Can't Lose Weight

[robblok]

4 hours ago, Brierley said:

Yep, I've done that too plus I put them all into a spreadsheet so that I can follow the history. Reading that history is like watching a frame by footage of a fighter jet hurtling into the ground, it makes interesting viewing but doesn't change the outcome. Here's part of that history:

 

DATE    KGS   FBS       A1C

Jun-10	77	98
Jan-11	77	97	5.4
May-11	77	97	5.4
Dec-11	80	95
Feb-12	85	94
Mar-12	84	94	5.1
May-12	83	87	4.9
Nov-12	83	105	5.4
Feb-13	82	111	5.5
Apr-13	77	102	5.5
Dec-13	78	97	5.1
Feb 14	79	100	5.3
Sep-14	84	100	5.3
Jan-16	85	103	5.6
Dec-16	84	94	5.6
Jul-17	84	101	5.6
Jul-17	83
Mar-18	85		5.9
Jul-18	84		5.8
Jun-19	87	98	6
Jan-20	86	98	6
Jul-20	84		5.9
Dec-20	86	99	5.8

 

Twice a year the endocrinologist would say, your numbers are fine. Then six months later she said, oh, you've got metabolic syndrome.

Was that while you ate low carb or not. I am not doing low carb and my FBS always around 80-88 and HB1A around 5.2.

 

You do know that extra muscle helps against insulin resistance ?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21778224/

 

Your weight increased while as you got older your muscle mass probably decreased no wonder your metabolic rate is not high.

 

Hope you can turn it around. 

 

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, BigStar said:

No, as I've always had plenty of motivation, my father having had a severe case of diabetes from a relatively early age. His was an anomalous case somehow connected to his military injuries. Hence, I never eat fruit loops or ice cream. Or miss either one; shocking, I know.

 

But just recently we had a poster learn of his prediabetes and it certainly helped his motivation. Wise, I'd say, but that's just me, as, of course, everyone's different. Couple of old friends, before they died betimes, stayed obese despite their diabetes and just took insulin shots before enjoying their ice cream. Yeah! So, even if you found out you do have prediabetes (it's often latent and asymptomatic), it may not help your motivation at all, and you'll have shown me, heh. Right on, man.

 

I'm quite surprised to learn that glucose tolerance tests are only administered to pregnant women. It seems not widely known, so you've uncovered some real news there. ????

 

So you think my problem is 'motivation' because I eat fruit loops and ice cream.

Could be but might not be. I don't eat fruit loops since I found out they were fattening. Please remember not everyone who wants to lose weight is an expert. Maybe you are somehow blowing yer own trumpet? I have lots of will power/motivation. 

Have you thought that some people have eating disorders? Motivation and will power have no use if this is the case. Similar to an alcoholic, who has a disease which can only be cured by finding a higher power.

 

Would you go to an overeaters anonymous meeting and tell people to get more motivation?

 

Some people can be heavy drinkers and quit without any problem, especially if something motivates them, like liver problems. Alcoholics can't stop on willpower alone, even if they are told they are going to die. I finally threw in the towel after 20 year of delirium tremens, jail cells, lost relationships, etc. Not quite there with fruit loops but I understand that these things may be a huge issue with you. 

 

Maybe fruit loops were filling the inner space in my soul that was yearning for fulfillment. 

[BigStar]

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

https://youtu.be/1cl2IX94GCI

 

Educate yourself

Please stop quoting that quack and causing so much time-wasting. Shredded here:

 

Science-Based Medicine, The McDougall Diet

 

Mark Sisson has an informed account of having stumbled into one of McDougall's "health and adventure" retreats in Costa Rica.

 

Quote

I watched at every meal as overweight, unhealthy people piled their plates with at least two pounds of bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, beans, desert cake, and a glass of fruit juice. Sometimes they went back for more. By my calculations these people were consuming 200 to 300 or more grams of (mostly simple) carbohydrates at each of three meals. There was no way these folks were going to lose fat on this trip. It was, in my view, a type 2 diabetes epidemic in-the-making.

      --My Escape from Vegan Island

 

For the budget-conscious, Breatharianism would be a lot cheaper and work faster. Breatharian couple claim they live a 'food-free' lifestyle and haven't felt hungry since 2008. 

 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

So you think my problem is 'motivation' because I eat fruit loops and ice cream.

Could be but might not be.

Being a little coy, aren't we? If it could, then why not see if you can find out a bit more and see what happens?

 

> I have lots of will power/motivation.

 

Oh. Now it can’t? Let’s decide one way or t’other, shall we? Now we have to wonder how the lots of will power/motivation disappeared into a tub of ice cream and then proceeded on down the gullet and into fat cells.

 

> Have you thought that some people have eating disorders? Motivation and will power have no use if this is the case.

I have, though you didn’t mention any advice learned from an endocrinologist. So I suppose it is possible you have, say, anorexia and merely imagine yourself overweight. Then, besides pretending to be pregnant to receive the OGTT, you’ll need a lot of other tests and likely a team: Treatment plans for eating disorders are tailored to individual needs. You will likely have a team of providers helping you, including doctors, nutritionists, nurses, and therapists.

We’ve gone far beyond the modest resources, that is, opinions, on TVF, however. Sounds a bit expensive but surely worth it in the long run. Good luck.

 

> Would you go to an overeaters anonymous meeting and tell people to get more motivation?

 

Why would I try? Their going to overeaters anonymous will already supply as much motivation as they can handle, and more. I wish them well.
 
> Some people can be heavy drinkers and quit without any problem, especially if something motivates them, like liver problems.

And your claim to have abandoned fruit loops seems to put you mostly into that category but still having a problem to quit entirely. It’s a bit like, I’d say, typical carb addiction before it turns into metabolic syndrome and chronic disease.

So then you’d agree with me that the learning of a possible pancreas problem, as with a liver problem, would indeed be motivating, after all. I dunno what you think you’re disagreeing with.

Now perhaps after fruit loops you’ve simply stepped up to Cheerios, but “a journey of a thousand miles” and all that.

> . . . I understand that these things may be a huge issue with you.
 

Have you found anyone who believes that eating sugary junk is helping you towards your goal? But you see, I’m not the one who’s come here asking for help with a problem. Now we learn that it may be either imaginary, unsolvable without the help of a team of professionals; or is psychosomatic, and so might respond to treatment by a psychotherapist. (Just talking about yourself here seems never to work for anyone, even after thousands of posts.) That is, we seem at long last to have arrived at the real issue: inner space.

> Maybe fruit loops were filling the inner space in my soul that was yearning for fulfillment.

If so, that space must be exceedingly well-filled at the moment with ice cream. ‘Course, now it’s been stretched into an even bigger inner space, so it’s gon’ need a bit more next time, and soon. Where have I seen that kind of pattern?

Maybe a less self-defeating approach would be to fill the inner space with steak & veggies and shrink it with resistance exercise. Sun, steak, and steel, P. D. Mangan says. To which my gf adds, and sex. So cute.  

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Please stop quoting that quack and causing so much time-wasting. Shredded here:

 

Science-Based Medicine, The McDougall Diet

 

Mark Sisson has an informed account of having stumbled into one of McDougall's "health and adventure" retreats in Costa Rica.

 

      --My Escape from Vegan Island

 

For the budget-conscious, Breatharianism would be a lot cheaper and work faster. Breatharian couple claim they live a 'food-free' lifestyle and haven't felt hungry since 2008. 

 

He puts the fattest buggers on the Rice diet. No doubt they got very fat eating junk fatty foods

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am kind of the opposite of the OP. I start losing weight if I am more than 2 m away from the fridge!

 

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I am kind of the opposite of the OP. I start losing weight if I am more than 2 m away from the fridge!

Gaining weight works very similar to losing weight. You count how many calories you eat, and to gain weight you just eat more than you eat now.

But a BMI of 21 sounds like a healthy weight.

[BigStar]

On 5/21/2021 at 6:20 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

I am kind of the opposite of the OP. I start losing weight if I am more than 2 m away from the fridge!

Keeping sugar and bad carbs entirely out of the fridge, cabinets, house, office, wherever is time-honored method of removing temptation and opportunity. If OP had done just that, he couldn't have got any ice cream whether he wanted it or not.????

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

Keeping sugar and bad carbs entirely out of the fridge, cabinets, house, office, wherever is time-honored method of removing temptation and opportunity. If OP had done just that, he couldn't have got any ice cream whether he wanted it or not.????

It's bad junk food that includes carbs and more importantly fat. Chips, crisps, cake, biscuits, pasties, ice cream, chocolate. Eating too much cheese will get you nice and fat

[BigStar]

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

It's bad junk food that includes carbs and more importantly fat. Chips, crisps, cake, biscuits, pasties, ice cream, chocolate.

Bad junk food does include carbs, excellent progress; and what makes it bad is, most importantly, the bad calories in the bad carbs. Some does contain trans fat as well. Then we have the type of oils used. Shudder.

 

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Eating too much cheese will get you nice and fat

But anyone who's emptied his fridge of the bad carbs after having expanded his waistline with them for such a long time has obviously made a serious commitment. Most people don't pigout on cheese alone anyway. They spread it on the bad carbs to make the carbs taste better and so they can eat even more of the carbs. Adding fat to bad carbs makes them even worse, true. Adding cheese to broccoli is a different matter, if the rest is also low carb.

 

You seen anyone sit down and eat just eat big blocks of cheddar cheese? Well, no. Now they do sell 1 kg blocks of it in Makro if you wish to demonstrate.

 

Accordingly I don't really see the OP eating cheese in industrial quantities to replace his tubs of ice cream. If so,  his wife might complain about all the gas he generates, and he might not like the bloating and constipation. Next stop: gastroenterologist. Oh no!

 

But anyway carb addicts have the most exquisite sense of taste developed through long practice. Their requirements are most particular and exacting. OP will never mistake cheese for ice cream. Never.

 

Years ago I once stayed a couple of weeks in the States w/ a fat friend of mine and his family. (So many are fat over there, you don't have much choice.) Trying various ways to motivate him, I bought him a pack of chips made with Olestra to replace his favorite Lays. Much lower calorie anyway. He tried one, turned up his nose, and immediately exclaimed, Don't taste good! D.a.mnation!

 

They taste close 'nuff--no they don't!--really, so I ate 'em myself, a few at a time.???? Sometimes I feel I'm talking to babies in high chairs.

 

He died in his early 60s to no one's surprise. His wife, freed from his influence, managed to shape up and we still exchange Christmas greetings. She made out well with the property and insurance.

 

FINALLY, cheese is covered by the LC diet I gave the OP. Only 4 ounces a day are permitted. Therefore he'd need to limit the quantity of cheese in his fridge as well if it were an unlikely "danger."

 

So that renders your "point" irrelevant besides silly. Are we done with more time-wasting?

 

As with all diets, you don't get to pigout on low carb diets, either. But the beauty is that, if you strictly follow it (as OP clearly isn't), you soon don't really want to; and then LC becomes more of an automatic lifestyle than diet. LC + intermittent fasting is a great combo for losing the fat and keeping it off.

 

For example, another old friend of mine, now diabetic after years trying all kinds of quack and temporary yo-yo methods to avoid changing anything, FINALLY committed to LC and intermittent fasting. True story: he just emailed me the other day that he'd lost 10 kg in 5 weeks on LC. SHOCK. "Seriously?" "Serously." Yeah, some was water weight, don't bother w/ the knee-jerk. I told him to slow down and incorporate some carb refeedings using good higher carb foods like sweet potatoes at intervals to keep the metabolism steady. (He'd never pay a professional LC nutritionist, so I'm the best he's got; I do what I can.)

 

Surprising thing (knowing him for many years) was that he really, really doesn't miss his old junk and pigouts. He just ain't suffering like he thought he would.

 

[robblok]

On 5/26/2021 at 4:10 PM, BigStar said:

Bad junk food does include carbs, excellent progress; and what makes it bad is, most importantly, the bad calories in the bad carbs. Some does contain trans fat as well. Then we have the type of oils used. Shudder.

 

But anyone who's emptied his fridge of the bad carbs after having expanded his waistline with them for such a long time has obviously made a serious commitment. Most people don't pigout on cheese alone anyway. They spread it on the bad carbs to make the carbs taste better and so they can eat even more of the carbs. Adding fat to bad carbs makes them even worse, true. Adding cheese to broccoli is a different matter, if the rest is also low carb.

 

You seen anyone sit down and eat just eat big blocks of cheddar cheese? Well, no. Now they do sell 1 kg blocks of it in Makro if you wish to demonstrate.

 

Accordingly I don't really see the OP eating cheese in industrial quantities to replace his tubs of ice cream. If so,  his wife might complain about all the gas he generates, and he might not like the bloating and constipation. Next stop: gastroenterologist. Oh no!

 

But anyway carb addicts have the most exquisite sense of taste developed through long practice. Their requirements are most particular and exacting. OP will never mistake cheese for ice cream. Never.

 

Years ago I once stayed a couple of weeks in the States w/ a fat friend of mine and his family. (So many are fat over there, you don't have much choice.) Trying various ways to motivate him, I bought him a pack of chips made with Olestra to replace his favorite Lays. Much lower calorie anyway. He tried one, turned up his nose, and immediately exclaimed, Don't taste good! D.a.mnation!

 

They taste close 'nuff--no they don't!--really, so I ate 'em myself, a few at a time.???? Sometimes I feel I'm talking to babies in high chairs.

 

He died in his early 60s to no one's surprise. His wife, freed from his influence, managed to shape up and we still exchange Christmas greetings. She made out well with the property and insurance.

 

FINALLY, cheese is covered by the LC diet I gave the OP. Only 4 ounces a day are permitted. Therefore he'd need to limit the quantity of cheese in his fridge as well if it were an unlikely "danger."

 

So that renders your "point" irrelevant besides silly. Are we done with more time-wasting?

 

As with all diets, you don't get to pigout on low carb diets, either. But the beauty is that, if you strictly follow it (as OP clearly isn't), you soon don't really want to; and then LC becomes more of an automatic lifestyle than diet. LC + intermittent fasting is a great combo for losing the fat and keeping it off.

 

For example, another old friend of mine, now diabetic after years trying all kinds of quack and temporary yo-yo methods to avoid changing anything, FINALLY committed to LC and intermittent fasting. True story: he just emailed me the other day that he'd lost 10 kg in 5 weeks on LC. SHOCK. "Seriously?" "Serously." Yeah, some was water weight, don't bother w/ the knee-jerk. I told him to slow down and incorporate some carb refeedings using good higher carb foods like sweet potatoes at intervals to keep the metabolism steady. (He'd never pay a professional LC nutritionist, so I'm the best he's got; I do what I can.)

 

Surprising thing (knowing him for many years) was that he really, really doesn't miss his old junk and pigouts. He just ain't suffering like he thought he would.

 

So its not about carbs just limiting calories. Wow what a surprise. 

 

You can be medium carb eating healthy carbs too. Nothing wrong with that your too obsessed by low carbs and making excuses if someone points out the flaws in your theory.

 

Its not about carbs but about overly processed foods. I have yet to see someone pig out on oatmeal too. Last time i checked it was a carb too.

 

Unlike you im bit more of a realist, one should find a diet / lifestyle that fits. That CAN be low carb but does not have to be. I do advise to take out too much processed foods but I think we agree on that. You just call them carbs i call them processed foods. 

 

Carbs are not a problem if moderate and not the bad kind. Cheese is also not a problem as long as you don't take too much. 

 

I certainly can pig out easier on some nice French cheese then i can on oatmeal. Not to mention some good old Dutch cheese. But of course those are quality cheeses not cheap. 

[scubascuba3]

I eat as much carbs as I like, cut out the fat\carb junk such as cakes pastries, chocolate, biscuits, crisps, chips, peanuts and still losing weight, so yeah that can't be working ???? better to restrict your diet and calorie count and fight getting fat with disappointing results

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

So its not about carbs just limiting calories. Wow what a surprise. 

That depends on what "it" is and one's metabolism. I mention the invulnerables below. The metabolisms of our weight-loss advice seekers here probably have issues already.

 

Finally, nobody at any time ever said anything about pigging out and binging on low carb being an accepted part of the strategy. Since you know all about it, point me to any authority advising so. Unlimited anything isn't part of it, never has been. Please write that down on a slip of paper and tape to your computer monitor, 'cause you've been using that silly straw man attack for years. It's just as fallacious now as it was then.

 

Now somehow you managed to get it through your head that low carb doesn't mean "no" carb, which you also chanted for years. Use the same mnemonic strategy, man. The most tedious and boring part of attempting to reason with you is that you just keep going round and round repeating the same illogic and fallacies over and over and over. Repeating doesn't make it true.

 

Little simple-minded bro science can be helpful for some, at least on the surface. What's under the surface is still what's most important, however. You discovered this for yourself after your contracting prediabetes and later coming here to offer dietary advice.???? Personally if I were you I'd do everything I could to avoid insulin spikes. Up 2 U, though, as we say here in Sin City. People often confuse me with somebody who gives a sh.i.t. But I really just think that if starve 'n' sweat works, or you think it does, then go for it. Cheers!

 

All food contains calories, you see, so no discussion about fat and weight loss can ignore them.???? But cheese, besides calories, also contains carbs. Just a slice of cheddar has 28 grams of carbs. So again, we aren't talking only about calories, as you want to believe.

 

Still, the point you always ignore AGAIN for the thousandth time is that all calories aren't treated equally by the metabolism. You can educate yourself about that in depth here:  Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health with countless references. Attacks on Taubes have been refuted. More recently Jason Fung explains with greater brevity in 

 

The Truth About Calories | Jason Fung | Part 1 and

 

Stop Counting Calories to Lose Weight | Jason Fung | Part 2

 

and what the implications are for weight and fat loss.

 

4 hours ago, robblok said:

You can be medium carb eating healthy carbs too. Nothing wrong with that your too obsessed by low carbs and making excuses if someone points out the flaws in your theory.

 

So "you" can, or think so. Nor have you been able to point out any flaws, of course, since you don't understand the diet anyway. Now I've observed several times in previous posts that everybody has some relative who smoked, drank, never dieted or exercised but still lived to 95. Oh, they do.

 

But I keep asking our experts, including you, how am I to know in advance that I'm one of the invulnerable, before it's too late? Crickets. So just out of an abundance of caution, if you don't mind, I'll think I'll continue to violate the tenets of bro science and merely maintain fitness with health without having to expend much effort. I figure, why calorie count, count weights and reps, lift heavy (oh, the joints!), spend hours working out, deal with weight yo-yo, and go hungry when you can be fit and healthy without having to? Wannabe bodybuilders, be my guest. 

 

I might offer this helpful but unwelcome suggestion: people thinking they're getting away with high or medium carbs should just check and make sure that they really are. I would. For some reason, they refuse to do that.???? Threat to morning muesli and the ice cream, I suppose.

 

Quote

 

HbA1c and fasting plasma glucose (FPG) levels are commonly recognized as diagnostic indices for diabetes and glucose intolerance. However, they are not sufficient for clear detection of glucose intolerance in the early stage unless an oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) is performed. . . .

These data suggest a possibility that glucose intolerance screening using a glucose AUC cutoff value of 290 mg h/dl could be useful.

 

    --Glucose area under the curve during oral glucose tolerance test as an index of glucose intolerance

 

Turns out that 50% of people in the USA actually have latent diabetes but don't know it. By the time it shows up on the FPG test, as it did with you, it may likely already have been causing some damage. Insulin resistance is a key factor in all the other aspects of metabolic syndrome to follow. 

 

<repetition already addressed>

 

4 hours ago, robblok said:

I certainly can pig out easier on some nice French cheese then i can on oatmeal.

And that would be because you can't get the same insulin spike you need from cheese as oatmeal and so need to eat more cheese to feel satisfied. Typical symptom of insulin resistance also manifested in your yo-yo weight gains and losses (for which you have a solution). Insulin drives hunger (basically), and a metabolism does take some time to adjust to low carb--longer than in the silly 2-week studies you cite, debunked in Has the Carbohydrate-Insulin Model of Obesity Failed?. Keeping the insulin low and stable you don't need or want a pigout.

 

Hence I never feel any need to pigout or ever count calories. Seems rather silly, actually, doing all that counting and imagining science. As Gary Taubes points out, here's the circular logic, a tautology:

 

Why do we get fat? Because we’re overeating.

How do we know we’re overeating? Because we’re getting fatter.

And why are we getting fatter? Because we’re overeating.

 

Round and round and round. Explains nothing.

 

But cheese would be better for you, if you must pigout. If you're on low-carb the occasional pigout on cheese surely wouldn't hurt a lot, though I've never heard of anyone doing this except in @scubascuba3's fantasies. I say that for the comfort of our many nutritional experts who eschew what they regard as extremes in their field of expertise--because they think they themselves practice moderation.

 

Quote

. . . the researchers found that the more people consumed of a particular item, the larger their sense of “a moderate amount” was. Furthermore, people tended to view their own consumption as “better than moderate.” Meaning, what they ate was less than what they consider a “moderate intake.”

     --“A Little Bite Won’t Hurt”: The Failure of Moderation

 

As explained in the above article, trouble is, for many a dieter, esp. the carb addicted, moderation won't work. Lot of testimonials about that, if you look. Again, you give lip service to "different metabolism" but these old fat guys coming here for advice are already insulin resistant. So "medium" carbs has an outsized effect for them; moreover, they can't stop themselves. So the OP can't just eat a few nuts; no, he's got to eat the whole bag!

 

So if they're going to reduce carbs, better to start low. Or if trying the ol' starve 'n' sweat that's been working so well over the decades in the USA ( 43% obesity now), then better count like crazy. Oh--an app for that!???? I suspect that if they were going to succeed at starve 'n' sweat, they would have done so before now, however. It's been the standard prescription for decades.

 

Moderation is a pillar of TVF Nutritional Science, so the above will come as a shock. But it's the same as with alcoholics and a "little drink," or, h.e.ll, a drunken binge once in a while. Yeah, bro. Merely one of the reasons that the usual CICO recommendations tend to fail. Hence cold turkey abstention really is the best way.

 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

As cold turkey abstention really is the best way

 

I skimmed it but this last sentence was good, once you stop eating chocolate, ice cream, cakes, biscuits, crisps, cheese (your favourite), fatty junk it's easy and the addiction is gone in a week or two and it's easy to lose weight, if someone has thyroid issues maybe caused by yo-yo dieting that's another story

[robblok]

 

53 minutes ago, BigStar said:

That depends on what "it" is and one's metabolism. I mention the invulnerables below. The metabolisms of our weight-loss advice seekers here probably have issues already.

 

Finally, nobody at any time ever said anything about pigging out and binging on low carb being an accepted part of the strategy. Since you know all about it, point me to any authority advising so. Unlimited anything isn't part of it, never has been. Please write that down on a slip of paper and tape to your computer monitor, 'cause you've been using that silly straw man attack for years. It's just as fallacious now as it was then.

 

Now somehow you managed to get it through your head that low carb doesn't mean "no" carb, which you also chanted for years. Use the same mnemonic strategy, man. The most tedious and boring part of attempting to reason with you is that you just keep going round and round repeating the same illogic and fallacies over and over and over. Repeating doesn't make it true.

 

Little simple-minded bro science can be helpful for some, at least on the surface. What's under the surface is still what's most important, however. You discovered this for yourself after your contracting prediabetes and later coming here to offer dietary advice.???? Personally if I were you I'd do everything I could to avoid insulin spikes. Up 2 U, though, as we say here in Sin City. People often confuse me with somebody who gives a sh.i.t. But I really just think that if starve 'n' sweat works, or you think it does, then go for it. Cheers!

 

All food contains calories, you see, so no discussion about fat and weight loss can ignore them.???? But cheese, besides calories, also contains carbs. Just a slice of cheddar has 28 grams of carbs. So again, we aren't talking only about calories, as you want to believe.

 

Still, the point you always ignore AGAIN for the thousandth time is that all calories aren't treated equally by the metabolism. You can educate yourself about that in depth here:  Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health with countless references. Attacks on Taubes have been refuted. More recently Jason Fung explains with greater brevity in 

 

The Truth About Calories | Jason Fung | Part 1 and

 

Stop Counting Calories to Lose Weight | Jason Fung | Part 2

 

and what the implications are for weight and fat loss.

 

 

So "you" can, or think so. Nor have you been able to point out any flaws, of course, since you don't understand the diet anyway. Now I've observed several times in previous posts that everybody has some relative who smoked, drank, never dieted or exercised but still lived to 95. Oh, they do.

 

But I keep asking our experts, including you, how am I to know in advance that I'm one of the invulnerable, before it's too late? Crickets. So just out of an abundance of caution, if you don't mind, I'll think I'll continue to violate the tenets of bro science and merely maintain fitness with health without having to expend much effort. I figure, why calorie count, count weights and reps, lift heavy (oh, the joints!), spend hours working out, deal with weight yo-yo, and go hungry when you can be fit and healthy without having to? Wannabe bodybuilders, be my guest. 

 

I might offer this helpful but unwelcome suggestion: people thinking they're getting away with high or medium carbs should just check and make sure that they really are. I would. For some reason, they refuse to do that.???? Threat to morning muesli and the ice cream, I suppose.

 

    --Glucose area under the curve during oral glucose tolerance test as an index of glucose intolerance

 

Turns out that 50% of people in the USA actually have latent diabetes but don't know it. By the time it shows up on the FPG test, as it did with you, it may likely already have been causing some damage. Insulin resistance is a key factor in all the other aspects of metabolic syndrome to follow. 

 

<repetition already addressed>

 

And that would be because you can't get the same insulin spike you need from cheese as oatmeal and so need to eat more cheese to feel satisfied. Typical symptom of insulin resistance also manifested in your yo-yo weight gains and losses (for which you have a solution). Insulin drives hunger (basically), and a metabolism does take some time to adjust to low carb--longer than in the silly 2-week studies you cite, debunked in Has the Carbohydrate-Insulin Model of Obesity Failed?. Keeping the insulin low and stable you don't need or want a pigout.

 

Hence I never feel any need to pigout or ever count calories. Seems rather silly, actually, doing all that counting and imagining science. As Gary Taubes points out, here's the circular logic, a tautology:

 

Why do we get fat? Because we’re overeating.

How do we know we’re overeating? Because we’re getting fatter.

And why are we getting fatter? Because we’re overeating.

 

Round and round and round. Explains nothing.

 

But cheese would be better for you, if you must pigout. If you're on low-carb the occasional pigout on cheese surely wouldn't hurt a lot, though I've never heard of anyone doing this except in @scubascuba3's fantasies. I say that for the comfort of our many nutritional experts who eschew what they regard as extremes in their field of expertise--because they think they themselves practice moderation.

 

     --“A Little Bite Won’t Hurt”: The Failure of Moderation

 

As explained in the above article, trouble is, for many a dieter, esp. the carb addicted, moderation won't work. Lot of testimonials about that, if you look. Again, you give lip service to "different metabolism" but these old fat guys coming here for advice are already insulin resistant. So "medium" carbs has an outsized effect for them; moreover, they can't stop themselves. So the OP can't just eat a few nuts; no, he's got to eat the whole bag!

 

So if they're going to reduce carbs, better to start low. Or if trying the ol' starve 'n' sweat that's been working so well over the decades in the USA ( 43% obesity now), then better count like crazy. Oh--an app for that!???? I suspect that if they were going to succeed at starve 'n' sweat, they would have done so before now, however. It's been the standard prescription for decades.

 

Moderation is a pillar of TVF Nutritional Science, so the above will come as a shock. But it's the same as with alcoholics and a "little drink," or, h.e.ll, a drunken binge once in a while. Yeah, bro. Merely one of the reasons that the usual CICO recommendations tend to fail. Hence cold turkey abstention really is the best way.

 

First of Jason Fung is a quack so quoting him makes you look bad. He has no credentials. Just because you post laps of text of the same thing does not make it true.

 

https://www.myoleanfitness.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/  (explanation why Fung is a quack)

 

I could find countless websites based on science with claims of him being discredited. So please stop using this quack. 

 

Then again you would probably commit suicide because of your pittiful life finding out that it does not have to be so hard. Putting onto others the same boring lifestyle you have assuming that low carb is the only thing that works. Then lets add intermittent fasting to make it even worse. 

 

Are you perhaps a masochist ?

 

all that insulin B.S. once you cut out processed foods eat enough protein (protein is the secret not fat or carbs) there i no need. Unless of course you want to drive yourself crazy like you do and demonstrate by following quacks. Taubes / Fung.

 

Lets just agree to disagree, i mean you keep quoting quacks and science has already proven my case that low carb is not better then normal diets. You just refuse to accept it and only accept cherry picked studies. We can never finish this debate as you never accept any evidence and keep using non scientific methods.

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

35 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I skimmed it but this last sentence was good, once you stop eating chocolate, ice cream, cakes, biscuits, crisps, cheese (your favourite), fatty junk it's easy and the addiction is gone in a week or two and it's easy to lose weight, if someone has thyroid issues maybe caused by yo-yo dieting that's another story

Sure but those things are highly processed junk that has nothing to do with carbs. No healthy food program would include these things. Yet Bigstar seems to think that people who do eat carbs moderate keep these in their diet. That is pure madness.

 

His alcoholic theory is also quite funny, he might need to some some stand up comedians. I mean how many people who drink alcohol are alcoholics.. and all of a sudden everyone who eats carbs can't process them and is in his eyes a carboholic. ????

 

I wonder if he has included cool aid in his food program.

 

https://www.medicalbrief.co.za/archives/intermittent-fasting-pythagoras-fung/

 

more bad news for fung, the hypocrite. Saying DRs are bought but having conflicts of interests himself and.. not even doing studies himself. 

[robblok]

Why cancer deaths have been declining, dramatically, for the past 30 years: A comprehensive debunking of Jason Fung’s and Andreas Eenfeldt’s deceit.

 

https://thedietwars.com/lies-from-fung/

 

Jason fung the more you look the more lies the guy spreads and the more it becomes clear he is just an other self promoting internet guru.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure but those things are highly processed junk that has nothing to do with carbs. 

 

They are junk that contain sugar carbs fat, many people eat them every day and wonder why they are fat

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

They are junk that contain sugar carbs fat, many people eat them every day and wonder why they are fat

YES

 

But nobody with a grain of brainpower would keep those in a healthy diet. Not low carb but neither would medium carb. Its about eating healthy foods and not processed junk. Once the processed junk is gone then you can go low carb if you like or medium carb or whatever. It all works the same none is more superior then an other. Science has not shown that with definite proof.

 

Once you remove the highly processed junk foods then its just about how many calories and if you keep medium carb or low carb its not going to change much. 

 

I only advocate against people like Bigstar who don't seem to accept any other ways.

 

http://commonsenseketogenics.com/is-the-keto-community-just-an-echo-chamber-of-bias/

[covidiot]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:57 PM, Neeranam said:

Maybe fruit loops were filling the inner space in my soul that was yearning for fulfillment. 

that's profound . 

 

[jackdd]

On 5/26/2021 at 4:10 PM, BigStar said:

As with all diets, you don't get to pigout on low carb diets, either. But the beauty is that, if you strictly follow it (as OP clearly isn't), you soon don't really want to; and then LC becomes more of an automatic lifestyle than diet.

Yes, the basic for every diet is always CICO.

If you stop eating junk food for a while you will stop craving it, this is not limited to low carb.

[eezergood]

On 5/29/2021 at 5:46 PM, robblok said:

 

First of Jason Fung is a quack so quoting him makes you look bad. He has no credentials. Just because you post laps of text of the same thing does not make it true.

 

https://www.myoleanfitness.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/  (explanation why Fung is a quack)

 

I could find countless websites based on science with claims of him being discredited. So please stop using this quack. 

 

Then again you would probably commit suicide because of your pittiful life finding out that it does not have to be so hard. Putting onto others the same boring lifestyle you have assuming that low carb is the only thing that works. Then lets add intermittent fasting to make it even worse. 

 

Are you perhaps a masochist ?

 

all that insulin B.S. once you cut out processed foods eat enough protein (protein is the secret not fat or carbs) there i no need. Unless of course you want to drive yourself crazy like you do and demonstrate by following quacks. Taubes / Fung.

 

Lets just agree to disagree, i mean you keep quoting quacks and science has already proven my case that low carb is not better then normal diets. You just refuse to accept it and only accept cherry picked studies. We can never finish this debate as you never accept any evidence and keep using non scientific methods.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly - i failed to respond, as Fung is a complete idiot 

[robblok]

48 minutes ago, eezergood said:

Exactly - i failed to respond, as Fung is a complete idiot 

Its hard to comment against the cult of low carb. I don't have a problem with low carb as a program to lose weight but I do have a problem with them saying its the only way. The whole insulin idea is crazy too. Not the part that if your over sensitive that it could prevent you from losing weight . 

 

But the moment you diet you cut down the amount of carbs too so you will lose weight and insulin spikes will be less too. Anyway its not as if insulin is the one and only hormone. Otherwise that twinkie diet would not have worked. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, eezergood said:

Exactly - i failed to respond, as Fung is a complete idiot 

Here a study funded partly by Garry toubes one of Bigstar his heroes.

 

A major new randomized clinical trial (RCT) on low-fat vs. low-carb diets^[1] has cleared three of the biggest hurdles seen in weight loss studies:

1. Recruiting a large number of participants

2. Retaining and tracking them over a long period of time

3. Carefully monitoring compliance with the assigned diet

This year-long study, creatively named The Diet Intervention Examining The Factors Interacting with Treatment Success (DIETFITS), involved 600+ participants. It was conducted by Dr. Christopher Gardner of Stanford University in conjunction with the US National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI), and a team of nutrition experts.

This is notable, since NuSI was co-founded by Gary Taubes, a prominent low-carb advocate and champion of the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis of obesity.

 

Guess what this big study for a year showed advantage to low carb but instead it gave the same recommendations I have always given people.

 

Maybe after focusing on a foundational diet of the following:

1. More whole foods

2. More vegetables specifically

3. Less added sugar

4. Less refined grains

 

https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/

 

The results of this study contribute to a large body of evidence indicating that, for weight loss, neither low-fat nor low-carb is superior (as long as there’s no difference in caloric intake or protein intake).

 

 

 

 

[eezergood]

22 hours ago, robblok said:

Here a study funded partly by Garry toubes one of Bigstar his heroes.

 

A major new randomized clinical trial (RCT) on low-fat vs. low-carb diets^[1] has cleared three of the biggest hurdles seen in weight loss studies:

1. Recruiting a large number of participants

2. Retaining and tracking them over a long period of time

3. Carefully monitoring compliance with the assigned diet

This year-long study, creatively named The Diet Intervention Examining The Factors Interacting with Treatment Success (DIETFITS), involved 600+ participants. It was conducted by Dr. Christopher Gardner of Stanford University in conjunction with the US National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI), and a team of nutrition experts.

This is notable, since NuSI was co-founded by Gary Taubes, a prominent low-carb advocate and champion of the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis of obesity.

 

Guess what this big study for a year showed advantage to low carb but instead it gave the same recommendations I have always given people.

 

Maybe after focusing on a foundational diet of the following:

1. More whole foods

2. More vegetables specifically

3. Less added sugar

4. Less refined grains

 

https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/

 

The results of this study contribute to a large body of evidence indicating that, for weight loss, neither low-fat nor low-carb is superior (as long as there’s no difference in caloric intake or protein intake).

 

 

 

 

Fung plays with stats & uses his DR status - My mate is a Dr of Geography, she is fat and clueless about nutrition!

Taubes is a journalist - a smart one with a credible level of understanding, but still a journalist. He also dismisses any notion that anything other than sugar is responsible for weight gain 

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, eezergood said:

Fung plays with stats & uses his DR status - My mate is a Dr of Geography, she is fat and clueless about nutrition!

Taubes is a journalist - a smart one with a credible level of understanding, but still a journalist. He also dismisses any notion that anything other than sugar is responsible for weight gain 

 

True both are quacks who make a lot of money from low carb. Fung has put money back into 1!!! study and that was it. Both are just self promoting quacks. Whenever i read about them the experts always say yes low carb can help especially if insulin resistant or having metabolic problems. Now there is no denying that when that happens low carb has an advantage. However Fung and Taubes and not to mention Bigstar seem to think that there is only low carb. 

 

Yet this research that i posted is one of the bigger and longer lasting ones and finds no real difference as long as you cut out much processed foods. No suprise there I have been saying that all the time. once processed foods are gone its just a matter of how much. 

 

The whole insulin thing is true but its importance is overstated. Otherwise the twinkie diet would never have worked. Its sickening how we go from one crazy plan (low fat)  to an other low carb. Just eat healthy and get enough of all sources especially protein (for multiple reasons). For one it has the highest thermic effect and it helps preserve muscle. 

 

Its been said that high protein is the secret not low carb. 

 

I tried low carb was just not better then normal carbs and its all about the diet that works best for a person. One needs to check out what is doable and can be done long term.

[eezergood]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

True both are quacks who make a lot of money from low carb. Fung has put money back into 1!!! study and that was it. Both are just self promoting quacks. Whenever i read about them the experts always say yes low carb can help especially if insulin resistant or having metabolic problems. Now there is no denying that when that happens low carb has an advantage. However Fung and Taubes and not to mention Bigstar seem to think that there is only low carb. 

 

Yet this research that i posted is one of the bigger and longer lasting ones and finds no real difference as long as you cut out much processed foods. No suprise there I have been saying that all the time. once processed foods are gone its just a matter of how much. 

 

The whole insulin thing is true but its importance is overstated. Otherwise the twinkie diet would never have worked. Its sickening how we go from one crazy plan (low fat)  to an other low carb. Just eat healthy and get enough of all sources especially protein (for multiple reasons). For one it has the highest thermic effect and it helps preserve muscle. 

 

Its been said that high protein is the secret not low carb. 

 

I tried low carb was just not better then normal carbs and its all about the diet that works best for a person. One needs to check out what is doable and can be done long term.

Low carb usually works for people as they cut out the <deleted> & the honeymoon period of a "new diet" always helps 

At the end of the day its about adherence

[SnowyWiez]

Its a matter of calories in/calories out.

Diet is 80~90% of this. 

If your cutting, eventually metabolism slows overtime so you may need to cycle it (calorie restricted period / maintenance periods). Doing it slow over time is more likely to keep the weight off and less likely your going lose muscle mass during the weight loss.

Would worry how you feel and if fat is going down vs pure weight itself.

 

Possible things to try and break the cycle

- Mix in some bulking days and add some strength training exercises (Get your metabolism out of starvation mode and more muscle = more calories burned) Hell for me motivation to hit the gym means overall get to enjoy more food in life 

- More lean proteins when your cutting. When your cutting overall food intake is reduced but need to try and not go catabolic/lose muscle during these times.  Get a pressure cooker or air fryer and chicken breast is a breeze to cook. Also can cook in bulk for the week or freeze for longer term. Tends to get boring so probably pick a decent hot sauce or mix of seasonings to keep it interesting. Just avoid the high suger stuff like sweeeeeet delicous thai chili sauce 

- When you are eating less calories than you need a day also have to consider nutrition side. Probably eating less food overall at this point meaning not getting proper nutrition. Instead maybe look at adding in low calorie/nutrient dense food to help fill the gap. Easy to add in leafy greens to any meal and stay full longer. Makro frozen broccoli or spinach by the kilo is a cheap and easy addition to any meal.  

[SnowyWiez]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:53 PM, robblok said:

Agreed carbs only a concern if blood sugar is out of control, else nix the junk and the non-starchy/nutrient dense vegs in. Plus the vegs keep you feeling full and the pipes working correctly lol

 

On 5/29/2021 at 6:53 PM, robblok said:

YES

 

But nobody with a grain of brainpower would keep those in a healthy diet. Not low carb but neither would medium carb. Its about eating healthy foods and not processed junk. Once the processed junk is gone then you can go low carb if you like or medium carb or whatever. It all works the same none is more superior then an other. Science has not shown that with definite proof.

 

Once you remove the highly processed junk foods then its just about how many calories and if you keep medium carb or low carb its not going to change much. 

 

I only advocate against people like Bigstar who don't seem to accept any other ways.

 

http://commonsenseketogenics.com/is-the-keto-community-just-an-echo-chamber-of-bias/

 

[thomassimmons]

Your current diet seems quite limited in terms of variety. It's essential to have a balanced diet that includes a wide range of nutrients from different food groups. Weetabix, mango, sandwiches, and mixed nuts might not provide all the essential nutrients your body needs for optimal health. Consider incorporating more fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, and whole grains into your meals.