On 4/11/2021 at 12:27 PM, BritManToo said:

Where was the option to say no government can control COVID.

No need to bash the thai government.

Quite. Been very quiet around here for Songkran with everyone still keeping their distance and wearing a mask, unlike the UK. I would be a bit more concerned if I saw that on the streets here. Is it any wonder the bulk of the Thai population do not want the foreigners.

 

London’s Soho was busier than ever on Monday night — although some of those enjoying the reopening of pubs admitted there was “very little” social distancing being adhered to.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pubs-reopening-soho-social-distancing-b1830390.html

On 4/13/2021 at 7:24 AM, Peter Denis said:

Are health-authorities using different vaccine-brands for first and second shot?  Nothing surprises me anymore, but that would be pushing the experimental nature of these emergency-approved vaccines to the limit.  

As far as I am aware it is only being done on a trial basis with patient consent. The reality is someone has to do it to obtain the data.

Some experts believe mixing could lead to better protection but like other issues it has to be proven, and with vaccines, well beyond reasonable doubt.

Back in the 50s there was no vaccine monitoring and the likes of polio and smallpox were eradicated. It is a judgement call will deaths be greater from the virus or the vaccine?

On 4/11/2021 at 9:47 AM, Kurtf said:

Except vaccinations against covid 19 are only partially(less than 50%) effective against new strains. So yeah everyone rush out and get jabbed, Wasting your time.

100% incorrect there is only one vaccine proven to be barely effective at 50.7% but you carry on with your stupid belief, sadly you are a total danger to everyone probably just because a needle frightens the s++t out of you.

I genuinely hope you never get this devastating sickness but if you do I hope again that when your bodily organs are shutting down and you are gasping for breath you will remember your words.

 

You are wearing your mask to high sunshine it is time to lower it a little and open your eyes.

 

I will never wish ill on you or anyone else but I am pig sick of Facebook scientists with no Idea or understanding of what is happening across the world.

The U.K. has now vaccinated 40 million and lowered the infection rate from 20,000 + per day to under 3,000 yesterday and the death rate from 1,500 per day to 23 all because of the vaccine rollout.

this virus has humbled governments and countries all over the world.

Thailand managed to control it but in a dear price - major hurt to the economy.

The problem is that many lives are being lost also from lockdowns.

So as Thailand try  to reopen the economy and borders to the much needed AI farang,

the virus might come back with a vengeance.

On 4/11/2021 at 1:51 PM, trainman34014 said:

They were too busy basking in the limelight of being so successful to deal with very small numbers last year that they forgot in might come back and bite their Butt !    Not proactive in ordering enough shots anywhere near early enough to keep the Population safe whilst the number of cases were low but you can't expect anything other than inefficiency from a bunch of jumped up Soldiers (Gangsters) in Parliament.  Total disaster now and out of control but all we will get from the Brainless of Bangkok will be excuses as they try ever so heard to blame everyone and anyone but themselves !

 

I fear you have nailed it. Hardly any effort was made over the past year to build healthcare capacity or order vaccines to prepare for the big one. Now the health system is likely to be overwhelmed very fast and black marketeers allied to police and military will be selling oxygen tanks at vast prices to families having to treat sick family members at home. It has happened in Brazil due to a similar leadership vacuum.

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

So as Thailand try  to reopen the economy and borders to the much needed AI farang,

the virus might come back with a vengeance.

Don’t blame the Farang!!

most if not all of the infections in Thailand are as a result of porous borders and the border hoppers that use them and then avoid quarantine.

Any future farang coming back now or later will have to show proof of vaccination and further testing before they get past immigration. And before you say it , there is certain proof that once vaccinated there is very little to no possibility of being Asymptomatic and therefore not likely to infect others.

The proof of that is on the net, one simply needs to search it.

 

I came through the swampy airport 4 weeks ago that is not where this new spike has originated 100%

On 4/14/2021 at 3:15 PM, Janner1 said:

The U.K. has now vaccinated 40 million and lowered the infection rate from 20,000 + per day to under 3,000 yesterday and the death rate from 1,500 per day to 23 all because of the vaccine rollout.

No, part of it is due to people paying for non-alcoholic meals/drinks at the counter, but if booze is included, they must pay to the waiter whilst still sitting outside.   LOL   555

On 4/10/2021 at 10:48 PM, Freigeist365 said:

Any disease will run its natural course eventually, regardless of governments either trying to knee jerk reacting against it or not. In some cases it will destroy life, and in others strengthen the immune system of the healthy and strong ones. In a society, where we have been indoctrinated to bash and hate the strong, hard working and innovative ones while investing all our money, time and effort into getting even the weakest and laziest pulled through, a big natural "cleanup" is long, long overdue! May the strongest and the best of us survive.

Sounds like 19th century eugenics thinking, very common in this group.

Doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny but great for starting a political party, usually doesn't end well for anyone.

On 4/14/2021 at 3:15 PM, Janner1 said:

100% incorrect there is only one vaccine proven to be barely effective at 50.7% but you carry on with your stupid belief, sadly you are a total danger to everyone probably just because a needle frightens the s++t out of you.

I genuinely hope you never get this devastating sickness but if you do I hope again that when your bodily organs are shutting down and you are gasping for breath you will remember your words.

Pointless rant .........

There is no vaccine available to us in Thailand.

On 4/11/2021 at 5:59 PM, Peter Denis said:

What about strengthening your immune system and applying some common sense?  But the latter seems to be in short supply...

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-to-boost-your-immune-system

 

"For now, there are no scientifically proven direct links between lifestyle and enhanced immune function."

 

Common sense recommendations from the same article:

 

"Don't smoke.

Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.

Exercise regularly.

Maintain a healthy weight.

If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.

Get adequate sleep.

Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.

Try to minimize stress.

Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."

 

A lot of health gurus blather on about "super charging" your immune system and such, but there really isn't a way to dramatically improve your overall immune system.

 

All these recommendations (with the exception of vaccines) are targeted at the innate (or general) immune system.

Vaccines are targeted at the adaptive (or specific) immune system which targets a specific pathogen that has been previously encountered.

The adaptive immune system targets the pathogen (virus in this case) much more effectively.

 

The most effective way to strengthen your immune system with respect to COVID is a vaccine.

That is beyond debate.

 

 

 

 

On 4/14/2021 at 1:08 AM, sandyf said:

It is a judgement call will deaths be greater from the virus or the vaccine?

Well yes.

The judgement is that the the number of deaths from the vaccine will be fewer.

This is as is sometimes said "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer".

There will almost certainly be some deaths from the vaccine when millions of people are being vaccinated; but to suggest the numbers will be such as to overwhelm hospital and mortuary capacity as COVID has done is nonsense.

 "More than 841 million vaccine doses have been administered worldwide" (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html)

and deaths associated with the vaccine, and not necessarily determined to have been caused by the vaccine are how many?  Have there been dozens? hundreds?

13 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-to-boost-your-immune-system

...

The most effective way to strengthen your immune system with respect to COVID is a vaccine.

That is beyond debate.

Thanks for the link to this 'common sense' article.

The conclusion in the last paragraph which you wrote, is your opinion.

I don't agree with that, but as it is 'beyond debate' I will not challenge it.

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for the link to this 'common sense' article.

The conclusion in the last paragraph which you wrote, is your opinion.

I don't agree with that, but as it is 'beyond debate' I will not challenge it.

Probably I overstated as in this forum nothing is beyond debate.

I hope you don't feel this was a personal attack as I had no such intent.

Even still, common sense measures and supplements and superfoods and the other candidates for strengthening the immune system have an effect that so modest as to be undetectable.

Vaccinations are very effective and for that reason I don't fear smallpox, measles, polio, mumps or rubella.

For protection from a specific pathogen a vaccine is much more protective than eating blueberries or açaí berries or beetroot etc.

30 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks for the link to this 'common sense' article.

The conclusion in the last paragraph which you wrote, is your opinion.

I don't agree with that, but as it is 'beyond debate' I will not challenge it.

It is beyond debate. The vaccine is the only way out of this mess.

when I read the covid news from USA, Europe, and Australia, it's all about the vaccination program - in Thailand not a word. Hoping for some action soon.

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

It is beyond debate. The vaccine is the only way out of this mess.

Your opinion, not mine...

 

Allow me to quote dr Zoe Harcombe PhD, who nailed it eloquently:

John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.
Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

18 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Your opinion, not mine...

 

Allow me to quote dr Zoe Harcombe PhD, who nailed it eloquently:

John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.
Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

Not my opinion.  The opinion of the majority of scientists.  My opinion means nothing. 

34 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Your opinion, not mine...

 

Allow me to quote dr Zoe Harcombe PhD, who nailed it eloquently:

John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.
Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

I think that is a different question entirely.

If I understand you, you are referring to compulsory vaccination.

I have not advocated that and I was not discussing that.

That would be a topic in medical ethics and perhaps a question of individual rights.

I was expressing my "informed opinion" on questions of immunology, to clarify "amateur immunology" as I am not an immunologist.

11 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

I think that is a different question entirely.

If I understand you, you are referring to compulsory vaccination.

I have not advocated that and I was not discussing that.

That would be a topic in medical ethics and perhaps a question of individual rights.

I was expressing my "informed opinion" on questions of immunology, to clarify "amateur immunology" as I am not an immunologist.

The quote I posted was not in response to your message.

Your stance in this is appreciated, and I am actually in agreement with you.

But it would be hard to deny that the overriding current narrative is to 'vaccinate everybody' as a way out of this mess... and then it is only a small step to advocate mandatory mass-vaccination.  The - faulty - argument being that otherwise herd-immunity will not be reached.

 

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The quote I posted was not in response to your message.

Your stance in this is appreciated, and I am actually in agreement with you.

But it would be hard to deny that the overriding current narrative is to 'vaccinate everybody' as a way out of this mess... and then it is only a small step to advocate mandatory mass-vaccination.  The - faulty - argument being that otherwise herd-immunity will not be reached.

 

If it comes to mandatory vaccinations, then so be it.  Sad when some believe the anti-vax nonsense.  Our only way out of this is with vaccinations.  Those who opt out for other than health reasons don't get it.  Or don't care.

 

At least some are now getting it.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/03/26/anti-vaccine-mother-covid-19-misinformation-orig.cnn-business

Why this former anti-vaxx influencer is getting the Covid vaccine

Heather Simpson had a following online due to her anti-vaccine beliefs. Now, she worries the anti-vaccine misinformation she promoted hurt other children. She explains her change of heart to CNN Business' Donie O'Sullivan.

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

If it comes to mandatory vaccinations, then so be it.  Sad when some believe the anti-vax nonsense.  Our only way out of this is with vaccinations.  Those who opt out for other than health reasons don't get it.  Or don't care.

 

At least some are now getting it.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/03/26/anti-vaccine-mother-covid-19-misinformation-orig.cnn-business

Why this former anti-vaxx influencer is getting the Covid vaccine

Heather Simpson had a following online due to her anti-vaccine beliefs. Now, she worries the anti-vaccine misinformation she promoted hurt other children. She explains her change of heart to CNN Business' Donie O'Sullivan.

CNN....could be a huge set up....just saying (this is a joke)

40 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2021/03/26/anti-vaccine-mother-covid-19-misinformation-orig.cnn-business

Why this former anti-vaxx influencer is getting the Covid vaccine

Heather Simpson had a following online due to her anti-vaccine beliefs. Now, she worries the anti-vaccine misinformation she promoted hurt other children. She explains her change of heart to CNN Business' Donie O'Sullivan.

Thanks! 

This moving testimony totally convinced me. 

Where can I line up for my jab?

Attention: sarcasm alert!

Edited April 16, 20215 yr by Peter Denis

1 minute ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks! 

This moving testimony totally convinced me. 

Where can I line up for my jab?

You have to put (sarcasm)....or you will confuse people.

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thanks! 

This moving testimony totally convinced me. 

Where can I line up for my jab?

Looks a lot like the antivaxers are the sheeple. These things should be broadcasted much wider. Maybe a few more anti vaxers will go more mainstream. She explains it quite well.. that they knew it better then doctors.. even calling it a cult.  (a good description). 

 

I had expected a bit more drama in the movie like she lost her kid because of covid. Many people only learn when its too late. 

 

Lets hope more antivaxers come to their senses and stop thinking they know it better then mainstream. They take outlier opinions. Like you with the Belgian scientist (seems nothing happened) but do you actually learn from this. That those outlier theories are highly unlikely.. and perhaps switch to the more accepted and more likely data. 

 

Because that is what the problem is antivaxers using outlier data in lieu of the overwhelming normal data. They look for the studies that show something different. Even if its outlier and the majority of findings goes against it. Because hey need to hangg on to their beliefs. (hence that i found the cult mentioning good).

 

Jim Jones got his followers to swallow poison, antivax spoke people don't even have to do that they only have to convince people NOT to do something.  

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Looks a lot like the antivaxers are the sheeple. These things should be broadcasted much wider. Maybe a few more anti vaxers will go more mainstream. She explains it quite well.. that they knew it better then doctors.. even calling it a cult.  (a good description). 

 

I had expected a bit more drama in the movie like she lost her kid because of covid. Many people only learn when its too late. 

 

Lets hope more antivaxers come to their senses and stop thinking they know it better then mainstream. They take outlier opinions. Like you with the Belgian scientist (seems nothing happened) but do you actually learn from this. That those outlier theories are highly unlikely.. and perhaps switch to the more accepted and more likely data. 

 

Because that is what the problem is antivaxers using outlier data in lieu of the overwhelming normal data. They look for the studies that show something different. Even if its outlier and the majority of findings goes against it. Because hey need to hangg on to their beliefs. (hence that i found the cult mentioning good).

 

Jim Jones got his followers to swallow poison, antivax spoke people don't even have to do that they only have to convince people NOT to do something.  

Many get their information from social media.  Sadly, they easily fall for the lies and misinformation.

Not looking good.  Over 10,000 still in care.  16 on ventilators?  Not good....

 

 

25 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Allow me to quote dr Zoe Harcombe PhD,

Allow me to tell you about Zoe Harcombe. A nutritionist who is best known for yet another bonkers diet plan which she has made considerable money out of, PhD in public health nutrition. Not an epidemiologist, just another YouTube conspiracy theory nut job/snake oil saleswoman.

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Allow me to tell you about Zoe Harcombe. A nutritionist who is best known for yet another bonkers diet plan which she has made considerable money out of, PhD in public health nutrition. Not an epidemiologist, just another YouTube conspiracy theory nut job/snake oil saleswoman.

Always the ad hominem attacks by Brother #1...

I don't care if she is an epidemiologist, a nutritionist or a bus-driver.

It's common decency not to take credit for someone else's quotes and that's the only reason I mentioned her.  Irrespective of her background she did put it very eloquently imo.

But probably did strike a raw nerve...

 

John wants Jane locked away from human contact for a year+, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to be masked & distanced indefinitely, so he feels safer.
John wants Jane to have a medical intervention, so he feels safer.
Jane wants nothing from John; but she's the selfish one?!

 

10 minutes ago, polpott said:

Allow me to tell you about Zoe Harcombe. A nutritionist who is best known for yet another bonkers diet plan which she has made considerable money out of, PhD in public health nutrition. Not an epidemiologist, just another YouTube conspiracy theory nut job/snake oil saleswoman.

Stunning so many fall for this fake information.  Boggles my mind.