What Provinces Accept "Monthly Ave. [ Mean ] Income Of THB 40k For 12 MNT. Extension Of Stay Based On Non-Imgrnt Visa Type "O" Given For Reason Of Visiting Thai Child?

[cleopatra2]

21 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

I found the following from ;

 

http://www.samutprakanimmigration.go.th/downloads/policy777-2551_en.pdf

 

Note ;

Translated by Tilleke &Gibbins

Revised by Legal Div. Royal Thai Police Headquarters

©2009 Tilleke &Gibbins International Ltd. All rights reserved

2.18

In the case of being a family member of a Thai national (applicable only to parents, spouse, children, adopted children, or spouse’s children):

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.

(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto;

or

(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse’s children, said children, adopted children, or spouse’s children must not be married, must live with the alien as part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age;

or

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year. For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis.

 

Remarks ;

 

1_

The phrase

"... average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month ..." :

is [ strictly speaking ]

an oxymoron

viz.

annual income IS HERE WRONGLY BEING DEFINED AS income per month

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_

The statement given to me by Thailand Immigration Bureau in official communication uses the likes of this phrase ;

 

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year"

 

2_1_

It would be better written as ;

 

2_1_1_

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

or

 

2_1_2_

"average income per month of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_

The word "average" is "critically positive for the applicant" / "damning for the refuter"

 

Note ;

I think it is reasonable, & universally accepted, to understand the word "average" here as specifically meaning "mean average".

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_1_

Ref.

2_1_1_

"average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

The word "average" here is an adjective

Moreover,- the adjective "average" modifies the phrasal noun ;

"income ... throughout the preceding 12 months".

 

And,- the adverb "monthly" simply explains "what type of average it is",

viz.

an average whereby the total is divided by the number of applicable months [ here it is 12 months ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

2_2_2_

Ref.

2_1_2_

"average income per month of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the preceding 12 months"

 

The word "average" here is an adjective

Moreover,- the adjective "average" modifies the phrasal noun ;

"income per month ... throughout the preceding 12 months".

 

And,- the noun-phrase "per month" simply explains "what type of average it is",

viz.

an average whereby the total is divided by the number of applicable months [ here it is 12 months ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Notes ;

 

A_

Emboldening of words, & phrases, are done by me

 

B_

Arguably ;

"monthly" / "per month" implies ;

the yearly income arrives to the applicant on "monthly / per month" basis.

 

In reality ;

Most people who get paid a pension "monthly / per month" get paid every 28 days.

 

Thus,- an applicant is very likely to have some instances of :

 

2 pensions arriving in same month

 

zero pension arriving in a particular month

 

And, so,- one can understand, & accept, yet another reason why the wise good-hearted government original creators of the wording "deliberately AND knowingly" use the word "average",

viz.

allow the Thai child to benefit from having their alien parent to be present in Thailand supporting them even if the parent gets zero income in a particular calender month but as "monthly average / average per month" receives THB 40k minimum per month over the 12 months preceding the application.

It is also described as average annual income on the Thai immigration website.      In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income
of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 

www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14714

If the website is correct then the position favours yourself.

 

 

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

To me it reads 

The income is not less than 40000 in a month from all sources added together, the average. In additio  This needs to be demonstrated throughout the year for every month.

 

If you interpret it as 40k from all sources added together, it is the SUM, the total of those payments and not the average. Well it was in O Level maths!

All these references to 'average' should read 'minimum', then there is no question or doubt about what is required.

Edited April 19, 2021 by KannikaP

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

I found the following from

That immigration order was rescinded in 2014 when immigration order 327/2557 was issued.

You can download it here. Police Order 327/2557 

I quoted clause 2.18 from it in an earlier post.

[node]

Joe, any chance for the link for the Thai version for this Police Order 327/2557? Might come in handy down the road.

[Our Man in the Tropics]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

If you interpret it as 40k from all sources added together, it is the SUM, the total of those payments and not the average. Well it was in O Level maths!

All these references to 'average' should read 'minimum', then there is no question or doubt about what is required.

 

The word "minimum" is not an obstacle ;

It only specifies that the average must be "equal or greater than" THB 40k

 

And,- for your clarification ;

Average =

"Total Income for all the preceding 12 Months [ 365 Days ] as a total period"

DIVIDED BY

12 [ divisor is 12 because of modifier "monthly" or "per month" modifying the "Income ... throughout the year / preceding 12 Months / 365 Days" ]

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Were the "Conditions & Criteria" for Consideration of an Alien's Stay ..." use the phrase "must always be Baht 40,000 minimum each Month",- then the mind-block from the refusing Thailand Immigration Official[s], & the refuters here,  would be justified.

And,- then there would be no purpose to use the word "average" either.

 

But,- the Police Orders :

 

use no such phrasing for the detriment of any of mine [ my child inter alia ], & Thailand society, inter alia

 

but rather clearly intend to achieve the civilizing result, in this specific case*, for the benefit of "the individuals pertinent to the circumstance [ especially the Thai child ]", & "Thailand societies locally, & Thailand society as a whole", & I guess, foreign jurisdictions for they to accordingly replicate [ Thailand, & Thai, love children, & set good example for other countries to emulate ], of ;

alien parent who is 50 years, or more old, & who has Non-Immigrant Visa Type "O" given for reason of visiting Thai child, having monthly average income of THB 40k throughout the preceding 12 months, staying in Thailand in parental relationship with the child.

 

*Other specific case apply also

Please read the Excerpt from ubonjoe's link which I quote in my next post.

 

[Our Man in the Tropics]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That immigration order was rescinded in 2014 when immigration order 327/2557 was issued.

You can download it here. Police Order 327/2557 

I quoted clause 2.18 from it in an earlier post.

 

Thank you, Joe, for  that ;

 

I note this excerpt ;

 

2.18 In the case of being a family member
of a Thai national (applicable only to
parents, spouse, children, adopted
children, or spouse’s children):
Each permission shall be granted for no
more than one year.

(1) The alien must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.
(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto: or
(4) In the case of children, adopted children, or spouse's children, said children,
adopted children, or spouse's children must not be married, must live with the alien as
part of the family, and must not be over 20 years of age except in case of the person
hereof is of illness or disability and cannot live without support of father or mother: or

Translated by Siam Translation for thaivisa.com. The translation of this document is for information purposes only.

(5) In the case of parents, the father or mother must maintain an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month throughout the year or must have
deposited funds of no less than Baht 400,000 to cover expenses for one year.
In case the father of mother requests to be under maintenance of children, the
age of father or mother must be 50 years of age or over.
For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of
Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a
case-by-case basis.
(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average
annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht
400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for
one year.

 

[KannikaP]

4 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

And,- for your clarification ;

Average =

"Total Income for all the preceding 12 Months [ 365 Days ] as a total period"

DIVIDED BY

12 [ divisor is 12 because of modifier "monthly" or "per month" modifying the "Income ... throughout the year / preceding 12 Months / 365 Days" ]

I personally do not need any clarification. I know what AVERAGE, TOTAL and DIVIDED mean.

[Our Man in the Tropics]

13 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I personally do not need any clarification. I know what AVERAGE, TOTAL and DIVIDED mean.

 

I did not mean that disparagingly ;

 

Rather,- I surprised that you, whom I note to be an intelligent poster in Thaivisa.com forum, also seemingly have the mind-block that some other intelligent interlocutors have ;

viz.

wrongly interpreting the conditions as obligating the Applicant to have "minumum" / "at least" THB 40k  A-L-W-A-Y-S  every month [ or every 28 days if you accept this distinction about the incremental periods ].

 

I perceive that the word "minimum" is what has created that mind-block.

And,- so I decided to go-back-to-basics ;

No harm in that when the need beckons.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Our Man in the Tropics

[KannikaP]

Just now, Our Man in the Tropics said:

 

I did not mean that disparagingly ;

 

Rather,- I surprised that you, whom I note to be an intelligent poster in Thaivisa.com forum, also seemingly have the mind-block that other intelligent interlocutors have ;

viz.

wrongly interpreting the conditions as obligating the Applicant to have "minumum" / "at least" THB 40k  A-L-W-A-Y-S  every month [ or every 28 days if you accept this distinction about the incremental periods ].

 

I perceive that the word "minimum" is what has created that mind-block.

And,- so I decided to go-back-to-basics ;

No harm in that when the need beckons.

Thank you for the compliment. But I do not understand what you are on about. It is SO SIMPLE. A minimum of 40k per month into Thailand. DONE.

[Our Man in the Tropics]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Thank you for the compliment. But I do not understand what you are on about. It is SO SIMPLE. A minimum of 40k per month into Thailand. DONE.

 

Perhaps re-read my 2 most recent posts to you until you do understand ;

Often works for me in overcoming a mind-block ;

 

Humility is an actual vaccine I do believe in.

So also is Self-Confidence [ not to be confused with Arrogance ]

Together,- they greatly help me in my learning.

 

As a reminder also ;

The Police Order wording does not state what you contend it means ;

If it did,- I suggest that it would use such phrases as ;

 

the Income per month must ALWAYS be THB 40k as minimum

 

the monthly Income must ALWAYS be THB 40k as minimum

 

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

Perhaps re-read my 2 most recent posts to you until you do understand

I tried that but still do not know what you  are on about, sorry.

I think there is an institution for the promotion of simple English.

[Our Man in the Tropics]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I tried that but still do not know what you  are on about, sorry.

I think there is an institution for the promotion of simple English.

 

I have sympathy for you encountering my writing style in this forum ;

But,- it is a necessary writing style.

 

I think part of my most recent post should be re-phrased thus ;

 

The Police Order wording does not state what you contend it means ;

If it did,- I suggest that it would use such phrases as ;

 

the Income per month must ALWAYS be per month THB 40k as minimum

 

the monthly Income must ALWAYS be per month THB 40k as minimum

 

But,- the Police Order allows the Income per month to be less than THB 40k, or Zero, per any one, or any other number less than 11, or all 11, TECHNICALLY SPEAKING [ but, of course, were the income not per 28 days, or per calendar month, or per quarter year,- surely the applicant would be applying on basis of THB 400k Savings ? ] during the preceding 12 months, so long as ;

 

the total income

DIVIDED BY

12

iS EQUAL OR GREATER THAN

4Ok.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Our Man in the Tropics

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

I have sympathy for you encountering my writing style in this forum ;

But,- it is a necessary writing style.

I have sympathy for you thinking you need to use such words, which many do not understand. Even the title of this thread was almost incomprehensible.

40k per calendar month is 40k per calendar month. Easy.

Edited April 19, 2021 by KannikaP

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I have sympathy for you thinking you need to use such words, which many do not understand. Even the title of this thread was almost incomprehensible.

40k per calendar month is 40k per calendar month. Easy.

 

The original meaning was that an extension required a minimum average income. That is still the meaning when using income letters from your embassy. When some embassies discontinued income letters, Immigration seems to have decided to completely change the requirements, without changing the wording in any significant way. Key changes:

1. Your income is now irrelevant, unless using a salary from working in Thailand. In particular, other forms of income earned in Thailand (on which you may be paying Thai tax) such as investment income do not qualify.
2. Leaving aside the possibility of working in Thailand, you must transfer at least 40,000 baht every calendar month into Thailand. This is true even when you are not in the country if you want to qualify for a subsequent extension.
3. Many of us have expenses in our home countries. Income letters allowed for this. You were not expected, for instance, to transfer money into Thailand that was needed for your international health insurance paid in home country.
4. Even if you were previously having some or all of your income deposited directly into a Thai bank account, it is arguably no longer safe to do so. A delay in payment could jeopardise your future extension. To be safe, you need to receive payments in your home country bank (where you presumably keep a buffer balance) and ensure a transfer is done under your full control early each month (allowing time to react should any problems arise with the transfer). Also, you may not be able to transfer money in the most economical way as you must ensure it is classed as an international transfer.

[treetops]

17 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

I have sympathy for you thinking you need to use such words . . . .

 

I don't.  Posting like a dick is neither funny or clever.

[ericthai]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:27 AM, Our Man in the Tropics said:

 

 

 

Following their carefully composed written communication of "Monthly Average Income over 12 Months",- are they not beholden to honor their "Core Values" towards it ?

 

e.g.

 

Oneness

 

Up-to-date with Universal Standards

 

Reliability [ & Trust ]

 

[ Competency ]

 

Overall Fairness

 

People Orientation

 

[ Service-Mindness ]

 

 

I put in brackets those Core Values which I view as not victim of the mind-block.

you're in the wrong country!

[Our Man in the Tropics]

 

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

I have sympathy for you thinking you need to use such words, which many do not understand.

 

My typical [ mode ] average vocabulary-simplicity count, throughout the year

IS LESS THAN

the typical average poster's typical vocabulary-simplicity count throughout the year.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Please realise that my approach is gaining progress on this issue ;

An issue which is a very serious matter for some alien parents & their children.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Our Man in the Tropics
Typo copy & paste

[KannikaP]

3 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

 

 

My typical [ mode ] average vocabulary-simplicity count, throughout the year

IS LESS THAN

the typical average poster's typical vocabulary-simplicity count throughout the year.

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Please realise that my approach is gaining progress on this issue ;

An issue which is a very serious matter for some alien parents & their children.

 

Please stop this bu..sh..

[Our Man in the Tropics]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

you must transfer at least 40,000 baht every calendar month into Thailand.

 

I had thought that this is a condition.

 

 

But,- I do not see it in :

 

rescinded Police Order 777/2551

 

replacement, & current, Police Order 138/2557

[CharlieH]

Reported post and responses removed.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

 

I had thought that this is a condition.

 

 

But,- I do not see it in :

 

rescinded Police Order 777/2551

 

replacement, & current, Police Order 138/2557

2019 order amending 138/2557 (2014)

2. 138-2557 (2019 )Supp Ev Income Eng.pdf

 

Evidence of income of father, mother or husband who is an alien which shows that throughout a year, an average income is not less than 40,000 baht month.

 

In Thai:  2. 138-2557 (2019) Thai.pdf

Edited April 19, 2021 by Tanoshi

[ubonjoe]

i have removed several posts replying to removed posts done earlier by another mod.

[CNX66]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:22 AM, BTB1977 said:

40,000 a month is hardly enough to take care of a family. I'm sure your girlfriend knows this. Are you working only part time? 

This is the most relevant question. And despite the many arguments and long statements from the OP I can only think; maybe get your energy or "wisdom" in making some extra money? 

 

If you have to take care of a family I assume you're above 20? If you can hardly make 40.000THB a month 'average' you have another issue. 

 

Thereby the 'average' or 'minimum average' of 40.000THB monthly or yearly divided by 12 is the lowest income requirement for this type of Visa I assume? That should make you think.

 

And please I don't want to be rude.

Edited April 20, 2021 by CNX66