Thai health ministry denies they are giving free jabs to expats - Thais come first

[Fromas]

14 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

No public official has claimed that ALL Thai people need to be vaccinated before foreigners will receive vaccinations.  It seems obvious that high risk Thai Nationals are the priority, and then high risk foreigners will be next in line.

 

What is your source for this?

[WaveHunter]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I doubt they are acting on the basis of consciously being racist.......it is more a 1960's Alf Garnett type of racism......they don't even realize what they are doing.

 

Medically there is no harm to the general Thai population by including all at risk expats (probably the vast majority of expats) once all at risk Thais are vaccinated.......that would strike a happy balance.

There is absolutely NO racism involved IMHO.  There is no reason to believe that your "happy balance" is not actually the strategy that Thai officials are using.  When Thai officials infer "Thais first", they are not saying ALL thai people before foreigners.

 

It's only logical to assume that they mean all Thai Nationals in high risk groups followed by all foreigners in high risk groups.  There is nothing racists about being sure your own citizens in high risk groups are taken care of when there is not enough vaccine to meet the demand for ALL high risk groups that would include foreigners.  Once a surplus exists, it obviously benefits the population as a whole for the high risk group of foreigners to be vaccinated.

 

All of the people claiming this is a racist policy don't seem to understand that vaccines are NOT intended for your personal protection as much as for the protection of the population as a whole.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Fromas said:

What is your source for this?

 

 

   15 minutes ago,  WaveHunter said: 

No public official has claimed that ALL Thai people need to be vaccinated before foreigners will receive vaccinations.  It seems obvious that high risk Thai Nationals are the priority, and then high risk foreigners will be next in line.

It was claimed in the report that expats would only be vaccinated "when there was surplus vaccines available" ..............that means when all Thais, who want the vaccine, have been vaccinated.....in my book.

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Fromas said:

 

What is your source for this?

It doesn't exist.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

There is no reason to believe that your "happy balance" is not actually the strategy that Thai officials are using.

...because expats will only be vaccinated when there is a surplus of vaccines available!!!!!!

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...because expats will only be vaccinated when there is a surplus of vaccines available!!!!!!

I'm certain they won't wait until all Thais that are willing to be vaccinated to give access to expats.

But the critical issue here which in my view is a human rights violation is not including access to high risk expats in the same time frame as high risk Thais.

That is just wrong. End of.

[clivebaxter]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...because expats will only be vaccinated when there is a surplus of vaccines available!!!!!!

 

Purely on the basis of nationality, which is wrong morally, ethically and from an at risk basis.

[Surelynot]

Just now, clivebaxter said:

 

Purely on the basis of nationality, which is wrong morally, ethically and from an at risk basis.

Agree.

 

The thing is expats (most of whom are at risk) can easily be vaccinated early-on in the program, saving lives, at no medical risk to younger Thais who would then be vaccinated afterwards.

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But the critical issue here which in my view is a human rights violation...........

....and how many might die unnecessarily in the meantime!!!!

[WaveHunter]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Lack of awareness doesn't objectively make the policy less racist.

Another reason we need our embassies to act. 

At least try to communicate how such racist policies are perceived internationally.

Would they want their nationals living abroad to be treated this unfairly particularly on matters of life and death?

You are VERY misinformed if you think your embassy's job is to act as your advocate in this matter.  Perhaps you should educate yourself on what the purpose of an embassy is and stop saying such silly things.  But if you insist, go ahead and call your embassy, and tell us what they have to say...good luck!

 

In general, the "racism" rants on this thread are SO misinformed and simply defy basic logical thinking.  All of you ranters act as though there is plenty of vaccine to go around...THERE IS NOT!

 

Do a little research before you make these racism claims!  What a complete waste of time to carry on like this.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You are VERY misinformed if you think your embassy's job is to act as your advocate in this matter.

They have already emailed me to say they agree and are making representations urgently on the matter???

 

 

Dear 

 

I am, as you would expect, raising this as a matter of urgency with the Prime Minister, as well as the Minister of Health, asking for both clarity on the government policy and for equal access to vaccines for all residents of Thailand.

 

Yours

 

 

Brian

 

Brian Davidson CMG I HM Ambassador to Thailand I British Embassy Bangkok I *  [email protected] I( tel: +66 (0)2 305 8302 ( fax: +66 (0)2 305 8372 ) ECHO: 419 2302 I :: www.gov.uk/fcdo I www.gov.uk/world/thailand I facebook.com/ukinthailand Itwitter.com/ukinthailand I twitter.com/brijdavidson

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Surelynot

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

They have already emailed me to say they agree and are making representations urgently on the matter???

 

 

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you. 

 

Do a little googling to understand what the purpose of an embassy is.  It is not like you see in the movies! 

 

They are NOT there to act as your advocate in matters like this, especially when the Thai policies are logical and not in the very least "racist" in any sense.

 

Besides, you are NOT a citizen of Thailand; you are a guest of the Kingdom.  Your rights as a guest are significantly different than those of a citizen.

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to you.  Do a little googling to understand what the purpose of an embassy is.  It is not like you see in the movies!

So the UK Ambassador is just telling blatant lies in an email to me?

[WaveHunter]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

So the UK Ambassador is just telling blatant lies in an email to me?

It is referred to as responding to you in a "diplomatic" way.  Seriously, don't be so naive.

 

The letter you showed is only asking for "clarity" on the policy with regard to timelines, which we would all like to have.  It is by no means an inference of "racism"

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

It is by no means an inference of "racism"

? No...I agree ???

[WaveHunter]

Just now, Surelynot said:

? No...I agree ???

What does that mean; you believe it is or is not racism?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

What does that mean; you believe it is or is not racism?

I can't imagine any circumstances in which a UK Ambassador to Thailand would even intimate racism was a factor in his concerns.

[joecoolfrog]

22 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

There were no stockpiles in the US at the beginning of the vaccination program. But even at that time, Thais and other nationalities had equal access to the vaccine based on age and medical condition qualifications, which applied to everyone.

Ditto the UK and every other civilised nation.

[Fromas]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

It seems obvious that high risk Thai Nationals are the priority, and then high risk foreigners will be next in line.

 

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

when a surplus exists

 

Not the same thing.

 

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

Tell me.

 

[WaveHunter]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I can't imagine any circumstances in which a UK Ambassador to Thailand would even intimate racism was a factor in his concerns.

My question is really what your view is.  Do you believe it is a racism issue, or are you (like me) only wanting clarification of WHEN we (as foreigners) can expect to be vaccinated, either by the government or by a private hospital (my preference).

 

As far as I'm concerned, it is a is a valid criticism that the Thai government is not being transparent about addressing the WHEN question...but that is a far cry from being racist.

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

The debate in this thread about Thai Ministry of Public Health being racist in their vaccine rollout is ridiculous!  All of you who are claiming that the Thai government is acting in a racist manner when claiming that "Thai come first" seem to think that this policy is immoral or evil.

 

Well it might be if there were enough vaccine doses for everybody right now but that is NOT the case.  Right now demand for the vaccine just to address the needs of the high risk group of Thai Nationals is far higher than the available supply.

 

Consider that right now it is estimated Thailand has secured the purchase of around 64 million doses for delivery between June and August.  They have successfully negotiated for an additional 5-10 million doses of Sputnik V and the same amount of Pfizer.  Consider that the total population of Thailand is almost 70 million people.  You don't need to be a math whiz to see that demand vastly exceeds supply.

 

So, what are responsible officials of a sovereign nation to do?  The answer should be obvious.  Their responsibility first and foremost is to their own citizens in high risk groups, followed by foreigners in high risk group.

 

No public official has claimed that ALL Thai people need to be vaccinated before foreigners will receive vaccinations.  It seems obvious that high risk Thai Nationals are the priority, and then high risk foreigners will be next in line.

 

Why do I believe that high-risk foreigners will be next in line?  The answer should be obvious!  It is for the benefit of the population as a whole that ALL high risk individuals are vaccinated ASAP and I think Thai government officials know this. 

 

It simply boils down to Thai High risk group first, and then when a surplus exists, high risk foreigners, and then the rest of the population.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

Your assertions are nonsense.

Thailand has not prioritised high risk nationals to start with , the generals and their hi so cronies ( of whatever age , healthy or not ) have been top of the queue.

[John Drake]

37 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You are VERY misinformed if you think your embassy's job is to act as your advocate in this matter.  Perhaps you should educate yourself on what the purpose of an embassy is and stop saying such silly things. 

 

Here is the US Embassy's mission statement. 

Quote

The mission of the United States Embassy is to advance the interests of the United States, and to serve and protect U.S. citizens in Thailand.   https://th.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulate/bangkok/#:~:text=The mission of the United,protect U.S. citizens in Thailand.&text=The Embassy engages the government,Thailand to promote shared values.

 

[BobBKK]

So lets isolate all the Thais in other countries and deny them? I'm fed up with racist hypocrite Thais

[WaveHunter]

 

This is how I see it:  There is not enough vaccine presently in the supply chain to vaccinate both Thai nationals and foreigners in the high risk groups.  So, the policy of a sovereign nation is to first address the needs of its' own citizens, and then once supplies allow for vaccinating foreigners, they be next in line.

 

To me, there is nothing racist about such a policy, and I'm pretty sure that the Ministry of Health recognizes the urgency to the entire population that ALL high risk groups (regardless of nationality) be vaccinated as quickly as possible.  

 

When demand exceeds supply, prioritization like this is simply necessary.  It is NOT racist policy in any way; it is simply "Real World" logic.

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

My question is really what your view is.  Do you believe it is a racism issue, or are you (like me) only wanting clarification of WHEN we (as foreigners) can expect to be vaccinated, either by the government or by a private hospital (my preference).

 

As far as I'm concerned, it is a is a valid criticism that the Thai government is not being transparent about addressing the WHEN question...but that is a far cry from being racist.

No, I don't think it is racism per se.......just a very backward way of approaching the dilemma of what might be considered by many the best/most reasonable/most humane solution.

 

Just saying...... ALL THAIS FIRST......is not too clever.

[BobBKK]

6 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

My question is really what your view is.  Do you believe it is a racism issue, or are you (like me) only wanting clarification of WHEN we (as foreigners) can expect to be vaccinated, either by the government or by a private hospital (my preference).

 

As far as I'm concerned, it is a is a valid criticism that the Thai government is not being transparent about addressing the WHEN question...but that is a far cry from being racist.

 

HOW is it not being racist?  would USA deny Blacks?  how about denying Jews?  Gays?   which other countries deny giving vaccine to one race against another?

[joecoolfrog]

15 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

What does that mean; you believe it is or is not racism?

Racism , xenophobia , feudalism , it matters not , simply semantics , either way the policy is plain immoral.

With limited resources , those in most need should be vaccinated , end of story.

Being of influence should not shove one up the ladder and being the wrong race should not slide one down it.

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

 

This is how I see it:  There is not enough vaccine presently in the supply chain to vaccinate both Thai nationals and foreigners in the high risk groups.  So, the policy of a sovereign nation is to first address the needs of its' own citizens, and then once supplies allow for vaccinating foreigners, they be next in line.

 

To me, there is nothing racist about such a policy, and I'm pretty sure that the Ministry of Health recognizes the urgency to the entire population that ALL high risk groups (regardless of nationality) be vaccinated as quickly as possible.  

 

When demand exceeds supply, prioritization like this is simply necessary.

 

and WHY not enough vaccine??? and only 1% vaccinated when UK will be done 100% soon INCLUDING any Thais who happen to live in UK?  

 

The issues IS the idiots did not order and now apply measures based on????????????  RACE

[Fromas]

8 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

This is how I see it:

 

That is your view. Would you have a source or statement that the government will do this? Because at this point it's as clear as concrete.

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

No, I don't think it is racism per se.......just a very backward way of approaching the dilemma of what might be considered by many the best/most reasonable/most humane solution.

 

Just saying...... ALL THAIS FIRST......is not too clever.

Well, the policy is NOT "All Thais first"  It is "All Thai high risk groups first".  There's a big difference, ya know?  Think about it.  

 

For sure, the Thai government needs to be more transparent about WHEN foreigners can expect to be vaccinated, but too many who claim racism are assuming that all Thais will be vaccinated before any foreigners will be vaccinated.  That just unfounded misinformation.

 

Thai officials have NEVER said or inferred that, and there is no logical reason why they would. 

 

From a purely epidemiological perspective it would be insane to ignore any high risk group since they are most likely to spread the virus, and it is pretty ignorant to assume that the Thai Ministry of Health is not keenly aware of this as far as the high risk group of foreigners are concerned

Edited May 6, 2021 by WaveHunter