4 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

What nonsense ! The vaccine is in European countries production and development paid for by UK.  The EU has failed miserably .total EU disaster

Its the manufacturer that messed up and is in breach of contract

https://www.roedl.com/insights/the-vaccine-war-astrazeneca-vs-eu-fact-check

Just now, Moonlover said:

You mean as in Spanish Flu? (more correctly US Army Flu) There were no vaccines around then were there. And what about rhinovirus? There is no vaccine for that either, yet we manage to defend ourselves quite naturally against it.

 

Herd immunity is nature's way and has been protecting us, in the long term, ever since we existed and as @Peter Denis mentioned above, strengthening our own immune system and using common sense is our own best defense.

Spanish flu is still around today. good luck in substituting the vaccine for Vitamin D which has been shown to have marginal to no benefits for most of us who have normal levels of vitamin D already.

9 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

17 hours ago, Pilotman said:

To quote Mandy Rice Davies; well they would say that wouldn't they. Jealously knows no bounds when it comes to Macron and his cronies. 

 

9 hours ago, Albert Zweistein said:

And what would Christine Keeler say to it ?

Mandy Rice-Davies didn't say that. She said  'he would, wouldn't he?

6 minutes ago, polpott said:

Spanish flu is still around today. good luck in substituting the vaccine for Vitamin D which has been shown to have marginal to no benefits for most of us who have normal levels of vitamin D already.

That is not correct. Descendants of the virus still exist, but we develop herd immunity against those newer versions. I do not take vitamin D. No one should need to in Thailand's climate, but exercise, fresh clean air (yes I do breath it, even in Thailand) and a good diet all help to protect us.

 

Oh and keep off the smokes and alcohol. (although I'm not quite there on the latter ????)

 

24 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The idea that herd immunity could be achieved with mass-vaccination also looks like a pipe-dream according to this March 2021 article in Nature.

      > https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2

Even with vaccination efforts in full force, the theoretical threshold for vanquishing COVID-19 looks to be out of reach.

And the author spells out five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible:

• It's unclear whether vaccines prevent transmission
• Vaccine roll-out is uneven
• New variants change the herd-immunity equation
• Immunity might not last forever
• Vaccines might change human behavior

 

Five reasons why COVID herd immunity is probably impossible _ Nature - March 2021.pdf 446.3 kB · 0 downloads

Im sure you got a better option then vaccines please tell me. I mean you are one that always attacks vaccines and always comes with outlier theories that later get shot down and then you hop the next one. Your staying awfully silent about the Belgian professor that expected disaster. I looked back when you first reported it and we are more then 4 week on and the disaster should have happened. Why is that you keep going for outliners and each time see them not come true but never adjust your opinion ?.

 

I mean the Belgian professor started warning somewhere in february. (see your supplied lancet file) and we are now almost half april. If something was going to happen it had. I just don't get it why you keep siding with outliers instead with the general consensus. I could understand if your outliers were proven right. But so far none of them has. 

Just now, robblok said:

Im sure you got a better option then vaccines please tell me.

let those  susceptible die.

I'm  not  sure it's a better option, but it's  the  option that always worked in the past.

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

let those  susceptible die.

I'm  not  sure it's a better option, but it's  the  option that always worked in the past.

Its a better option if it were the covid deniers and people like you who don't care died. I prefer to hold on to my parents a bit longer. 

38 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

That is not correct. Descendants of the virus still exist, but we develop herd immunity against those newer versions. I do not take vitamin D. No one should need to in Thailand's climate, but exercise, fresh clean air (yes I do breath it, even in Thailand) and a good diet all help to protect us.

 

Oh and keep off the smokes and alcohol. (although I'm not quite there on the latter ????)

 

If your so sure that your protected because of your lifestyle why don't you visit some Covid patients share a glas and so on. I mean who needs vaccines or medicine you got a healthy body so your bullet proof ?

 

If i was vaccinated with Moderna or something like that id do that test. But are you willing to do the same unvaccinated ?

Edited April 12, 20215 yr by robblok

26 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

let those  susceptible die.

I'm  not  sure it's a better option, but it's  the  option that always worked in the past.

A horrible thing to suggest.  Terrible.

I think a good thing would be to have a group of covid deniers who are truly convinced and a group of vaccinated people and then let both groups be exposed to the virus. 

 

Then show the results that should make things clear. Too bad nobody will do something that unethically. (i mean scientists)

 

But that would settle the discussion for once and for all.

18 hours ago, Kurtf said:

Except vaccinations against covid 19 are only partially(less than 50%) effective against new strains. So yeah everyone rush out and get jabbed, Wasting your time.

 

50% less likely to catch the virus is still better than nothing. But vaccines also significantly reduce the risk of developing serious illness from COVID-19. This is what many people seem to be missing when talking about vaccine efficacy.

 

Vaccines have two jobs: 1) prevent vaccinated person from catching the virus, and 2) prevent serious illness in case of catching the virus.

 

By how much? Obviously it's still early to say and we need more data, but here's something from BBC "The PHS study found that, by the fourth week after the first dose of either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines, the risk of being admitted to hospital had been reduced by 81%." - so let's say 50% reduced risk of catching it and 80% reduced risk of serious illness.

 

Let's say 5% get a serious illness, then hypothetically it would look like this:

 

Group of 1000 people (not vaccinated)
Catch the virus: 1000 people
Serious illness (5%) = 50 people

 

Group of 1000 people (vaccinated)
Catch the virus: 500 people (50% less)
Serious illness (1%): 5 people (80% less i.e. 1% instead of 5%)

 

As you can see, even with 50% efficacy it does actually help a lot to get vaccinated, especially if everyone gets vaccinated.

 

49 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

That is not correct. Descendants of the virus still exist, but we develop herd immunity against those newer versions. I do not take vitamin D. No one should need to in Thailand's climate, but exercise, fresh clean air (yes I do breath it, even in Thailand) and a good diet all help to protect us.

 

Oh and keep off the smokes and alcohol. (although I'm not quite there on the latter ????)

 

Agreed.  But millions died before herd immunity was achieved.  And this new virus is mutating like crazy.  The new variants might not be fought off with the current jabs nor previous infections.  Crazy times.

 

I'm working on your last part also.  Being healthy is a huge part of dealing with this virus. 

There is no third wave. It is made up news. It is a continuation of the second wave, that was started by the inaction of Prayuth and Anutin. You want someone to blame? Blame those two. Due to a pathological fear of the optics of a lockdown, they refused to lock down ground zero, Samut Sakhon, the first day of the second outbreak. It is beyond comprehension. It should have been locked down like a maximum security penitentiary. Cordoned off. A 2km. radius, around that seafood market where they found 900 positive cases. That is not something that can be construed as a lockdown. Just a tiny area. A competent advisor should have sent Prayuth to a shrink, for many hours of counseling, so the nation could be saved.

 

Nobody comes in or out. And can anyone guess why it wasn't? Squash the protest movement? Fear of the optics of a lockdown? No other explanation means anything, or comes close to breaking down why this action as not decisively taken. Sure, the main market was closed. But, people were allowed to travel freely, and become super spreaders. Just incredibly dumb policy and a nearly unforgivable lack of action. If the Thai people are to blame someone, these two should be at the top of the list. The wave just continued until now. Use the "variant excuse" all you want. Many of us are not buying it. 

 

 

And I still have the drug cocktail in my house. Zithro, Amoxy, and Zinc. Just in case. Many doctors have had a 100% cure rate with it. Do not even talk to me about protocols, or years of testing. We do not have years. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 20215 yr by spidermike007

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed.  But millions died before herd immunity was achieved.  And this new virus is mutating like crazy.  The new variants might not be fought off with the current jabs nor previous infections.  Crazy times.

 

I'm working on your last part also.  Being healthy is a huge part of dealing with this virus. 

Yes being healthy is a huge advantage if you get it, however i doubt it prevents people from getting it.

 

First Singaporean that caught the virus in Thailand, active guy did a lot of soccer not overweight and ate healthy. He still got it. (talked with he person myself so its first hand information).  No underlying disease nothing. He recovered but took time to get his original health back. Death is not the only thing that is bad about covid. 

 

Oh he was below 40 years old. 

Edited April 12, 20215 yr by robblok

read the new article on Bangkok Post!!!!

chasing there butts

8 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

There is no third wave. It is made up news. It is a continuation of the second wave, that was started by the inaction of Prayuth and Anutin. You want someone to blame? Blame those two. Due to a pathological fear of the optics of a lockdown, they refused to lock down ground zero, Samut Sakhon, the first day of the second outbreak. It is beyond comprehension. It should have been locked down like a maximum security penitentiary. Cordoned off. A 2km. radius, around that seafood market where they found 900 positive cases. That is not something that can be construed as a lockdown. Just a tiny area. A competent advisor should have sent Prayuth to a shrink, for many hours of counseling, so the nation could be saved.

 

Nobody comes in or out. And can anyone guess why it wasn't? Squash the protest movement? Fear of the optics of a lockdown? No other explanation means anything, or comes close to breaking down why this action as not decisively taken. Sure, the main market was closed. But, people were allowed to travel freely, and become super spreaders. Just incredibly dumb policy and a nearly unforgivable lack of action. If the Thai people are to blame someone, these two should be at the top of the list. The wave just continued until now. Use the "variant excuse" all you want. Many of us are not buying it. 

 

 

And I still have the drug cocktail in my house. Zithro, Amoxy, and Zinc. Just in case. Many doctors have had a 100% cure rate with it. Do not even talk to me about protocols, or years of testing. We do not have years. 

 

 

 

 

The last part has been proven to not work.  No CREDIBLE doctors have had a 100% cure rate with it.  Please, don't post misinformation.

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes being healthy is a huge advantage if you get it, however i doubt it prevents people from getting it.

 

First Singaporean that caught the virus in Thailand, active guy did a lot of soccer not overweight and ate healthy. He still got it. (talked with he person myself so its first hand information).  No underlying disease nothing. He recovered but took time to get his original health back. Death is not the only thing that is bad about covid. 

 

Oh he was below 40 years old. 

Singapore is investigating a person who previously had covid.  Came into the country.  Was in quarantine.  Tested negative after 14 days.  And now, has the virus.  They're not sure how she got it and they are VERY good at contact tracing.  Scary.

 

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/1-new-case-of-locally-transmitted-covid-19-infection_10AprUpdat

 

Case 61768, a 71 year-old female Indian national, is a Short-Term Visit Pass holder who is a retiree. She arrived from India on 28 December 2020 and served SHN at a dedicated facility until 10 January 2021. Her test taken on 8 January during SHN was negative for COVID-19. As she had been identified as a close contact of Cases 59169 and 59173 during their flight to Singapore, she was placed on quarantine from 10 January to 11 January.

 

She developed a fever on 5 April and was tested for COVID-19 when she sought medical treatment the next day. Her test result came back positive for COVID-19 infection on 8 April and she was conveyed in an ambulance to the National Centre for Infectious Diseases. Another test conducted by the National Public Health Laboratory on 9 April was negative for COVID-19 infection. Her serological test result has come back positive, which is indicative of a past infection. She could be shedding minute fragments of the virus RNA, which are no longer transmissible and infective to others, but given that we are not able to definitively conclude when she had been infected, we will take all the necessary public health actions as a precautionary measure.

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

If your so sure that your protected because of your lifestyle why don't you visit some Covid patients share a glas and so on. I mean who needs vaccines or medicine you got a healthy body so your bullet proof ?

 

If i was vaccinated with Moderna or something like that id do that test. But are you willing to do the same unvaccinated ?

I am not arguing against vaccination and just where did I suggest that I'm 'bullet proof?'

 

Anyone, vaccinated or not, should keep their distance from a known or suspected Covid case and follow the other protocols when in public.

Just now, Moonlover said:

I am not arguing against vaccination and just where did I suggest that I'm 'bullet proof?'

 

Anyone, vaccinated or not, should keep their distance from a known or suspected Covid case and follow the other protocols when in public.

Seemed like it, so you accept that being healthy will not prevent you from getting covid ?

You also agree that vaccination gives far more protection then being healthy ?

 

Just to get it clear how your thinking as there is a group that thinks being healthy taking supplements takes away the risk of getting the disease. I mean why else talk about staying healthy all of a sudden. I mean even an unhealthy person that is vaccinated has more protection then a healthy one. 

 

Now a healthy one vaccinated would be the best protection ever. But to think that you don't need vaccination if you have a good immune system is crazy. Though some people still promote it. 

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

Seemed like it, so you accept that being healthy will not prevent you from getting covid ?

You also agree that vaccination gives far more protection then being healthy ?

 

Just to get it clear how your thinking as there is a group that thinks being healthy taking supplements takes away the risk of getting the disease. I mean why else talk about staying healthy all of a sudden. I mean even an unhealthy person that is vaccinated has more protection then a healthy one. 

 

Now a healthy one vaccinated would be the best protection ever. But to think that you don't need vaccination if you have a good immune system is crazy. Though some people still promote it. 

You seem to have developed a misconception that I believe keeping fit and healthy will prevent me from contracting Covid. I didn't say that, neither do I believe it.

 

My contention is that being fit and healthy renders me better equipped, mentally and physically to fend off the illness should I contract it.

 

And I will take up the offer of a vaccine when it comes my way. I'm already on the village priority list (by way of age) when our turn comes round.

 

Stay safe.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 20215 yr by Moonlover

2 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

You seem to have developed a misconception that I believe keeping fit and healthy will prevent me from contracting Covid. I didn't say that, neither do I believe it.

 

My contention is that being fit and healthy renders me better equipped, mentally and physically to fend off the illness should I contract it.

 

And I will take up the offer of a vaccine when it comes my way. I'm already on the village priority list (by way of age) when our turn comes round.

 

Stay safe.

 

 

 

Then I am totally in agreement with you. I try to keep healthy too. I am a bit irritable at times because there are so many people who deny the disease and seem to think its not that bad. A lot of them have the same arguments you had. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

I too believe that being healthy will help if you get it, actually it is proven it helps as most who die have underlying illness too. However also without it you can still die. I rather not catch it at all. I am most worried about the after effects that are reported in a high number of cases. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed.  But millions died before herd immunity was achieved.  And this new virus is mutating like crazy.  The new variants might not be fought off with the current jabs nor previous infections.  Crazy times.

 

I'm working on your last part also.  Being healthy is a huge part of dealing with this virus. 

The reason why the death toll from Spanish Flu was so high was because the second wave was a mutation that killed off young, healthy victims as well as the old.

 

Let's hope this virus doesn't emulate it, or gawd 'elp us!

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Just depends who you believe

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/hydroxychloroquine-doesnt-benefit-hospitalized-covid-19-patients

 

And in the end, it's best not to suggest dodgy alternative medicines for a serious virus like this.  Stick with the science.

Firstly, I’m not a health worker but so grateful to those that are around world. I do understand maths and statistics and calculating risks.

 

The  most basic of basics, is how can this government get a true picture and trying to project a future risk calculation based on totally inaccurate figures where people are having to be rejected tests and turned away or having to wait days before a test can be undertaken. This being due to a totally failing government system and lack of testing kits available around Thailand.

 

This  is not based on hear say but as I write this my wife’s company a very senior member of a multi billion company has been diagnosed and she is being told that tests will be available on Friday and needs to go.
 

The daily figures that we all see are based on what ? A small % of those who have had tests completed and not those awaiting tests but due to a lack of tests available even though the company are paying for all staff
 

16 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

The reason why the death toll from Spanish Flu was so high was because the second wave was a mutation that killed off young, healthy victims as well as the old.

 

Let's hope this virus doesn't emulate it, or gawd 'elp us!

Already happening with the P1 variant...

So yes, God help us...

I suggest not going to hospital for a test . If you test positive and even with no symptoms it is mandatory to be admitted as an inpatient and undergo treatment . There is no allowance for self isolation in your home..That's the madness Thailand has become ..

 

 

1 minute ago, pixelaoffy said:

I suggest not going to hospital for a test . If you test positive and even with no symptoms it is mandatory to be admitted as an inpatient and undergo treatment . There is no allowance for self isolation in your home..That's the madness Thailand has become ..

 

 

That is not madness, its because people don't self isolate. People don't follow the rules. Self isolation never works 100% as there are a lot of people who don't like the rules. 

 

But yes it would have been better if you could do it at home. But the problem is a symptomatic people will feel good and probably not want to stay at home. Unless there was something like ancle monitors (ones you cannot take off) and a dedicated center that tracks those people it will not work.

5 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Already happening with the P1 variant...

So yes, God help us...

Sounds a lot like scaremongering, as the two US vaccines provide high protection against the Brazilian variant. Vaccines will be improved. Now that the basis is there its not that hard.

 

But yes Shinovax does not seem to work the other vaccines do (a bit less then the normal variant)

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant

1 minute ago, robblok said:

That is not madness, its because people don't self isolate. People don't follow the rules. Self isolation never works 100% as there are a lot of people who don't like the rules. 

 

But yes it would have been better if you could do it at home. But the problem is a symptomatic people will feel good and probably not want to stay at home. Unless there was something like ancle monitors (ones you cannot take off) and a dedicated center that tracks those people it will not work.

It is madness ! Because I would not go to a hospital, pay 2500 baht for a test.  Told I'm positive and have to by law stay in hospital ..Another example of Thai stupidy

1 minute ago, pixelaoffy said:

It is madness ! Because I would not go to a hospital, pay 2500 baht for a test.  Told I'm positive and have to by law stay in hospital ..Another example of Thai stupidy

Its madness in your case you might actually follow the rule while many others will not. your not the problem but a large portion of the public is the problem. 

 

But I fully understand your problem, its also one of the reasons id hate to go and test if i am not at risk or feeling ill. Too bad laws are made to accommodate stupid people. Not those who follow the rules.