Overseas and Overlooked, Americans in Thailand Seek Vaccines

[starky]

5 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Yes, they don't have any.  However bellyaching that somehow the US government should come to their rescue is misguided.   I am a U.S. citizen and came here of my own choice.  That means I live with the consequences and potential inconvenience.  Any of those crybabies who want the vaccine, try Travelocity for flight information and go back and get it instead of somehow thinking that the US should send the U.S.S. comfort ship and a crew of navy doctors because for you to fly home is inconvenient and waiting for the vaccine is something you just think is unconscionable. 

 

Post of the day ????????????????????????

[starky]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Conflicting news.

Believe it if and when it happens.

Not before.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/vaccine-explainer-thailands-vaccines-and-timeline/

 

For non-citizens, only pink card holders (Permanent Residents), who are either 60 or older or have any of the seven health problems mentioned above can register now for vaccination in June or July, while foreign diplomats will also be eligible for jabs on a voluntary basis.

The criteria and plans for future vaccination of other non-Thai citizens remain unclear.

Where ever did you get the idea that pink card holders are permanent residents? You really need to stop with all the fear mongering and falsehoods. Wait till June or July or actually August according to the new look ahead is when the general population in Thailand can register for a jab. Until such time your in the same boat as all the Thai people who by the way also aren't vaccinated. 

  You have an obvious choice as a US citizen if your in such a hurry to get vaccinated....

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, starky said:

Where ever did you get the idea that pink card holders are permanent residents? You really need to stop with all the fear mongering and falsehoods. Wait till June or July or actually August according to the new look ahead is when the general population in Thailand can register for a jab. Until such time your in the same boat as all the Thai people who by the way also aren't vaccinated. 

  You have an obvious choice as a US citizen if your in such a hurry to get vaccinated....

Stop it Just stop it!

That was a quote from the link.

The topic is the topic.

It's not me.

That link was posted by ThaiVisa and I've reposted it 

 

Now here's what I actually said about that permanent residence thing.

I don't expect an apology.

But again . Stop it.

 

 

.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Troll post removed. 

[sirineou]

Is the petition to vaccinate all Americans in every country in the world. or Only Americans in Thailand because they are special?

[DogNo1]

Well, the idea is to vaccinate people equitably without prioritizing one nationality over another which is now what the Thai government has decided to do.  

[GinBoy2]

52 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Is the petition to vaccinate all Americans in every country in the world. or Only Americans in Thailand because they are special?

Exactly.

 

This is a nonsense topic really, since as I've said before no country is ever going to be shipping vaccines around the world for citizens who have chosen to live overseas.

 

Even the Brits who generally seem to think they are on a higher plane of expat existence don't expect the foreign office to be shipping in AZ vaccines in a diplomatic pouch for them.

 

For God's sake wake up, smell the roses, you'll all on your own and dependent on the country you live in, or get on a goddam plane and go get one back home if you are that worried about it

[Jingthing]

It's a good question to ask about whether this is about one country or all countries.

To answer that isn't very difficult. 

Definitely not all countries.

 

Three basic categories:

 

Countries with good existing vaccine programs where the vaccine program is allowing expats similar access as citizens. In other words, if they have a priority system based on certain criteria such as age, expats are included. Whether the expats are charged or not is irrelevant. 

DO NOT ASSIST EXPATS

 

Countries like Thailand which happens to be just getting started with it's mass vaccine program. Thailand is most definitely NOT including expats in a non-discriminatory manner as far as priority categories. 

CONSIDER ASSISTING EXPATS

Basket case countries that are far, far behind Thailand where a mass vaccine program is far into the future. This is difficult. The expats need the vaccines but it's a political powder keg for a world power like the USA to help only it's nationals, and not the entire countries.

CONSIDER INCLUDING EXPATS AS PART OF VACCINE NATIONALISM EXPORTS

 

Yes, I said it. Vaccine nationalism. Russia is doing it. China is doing it. The writing on the wall is that the USA will soon be doing it. 

 

That is MASSIVE EXPORTS of U.S. associated vaccines globally. Thai is going to happen. The only question is how many millions of doses, to which specific countries, and when. 

 

Now assuming that is going to happen (it will) it would be obscene to send millions of doses to a particular country and then tolerate having that country discriminate against U.S. nationals. So that could easily be part of the deal. Of course it's desirable for all especially the expats if the countries they're living in treat them without discrimination.  Much better than an embassy vaccine program.

 

Thailand could also potentially be a target for American vaccine nationalism. 

 

At this point in Thailand, the ship of hoping for expat non-discrimination has sailed. The vast majority of  expats in the high risk group over 60 / certain conditions were not allowed to register for June vaccines. So the discrimination has begun. We don't yet know what the ultimate extent of it will be yet, but the case for the embassy to help expats in Thailand has already been established. 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Jingthing

[sirineou]

37 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

Well, the idea is to vaccinate people equitably without prioritizing one nationality over another which is now what the Thai government has decided to do.  

It is the only thing to do.

Despite popular belief among farangs Thais are not stupid, they understand that the virus does not know who is Thai and who is farang, and will just as happily  find a home on a farang living in thailand, and proceed to do what viruses do best, which is infect others, as it would on a Thai.

If they are to control this pandemic, They need to vaccinate and  eliminate as many possible hosts as possible  to achieve herd immunity. 

[Walker88]

Americans can be such snowflakes. Too many think an Embassy should be their personal concierge. Oh, but they 'pay taxes'!  How much? What services do they get for 'all that money' they pay? Military. AN FDA that checks both food and medicine for safety. Decent roads and airports (sometimes). Public schools. FEMA assistance in the event of a disaster. Air traffic control. Deposit insurance in the event a bank goes bust. The list is huge, and NOBODY pays for all of it (hence the $trillion deficits). Also, one cannot pick and choose what services should get 'all the taxes I paid'. Democracy is like that.

 

So now some people expect the USG should put in proper cold storage and ship internationally to every nation on Earth where some Americans have decided to retire, work, visit or just hang out, two doses each of a vaccine?

 

"Hi Mr Consular Officer. I'm at Base Camp on Everest. When are you going to send someone up here to give me my vaccine. I'm a taxpayer, you know!" (Yes, reduce to the ridiculous, but I think the point is clear.)

 

A person who lives in Greenwich, CT can drive to a CVS and get his vaccine. He costs the taxpayer, on a marginal basis, not so much. He certainly costs the taxpayer a lot less than some guy who decided to retire 12000 miles away from the US. The 320 million or so Americans who are resident within US borders might object and say if Mr. Living the Dream wants a vaccine, he can fly home and get it.

 

An Embassy has a host of functions. A very tiny portion of those functions are Citizen's Services. The State Dept assumes Americans who choose to travel internationally are adult enough to accept personal responsibility. That would include staying solvent, taking care of one's health and safety, understanding the local laws and accepting that private citizens are subject to those laws, etc.

 

True story:  a few years ago some American came to Thailand in order to get 'the unkindest cut of all'. The day after his neutering, he had second thoughts. He called the Embassy in Bangkok and demanded a Consular Officer get a hold of the man's excised junk and reattach it.

 

Lots of demands are made on Embassies by 'taxpayers'.

[futsukayoi]

20 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I do remember that, but you have to take into the context and consideration that China supplied them with the Sinovac vaccine in whatever deal was made, while the US itself has not made any deals in sending Thailand vaccines.

In fact the US had taken the opposite stance withits export ban on vaccines and materials to make them.  However The UK and Europe provided huge funding to Asta-Zeneca which Thailand is being allowed to produce under license with no profit being made.  Since that will form the basis for the vast majority of Thailands vaccine effort there is much more of a moral obligation to those countries than China. Not that morals is in the vocabulary of the current leadership.

[DogNo1]

How much do you suppose that the current shipment of tens of millions of doses to India is costing the US?

[Misty]

It seems fair that US expats ask to be considered for vaccination from the US surplus.  Kudos to all the groups in the article that are raising the issue with the relevant US gov't bodies.

 

Some expats pay a significant amount of income tax each year, both in the US and in Thailand.  Meanwhile, US taxpayer money went to fund vaccine research. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/22/health/us-coronavirus-vaccine-funding/index.html  And the US is now about to have large surpluses of vaccine which it plans to send overseas anyway. 

 

Although I'd personally love to jump on a plane back to the US, unfortunately it's not so easy with uncertain return dates and when you're running a Thai company and have visa and work permit renewals coming up.  It might be a lot cheaper, safer, and more environmentally friendly to just move the surplus vaccines here. And I'd certainly pay for the vaccine.

 

 

[Emdog]

8 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Americans can be such snowflakes. Too many think an Embassy should be their personal concierge. Oh, but they 'pay taxes'!  How much? What services do they get for 'all that money' they pay? Military. AN FDA that checks both food and medicine for safety. Decent roads and airports (sometimes). Public schools. FEMA assistance in the event of a disaster. Air traffic control. Deposit insurance in the event a bank goes bust. The list is huge, and NOBODY pays for all of it (hence the $trillion deficits). Also, one cannot pick and choose what services should get 'all the taxes I paid'. Democracy is like that.

 

So now some people expect the USG should put in proper cold storage and ship internationally to every nation on Earth where some Americans have decided to retire, work, visit or just hang out, two doses each of a vaccine?

 

"Hi Mr Consular Officer. I'm at Base Camp on Everest. When are you going to send someone up here to give me my vaccine. I'm a taxpayer, you know!" (Yes, reduce to the ridiculous, but I think the point is clear.)

 

A person who lives in Greenwich, CT can drive to a CVS and get his vaccine. He costs the taxpayer, on a marginal basis, not so much. He certainly costs the taxpayer a lot less than some guy who decided to retire 12000 miles away from the US. The 320 million or so Americans who are resident within US borders might object and say if Mr. Living the Dream wants a vaccine, he can fly home and get it.

 

An Embassy has a host of functions. A very tiny portion of those functions are Citizen's Services. The State Dept assumes Americans who choose to travel internationally are adult enough to accept personal responsibility. That would include staying solvent, taking care of one's health and safety, understanding the local laws and accepting that private citizens are subject to those laws, etc.

 

True story:  a few years ago some American came to Thailand in order to get 'the unkindest cut of all'. The day after his neutering, he had second thoughts. He called the Embassy in Bangkok and demanded a Consular Officer get a hold of the man's excised junk and reattach it.

 

Lots of demands are made on Embassies by 'taxpayers'.

"Oh, but they 'pay taxes'!  How much?" I pay the same federal income taxes as I would if I were in the US.

"What services do they get for 'all that money' they pay? Military. AN FDA that checks both food and medicine for safety. Decent roads and airports (sometimes). Public schools. FEMA assistance in the event of a disaster. Air traffic control. Deposit insurance in the event a bank goes bust."  We expats don't get those "services" except maybe FDIC if have account back home. When is the last time US FDA checked food and medicine here? Yeah, right.

"Some U.S. expats, however, remember when U.S. government personnel inoculated American expats.

When Gary Suwannarat first moved to Thailand in the 1980s, she and her family were vaccinated against hepatitis B, a major public health concern in Asia at the time, on the grounds of the U.S. Consulate in the northern Thai city of Chiang Mai."  https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/overseas-and-overlooked-americans-thailand-seek-vaccines

"Our Mission

The U.S. Department of State leads America’s foreign policy through diplomacy, advocacy, and assistance by advancing the interests of the American people, their safety and economic prosperity."

Safety? During a Pandemic? Thank you, State Department

[DogNo1]

Jingthing:. There have been so many announcements and counter-announcements that they can be confusing. Are you sure that foreigners are not now being included with Thais?  I received a call from Bumrungrad three days ago saying that I was on their list.  They didn't say what the time frame was but I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that its injections would proceed in parallel with those individuals on the government Mor Por list with the private hospitals receiving their vaccines from a separate source.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Emdog said:

"Oh, but they 'pay taxes'!  How much?" I pay the same federal income taxes as I would if I were in the US.

"What services do they get for 'all that money' they pay? Military. AN FDA that checks both food and medicine for safety. Decent roads and airports (sometimes). Public schools. FEMA assistance in the event of a disaster. Air traffic control. Deposit insurance in the event a bank goes bust."  We expats don't get those "services" except maybe FDIC if have account back home. When is the last time US FDA checked food and medicine here? Yeah, right.

"Some U.S. expats, however, remember when U.S. government personnel inoculated American expats.

When Gary Suwannarat first moved to Thailand in the 1980s, she and her family were vaccinated against hepatitis B, a major public health concern in Asia at the time, on the grounds of the U.S. Consulate in the northern Thai city of Chiang Mai."  https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/overseas-and-overlooked-americans-thailand-seek-vaccines

"Our Mission

The U.S. Department of State leads America’s foreign policy through diplomacy, advocacy, and assistance by advancing the interests of the American people, their safety and economic prosperity."

Safety? During a Pandemic? Thank you, State Department

 

Well argued. Remember that some of those people making aggressive and angry posts that want us denied services our taxes have paid for are people who have left or no longer live in Thailand. Many had a bad experience, and this is their way of getting revenge on those who remain here without the same problems. Others are people who have already received their vaccines and may have flown home in a snit to do so. The "got theirs" after going home crowd want to see everybody put through the grinder just like them. 

[friendofthai]

I think China Russia and Iran are the best destinations for American people who want to be vaccinated. All of these countries are vaccine producers. And all of them also have embassies in Bangkok to assist the trip. Traveling to America to get Pfizered is too expensive now.

[Misty]

9 minutes ago, friendofthai said:

I think China Russia and Iran are the best destinations for American people who want to be vaccinated. All of these countries are vaccine producers. And all of them also have embassies in Bangkok to assist the trip. Traveling to America to get Pfizered is too expensive now.

Ha ha.  Meanwhile, friends flying back to the US report their planes are filled with wealthy and connected Thais..... 

[John Drake]

14 hours ago, starky said:

Do you imagine Americans are the only ones who pay taxes in their home countries? I've been living here 20 years and pay upwards of 50k Aussie dollars to my government every year. As one poster said you chose to come here to find a better place to live or what ever reason your here. You may not be the only ones paying taxes in your birth country but your certainly the ones doing all the wringing about not being able to get a vaccine.

 

This topic is about American taxpayers in Thailand wanting the US government to supply them services their tax dollars have paid for. It's not about Australia. 

[Sheryl]

It is not reasonable to expect the US government to vaccinate people in Thailand, nor to pay to bring them back to the US for vaccination.

 

It is however reasonable to ask the embassy to advocate for our inclusion in the local vaccine effort and to seek clarification on eligibility, which at present is far from clear, due to very contradictory statements appearing almost daily from government.

 

I urge at least those who are otherwise eligible in Phase II (i.e. over 60 or with chronic disease) to contact the Embassy along these lines.

 

 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is not reasonable to expect the US government to vaccinate people in Thailand

 

Why is it unreasonable, as the OP indicates it has been done before?

[Misty]

13 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Why is it unreasonable, as the OP indicates it has been done before?

 

Yes, and reportedly the Chinese are doing it.  https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-16/China-s-embassy-in-Egypt-launches-vaccination-drive-for-Chinese--YG6K90IqEE/index.html

 

If the US is sending surplus vaccines overseas anyway, why would this be unreasonable?

[starky]

30 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This topic is about American taxpayers in Thailand wanting the US government to supply them services their tax dollars have paid for. It's not about Australia. 

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[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, Misty said:

 

Yes, and reportedly the Chinese are doing it.  https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-16/China-s-embassy-in-Egypt-launches-vaccination-drive-for-Chinese--YG6K90IqEE/index.html

 

If the US is sending surplus vaccines overseas anyway, why would this be unreasonable?

 

This issue of protecting your nationals is a vital ones. From all appearances, the Chinese are making that a priority in their foreign policy: treat a Chinese citizen badly = treating China badly. The relative strength of a country is reflected in this, and the Chinese know it. The US and its embassies' lack of a backbone on this issue makes the US look weak and ineffectual.

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Why is it unreasonable, as the OP indicates it has been done before?

Because there are many times more Americans in Thailand now than there were back then. The Embassy would be overwhelmed.

[John Drake]

Just now, placeholder said:

Because there are many times more Americans in Thailand now than there were back then. The Embassy would be overwhelmed.

 

That might be a good point. I don't know. Are there more Americans here than in 1980? There were a large number of Vietnam veterans who settled in Thailand after the war, in addition to the usual number of businessmen and businesswomen. I suspect, although I don't know, that the number of USAID workers, educators, and refugee workers back then was much higher. I would be interested to see the numbers on this, especially as I have another suspicion that since Covid a large portion of the Americans who were in Thailand have left. The few times I've been to Chaengwattana since Covid provides anecdotal evidence that this might be the case, as during my visits I have seen few Westerners, much less Americans.

[GinBoy2]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

This issue of protecting your nationals is a vital ones. From all appearances, the Chinese are making that a priority in their foreign policy: treat a Chinese citizen badly = treating China badly. The relative strength of a country is reflected in this, and the Chinese know it. The US and its embassies' lack of a backbone on this issue makes the US look weak and ineffectual.

You do realize that Beijing doesn't even publish vaccination rates for its own country.

 

The best you can do is look at HK rates which are well below the average.

 

China isn't exporting excess doses but more as a diplomatic leverage issue

 

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/

[billsmart]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There are doses available but they are not available to expats. This is a particularly atrocious situation for high risk expats bring blocked from access on the same schedule as Thais. Does it need to be spelled out what the consequences will be from this?

 

This is why this is an exceptional situation where embassies really should step in to help their own nationals during this historically momentous global pandemic. They won't for the most part but they still really should. 

I just registered (with some help, but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

Edited May 12, 2021 by billsmart
Added comment

[billsmart]

I posted earlier. I am an "American" (U.S. citizen), and I just registered (with some help. but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I just registered (with some help, but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

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