai said:

That information was available from other sources weeks ago - you may not have seen it.

 

You may have misunderstood earlier reports.  It was suspected/hoped but not confirmed that vaccines would 'help' prevent virus transmission.  The CDC only made a media release on 11 a.m. ET, Monday, March 29, 2021 from a study conducted of 3,950 study participants in six states over a 13-week period from December 14, 2020 to March 13, 2021.  This only confirms mRNA vaccines and they assume it applies to all vaccines.  Whether it applies to Sinovac - which seems to be the go to for the toiling masses of Thailand, remains to be seen.  Granular data was not released on the phase 3 trial of Sinovac and there seems to be no later data. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Jimbo2014

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

You may have misunderstood earlier reports. 

No, I didn't misunderstand them.  The CDC??  That's the USA right?  I tend to read (and follow) reports/studies in Europe.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No, I didn't misunderstand them.  The CDC??  That's the USA right?  I tend to read (and follow) reports/studies in Europe.

Just landed in Khao Yai....nothing to do with this thread.....just thought I would let you know.

[gim12]

here is what APPEARS (trying  to find two sites that say the same thing is difficult) is required for a foreigner to visit

1-apply online which means including a copy of your return air ticket, quarantine hotel and post quarantine hotel, bank statement, a copy of your passport, photo etc ....yes,  you must  show a hotel confirmation BEFORE you get your visa, 

 

2-submit the above along with your passport via  the mail to receive your visa

 

3-get a certificate of entry (COE) with a SPECIFIC entry date after you receive your visa, flight cancelled, change of dates? sorry get another COE

 

here are some of the problems with the above, upon arrival I must show all of the above so why is it required to show before arrival? why send a copy of my passport if later I have to send the physical article in? also,  a covid test must be within 72 hours of departure (some sites say arrival) if positive? so sorry lose your hotel reservation fee-cancellation must be before 7 days of arrival

it appears as if they are lurching from one idea to the other and  tacking requirements on as they go, since immigration at the airport does exist it doesnt make any sense to require most of the above, 

[Jimbo2014]

15 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

No, I didn't misunderstand them.  The CDC??  That's the USA right?  I tend to read (and follow) reports/studies in Europe.

I can't find any earlier information from Europe or America validating vaccine protection against infecting others.

[Jimbo2014]

18 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

No, I didn't misunderstand them.  The CDC??  That's the USA right?  I tend to read (and follow) reports/studies in Europe.

 

Im really not sure which news sources you obtained this information from but I have included a list of articles from the past week all noting the need to determine whether vaccines prevent transmission.  I have included one from your EU so you can update correctly.

 

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2021/03/covid-19-vaccine-college-study.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/if-youre-vaccinated-can-you-transmit-covid-19-what-we-know

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/sars-cov-2-transmission-newly-infected-individuals-previous-infection
 

 

[at15]

and what about the thai citizens in phuket who dont want to take an emergency use vaccine? 

Edited April 8, 2021 by at15

[redwood1]

13 hours ago, gim12 said:

here is what APPEARS (trying  to find two sites that say the same thing is difficult) is required for a foreigner to visit

1-apply online which means including a copy of your return air ticket, quarantine hotel and post quarantine hotel, bank statement, a copy of your passport, photo etc ....yes,  you must  show a hotel confirmation BEFORE you get your visa, 

 

2-submit the above along with your passport via  the mail to receive your visa

 

3-get a certificate of entry (COE) with a SPECIFIC entry date after you receive your visa, flight cancelled, change of dates? sorry get another COE

 

here are some of the problems with the above, upon arrival I must show all of the above so why is it required to show before arrival? why send a copy of my passport if later I have to send the physical article in? also,  a covid test must be within 72 hours of departure (some sites say arrival) if positive? so sorry lose your hotel reservation fee-cancellation must be before 7 days of arrival

it appears as if they are lurching from one idea to the other and  tacking requirements on as they go, since immigration at the airport does exist it doesnt make any sense to require most of the above, 

You forgot insurance....

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

m really not sure which news sources you obtained this information from but I have included a list of articles from the past week all noting the need to determine whether vaccines prevent transmission.  I have included one from your EU so you can update correctly.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

 

https://www.gponline.com/one-dose-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-cut-transmission-67/article/1706307

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210204/astrazeneca-vaccine-may-reduce-covid-transmission

 

I could go on copying and pasting but I guess it depends on what you believe.

[kingofthemountain]

With the news in Thailand from today and in the next days

you can forget all these plans about Phuket sand box and so on

we are again entering in times of big troubles and lockdowns

[elliss]

On 3/31/2021 at 8:21 PM, VBF said:

It's also strange how people continually fail to consider the fact that the “clean” vaccinated tourists will have nothing to worry about.

Because......... they've been vaccinated!!!!

 

   Side effects of the vaccine ?.   

 Blood clots , going viral . 

      Take your choice . 

       No refunds ...

 

[VBF]

3 hours ago, elliss said:

 

   Side effects of the vaccine ?.   

 Blood clots , going viral . 

      Take your choice . 

       No refunds ...

 

But that was not the point of my reply to the suggestion that  " vaccinated tourists will be more worried about the “unclean” unvaccinated expats and locals."

 

My reply was that  "the “clean” vaccinated tourists will have nothing to worry about.

Because......... they've been vaccinated!!!!   And therefore associating with unvaccinated people doesn't matter.

 

Your points refer to other issues - the blood clots one has already been analysed and is considered a low enough risk to carry on using AZ 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55302595

 

And I don't understand your other points, tbh.

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information and replies reported and removed.

 

[Jimbo2014]

17 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-confirms-protection-against-severe-disease-hospitalisation-and-death-in-the-primary-analysis-of-phase-iii-trials.html

 

https://www.gponline.com/one-dose-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-cut-transmission-67/article/1706307

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210204/astrazeneca-vaccine-may-reduce-covid-transmission

 

I could go on copying and pasting but I guess it depends on what you believe.

 

You have qualified my point.  None of the articles state the vaccine is a 100% guarantee against transmission.  They all state it reduces transmission and these articles only apply to one of the vaccine variants.  "The COVID-19 vaccine by AstraZeneca and Oxford University seems to substantially reduce transmission of the virus rather than simply prevent infection".  The scientific paper on which they are based is here:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

And it actually makes no reference to a specific transmission study.  This was the journalists interpretation based on effective antibody response and reduced viral load.  Presently it is unknown whether any of the vaccines prevent transmission.  That is why the WHO (not a fan) issued a statement stating that vaccine passports were a bad idea until further information is available.

I hope this helps clear up any misunderstandings you may have.  

[hioctane]

52 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

 

You have qualified my point.  None of the articles state the vaccine is a 100% guarantee against transmission.  They all state it reduces transmission and these articles only apply to one of the vaccine variants.  "The COVID-19 vaccine by AstraZeneca and Oxford University seems to substantially reduce transmission of the virus rather than simply prevent infection".  The scientific paper on which they are based is here:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

And it actually makes no reference to a specific transmission study.  This was the journalists interpretation based on effective antibody response and reduced viral load.  Presently it is unknown whether any of the vaccines prevent transmission.  That is why the WHO (not a fan) issued a statement stating that vaccine passports were a bad idea until further information is available.

I hope this helps clear up any misunderstandings you may have.  

 

US CDC says with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, transmission is reduced up to 90%.

Edited April 9, 2021 by hioctane

[Jimbo2014]

5 hours ago, hioctane said:

 

US CDC says with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, transmission is reduced up to 90%.

Yes if you go back in the thread I noted this in my first comment.  This is news from within the last week.  The ePfizer completely prevented transmission in their study conducted between Feb and March.  WHO and CDC have noted that this does not definitively mean the vaccines prevent transmission but its looking good.

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

You have qualified my point.  None of the articles state the vaccine is a 100% guarantee against transmission.  They all state it reduces transmission and these articles only apply to one of the vaccine variants.  

I don't remember stating that the vaccine is 100% effective against transmission - I know very well that none of them are.  However the AZ vaccine for example, has been stated as being 100% effective at preventing serious illness, hospitalisation and death.

[Jimbo2014]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I don't remember stating that the vaccine is 100% effective against transmission - I know very well that none of them are.  However the AZ vaccine for example, has been stated as being 100% effective at preventing serious illness, hospitalisation and death.

 

Then I may have misinterpreted your statement and we are on the same.  So my original post was in line with the statement above being:  If vaccine passports enable travelers to travel freely avoiding quarantine and Thailand fails to vaccinate its own population, then transmission of the virus from a vaccinated traveler to an unvaccinated local resident is possible.  Therefore, this policy is very risky if Thailand fails to vaccinate its own people first. 

[KhaoYai]

8 minutes ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Then I may have misinterpreted your statement and we are on the same. 

Just to clarify, as I understand it, several vaccines are reported as reducing transmission - to varying degrees.  Without looking back, I believe my original comment was in response to a claim that they had no efficacy in terms of transmission - which I believe I said was now out of date.

[Jimbo2014]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

Just to clarify, as I understand it, several vaccines are reported as reducing transmission - to varying degrees.  Without looking back, I believe my original comment was in response to a claim that they had no efficacy in terms of transmission - which I believe I said was now out of date.

I think you misinterpreted my initial statement - it said it did not prevent transmission - I did not make any statements concerning reduced likelihood, which I fully accept and understand as true ???? 

[Scofield]

Meridien just confirmed the UK quarantine is back to 15 days and not allowed outside the room. 

[hioctane]

6 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

 

Then I may have misinterpreted your statement and we are on the same.  So my original post was in line with the statement above being:  If vaccine passports enable travelers to travel freely avoiding quarantine and Thailand fails to vaccinate its own population, then transmission of the virus from a vaccinated traveler to an unvaccinated local resident is possible.  Therefore, this policy is very risky if Thailand fails to vaccinate its own people first. 

If the vaccinated are tested negative before they enter, then the odds of infecting the unvaccinated are even lower when combined with reduced transmission rates.

Besides, they are not allowing the vaccinated to enter quarantine free until the Thai people are vaccinated 70% (Phase 2 Phuket plan).

 

2 hours ago, Scofield said:

Meridien just confirmed the UK quarantine is back to 15 days and not allowed outside the room. 

Which reinforces the need for a vaccine passport so that some people can get on with their lives and get the economy going again. Yes, I understand that this may sound unfair to the unvaccinated but shutting down economies does more harm than good. Open things up safely with vaccine passports.

[Danderman123]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:12 PM, redwood1 said:

 

Correct the vaccine does not stop anyone from getting or transmitting a virus.....It only reduces the symptoms of a virus....

And each new virus strain will require more vaccinations indefinitely same as the flu shot.... 

I am unaware of any documented cases of Covid transmission from a fully vaccinated individual. 

[Danderman123]

On 4/8/2021 at 5:11 AM, elliss said:

 

   Side effects of the vaccine ?.   

 Blood clots , going viral . 

      Take your choice . 

       No refunds ...

 

1 in a million develop blood clots after vaccination. 

 

1000+ in a million die from Covid. 

[shdmn]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:21 PM, Kaopad999 said:

vaccinated, or not? 
 

You have to be vaccinated.  

[shdmn]

15 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

1 in a million develop blood clots after vaccination. 

 

1000+ in a million die from Covid. 

Antivaxxers are a funny bunch.  The just will ignore that second fact.  Doesn't even enter their tiny minds.

Edited April 9, 2021 by shdmn

[Jimbo2014]

9 hours ago, hioctane said:

If the vaccinated are tested negative before they enter, then the odds of infecting the unvaccinated are even lower when combined with reduced transmission rates.

Besides, they are not allowing the vaccinated to enter quarantine free until the Thai people are vaccinated 70% (Phase 2 Phuket plan).

 

Which reinforces the need for a vaccine passport so that some people can get on with their lives and get the economy going again. Yes, I understand that this may sound unfair to the unvaccinated but shutting down economies does more harm than good. Open things up safely with vaccine passports.

 

The solution is relatively simple - purchase vaccines and vaccinate everyone.

[Peter Denis]

10 hours ago, hioctane said:

If the vaccinated are tested negative before they enter, then the odds of infecting the unvaccinated are even lower when combined with reduced transmission rates.

Besides, they are not allowing the vaccinated to enter quarantine free until the Thai people are vaccinated 70% (Phase 2 Phuket plan).

 

Which reinforces the need for a vaccine passport so that some people can get on with their lives and get the economy going again. Yes, I understand that this may sound unfair to the unvaccinated but shutting down economies does more harm than good. Open things up safely with vaccine passports.

It seems that Martin Kulldorff and Jay Bhattacharya are of a different opinion re vaccine passports.

FYI > Mr. Kulldorff is a biostatistician and epidemiologist, and professor at Harvard Medical School.  Dr. Bhattacharya is a physician and economist, and professor at Stanford Medical School.

Attached a link to the April 6 article they published in the Wall Street Journal > https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccine-passports-prolong-lockdowns-11617726629

For those that cannot access the full article, I added the PDF version.

 

 

Vaccine Passports Prolong Lockdowns - WSJ _ April 2021.pdf

Edited April 10, 2021 by Peter Denis