THE WEEK THAT WAS The year long Phony War is over - unless you’re a pandemic denier

[CharlieH]

Troll comments and responses removed.

[VBF]

10 minutes ago, jimbob123 said:

In your opinion? But who are you? A well regarded medical professional? Or just some retired guy from Surrey? 

No - fact - there is no UK strain - it is a strain that was discovered in UK which is why the media calls it the UK strain

[NorthernRyland]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So many people are using that excuse to promote the idea that this pandemic isn't serious.

Because the world has gone insane and decided to treat a healthy 18 year old the same as an 81 year old. Most people are so badly misinformed about COVID (thanks to main stream media!) they don't even understand the most basic demographic realities at play. If we try to inform them ourselves we're accused of being "deniers" and killing grandma.

 

[onebir]

10 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

the other classic 'but, but Sweden!!' who have steadfastly insisted that the deaths pale into insignificence compared to the financial cost.

But no "but, but Brazil" and "but, but India!"

These people pick their cherries care-dully....

[jimbob123]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

No fact - there is no UK strain - it is a strain that was discovered in UK which is why the media calls it the UK strain

Is there a reason why you embolden certain words? As you are not a medical professional then I assume you are an armchair critic who has no clue other than reading the Guardian / Daily Mail same as the rest of us? 

[VBF]

4 minutes ago, jimbob123 said:

Is there a reason why you embolden certain words? As you are not a medical professional then I assume you are an armchair critic who has no clue other than reading the Guardian / Daily Mail same as the rest of us? 

Yes, I'm trying to get my emphasis across having read some of the same media as you, plus then going and researching on the professional sites (unlike the MSM ones) such as  The Lancet, BMJ and BHF. It seems the best way to make my meanings clear....does it offend you?

[NorthernRyland]

 

11 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

which countries ?

 

Here are 2 resources. Excess deaths are a good indicator that SOMETHING is going wrong.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

 

Here's a nice interactive graph showing COVID risk, however there is no way to disaggregate actual healthy people from the data. In fact to this day  I have seen nothing that shows the risk of HEALTHY people by age. The closest we got was the 6% number of "only COVID on the death certificate" from CDC.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator

[jimbob123]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

Yes, I'm trying to get my emphasis across having read the same media as you, plus then going and researching on the professional sites such as  The Lancet, BMJ and BHF. It seems the best way to make my meanings clear....does it offend you?

Doesn't offend. But the problem of armchair critics means the noise drowns out the signal. 

[jerolamo]

4 minutes ago, BilCoz said:

I find it hilarious that rooster is now calling for other idiots voices to be censored, while he seems to have no problem going on with his weekly piece of <deleted>.

I mean WOW!! you've realized how wrong you were, well done! But do you know what would be even better? Realize you were so wrong BECAUSE you are an unsalvageable moron, and stop insisting on trying to spread your views on any serious matter to others.

Please consider it

thank you.

 

is an "idiot" can be everybody that can not think same than yourself ?

Or is there any other point to measure what is the level of an idiot (an IQ test maybe) ?

 

But yes, i understand that it can be "hilarious" to read that someone who propagate an idea, then turn his way to finally argue for censorship against what he was thinking about so strongly.

In fact, what make me feel un-confortable is this kind of insolent aggressiveness around "prosecuted" dream and censorship opportunity that can be (so that the measure criteria unity is himself...)... all about what someone is thinking to be an idiot as long as he or she doesn't think that I am thinking the same !

Isn't it the definition about what is an idiot to consider ourself as a unit of measurement ? And a proff to be able top prosecute someone that can not said that i want to ear about ? It is just more than a stupid position to be able to maintain without a real power somewhere we can speak from to affirm that kind of sentence.

 

As you said, from someone who was in opposite and express widely mind thinking he was speaking about.

In fact, that doesn't make me laugh at all, i think it is sad an decrease the quality level of this media content. Maybe Rooster is the owner or a good friend of the owner to be able to post this kind of "article" in this form. Or... there is something out of the reason there, what ever it is.

[VBF]

1 minute ago, jimbob123 said:

Doesn't offend. But the problem of armchair critics means the noise drowns out the signal. 

I agree, and we all (myself included) think we know better! I have been arguing with one individual for the last few hours as I'm convinced he's either purposely trying to misrepresent my comments or he just doesn't understand me. The bold is me trying to emphasise whilst remaining as polite as possible! 

[Britman Free]

15 minutes ago, onebir said:

But no "but, but Brazil" and "but, but India!"

These people pick their cherries care-dully....

Sweden, Texas, South Dakota & Florida ????

[jerolamo]

12 minutes ago, onebir said:

But no "but, but Brazil" and "but, but India!"

These people pick their cherries care-dully....

No more than any other one who did other choices to lockdown massively (approximatively same result at the end if not baddest for some of them).

The best one positioned are the one (countries) that doesn't test so much, so that it is easy to understand: 0 test => zero contamination, and then, less test, less contamination. In,, some countries (as mine is), there is also the problem to get a monaie back from COVID death case in the service hospital count... so that there is many false covid death (and also some other who die by cancer, but was also positive, so they are classified as covid death... it is a lie, butr the death rate show the problem and statistic just show the fake).

 

So can you conclude than the countries that doesn't test get the best practice to treat the problem ?

[VBF]

10 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

 

Here are 2 resources. Excess deaths are a good indicator that SOMETHING is going wrong.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

 

Here's a nice interactive graph showing COVID risk, however there is no way to disaggregate actual healthy people from the data. In fact to this day  I have seen nothing that shows the risk of HEALTHY people by age. The closest we got was the 6% number of "only COVID on the death certificate" from CDC.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator

Quite agree.  That also enforces my point about what has been going on UK death certs. If for example, they said something like "Advanced Cancer, possibly exacerbated by Covid-19" I think we might get a truer representation of the accurate figures.

[jerolamo]

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

I agree, and we all (myself included) think we know better! I have been arguing with one individual for the last few hours as I'm convinced he's either purposely trying to misrepresent my comments or he just doesn't understand me. The bold is me trying to emphasise whilst remaining as polite as possible! 

i agree. But you can also recognize that, read back yourself, your source of information is not a reference of anything we should talk about seriously. As long as you can not recognize it as it is, you miss something. Which way you will turn it, it is always the same things you present... how old are you ?

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, Britman Free said:

Sweden, Texas, South Dakota & Florida ????

 

Here are the US hospitalizations up to March when data stopped (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-19-hospitalizations-us/).

 

All the curves are very similar suggesting that policy had little or no affect and the virus is seasonal, just like the flu. 

 

[VBF]

1 minute ago, jerolamo said:

i agree. But you can also recognize that, read back yourself, your source oif information is not a reference of anything we should talk about seriously. As long as you can not recognize it as it is, you miss something. Which way you will turn it, it is always the same things you present... how old are you ?

You do know I was referring to you don't you?

This post of yours is once again incomprehensible, and as for my age "probably older than you"!

[jerolamo]

17 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

 

Here are 2 resources. Excess deaths are a good indicator that SOMETHING is going wrong.

 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/excess-mortality-across-countries-in-2020/

 

Here's a nice interactive graph showing COVID risk, however there is no way to disaggregate actual healthy people from the data. In fact to this day  I have seen nothing that shows the risk of HEALTHY people by age. The closest we got was the 6% number of "only COVID on the death certificate" from CDC.

 

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mortality-risk-estimator

yes, it is a good source.

Can you now look at death rate by year from 20 years ago to now, year by year (and show them in a full graph showing the 20 years death rate) ?

Please, look closer at the curves and tell me what you can, maybe, also conclude ?

For oldest population countries (as it is massively in Europe), there is an increase of death rate from already more than 10 years ago, and the curve doesn't change much this year 2020.

So as the number and curves, please care about to not focus on a little part of the curves, but look at them widely, with more care about the years before and the curves.

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

You do know I was referring to you don't you?

This post of yours is once again incomprehensible, and as for my age "probably older than you"!

ok, i think there is a difference between what you can realy understand and what you choose to simulate to not understand. At this point, consider the problem to be resolved at it is locked by your choice. That's it, it is not my problem and it is also not a real problem, it is something usual if not current.

[jerolamo]

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Here are the US hospitalizations up to March when data stopped (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-19-hospitalizations-us/).

 

All the curves are very similar suggesting that policy had little or no affect and the virus is seasonal, just like the flu. 

 

show curves on any other years... it is typical seasons related curves at any year. i can predict you the next wave to be related with the season and weather condition.... everybody can predict this so that it can be a subject of concern to speak about and to link with any possible mind thinking around.

So now we can also show a real tragic pandemic curve to compare with... can we ?

[jimbob123]

Let's be grown up and honest. Nobody in this forum has any insight other than what is available online. Stay safe and healthy. And stop quibbling. 

[VBF]

Just now, jerolamo said:

ok, i think there is a difference between what you can real understand and what you choose to simulate to not understand. At this point, consider the problem to be resolved at it is locked by your choice. That's it, it is not my problem and it is also not a real problem, it is something usual if not current.

Whatever you meant, said, or meant to say was, I'm sure, very profound ????

I choose to wish you "A very good morrow, sir" ????

[VBF]

Just now, jimbob123 said:

Let's be grown up and honest. Nobody in this forum has any insight other than what is available online. Stay safe and healthy. 

Indeed...... but may i just add, that there are websites and there are websites if you get my drift. ????

Good Health to one and all 

[jerolamo]

 

4 minutes ago, VBF said:

Whatever you meant, said, or meant to say was, I'm sure, very profound ????

I choose to wish you "A very good morrow, sir" ????

I like what finished showing yours your ironic, it's a rather clever way to divert a subject. This is not politeness at all, but wants to be clever (and is sometimes when it takes). Really, I find it distinct enough that it is noticeable. Everyone has their own style, good evening my friend, thank you for these very informative exchanges from "BBC news culture". ("young once, juvenile forever" is something that will change, you will see... i trust that you will prefer as soon as older, the experience out of any victim's sources propaganda)

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

Can you now look at death rate by year from 20 years ago to now, year by year (and show them in a full graph showing the 20 years death rate) ?

 

CDC showed only the last 5 years and I assume all cause mortality is rising due to the baby boomers reaching age. No idea how to get older data.

 

here's a chart I made myself by pulling out CDC data from their website. This is all cause mortality by age. (don't delete this admins, I don't have a link because I made it myself). The last time I updated this was January 24  2021 so 2020 is incomplete to some degree.

 

Excess deaths in the 25-44 range are way over what CDC reports as COVID deaths so make of that what you will.

 

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

show curves on any other years... it is typical seasons related curves at any year. i can predict you the next wave to be related with the season and weather condition...

I agree. If you take away state names you can't tell which states had strict regulations and those who did very little (WY and CO for example). The only thing people can do is stay home if they're at risk. Anything beyond that is just punitive and destructive.

[jerolamo]

9 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

CDC showed only the last 5 years and I assume all cause mortality is rising due to the baby boomers reaching age. No idea how to get older data.

 

here's a chart I made myself by pulling out CDC data from their website. This is all cause mortality by age. (don't delete this admins, I don't have a link because I made it myself). The last time I updated this was January 24  2021 so 2020 is incomplete to some degree.

 

Excess deaths in the 25-44 range are way over what CDC reports as COVID deaths so make of that what you will.

 

very good job.

Yes, definitely, there is something to consider. Not a huge death excessive pandemic (but who know what it can become...) but something real. Also yes, the baby boom show that older population is more exposed to death consequencies at any season viruses. I hope i would not be prosecuted because i'm trying to not be in a kind of binary mode of thinking... i think we should scare more about the fear of fragile people than with a virus. The one who was talking about G point (the second world war) to compare with is also the one who miss the point that it was just possible because of the fear of people against what ? Jewish who was prosecuted to death penalty !

A German population who was in a huge poverty situation, then helped by the USA (to buy oil and gaz then product weapon with steel) who did finance their war game, to next, help their opponent they invade to fight them back.

Some historian said that it can be a way to think about a real war between USA and URSS at this time to get power in Geographic European economy, but also to be more inbfluent (capitalist against communist), and a plan to unit Europe to fall down nations choices (as describe not longer at these time the General De Gaulle).

 

So Rooster doesn't know the history he is talking about and should consider that freedom to speak is not a crime, and can not be as long as you do not insult anyone.

 

As you can see, the subject of the COVID is became quickly a totem with many tabou under. If we look at factual curve as you do, it is clear that it is not a huge dangerous pandemic (but it can become... who really know the future ?), but some fear hot head are ready to push people who speak in jail, very soon ! As all the time, when fear is present, intelligence is out, agressiveness is also present, and the price of life is huge.

[A1Str8]

The deniers do not mean there's no virus. We all know there is. What they mean is it was no coincidence that it showed up and infected the whole planet. Which is true. 

The Chinese are well aware of this. 

 

But why people started calling it vax-LMFAO is beyond me. 

I guess I am gonna go get waxed then..

 

I also don't think people should be concerned about the whole thing because there's only one virus on this planet, it's called humanity. Nature has weird ways of getting even. 

[Stargeezr]

Another good read Rooster, and it seems that some posters were a bit stirred up.  I am sure that some of the deniers and

anti maskers and the like will be in less numbers in the future. When they catch the COVID or a variant of the original they will

die, and not just deny.  I hope that you will be able to get the vaccine of your choice, as well. It still looks like Moderna and Pfizer

are both pretty good vaccines.  in Canada the variants are causing a large spike in COVID cases, and the younger people in their 20s to 50s are

now getting sick, and there are still lots dying. I am just glad that the situation is not as bad as the USA , Brazil or India.  The next few

weeks will still have lots of news stories of the horrible death numbers from India and Brazil. I feel so sorry for all the medical workers

who have to watch those people die.  Good luck with your vaccine program, mask up and stay safe.

Geezer

[Patong2021]

With the spread of the deadly disease, many people who were once deniers now have first person experience with the  disease and can share  its joys, its delights and can continue to dismiss its impact, assuming they have survived  and are not one of the millions of people with ongoing medical problems. It is  easier to deny when one is not the  person suffering  either as the patient or the one who is working the depressing long hours to deliver care.

 

11 hours ago, Libai said:

"Of particular concern to this columnist is the large number of people - particularly on Thaivisa’s Facebook arm, far less so on the forum - who insist the pandemic is a hoax. I saw one who called Thaivisa scaremongers! Then there are those who spread malicious and idiotic nonsense about vaccines, people who believe they have a right to free speech.

 

It’s time not just to rid social media of such people but for governments to look at making it a crime to say such things, a bit like some nations have laws to rein in Holocaust deniers.

 

Pandemic and vaccine deniers need at the very least to be called out at every opportunity and possibly banned and prosecuted. "

 

The most important item in any Human is the right to Freedom of Speech whether you agree or not this right should be protected.  Without which we would be controlled by a dictatorial government where one could not speak out on any subject.   A very greasy pole to slipdown.

 

You make the very annoying and far too common mistake of confusing freedom of speech and the excuse used by those who do the intentional spreading of false information. It is an undisputed fact that there have been organized campaigns to intentionally spread false information. This was done to disrupt  social order and the economies of the free world and is linked back to countries and groups who have political agenda.  These campaigns are far spread and are found in far too much frequency with idiots copying and pasting the false information and presenting as fact. The people who repeat false information are never held to account or responsible for the harm they do.

 

It is acceptable to criticize and argue against a policy or an idea using fact. It is acceptable to object to vaccination based upon personal opinion. It is not acceptable to push those opinions using false information or facts taken out of context. Too many stupid people think they are expert and we see in forum on this subject. They have no education, no work or real research experience, but they carry on like they know it all. When someone points out that they are not factually correct they use freedom of speech excuse to defend their actions, saying they make discussion only. I say to you that it is people like this who are responsible for the mess we are in now.  Repeat a lie often enough and people of low intelligence will come to believe and to accept.

 

Please remember that our human intelligence is on a Bell curve with 50% below the median. At least 25% are not capable of consideration of complex concepts. 16% +of the population does not even understand the characteristics of this disease and cannot do much more than follow precautions if repeatedly explained and reinforced.  What this all means is that when one person promotes a lie about the infection, it will most likely result in harm to others. Free speech is not a right to do harm to others.

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, jerolamo said:

which countries ?

Do you care about the official death number by year ?

Sure there is something with the COVID, and still older and fragile ones are a target as all the time it was and it will, but actually, it is difficult to compare with a hi death pandemic historic killer virus.

 

I can also very well understand the fear of older and fragile ones, but i can not agree with a kind of panic reaction (as i am not fragile too and i have an other one life that shown me  saddest kind of thing) or binaries mind thinking production. 

 

The major problem is to get enough bed in reanimation, and sure, that should occur some high level decision that can occur restrictive things, but it should be measured too (and much more in countries where they has been deleted due to efficiency business story time as mine as they removed a lot... now big problem ! Isn't it the real story time under the jacket ?). I can also not agree with opportunities that can be for business to be with kind of expensive and irrelevant medications

that exist in some places (and i'm not talking about vaccine here).

Are you in need of help?