Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

What you have to bear in mind is  that Chinese and Indians make up probably well over half the applications. Their governments are likely to take prompt action when an embassy receives a letter from the MoI informing them that one of their nationals has received Thai nationality, which was also a new requirement in 2009.  Same for Koreans, Singaporeans, Malaysians, Japanese et al, although they apply in much smaller numbers.  So it amounts to a good way of getting over governments to do the job for you.

[Big Guns]

How long after interview with MOI does it take to find out if you have been successful?

[skippybangkok]

How long after interview with MOI does it take to find out if you have been successful?

Which one - the one in McDonalds just after meeting SB, or the later committee one

The McDonalds one was about 2 months , but the committee is many many years - about 6 in my case

Technically they don't say "approved", the announcement in the royal gazette is the green light to go ahead

The key point is really taking the oath, as from that point onwards it's mainly waiting for signatures and gazette

You can pretty much say "ok" after the oath

Be prepared for about 9-12 after the oath until you have your ID in your hands

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[Big Guns]

I had the MOI with the 17 person panel. How long to the oath after this? Thanks for any responses.

[nickcar]

 In my case 

Final interview 29 September 2015
Final review 23 November 2015
Swearing got it 25 April 2016

 

still waiting for gazette,  no idea how much longer. Would love to know if the February lot got it yet. 

[GarryP]

On 6/24/2016 at 7:25 PM, GarryP said:

  On 5/16/2016 at 0:44 PM, dbrenn said:

  On 5/15/2016 at 7:57 PM, GarryP said:

No. It is a typed up copy of the Royal Gazette in which you name appears. I understand but am not absolutely sure that it is something presented to each successful applicant as a formal souvenir.

I was told to keep my copy of the Royal Gazette, as evidence that may be asked for in the future, so it's more than a souvenir.

I still haven't been called to pick this document up yet. Has anyone from the February lot been called to pick up their yet?

I just called SB but they said they have not received our lot yet.

 

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I still had not heard anything from SB so tried calling my contact there but the number was no longer in use. I then called the central number and was informed that no such document would be provided. As I already have my Thai ID card there is nothing for the police to provide. However, if I want such a document as a souvenir, they will make inquiries and get back to me. I left my number so will wait and see.

 

  

[aidenai]

1 hour ago, Big Guns said:

I had the MOI with the 17 person panel. How long to the oath after this?

 

In my case, 1 year 10 months 29 days.

 

From Oath to Naturalisation Certificate was 4 months 13 days.

[skippybangkok]

After big committee - about 1 year


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[Big Guns]

I thought I'd let people on this thread know about my experience with the MOI interview. Firstly be prepared for a wait. I arrived at 8.30 am and was interviewed at 12pm. Secondly prepare for questions about where you met you're wife, when you came to Thailand, where you've worked and what you do. Also prepare for why you want Thai citizenship (although I wasn't asked this).Thirdly if your Thai is not very strong (like mine) don't worry and don't get stressed by the admin people at the centre who say that you must be able to communicate effectively in Thai. Lastly the interview panel is made up of 17 people, with the desks set out in a U shape with you and your wife at one end and the chairman at the other and everyone is equipped with microphones.  I found this quite daunting.

 

A the moment the admin people were talking about the Royal Gazette in 4 months but I think they mean the oath of allegiance. I hope my experience helps others  who are about to face the MOI interview. My final tip would be to try to relax  as I was a nervous wreck.

 

I felt really sorry for one chap who had to sing the national anthem who'd been back multiple times and failed again

[skippybangkok]

Congrats with you interview - maybe you are allergic to interviews    I did not find it too daunting.

 

Had one guy to my left trying to ask a few smart ass questions, gave him a clear but polite answer which made him shut up with the rest of the committee left with a clear smirk on their face. He was trying to nit pick and sat benign for the rest of the meeting.

 

After a few mins they drifted totally off topic asking my insights to topics which I have expertise in which had nothing to do with my application, and towards the end there was plenty of laughter. I think my case was clear / no brainer, so they chilled out.  

 

So don't over worry ! 

 

 

 

[skippybangkok]

Ps - plan for about another 1 year before have the ID in your hands - slowwwwww


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[aidenai]

Ps - plan for about another 1 year before have the ID in your hands - slowwwwww


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2 years 3 months 25 days in my case. From DOPA-interview until Thai National ID card.

[samran]

9 hours ago, Big Guns said:

I thought I'd let people on this thread know about my experience with the MOI interview. Firstly be prepared for a wait. I arrived at 8.30 am and was interviewed at 12pm. Secondly prepare for questions about where you met you're wife, when you came to Thailand, where you've worked and what you do. Also prepare for why you want Thai citizenship (although I wasn't asked this).Thirdly if your Thai is not very strong (like mine) don't worry and don't get stressed by the admin people at the centre who say that you must be able to communicate effectively in Thai. Lastly the interview panel is made up of 17 people, with the desks set out in a U shape with you and your wife at one end and the chairman at the other and everyone is equipped with microphones.  I found this quite daunting.

 

A the moment the admin people were talking about the Royal Gazette in 4 months but I think they mean the oath of allegiance. I hope my experience helps others  who are about to face the MOI interview. My final tip would be to try to relax  as I was a nervous wreck.

 

I felt really sorry for one chap who had to sing the national anthem who'd been back multiple times and failed again

Well done. Very much our experience.

 

have related this already but after my wife's interview we went down the lift with one of the committee members who left early. She basically said that if they didn't ask any tricky questions then not to worry. 

 

FWIW she interviewed and was announced a citizen 9 months later. All under this government. Realise the process for women is a little different but thought I'd let you know. 

[Arkady]

On 8/30/2016 at 11:08 AM, Big Guns said:

I thought I'd let people on this thread know about my experience with the MOI interview. Firstly be prepared for a wait. I arrived at 8.30 am and was interviewed at 12pm. Secondly prepare for questions about where you met you're wife, when you came to Thailand, where you've worked and what you do. Also prepare for why you want Thai citizenship (although I wasn't asked this).Thirdly if your Thai is not very strong (like mine) don't worry and don't get stressed by the admin people at the centre who say that you must be able to communicate effectively in Thai. Lastly the interview panel is made up of 17 people, with the desks set out in a U shape with you and your wife at one end and the chairman at the other and everyone is equipped with microphones.  I found this quite daunting.

 

A the moment the admin people were talking about the Royal Gazette in 4 months but I think they mean the oath of allegiance. I hope my experience helps others  who are about to face the MOI interview. My final tip would be to try to relax  as I was a nervous wreck.

 

I felt really sorry for one chap who had to sing the national anthem who'd been back multiple times and failed again

 

According to regulations, the interview panel, aka the small committee, is comprised of 15 people but there are others in the room who are not official members of the committee.

 

Apart from the singing, the interview for those who apply under their own steam on the basis of PR instead of being married to a Thai is significantly harder. Obviously you have to do it alone and it took about 15 minutes in my case.  Apart from questions about my life and status in Thailand, I was asked questions about my views on the Thai economy, inflation and the price of gold and relatively difficult stuff like that, although I got the sense it was more because of the nature of my work than an effort to catch me out.  People who are married to foreigners can expect questions about their integration into Thai society and motivation for wanting Thai citizenship, although that was not my case as I already had a Thai wife but we had not been married long enough for me to get exemption from singing etc.

 

Knowledge of the Thai language is required by the Nationality Act but those with Thai wives have been given exemption from that requirement since 2008.  Thus the interview for those married to Thais is only about 5 minutes and your wife is present and allowed to help.  As you mentioned, they are without mercy regarding the singing test for those without Thai spouses.  Most of those that fail the singing usually have bad spoken Thai and oral comprehension too but the singing is probably the acid test that determines whether they get through or not, as it is easy for the committee to agree on pass or fail over that, thus saving them time.

[bark]

On 13/8/2559 at 0:54 PM, Arkady said:

The new constitution repeats the clause about Thai citizenship that was in the 2015 draft that got rejected by the NRC. 

 

Section 39  No person of Thai nationality shall be deported or prohibited from entering the Kingdom.
Revocation of Thai nationality acquired by birth of a person shall not be permitted.

 

The first sentence is nothing new.  It has been in the last several constitutions. This is the clause you should quote to those simpleton immigration officers who try to refuse entry on their Thai passports to dual national Thai wives and children on the grounds that they have blank Thai passports issued abroad.  

 

The second sentence has never appeared in a Thai constitution before, nor has there ever been any reference to acquisition or revocation of Thai citizenship.  Since the constitution outranks statutory laws, it clears up the ambiguity in the Nationality Act regarding Thais who naturalise as aliens and the confusion caused by the wording of Section 14 of the Nationality Act which many, including somewhat disingenuously some Interior Ministry officials in the Nationality Section,  have wrongly interpreted as meaning that half Thai children have to surrender their Thai nationality at the age of 20 or risk having it revoked, if they choose to retain foreign nationality.  Actually Section 14 provides the right but not the obligation to renounce Thai citizenship in these circumstances.

 

Interestingly Section 39 of the new constitution also would appear to contradict the Nationality Act which allows for revsocation of citizenship from those who are Thai through birth in the Kingdom to two foreign parents (since 1972 both parents must have permanent residence at the time of birth).  These Thais were traditionally the main targets for revocation of Thai citizenship and have accounted for nearly 100% of cases announced in the Royal Gazette to my knowledge. The only other revocation announcements I have seen have been of women who adopted their husbands' Thai nationality under Section 9 of the Nationality Act.  For them the only grounds for revocation are lying in the original application or offences against morality (only seen following conviction of a serious offence such as drug trafficking in Thailand or overseas).   That will leave naturalised Thais now as the only citizens that can lose their Thai nationality for maintaining excessive interest (undefined) in their former nationality or residing abroad for 5 years without maintaining residence in the Kingdom in addition to lying in their application or for offences against morality.  Obviously the original purpose of this measure was to control the vast numbers of Chinese immigrants who obtained Thai nationality through birth in Thailand to Chinese parents and maintained Chinese nationality and cultural identity (before China banned dual nationality in the 70s).   Many Chinese Thais lost their Thai citizenship for spending more than 5 years in China and in the Cold War, many found themselves separated from family in Thailand for 30 years,  as they were denied visas as well.  These revocations involving Chinese and Indian names, as well as one Brit, have continued until the late 2000s. 

 

There is no recorded case of which I am aware of a naturalised Thai or a Thai naturalised as an alien losing their Thai nationality involuntarily since 1965.  Prior to the 1965 Nationality Act prohibitions on dual citizenship were more explicit and there were cases of Thais having their citizenship revoked for naturalising as aliens, not to mention the most common cause which used to be women who married aliens and lost their Thai nationality automatically (as also happen in the UK, US and other Western countries).  Naturalised Thais used to often surrender their Thai citizenship voluntarily in order to recover their original nationalities when they returned home to counties like the UK that used to strictly prohibit dual nationality (until 1948 in the case of the UK).

Hard to keep track; as they change the constitution every five years or so.

[regedit]

I'm in a yellow book which was issued in Sattahip for a property that is between Sattahip and Pattaya. Would I apply at the Police HQ in Pattaya ? Does anyone have any experience of using Pattaya as an application place ? Thanks.

[GarryP]

28 minutes ago, Arkady said:

 

According to regulations, the interview panel, aka the small committee, is comprised of 15 people but there are others in the room who are not official members of the committee.

 

Apart from the singing, the interview for those who apply under their own steam on the basis of PR instead of being married to a Thai is significantly harder. Obviously you have to do it alone and it took about 15 minutes in my case.  Apart from questions about my life and status in Thailand, I was asked questions about my views on the Thai economy, inflation and the price of gold and relatively difficult stuff like that, although I got the sense it was more because of the nature of my work than an effort to catch me out.  People who are married to foreigners can expect questions about their integration into Thai society and motivation for wanting Thai citizenship, although that was not my case as I already had a Thai wife but we had not been married long enough for me to get exemption from singing etc.

 

Knowledge of the Thai language is required by the Nationality Act but those with Thai wives have been given exemption from that requirement since 2008.  Thus the interview for those married to Thais is only about 5 minutes and your wife is present and allowed to help.  As you mentioned, they are without mercy regarding the singing test for those without Thai spouses.  Most of those that fail the singing usually have bad spoken Thai and oral comprehension too but the singing is probably the acid test that determines whether they get through or not, as it is easy for the committee to agree on pass or fail over that, thus saving them time.

The problem is that if you are applying based on marriage to a Thai woman, if you do not have Thai language ability you will not be able to take the general knowledge test which is in Thai. You would, thus, probably not be able to score the minimum 50 points needed to qualify, unless you also held a PR. As you pointed out previously in great detail, it is a points based system, with points awarded for a variety of things, including language proficiency, qualifications, knowledge of Thailand, income, and PR (if you have it), etc.  

 

BTW my last interview before the small committee (I took two), was nearer 15 minutes, but I understand this was an exception rather than the rule. 

 

PS I will stop following up with SB on the previously promised typed up copy of the Royal Gazette. I have been informed again that it will not be forthcoming. I assume when it comes to renewing my ID card in 8 years there will be no problem simply using the documents I already have in hand.   

[Big Guns]

I have very little Thai language ability. I didn't ask where my points came from and I didn't have PR. I do have a degree plus a Masters degree, plus professional qualifications, I guess the rest must be a combination of occupation, age etc. I wasn't asked to take a general knowledge test in Thai. In my interview with Special Branch and NIA I mainly spoke English. My occupation being conducted in English and my wife being fluent in English has meant that I haven't needed to learn Thai apart from things needed as part of the regular daily routine. I'm not proud of it but lack of need and a poor ability at foreign languages has meant that my Thai language knowledge is very basic. I'll keep everyone posted and maybe my story might give some hope and encouragement to those of us who are yet to master Thai.

[Arkady]

On 9/2/2016 at 10:25 PM, Big Guns said:

I have very little Thai language ability. I didn't ask where my points came from and I didn't have PR. I do have a degree plus a Masters degree, plus professional qualifications, I guess the rest must be a combination of occupation, age etc. I wasn't asked to take a general knowledge test in Thai. In my interview with Special Branch and NIA I mainly spoke English. My occupation being conducted in English and my wife being fluent in English has meant that I haven't needed to learn Thai apart from things needed as part of the regular daily routine. I'm not proud of it but lack of need and a poor ability at foreign languages has meant that my Thai language knowledge is very basic. I'll keep everyone posted and maybe my story might give some hope and encouragement to those of us who are yet to master Thai.

 

As mentioned before, you are legally exempted from having knowledge of the Thai language because you have a Thai wife, under Section 11.4  the  Nationality Act, as amended in 2008.  You can get enough points, if you have very good scores on age & education, security of profession and personality, even if you score zero on Thai language (max 15),. general knowledge (max 10) and residence (max 20 which requires PR for 10 years), although most people will find it quite difficult, if they are not in the optimum age group and don't have a PhD or masters.   If your wife interviews well and does a good job prompting you in the MoI interview, you will probably get through, since they won't have any legal grounds for rejecting you.  I have never heard of anyone getting through that couldn't communicate in Thai at all but perhaps that is because most don't dare apply.  Best of luck in your application and keep us posted.

[subi2014]

Any one know how much time from moi interview to oath to naturalization ?


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[subi2014]

Any news of the applicants that were interviewed in May 2016


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[Andrew Eldritch]

On 9/2/2016 at 3:52 PM, regedit said:

I'm in a yellow book which was issued in Sattahip for a property that is between Sattahip and Pattaya. Would I apply at the Police HQ in Pattaya ? Does anyone have any experience of using Pattaya as an application place ? Thanks.

 

I also live in Chonburi province and am trying to apply for citizenship.

 

The special branch in Bangkok have told me I must apply at the provincial police HQ in Chonburi city. This is consistent with the information on the ministry of foreign affairs website and the accounts of other people on this forum and elsewhere that reside in the provinces. 

 

However, the Chonburi city police HQ have told my wife and I that they do not accept applications for citizenship and that this must be done in Bangkok. My wife has tried to explain what is stated on the government website and what has been explained by the Bangkok police, but the reception desk staff at Chonburi police HQ are adamant that citizenship applications are submitted only in Bangkok and that they do not have application forms or an officer tasked with handling citizenship applications at their police station.

 

Please share your experiences about applying in Chonburi on this forum or by PM as I would appreciate any advice you can share. I am sure there is a officer at Chonburi that can take citizenship applications, but all my attempts to find out who this is and how I can contact him/her have been unsuccessful.

 

 

 

[The Old Bull]

On 5/18/2007 at 10:52 PM, Naam said:

you are one lucky bastard!

The over 70 line is shorter

[aidenai]

3 hours ago, Andrew Eldritch said:

Please share your experiences about applying in Chonburi

 

Number 69 of the on 28 January 2016 for Thai citizenship approved foreigners had his address in Chonburi province. However, he might have applied years and years ago and application acceptations in Chonburi might have changed since then.

[Arkady]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:59 AM, Andrew Eldritch said:

 

I also live in Chonburi province and am trying to apply for citizenship.

 

The special branch in Bangkok have told me I must apply at the provincial police HQ in Chonburi city. This is consistent with the information on the ministry of foreign affairs website and the accounts of other people on this forum and elsewhere that reside in the provinces. 

 

However, the Chonburi city police HQ have told my wife and I that they do not accept applications for citizenship and that this must be done in Bangkok. My wife has tried to explain what is stated on the government website and what has been explained by the Bangkok police, but the reception desk staff at Chonburi police HQ are adamant that citizenship applications are submitted only in Bangkok and that they do not have application forms or an officer tasked with handling citizenship applications at their police station.

 

Please share your experiences about applying in Chonburi on this forum or by PM as I would appreciate any advice you can share. I am sure there is a officer at Chonburi that can take citizenship applications, but all my attempts to find out who this is and how I can contact him/her have been unsuccessful.

 

 

 

 

Certainly people have been successful applying in Chonburi in the past.  I believe the application has to be made through Special Branch at the Chonburi Provincial Police HQ.  You might ask Special Branch in Bangkok if they can put you in touch with their colleagues there.  If Chonburi SB refuse to process your application, or you can't even identify the person responsible, your only option may be to get on a tabien baan in Bangkok, as many applicants have had to do before you, including the OP of this thread.

[Big Guns]

I applied in Bangkok and had to be on a tabien baan in BKK despite having a work permit in Rayong as my lawyer told me it was the better option. You might have some issues in Bangkok also with the tabien baan as they argue that you're work permit isn't in Bangkok and this cause me a headache

[aidenai]

I applied in Bangkok and had to be on a tabien baan in BKK despite having a work permit in Rayong as my lawyer told me it was the better option. You might have some issues in Bangkok also with the tabien baan as they argue that you're work permit isn't in Bangkok and this cause me a headache

I don't think that working and living in the same city, town or province is a requirement when applying for Thai citizenship.

I had my tabien baan in Bangkok but place of work in a southern province.

[Big Guns]

It's not a requirement but often officials in this country interpret things very differently hence at one office in Bangkok they completely refused to put me on a tabien baan and another where my lawyer had connections allowed it (and even they weren't happy). Its a forum and all I can give is my personal experience, don't expect uniformity when dealing with Thai officials.

[regedit]

On 15/09/2016 at 2:13 PM, aidenai said:

I don't think that working and living in the same city, town or province is a requirement when applying for Thai citizenship.

I had my tabien baan in Bangkok but place of work in a southern province.

 

There's a section in your work permit for your home address. Probably best that this matches your tabien baan. And if asked why you live in one province but work in another, just say that you stay in hotels during the working week.

[aidenai]

And if asked why you live in one province but work in another, just say that you stay in hotels during the working week.

If they ask me, I will.

Thanks for the advice. Cheers.