Are American Foreign Residents Totally Powerless?

[DogNo1]

Joe Biden has announced that 80 million doses of vaccines will be exported to unnamed countries between now and July.  America could donate millions of AstraZeneca vaccine to Thailand with the same proviso that China used: vaccinate a certain number of Americans (or foreigners) and get a certain number of doses donated.  Without donated vaccine from abroad, we elderly foreigners will need to spend the next 4-5 months in our rooms trying to stay well until we can be vsccinated.

Thailand's discriminatory vaccination policy must be publicized internationally.

 

It does seem to be true that the American big pharma companies were not willing to share their patents so other countries could not produce their vaccines locally. The short supply of vaccine is not just the fault of Thailand.  It is also due to the greed of American pharma.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

Joe Biden has announced that 80 million doses of vaccines will be exported to unnamed countries between now and July.  America could donate millions of AstraZeneca vaccine to Thailand with the same proviso that China used: vaccinate a certain number of Americans (or foreigners) and get a certain number of doses donated.  Without donated vaccine from abroad, we elderly foreigners will need to spend the next 4-5 months in our rooms trying to stay well until we can be vsccinated.

Thailand's discriminatory vaccination policy must be publicized internationally.

 

It does seem to be true that the American big pharma companies were not willing to share their patents so other countries could not produce their vaccines locally. The short supply of vaccine is not just the fault of Thailand.  It is also due to the greed of American pharma.

According to the news on tv, just giving the patents is going to do nothing. Those new vaccines are technologically difficult to make and most poor countries are incapable of making them. Also without giving the raw materials needed, they can't be made anyway.

More practical for the US companies to make them and the government to buy them to give to other countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

Joe Biden has announced that 80 million doses of vaccines will be exported to unnamed countries between now and July.

Google "how many million doses of covid vaccine is biden giving away" and you will see it's 20 million, NOT 80 million.

 

That's not even enough to vaccinate everyone in New Delhi ( population 21.75 million according to google )

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:32 AM, digbeth said:

What's stopping you from flyin home?

The Ospreys  busted.

[DogNo1]

The cost, time on flights and re-entry requirements and quarantine are a problem in returning to a US territory for a vaccine and make that option very costly.  I'm still hoping for the supply of vaccines to be increased here through donations.  Japan could become an option if their vaccine rollout speeds up.  I'm a permanent resident there.

Yesterday on TV Biden specified 80 million doses.  I think that at some point, the number increased.  It had been 20 million.

Perhaps no donated vaccine will come here but we could lobby for a share.  The situation regarding vaccines seems volatile and I'm hoping for a positive change..

[placnx]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

According to the news on tv, just giving the patents is going to do nothing. Those new vaccines are technologically difficult to make and most poor countries are incapable of making them. Also without giving the raw materials needed, they can't be made anyway.

More practical for the US companies to make them and the government to buy them to give to other countries.

This NYT article discusses the shortfall in world vaccine supply:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/05/17/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-cases/the-us-has-promised-80-million-vaccine-doses-to-other-countries-experts-say-it-isnt-nearly-enough

So the US Covax czar, Zients, is to prepare a plan for the G7 meet next month. I'm not optimistic considering that he seems to be blocking a national vaccination database, essential for rational international travel and public health.

 

The article notes that 11 billion doses are needed to vaccinate 70% of the world's population, not counting any boosters, and that to date combined production of Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J is 1.7bn. Seems to me that production capacity needs serious expansion, even though Moderna and others are increasing capacity by several billion doses by next year. Production of certain ingredients also needs to be augmented.

 

Since companies cannot create facilities for a production surge, it should be governments that construct these production facilities, which are then made available to mRNA and other similarly advanced vaccine producers as the need arises. We need to be ready to handle the next epidemic so it doesn't become a pandemic. It's a question of world security.

 

[DogNo1]

I couldn't agree with you more!  A lot of America's public money should be diverted to the purpose of building vaccine production centers.  So should the resources of other wealthy countries.

BTW, the cleaning staff told me that an Australian resident of the hotel was recently vaccinated at his embassy.  They asked me why I couldn't get vaccinated at my embassy.

Following up on a post on the forum, I telephoned St.Louis and was told that their registration list for June injections is already full.  I must try to register again in August.  I put my name on a list at Bumrungrad back in February but have had no response to my questions about being vaccinated there.

Also the husband of a woman who works at the South African Embassy will soon be vaccinated there.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

The cost, time on flights and re-entry requirements and quarantine are a problem in returning to a US territory for a vaccine and make that option very costly.  I'm still hoping for the supply of vaccines to be increased here through donations.  Japan could become an option if their vaccine rollout speeds up.  I'm a permanent resident there.

Yesterday on TV Biden specified 80 million doses.  I think that at some point, the number increased.  It had been 20 million.

Perhaps no donated vaccine will come here but we could lobby for a share.  The situation regarding vaccines seems volatile and I'm hoping for a positive change..

No change on google for 2 days so I'm sticking with 20 million.

 

Had you gone to Mali you could have got vaccinated as they just destroyed thousands of expired doses. Apparently not enough people want the jab.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, placnx said:

he article notes that 11 billion doses are needed to vaccinate 70% of the world's population, not counting any boosters,

Not counting any boosters???????????? Did the world population just increase by 3 billion?

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I couldn't agree with you more!  A lot of America's public money should be diverted to the purpose of building vaccine production centers.  So should the resources of other wealthy countries.

BTW, the cleaning staff told me that an Australian resident of the hotel was recently vaccinated at his embassy.  They asked me why I couldn't get vaccinated at my embassy.

Following up on a post on the forum, I telephoned St.Louis and was told that their registration list for June injections is already full.  I must try to register again in August.  I put my name on a list at Bumrungrad back in February but have had no response to my questions about being vaccinated there.

Also the husband of a woman who works at the South African Embassy will soon be vaccinated there.

Hmmmmm. I think the US and other western countries have other things to spend their money on besides giving free vaccines to the entire world population.

Taxes are already going to go up to pay for the existing massive debt, not including building more vaccine factories. Nothing is free.

[canthai55]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 Nothing is free.

Except advice - and that's because it ain't worth anything !!! 555

[placnx]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not counting any boosters???????????? Did the world population just increase by 3 billion?

Please bear in mind that 2 doses are needed for each person (except J&J). You might try to read the article. Very informative.

[placnx]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. I think the US and other western countries have other things to spend their money on besides giving free vaccines to the entire world population.

Taxes are already going to go up to pay for the existing massive debt, not including building more vaccine factories. Nothing is free.

If the US and other developed countries do not help the Third World, ineffective vaccines may be tried and new variants will develop through selective pressure. This will come back to bite the West (and Thailand). Keeping safe is not free!

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, placnx said:

Please bear in mind that 2 doses are needed for each person (except J&J). You might try to read the article. Very informative.

I'm aware of the two doses, but I take it that the second is a BOOSTER. The post I quoted specifically said boosters were not included in the 11 billion. If they are, the number of doses required should be over 15 billion.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, placnx said:

If the US and other developed countries do not help the Third World, ineffective vaccines may be tried and new variants will develop through selective pressure. This will come back to bite the West (and Thailand). Keeping safe is not free!

IMO the taxpayers are not going to accept vaccinating the entire planet at their expense, so forget about that.

[NanLaew]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:25 AM, DogNo1 said:

The absence of vaccines has dragged on for a long time.  The Thai government seems to be totally confused about whether, how and when American foreign residents will be vaccinated.  The dithering just goes on and on.   I think that it is time to appeal to the US Marines to fly in a squadron of Ospreys laden with vaccine supplies and land them on the embassy grounds on Wireless.  They could set up a small camp and remain long enough to allow all Americans in the country to come for a vaccination.  It's clear that the Thai government holds our lives in no regard.  The US military has run such missions before to rescue Americans whose lives were in danger.   We now need to call on the military to save our lives.  The Thai government certainly isn't going to do it.  Our lives are indeed in danger here and many of us can't easily fly out.

 

Can anybody get behind this and join a petition to the US Embassy or even the Pacific Command in Hawaii?  The time for inaction is past.  We must save ourselves!

 

I guess this is really going to grind your gears.

 

 

[placnx]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm aware of the two doses, but I take it that the second is a BOOSTER. The post I quoted specifically said boosters were not included in the 11 billion. If they are, the number of doses required should be over 15 billion.

Actually, no. The booster would be a third shot. In the Gulf they are even talking about a third shot for Sinopharm since 2 shots fell short in enough cases to be concerning.

 

Boosters are being developed by Pfizer and Moderna in the event that their vaccines do not produce sufficient neutralizing antibodies for emerging variants such as the Indian one. Neutralizing antibodies prevent infection and presumably transmission to others. 

[placnx]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the taxpayers are not going to accept vaccinating the entire planet at their expense, so forget about that.

Penny wise, pound foolish. What else is new? I didn't say that it would be free for all. Should depend on ability to pay.

Edited May 21, 2021 by placnx
vaccines would not necessarily be free

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

Actually, no. The booster would be a third shot. In the Gulf they are even talking about a third shot for Sinopharm since 2 shots fell short in enough cases to be concerning.

 

Boosters are being developed by Pfizer and Moderna in the event that their vaccines do not produce sufficient neutralizing antibodies for emerging variants such as the Indian one. Neutralizing antibodies prevent infection and presumably transmission to others. 

If it becomes necessary to have an annual shot, like flu, can any western country afford to be giving it to other countries? At some stage the money tree dies.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, placnx said:

Penny wise, pound foolish. What else is new? I didn't say that it would be free for all. Should depend on ability to pay.

IMO the mega rich in every country could probably afford to pay for their entire country's requirement. IMO make them pay before using western taxpayers to subsidise other countries.

[placnx]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it becomes necessary to have an annual shot, like flu, can any western country afford to be giving it to other countries? At some stage the money tree dies.

The point of developing means to produce and distribute a significantly bigger supply of good vaccines is to achieve herd immunity or nearly so. Some places will have outbreaks, but then resources can be directed to mopping up. EU, UK, Japan, AU, etc should participate in building up such capacity. We want to avoid the annual booster, a really daunting hurdle, not to mention the cost as you say.

 

The ultimate goal for the future is to have enough capacity between existing private capacity and additional government-owned facilities to be able to produce enough vaccine for the entire US population in 4 months or so. This timeframe includes 2 months for the preparation of equipment and selection of the mRNA instructions to incorporate in the vaccine. Process of vaccine production might take around 2 months. Once US needs were satisfied, the production would be distributed internationally. Once a future virus were detected and sequenced, in a year a US production rate of 600mn doses/mo would yield 4.8bn doses for international distribution. So partners would be needed to immunize the World. The idea is: next time -- stop the virus in its tracks before the deluge of variants.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:10 PM, placnx said:

The point of developing means to produce and distribute a significantly bigger supply of good vaccines is to achieve herd immunity or nearly so. Some places will have outbreaks, but then resources can be directed to mopping up. EU, UK, Japan, AU, etc should participate in building up such capacity. We want to avoid the annual booster, a really daunting hurdle, not to mention the cost as you say.

 

The ultimate goal for the future is to have enough capacity between existing private capacity and additional government-owned facilities to be able to produce enough vaccine for the entire US population in 4 months or so. This timeframe includes 2 months for the preparation of equipment and selection of the mRNA instructions to incorporate in the vaccine. Process of vaccine production might take around 2 months. Once US needs were satisfied, the production would be distributed internationally. Once a future virus were detected and sequenced, in a year a US production rate of 600mn doses/mo would yield 4.8bn doses for international distribution. So partners would be needed to immunize the World. The idea is: next time -- stop the virus in its tracks before the deluge of variants.

Just how much do you expect the US taxpayer to fork out every time there is similar? Even at say $10 a shot that's a fearsome amount of money to be paying for people not in the US.

The taxpayers would IMO vote out anyone suggesting that it's their responsibility to vaccinate the entire country, never mind the world.

[placnx]

37 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just how much do you expect the US taxpayer to fork out every time there is similar? Even at say $10 a shot that's a fearsome amount of money to be paying for people not in the US.

The taxpayers would IMO vote out anyone suggesting that it's their responsibility to vaccinate the entire country, never mind the world.

First of all, US would benefit by having the ability to produce vaccine for its population ASAP, then distribute to some countries free, others at cost, maybe some at profit, though that segment would likely be handled by pharma. In addition we would hopefully only produce a portion of the shortfall. EU, UK, Japan, Australia, and possibly others would have a similar program. If only some countries did this, it would be more than enough to cover the world population within a year. All of the concerned countries should source production of ingredients locally if possible to avoid delays and bottlenecks.

 

Assuming that an effective system of immigration control using a universally recognized digital health card would slow the spread of a virus and it's variants, a year would be a reasonable goal for fully vaccinating.

 

Think of the other benefits:

1) Avoiding a repeat of the current economic disruption - the damage and the expense;

2) Preventing China from making the Third World dependent on dodgy vaccines;

3) Saving millions of lives;

4) Restoring the soft power of the West and America's leadership of the democratic cohort;

5) When not in use for a pandemic emergency, the dedicated facilities would be rented to pharma for making cancer vaccines and other advanced medicines. There could be various tradeoffs for reducing the cost of normally extremely expensive medicines. This would speed the availability of new medicines as well.

 

You should be aware of the trillions spent by the US federal and state governments already. The costs of this proposal are miniscule in comparison. You could have a look at these:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/opinion/world-covid-vaccines.html

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6534/1107

 

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, placnx said:

You should be aware of the trillions spent by the US federal and state governments already.

Exactly, and the taxes are going up to pay for it. IMO the taxpayers are going to rebel. Can't say more or it gets political.

[placnx]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly, and the taxes are going up to pay for it. IMO the taxpayers are going to rebel. Can't say more or it gets political.

If you read the links, you might rethink. The costs are miniscule compared to current spending proposals (some of which are highly unlikely to get through).

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, placnx said:

If you read the links, you might rethink. The costs are miniscule compared to current spending proposals (some of which are highly unlikely to get through).

Don't get political, as that's banned on TVF now.

[Jingthing]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just how much do you expect the US taxpayer to fork out every time there is similar? Even at say $10 a shot that's a fearsome amount of money to be paying for people not in the US.

The taxpayers would IMO vote out anyone suggesting that it's their responsibility to vaccinate the entire country, never mind the world.

That's absurd. They could just charge expats a service fee. 

[Bangkok Basha]

An interesting item of note in an article from a Guam newsite says "that the Thailand government is trying to compete with Guam and asking the U.S. government for thousands of USDA-approved vaccines in order to vaccinate the thousands of American expatriates in Thailand." Has anyone heard anything about that here? 

 

 https://www.pncguam.com/interest-in-guams-vaccine-tourism-picking-up/?fbclid=IwAR2F-czttJIWKyCdi2su5DukfyjsNnlhXxzn6DgRXxso5puSGqG8E-Dcox4

[canthai55]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:26 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm. I think the US and other western countries have other things to spend their money on besides giving free vaccines to the entire world population.

Taxes are already going to go up to pay for the existing massive debt, not including building more vaccine factories. Nothing is free.

Maybe use some of the 1 Trillion they spend on defense

[Leaver]

On 5/21/2021 at 11:32 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the taxpayers are not going to accept vaccinating the entire planet at their expense, so forget about that.

 

But if such countries had oil, then I am sure arrangements could be made.  ????