Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[jaiyenyen]

Can anyone tell me the cost of Thai citizenship with Thai wife please.

[david143]

Just now, jaiyenyen said:

Can anyone tell me the cost of Thai citizenship with Thai wife please.

Fees is only 5000THB Govt Fees
Documents .
Passport
Work permit
Salary
PND 91
Marriage certificate
Donation 5000
80000 THB letter from Bank,
Thai Wife ID
Tabien Baan
kids Birth Certificate.
Other company documents depend on your Job or Business.

 

[Neeranam]

31 minutes ago, jaiyenyen said:

Can anyone tell me the cost of Thai citizenship with Thai wife please.

The whole process probably cost me about 50,000 baht but that was for the following

 

 - 5,000 baht fee

- 7,000 baht charity

- 40,000 for flights to Bkk, hotels, translation, getting stuff legalized in the Uk, etc

 

Costs of the Thai wife are considerably more ????

 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

The whole process probably cost me about 50,000 baht but that was for the following

 

 - 5,000 baht fee

- 7,000 baht charity

- 40,000 for flights to Bkk, hotels, translation, getting stuff legalized in the Uk, etc

 

Costs of the Thai wife are considerably more ????

 

 

Another 1,000 baht for the naturalisation certificate.  Still pretty good value.  I was paying 5,400 baht a year just to endorse my PR books with the hassle of the trips to CW to get it done, not to mention work permit renewals.  If you apply for the old age allowance when you hit 60, which only takes a few minutes at the district office, you recover the fees in 10 months at the current rate of 600 baht a month.  You don't even have to be retired or unemployed to collect it and it just comes in every month without doing anything. 

[Neeranam]

44 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

Another 1,000 baht for the naturalisation certificate.  Still pretty good value.  I was paying 5,400 baht a year just to endorse my PR books with the hassle of the trips to CW to get it done, not to mention work permit renewals.  If you apply for the old age allowance when you hit 60, which only takes a few minutes at the district office, you recover the fees in 10 months at the current rate of 600 baht a month.  You don't even have to be retired or unemployed to collect it and it just comes in every month without doing anything. 

I think it was 500 bht for that certificate. 

 

Oh yes, excellent value. 

 

Interesting, I thought that 600 baht would be from the Pragan Sangkom. Is it deposited straight into your bank account? 

 

 

 

[jaiyenyen]

Thanks guys.

You've confirmed what I thought.

My wife came back from dropping the papers off and said we had to take 55,000 baht with us next time.

The officer had written the amount on one of the papers and she must have misread it. ????.

I'll have to buy her some new glasses.

[david143]

1 minute ago, jaiyenyen said:

Thanks guys.

You've confirmed what I thought.

My wife came back from dropping the papers off and said we had to take 55,000 baht with us next time.

The officer had written the amount on one of the papers and she must have misread it. ????.

I'll have to buy her some new glasses.

Tea Money

[david143]

@Neeranam Guru
Your MOI interview was in September 2019 ?

October 2019 there was no Meeting.
Meeting was on November 12th 2019 And Then ( Anyone in Thread was in this Meeting ? )
Meeting was on December 17th 2019 (Brother Yankee and Myself was in this Meeting )

so can we assume that we will be in next RG ?
What is your suggestion brother.

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Another 1,000 baht for the naturalisation certificate.  Still pretty good value.  I was paying 5,400 baht a year just to endorse my PR books with the hassle of the trips to CW to get it done, not to mention work permit renewals.  If you apply for the old age allowance when you hit 60, which only takes a few minutes at the district office, you recover the fees in 10 months at the current rate of 600 baht a month.  You don't even have to be retired or unemployed to collect it and it just comes in every month without doing anything. 

Would you still get that if you were drawing a social security pension?

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, david143 said:

@Neeranam Guru
Your MOI interview was in September 2019 ?

October 2019 there was no Meeting.
Meeting was on November 12th 2019 And Then ( Anyone in Thread was in this Meeting ? )
Meeting was on December 17th 2019 (Brother Yankee and Myself was in this Meeting )

so can we assume that we will be in next RG ?
What is your suggestion brother.

Yes, it was Sep 2019. 

 

I expect you will be in the RG very soon. It's good to see that there was an announcement for women last week, which shows they haven't all caught Covid. There is nothing you can do but wait, I'm afraid. try not to check the RG every 10 min, like I did, a watched kettle never boils. 

[Kudos]

On 5/18/2007 at 11:17 PM, sbk said:

Just curious, where are you registered at? I was told by the Police in Bangkok that I needed to apply for citizenship in the province my husbands house registration is located in. But, unfortunately, Surat Thani police are clueless. I was hoping to be able to try Bangkok, so am curious if you are Bangkok resident or not?

I just started the process, i live in Pattaya and had to go to Chonburi. So you need to start in the province you have your yellow book in.

 

[yankee99]

31 minutes ago, Kudos said:

I just started the process, i live in Pattaya and had to go to Chonburi. So you need to start in the province you have your yellow book in.

 

Chonburi told my wife they've never had a successful candidate. I suggest you move your book to bkk

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Would you still get that if you were drawing a social security pension?

 

I think so.  The rules make you ineligible if you have a government pension or stipend, like the old lady who had to repay the allawance because she had a military  stipend because her son was blown up by accident while in the army.  I checked the rules some time back and didn't see Social Security in the list of disqualifications and think this is logical because it is not income paid directly by the government.  It is income derived from the contributions paid by yourself and your employer. And anyway, a salary is not a disqualification as long as it is not government income.  It is not a lot but hey it's free and easy to get for the cost of a trip to your local DO.  After the coup the government mooted the idea of scrapping it and introducing a means tested allowance instead.  Then they offered certificates of gratitude for people who volunteered not to claim it, which would probably be more complicated to get than the allowance.   I don't agree with means tested allowances as they make beggars of people and the means testing for government hand outs is, in my opinion, done in a disgusting way usually by haughty BAAC officers who make abitrary decisions based on oral evidence about some poor sod who has spent half a day queueing outside the branch in the sun and gets turned down on a whlm.  I have seen them queuing up in the street.  Claiming the allowance is my small protest against means testing and the small minded attempts to abolish the allowance.  Anyway I have paid enough tax in Thailand and don't it as freeloading.

[onthemoon]

19 hours ago, Arkady said:

If you apply for the old age allowance when you hit 60, which only takes a few minutes at the district office, you recover the fees in 10 months at the current rate of 600 baht a month.  You don't even have to be retired or unemployed to collect it and it just comes in every month without doing anything. 

 

I'm not 60 yet, but getting there. I understand the pension I receive for having paid the maximum contribution into Social Security since it was introduced is in the range of THB 6,000/month.

 

I think you are talking about something else here. Anybody (who has paid in) can get THB 600/month? Even if still working? Does that have any influence on the pension? - If you have a link where I can read this up (in Thai is OK), that would be great. Thanks.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

 

I'm not 60 yet, but getting there. I understand the pension I receive for having paid the maximum contribution into Social Security since it was introduced is in the range of THB 6,000/month.

 

I think you are talking about something else here. Anybody (who has paid in) can get THB 600/month? Even if still working? Does that have any influence on the pension? - If you have a link where I can read this up (in Thai is OK), that would be great. Thanks.

 

It is not Social Security.  It is เบี้ยยังชีพผู้สูงอายุ an old age living allowance which is on a par with the disability allowance and is was introduced by the Abhisit government in 2009 for all Thai citizens over 60.  Here are some relevant documents in Thai. The first is the original RG announcement showing the qualifications which are still the same but the original amount was 500 baht for all.  The second shows the current levels which are 600 over 60, 700 over 70, 800 over 80 and 1,000 over 90. 

 

https://www.dop.go.th/download/laws/regulation_th_20160712093327_1.pdf

 

http://www.oic.go.th/FILEWEB/CABINFOCENTER18/DRAWER089/GENERAL/DATA0000/00000216.PDF

 

I forgot to mention a slight wrinkle in the application process which has a window of only 1-30 November to apply in the year before your are 60 and you got paid starting not on the actual date of 60th birthday but in October the following year. If you miss the window, you have to wait till the following year.  I am not sure, if the window is still the same.  Applications for Bkk are at district offices but in the provinces you have to apply at local thesabans or Or Bor Tors.  You only need to re-register if you change address but, if you don't, it probably continues to get paid into your bank account.

 

Ironically when it was introduced with Abhisit as PM and signatory of the announcement there was a wonderful old British lady who had had Thai nationality for over 50 years as she was married to one of Abhisit's uncles or a great uncle and had the Vejjajiva surname, who applied in Lampang, but was turned down by a nasty racist local official (probably a red shirt) on the basis she was not a real Thai due to her white face.  She was really upset and had a letter published in the Bkk Post about it.  I am sure Abhisit must have choked on his toast that morning and I expect he sorted it out for her but there was no follow up report. 

 

Re Social Security, one of the reasons I was adamant about applying for this was because I was kicked out of Social Security in a way I thought was very unfair to Thais and non-Thais alike.  In the earlier years of Social Security I was excluded at first because the company had less than 50 employees and then because I was a director.  Finally I worked as a grunt and joined the scheme but because I changed jobs at 60 I was not allowed to remain in the scheme at my new job, although they said it would have been no problem, if I had stayed at the old job. So I was prevented from contributing the full 15 years to be eligible for the SS pension and had to hassle them to get my contributions returned without interest. There is no logic to this other than the government's desire to avoid paying the SS pensions, despite the fact that they are a material source of income to the majority of Thais that are lucky enough to receive them and many people may have only been allowed to join late like me but continue working over 60 and need to change jobs. 

 

SS from the get go was always going to be a burden on  government finances once at some point after the first pensions became payable a couple of years ago. Due to the incompetence with which the contributions have been invested plus, of course, huge corruption, they were never going to efficiently match assets with liabilities.  COVID has accelerated the arrival of that day and now it is already a huge burden on government finances, the extent of which has yet to be revealed.  Contributions have been drastically reduced by mass unemployment and temporary reductions in monthly reductions while the SS has been burdened with the special unemployment benefits due to COVID.  It is now clearly already technically insolvent and surviving on government debt.  Nevertheless, I believe it is extremely unlikely that the government will ever let SS default on its pension liabilities.  That would create an unsurvivable backlash. However, I equally don't see the government, particularly this one that prefers means tested hand outs, rushing to increase SS pensions and benefits.     

 

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

 

I'm not 60 yet, but getting there. I understand the pension I receive for having paid the maximum contribution into Social Security since it was introduced is in the range of THB 6,000/month.

 

I think you are talking about something else here. Anybody (who has paid in) can get THB 600/month? Even if still working? Does that have any influence on the pension? - If you have a link where I can read this up (in Thai is OK), that would be great. Thanks.

This may help:  https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2016-2017/asia/thailand.html

 

I too will draw the Social Security pension when I retire in 18 months and it will be @ Baht 5,600/month.  I have been paying in since before the pension scheme was adopted.  

[onthemoon]

6 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

It is not Social Security.  It is เบี้ยยังชีพผู้สูงอายุ an old age living allowance which is on a par with the disability allowance and is was introduced by the Abhisit government in 2009 for all Thai citizens over 60.  Here are some relevant documents in Thai. The first is the original RG announcement showing the qualifications which are still the same but the original amount was 500 baht for all.  The second shows the current levels which are 600 over 60, 700 over 70, 800 over 80 and 1,000 over 90. 

 

https://www.dop.go.th/download/laws/regulation_th_20160712093327_1.pdf

 

http://www.oic.go.th/FILEWEB/CABINFOCENTER18/DRAWER089/GENERAL/DATA0000/00000216.PDF

 

I forgot to mention a slight wrinkle in the application process which has a window of only 1-30 November to apply in the year before your are 60 and you got paid starting not on the actual date of 60th birthday but in October the following year. If you miss the window, you have to wait till the following year.  I am not sure, if the window is still the same.  Applications for Bkk are at district offices but in the provinces you have to apply at local thesabans or Or Bor Tors.  You only need to re-register if you change address but, if you don't, it probably continues to get paid into your bank account.

 

Ironically when it was introduced with Abhisit as PM and signatory of the announcement there was a wonderful old British lady who had had Thai nationality for over 50 years as she was married to one of Abhisit's uncles or a great uncle and had the Vejjajiva surname, who applied in Lampang, but was turned down by a nasty racist local official (probably a red shirt) on the basis she was not a real Thai due to her white face.  She was really upset and had a letter published in the Bkk Post about it.  I am sure Abhisit must have choked on his toast that morning and I expect he sorted it out for her but there was no follow up report. 

 

Re Social Security, one of the reasons I was adamant about applying for this was because I was kicked out of Social Security in a way I thought was very unfair to Thais and non-Thais alike.  In the earlier years of Social Security I was excluded at first because the company had less than 50 employees and then because I was a director.  Finally I worked as a grunt and joined the scheme but because I changed jobs at 60 I was not allowed to remain in the scheme at my new job, although they said it would have been no problem, if I had stayed at the old job. So I was prevented from contributing the full 15 years to be eligible for the SS pension and had to hassle them to get my contributions returned without interest. There is no logic to this other than the government's desire to avoid paying the SS pensions, despite the fact that they are a material source of income to the majority of Thais that are lucky enough to receive them and many people may have only been allowed to join late like me but continue working over 60. 

 

SS from the get go was always going to be a burden on  government finances once at some point after the first pensions became payable a couple of years ago. Due to the incompetence with which the contributions have been invested plus, of course, huge corruption, they were never going to efficiently match assets with liabilities.  COVID has accelerated the arrival of that day and now it is already a huge burden on government finances, the extent of which has yet to be revealed.  Contributions have been drastically reduced by mass unemployment and temporary reductions in monthly reductions while the SS has been burdened with the special unemployment benefits due to COVID.  It is now clearly already technically insolvent and surviving on government debt.  Nevertheless, I believe it is extremely unlikely that the government will ever let SS default on its pension liabilities.  That would create an unsurvivable backlash. However, I equally don't see the government, particularly this one that prefers means tested hand outs, rushing to increase SS pensions and benefits.     

 

Thanks for the links, I have downloaded the PDFs and will read through them.

 

I have had no problems with Social Security. I have even received a return when I overpaid due to having two jobs (each with a work permit). 

 

Due to aging populations, it will be difficult to pay pensions, but that is the same the world over.

[onthemoon]

9 minutes ago, GarryP said:

This may help:  https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2016-2017/asia/thailand.html

 

I too will draw the Social Security pension when I retire in 18 months and it will be @ Baht 5,600/month.  I have been paying in since before the pension scheme was adopted.  

 

Thanks, the links to the Thai Govt. websites are there when you scroll down. 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Thanks for the links, I have downloaded the PDFs and will read through them.

 

I have had no problems with Social Security. I have even received a return when I overpaid due to having two jobs (each with a work permit). 

 

Due to aging populations, it will be difficult to pay pensions, but that is the same the world over.

 

I think the best efforts have been made by countries like Singapore and New Zealand that have properly vested contributory national pension schemes.  The worst models are countries like the UK where there is no connection between the contributions and the pensions.  The contributions just go into current national revenues and the pensions are paid out of current expenses with no attempt to make one fund the other or to provide for better outcomes than absolutely basic for the pensioners.  The Thai SS in concept was supposed to be vested but has obviously failed in this already only a few years into its pension payments. It also only provides for the only most basic and inadequate outcome possible for the pensioners with increases based not on inflation but on government whim.  Large swathes of he population who work in the informal or agriculture sectors are excluded from the scheme.  It is better than what they had before, which was nothing, but only just.

 

One of the biggest problems I see in social security and healthcare provision is that there are two or three tier systems.  In pensions there is the generous government pension scheme for civil servants and state enterprise employees largely funded by the taxpayer.  In healthcare, there are three schemes: civil service, SS and gold card.  Since civil servants and their families are well taken care of on both counts, there is no incentive for senior mandarins to propose better schemes for the despised hoi polloi.  If there was only one government pension scheme and one healthcare scheme for everyone civil servants would be pushing like hell to improve the systems.   

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

This may help:  https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2016-2017/asia/thailand.html

 

I too will draw the Social Security pension when I retire in 18 months and it will be @ Baht 5,600/month.  I have been paying in since before the pension scheme was adopted.  

I didn't know you could get that much. I thought the maximum salary was 15,000 baht. 

One of my friends just applied and was told as he has worked over 15 years, he can't get the cash out lump sum, like I did. However, he got them to agree to his wife getting the amount when he dies. He was only quoted about 1500 a month. 

Last year, I turned 55 and got 160,000 baht; I bought a bitcoin fire the future. . 

[Arkady]

30 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I didn't know you could get that much. I thought the maximum salary was 15,000 baht. 

One of my friends just applied and was told as he has worked over 15 years, he can't get the cash out lump sum, like I did. However, he got them to agree to his wife getting the amount when he dies. He was only quoted about 1500 a month. 

Last year, I turned 55 and got 160,000 baht; I bought a bitcoin fire the future. . 

 

Good  call to cash out and put into bitcoin last year.  I thought it was 40% of maximum salary of the last few years, i.e. 6,000 a month but I haven't looked into it since I got kicked out. 

[GarryP]

 

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I didn't know you could get that much. I thought the maximum salary was 15,000 baht. 

One of my friends just applied and was told as he has worked over 15 years, he can't get the cash out lump sum, like I did. However, he got them to agree to his wife getting the amount when he dies. He was only quoted about 1500 a month. 

Last year, I turned 55 and got 160,000 baht; I bought a bitcoin fire the future. . 

I have paid in Baht 214,594, so I believe it would make more sense drawing the pension than cashing out,  assuming that they will continue to pay the pension after that sum has already been used.  It will pay me a pension of Baht5,500 for 39 months or 3 years and 5 months. Any payments after that period will be out of the government pocket, and I do not plan kicking the bucket until I'm into my eighties, so they will end up having to pay me considerably more. If I live until I am 80, they will have to pay me an additional 1,122,000 Baht, which is pretty good. 

 

Now having said that, I will probably find out that they will cut me off once my portion has been paid out.  

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

 

I have paid in Baht 214,594, so I believe it would make more sense drawing the pension than cashing out,  assuming that they will continue to pay the pension after that sum has already been used.  It will pay me a pension of Baht5,500 for 39 months or 3 years and 5 months. Any payments after that period will be out of the government pocket, and I do not plan kicking the bucket until I'm into my eighties, so they will end up having to pay me considerably more. If I live until I am 80, they will have to pay me an additional 1,122,000 Baht, which is pretty good. 

 

Now having said that, I will probably find out that they will cut me off once my portion has been paid out.  

 

Yes, it is a good deal, unless you can identify a stellar investment for the lump sum like Neeranam did.  That's why I was hacked off to be kicked out of SS. 

 

In the UK it is similar with the voluntary contributions to the state pension even though it is frozen, if you live in Thailand.  Paying several years of voluntary contributions worked out at a similar pay back period of about 3 years.  Of course you need to have enough contributions already to qualify and they only let you pay four years past contribution at a time.

 

[sas_cars]

6 hours ago, GarryP said:

 

I have paid in Baht 214,594, so I believe it would make more sense drawing the pension than cashing out,  assuming that they will continue to pay the pension after that sum has already been used.  It will pay me a pension of Baht5,500 for 39 months or 3 years and 5 months. Any payments after that period will be out of the government pocket, and I do not plan kicking the bucket until I'm into my eighties, so they will end up having to pay me considerably more. If I live until I am 80, they will have to pay me an additional 1,122,000 Baht, which is pretty good. 

 

Now having said that, I will probably find out that they will cut me off once my portion has been paid out.  

 

How do they calculate the monthly payment, which in your case it's 5xxx baht and more/month? sounds pretty good

[GarryP]

15 hours ago, sas_cars said:

 

How do they calculate the monthly payment, which in your case it's 5xxx baht and more/month? sounds pretty good

The pension benefit started in December 1998. You are entitled to a pension if you have paid in for a minimum of 180 months (15 Years).  For that period your pension is calculated based on 20% of the average of the last 60 months' salary, where the maximum salary is Baht 15,000. For each year after that 180 months, you are entitled to an additional 1.5% increase. I reached the 180 month minimum in December 2013. I have continued to work and will retire at the end of 2022, an additional 9 years. As a result, my pension will be as follows:

 

15,000 x (20% + (9 x 1.5%)) = 15,000 x 33.5% = 5,025

 

A little bit less than anticipated but not by much.  Still would be an excess of Baht 1,025,00, if, according the Social Security Act, they pay until I die. 

[onthemoon]

28 minutes ago, GarryP said:

The pension benefit started in December 1998. You are entitled to a pension if you have paid in for a minimum of 180 months (15 Years).  For that period your pension is calculated based on 20% of the average of the last 60 months' salary, where the maximum salary is Baht 15,000. For each year after that 180 months, you are entitled to an additional 1.5% increase. I reached the 180 month minimum in December 2013. I have continued to work and will retire at the end of 2022, an additional 9 years. As a result, my pension will be as follows:

 

15,000 x (20% + (9 x 1.5%)) = 15,000 x 33.5% = 5,025

 

A little bit less than anticipated but not by much.  Still would be an excess of Baht 1,025,00, if, according the Social Security Act, they pay until I die. 

Thanks for the formula!

[GarryP]

48 minutes ago, GarryP said:

The pension benefit started in December 1998. You are entitled to a pension if you have paid in for a minimum of 180 months (15 Years).  For that period your pension is calculated based on 20% of the average of the last 60 months' salary, where the maximum salary is Baht 15,000. For each year after that 180 months, you are entitled to an additional 1.5% increase. I reached the 180 month minimum in December 2013. I have continued to work and will retire at the end of 2022, an additional 9 years. As a result, my pension will be as follows:

 

15,000 x (20% + (9 x 1.5%)) = 15,000 x 33.5% = 5,025

 

A little bit less than anticipated but not by much.  Still would be an excess of Baht 1,025,00, if, according the Social Security Act, they pay until I die. 

If I were to cash out and invest the money, I would need to earn interest of 8% per year for 20 years to reach the same amount and not get to use any of that money in the interim. A guaranteed interest rate of 8% over  20 is not easy to find. Why not just go with the monthly pension, at least in my case, as unless I pop my clogs very soon, I will be getting paid money even after my investment has been used up and I get to use some of the money every month.   

 

Apologies for going off topic. 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

If I were to cash out and invest the money, I would need to earn interest of 8% per year for 20 years to reach the same amount and not get to use any of that money in the interim. A guaranteed interest rate of 8% over  20 is not easy to find. Why not just go with the monthly pension, at least in my case, as unless I pop my clogs very soon, I will be getting paid money even after my investment has been used up and I get to use some of the money every month.   

 

Apologies for going off topic. 

In 10 years, 5,000 baht will be worth nothing like it is today, due to deflation of Thai baht, like all FIAT currency, which I believe is over 10% p.a in the case of the US, and could easily end up like Venezuela or Argentina. I would at least hedge your investment with something else(Bitcoin/gold, etc).  I have picked my horse in the race and have no regrets. 

 

 

[qualtrough]

Someone here reported that the King had signed off on the names from the Sept 2020 MOI interviews. I have been told by my SB officer that my name is awaiting the King's signature, but I have not had any further or official information. Does anyone know if the information about the King signing off on those is accurate?

 

Further question, and apologies as this has almost certainly been dealt with somewhere, but what is the usual time between the King signing off on the names and being called for the Loyalty Oath. 

 

Yes, I know. Patience. 

[Neeranam]

9 hours ago, qualtrough said:

Further question, and apologies as this has almost certainly been dealt with somewhere, but what is the usual time between the King signing off on the names and being called for the Loyalty Oath. 

As far as I know, it is usually immediate. 

I called SB and they said he hadn't signed, then a couple of days later they called back saying he had and I was called for Oath.