Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

22 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Unfortunately as a PR holder with 2 more years to go, before I can apply for citizenship, the same thing will probably happen that happened after my PR application.... change of governments and 8 years of waiting until PR was approved.

 

Making someone wait 8 years for PR is an utter disgrace.  You must feel very frustrated waiting to apply for citizenship.  All I can say is that if Prayut gets his wish and returns as PM, he is sure to put up a fight to keep the Interior Ministry in a safe pair of hands and keep current policies going. Alternatively they might manage to delay elections even longer, which I personally wouldn't mind too much as I will be allowed to vote in 2020, not that I can see anyone worth voting for.

[THAIJAMES]

3 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Making someone wait 8 years for PR is an utter disgrace.  You must feel very frustrated waiting to apply for citizenship.  All I can say is that if Prayut gets his wish and returns as PM, he is sure to put up a fight to keep the Interior Ministry in a safe pair of hands and keep current policies going. Alternatively they might manage to delay elections even longer, which I personally wouldn't mind too much as I will be allowed to vote in 2020, not that I can see anyone worth voting for.

Waiting for PR for 8 years was not that bad because, in the meantime I got automatic 6 month renewals without any paper work.  So basically enjoying  the benefits of PR without having paid the fees.

 

Would love to have citizenship now instead of waiting another 5-10 years.  So that I could buy property under my name, etc. But at the end of the day, waiting an extra few years probably will not make a big difference in my life.  

 

Really do enjoy reading your very insightful perspectives.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Is there any recent applicant reading this post who got his MOI interview in 2018 and could tell us how many months it was after the NIA interview or after the file was sent to MOI?

I have collected figures from four applicants who got theirs in 2017 and, if I'm correct, their waiting time has been 7, 8, 9 and 24 months after NIA.

[Kwarium]

I’ve been away a few months. Can anyone update if any oath takers have been published in the Royal Thai Gazette recently? 

I believe this is the link to check, but It’s all Greek to me. 8-)

 

http://www.mratchakitcha.soc.go.th/announce.html

 

If you could link to one of the citizenship publications, It would help me know what I’m looking for. 

 

Thanks as always!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

The latest one seems this one of 27 March 2018. http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2561/E/109/5.PDF

[Kwarium]

3 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

The latest one seems this one of 27 March 2018. http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2561/E/109/5.PDF

Thanks for that quick reply! Seems like they should be due for a batch anytime.

The waiting never gets seems to get any easier. 8-)

[greenchair]

How Arkady can say he's not talking politics on this thread with a straight face is just rad. His last 6 posts have been very political including his wish that the current government will stay on until 2020. There's no evidence that the speed of citizenship is something that any other government couldn't have done as well. Several factors have disrupted the process. Starting with the sunami in 2004, the coup in 2006, the protests and disruption of the government  in 2010, the bombing of the erawan shrine, the coup of 2014 , and most significantly the king was ill and unable to sign for a long period of time, so there was quite some confusion about who would have the power to take care of that. The present government of course has section 44, which makes it possible for them to do anything they want when they want. Whereas elected governments are bound by many laws and red tape. Part of section 44 gives this government amnesty from any wrongdoing whatsoever, whereas elected officials are filling the jails because of a mistake that they made while administrating. I'm sure that any future elected government could achieve speedy projects with a section 44 beside them. The question is, could the Prayut government achieve all of his projects and speedy district services without it? As I did say, and others have pointed out. Having a close relationship with your case officer and checking in about your case at the MoI, goes a long way to move your case smoothly and quickly. 

 

[sathuluv]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:30 PM, Arkady said:

 

AFAIK they aim to hold them monthly but getting all 15 committee members from various departments (7 I think being from parts of the MoI), as prescribed in the Nationality Act is not feasible on a monthly basis.  I would guess they hold interviews 10 times in a good year and less in bad years.  Under the previous political governments they got rather slack at holding them and I think it drifted to around every other month but Gen Anuphong lit a fire under them and told them to set timelines which has speeded things up.   I am not sure how applicants they are including at present.  They tend to vary the format.  Some years ago they tried interviewing several applicants simultaneously at different tables but that presumably didn't work out.  At one point they decided to interview only in the mornings but I think they interviewing all day now. 

During my interview the whole day plan was, AM - Thai Husband and PM- Thai Wife. From 9am till 3:30pm. Every one gather in a room and gave the attendance and asked to sit in 3 rows to form a Q. 
As I mentioned earlier the MoI staffs were friendly and did mentioned that things are moving these days. 

[sathuluv]

16 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Thanks for that quick reply! Seems like they should be due for a batch anytime.

The waiting never gets seems to get any easier. 8-)

The latest was on 15th May 2018. Below steps could help you to check after the oath (6+weeks).

1. http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/announce/search.jsp
2. In the search field type ได้สัญชาติไทย and hit search
3. Go to the last page now its page 9
4. Scroll down the page 9 and see the last entry 881 was published on 15th May 2018.
   Hint: I use chrome browse to translate to English. So the above steps can help to check the status.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

28 minutes ago, sathuluv said:

The latest was on 15th May 2018.

You're right, March 27th was just the day the Interior Minister approved that batch so it seems it took two months for it to be published to RG.

Edited August 2, 2018 by GabbaGabbaHey

[Arkady]

On 8/2/2018 at 3:41 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

You're right, March 27th was just the day the Interior Minister approved that batch so it seems it took two months for it to be published to RG.

I have seen time lags of up to 5 months between the date of the minister's signature on the announcement and its actual publication in the RG. Normally it seems to take 1-2 months.  Seems to be some sort of variable bureaucratic delay in the RG publication process for non-urgent announcements.  Article 44 announcements seem to take place at lightening speed. 

[Neeranam]

On 8/1/2018 at 10:13 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Is there any recent applicant reading this post who got his MOI interview in 2018 and could tell us how many months it was after the NIA interview or after the file was sent to MOI?

I have collected figures from four applicants who got theirs in 2017 and, if I'm correct, their waiting time has been 7, 8, 9 and 24 months after NIA.

Do you know why one was so much longer?

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Do you know why one was so much longer?

I can't remember, but this would be a question for Kwarium.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I can't remember, but this would be a question for Kwarium.

Well thanks for your research, I could live with 9 months!

[qualtrough]

Just curious. Is there anyone here who got to the MOI Interview stage but was rejected, or who knows of anyone that happened to? If so, reason?

[onthemoon]

Another questions just came up: Right now, as an expat, I can transfer funds to my overseas accounts without problem as "salary repatriation". As a Thai citizen, there is no repatriation to any overseas country; will I still be able transfer funds to my overseas accounts?

[samran]

5 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

Another questions just came up: Right now, as an expat, I can transfer funds to my overseas accounts without problem as "salary repatriation". As a Thai citizen, there is no repatriation to any overseas country; will I still be able transfer funds to my overseas accounts?

Shouldn’t be an issue. I recall ‘family support’ being one of acceptable categories. Just told the bank I had to send money home to my parents and they were fine to set up the facility for me. 

[onthemoon]

Just now, samran said:

Shouldn’t be an issue. I recall ‘family support’ being one of acceptable categories. Just told the bank I had to send money home to my parents and they were fine to set up the facility for me. 

That's good to hear, as I heard Thai people needing to hand in documents, for example a proof that the family member they are supporting is actually studying in hat country.

[samran]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:31 PM, Neeranam said:

Does anyone know if there is a MOI interview day every month, or every three months, and how many applicants are seen in one day.

I heard it was about 50, is this right?

 I was also told that there was a backlog of 300, so trying too estimate a time, as it's important for my career.

All going to plan they should. When my wife was up for an interview there was a slight delay as a budget needed to be allocated for the forthcoming year (then the coup happened but that is another story), but it sounds like the budgeting and schedualling process is less sporadic that it has been under previous governments. My guess is they’ve made these interviews a permanent line item in the MOI budget as opposed to being a discretionary item. 

[samran]

6 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

That's good to hear, as I heard Thai people needing to hand in documents, for example a proof that the family member they are supporting is actually studying in hat country.

It’s been a while, but I think that it was minimal. To be honest, I think they just took me at my word.

[Neeranam]

On 8/6/2018 at 9:34 PM, Arkady said:

I have seen time lags of up to 5 months between the date of the minister's signature on the announcement and its actual publication in the RG. Normally it seems to take 1-2 months.  Seems to be some sort of variable bureaucratic delay in the RG publication process for non-urgent announcements.  Article 44 announcements seem to take place at lightening speed. 

When are you officially Thai?

 

Is it after the Minister's signature?

After the Royal Gazette?

After doing the oath?

After getting the ID card?

 

 

[Arkady]

11 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Another questions just came up: Right now, as an expat, I can transfer funds to my overseas accounts without problem as "salary repatriation". As a Thai citizen, there is no repatriation to any overseas country; will I still be able transfer funds to my overseas accounts?

BBL suggested the easiest way to remit overseas was to use a foreign passport for the Bank of Thailand documentation, as there is checking or follow up, if you remit modest amounts, due to the huge volume of routine fx transaction documents going to the central bank. In fact the whole system is redundant as there is no man power to do the work and very little point in doing it anyway.  It is a hang over from a former era with strict capital account controls that the BoT can't bring itself to let go of.  They had no problem using an ID card to withdraw the money from the account.  Either way I souldn't worry too much about transferring dosh overseas in future.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

When are you officially Thai?

 

Is it after the Minister's signature?

After the Royal Gazette?

After doing the oath?

After getting the ID card?

 

 

After the Royal Gazette.

[onthemoon]

8 hours ago, Arkady said:

BBL suggested the easiest way to remit overseas was to use a foreign passport for the Bank of Thailand documentation, as there is checking or follow up, if you remit modest amounts, due to the huge volume of routine fx transaction documents going to the central bank. In fact the whole system is redundant as there is no man power to do the work and very little point in doing it anyway.  It is a hang over from a former era with strict capital account controls that the BoT can't bring itself to let go of.  They had no problem using an ID card to withdraw the money from the account.  Either way I souldn't worry too much about transferring dosh overseas in future.

That will be a problem, because 1.) my accounts already show the Thai ID number rather than the passport number, and 2.) the moment I use my foreign passport in Thailand, the Thai citizenship will be automatically revoked.

 

I earn my money in Thailand but need to remit small amounts (below US$ 10,000) regularly to overseas. If I cannot do that, it would be a show-stopper for me. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

That will be a problem, because 1.) my accounts already show the Thai ID number rather than the passport number, and 2.) the moment I use my foreign passport in Thailand, the Thai citizenship will be automatically revoked.

Wow, I didn't know that, thanks for sharing.

I'd send crypto currency.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

I have a question regarding the case that after you got Thai ID and passport, the automatic gate is not available or not working and you're on your way by direct flight to your Western country of origin, obviously with no visa in the Thai passport. What is the way to answer Thai custom officers questions that, I guess, will be about how come you have no visa, you must have dual nationality, show me your other passport (what nobody wants to be doing, from what I understand) and so forth... Can someone who has real experience of this situation remind me what happens or how to handle it?

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, onthemoon said:

That will be a problem, because 1.) my accounts already show the Thai ID number rather than the passport number, and 2.) the moment I use my foreign passport in Thailand, the Thai citizenship will be automatically revoked.

 

I earn my money in Thailand but need to remit small amounts (below US$ 10,000) regularly to overseas. If I cannot do that, it would be a show-stopper for me. 

My account was also switched to my ID number but it was the lady in charge of the forex desk at that branch that suggested that solution and she didn't care that I had to use my ID card to withdraw the funds from the account first.  I needed to send $30k overseas urgently to cover an unintended short position that could not be covered in time from my overseas account. I was quite reluctant to do it but it was the only viable solution at the time and it worked. Later something similar  occurred and I did the same thing at the same branch with the same employee.  As already mentioned the head of the forex section told me there are thousands of those forms sent to the BoT every day and they are all filed eventually in the circular filing basket without anyone looking at them.  If you remit USD 50k plus in either direction you have to submit an extra layer of documentation which is probably actually glanced at in the BoT.  However, the banks are quite happy to remit several hundred USD at a time, as long as these forms are completed and all boxes look as if they have been ticked. For things like remittance of principle and interest on foreign loans they have to accept English language loan docs and the bank staff usually can't be bothered to look at them at all, even for up to a million USD.

 

Bottom line is this is something to bear in mind if you have to remit funds urgently but I would not make a habit of it. There are ways to do it using your ID card, if it is a regular non-urgent thing. It is not the BoT's job to sniff out dual ditizens of which are now many thousands residing in Thailand, mainly look krung. It might only become an issue, if you became the subject of a money laundering investigation which is not going to happen if you remit small amounts.

 

[sas_cars]

My account was also switched to my ID number but it was the lady in charge of the forex desk at that branch that suggested that solution and she didn't care that I had to use my ID card to withdraw the funds from the account first.  I needed to send $30k overseas urgently to cover an unintended short position that could not be covered in time from my overseas account. I was quite reluctant to do it but it was the only viable solution at the time and it worked. Later something similar  occurred and I did the same thing at the same branch with the same employee.  As already mentioned the head of the forex section told me there are thousands of those forms sent to the BoT every day and they are all filed eventually in the circular filing basket without anyone looking at them.  If you remit USD 50k plus in either direction you have to submit an extra layer of documentation which is probably actually glanced at in the BoT.  However, the banks are quite happy to remit several hundred USD at a time, as long as these forms are completed and all boxes look as if they have been ticked. For things like remittance of principle and interest on foreign loans they have to accept English language loan docs and the bank staff usually can't be bothered to look at them at all, even for up to a million USD.
 
Bottom line is this is something to bear in mind if you have to remit funds urgently but I would not make a habit of it. There are ways to do it using your ID card, if it is a regular non-urgent thing. It is not the BoT's job to sniff out dual ditizens of which are now many thousands residing in Thailand, mainly look krung. It might only become an issue, if you became the subject of a money laundering investigation which is not going to happen if you remit small amounts.
 

Sorry if I missed but what process did you do to transfer the funds out as thai citizen?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I have a question regarding the case that after you got Thai ID and passport, the automatic gate is not available or not working and you're on your way by direct flight to your Western country of origin, obviously with no visa in the Thai passport. What is the way to answer Thai custom officers questions that, I guess, will be about how come you have no visa, you must have dual nationality, show me your other passport (what nobody wants to be doing, from what I understand) and so forth... Can someone who has real experience of this situation remind me what happens or how to handle it?

I have twice come across the situation that the e-gates were not working and another more serious problem that the scanner which seems to be very old, poor quality technology will not recognise my prints half the time, although my iPhone 5 never failed to recognise them.  I have been sent to the manual queue several times with a sinking feeling, depending on where I was going or returning from.  The manual IOs never seem to care much when you are returning.  The risk is on the way out but they either didn't look or didn't care when it happened to me.  I think you are best to say that it is in process but renunciation is quite difficult and takes a long time waiting for the minister's approval in your country, just like in Thailand.  People I know who have been challenged said the IO just wanted to know how you were going to get into the other country and forced them to show the other pp but didn't say anything more. Again there are many thousands of duals going through every day and most officials have no clue about the law, although some have been told that dual is wrong, which it is not in the case of most of them, who are look krung.  Of course, no one wants to be a test case.  But what do you do?  Always travel via HK, S'pore etc?

[onthemoon]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

My account was also switched to my ID number but it was the lady in charge of the forex desk at that branch that suggested that solution and she didn't care that I had to use my ID card to withdraw the funds from the account first.  I needed to send $30k overseas urgently to cover an unintended short position that could not be covered in time from my overseas account. I was quite reluctant to do it but it was the only viable solution at the time and it worked. Later something similar  occurred and I did the same thing at the same branch with the same employee.  As already mentioned the head of the forex section told me there are thousands of those forms sent to the BoT every day and they are all filed eventually in the circular filing basket without anyone looking at them.  If you remit USD 50k plus in either direction you have to submit an extra layer of documentation which is probably actually glanced at in the BoT.  However, the banks are quite happy to remit several hundred USD at a time, as long as these forms are completed and all boxes look as if they have been ticked. For things like remittance of principle and interest on foreign loans they have to accept English language loan docs and the bank staff usually can't be bothered to look at them at all, even for up to a million USD.

 

Bottom line is this is something to bear in mind if you have to remit funds urgently but I would not make a habit of it. There are ways to do it using your ID card, if it is a regular non-urgent thing. It is not the BoT's job to sniff out dual ditizens of which are now many thousands residing in Thailand, mainly look krung. It might only become an issue, if you became the subject of a money laundering investigation which is not going to happen if you remit small amounts.

Flying under the radar is not what I usually do. Anyway, thanks for your advice and I'll take it under consideration.