Overseas and Overlooked, Americans in Thailand Seek Vaccines

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

You do realize that Beijing doesn't even publish vaccination rates for its own country.

 

The best you can do is look at HK rates which are well below the average.

 

China isn't exporting excess doses but more as a diplomatic leverage issue

 

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/

 

Very early on, I remember seeing that Sinopharm was being used for domestic vaccination, while Sinovac was used for export. At any rate China made Thailand's access to Sinovac conditional upon Thailand giving priority to Chinese nationals in Thailand. I'm not condemning China for this. Quite the opposite.  

 

[Misty]

18 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

You do realize that Beijing doesn't even publish vaccination rates for its own country.

 

The best you can do is look at HK rates which are well below the average.

 

China isn't exporting excess doses but more as a diplomatic leverage issue

 

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/health/global-covid-vaccinations/

The UK's Financial Times has been reporting vaccination numbers for 219 countries including China, updated pretty much every day. China's reported figures lagged other countries for a long time, but have recently picked up.  As of the last update (10 May) China reports administering 333m doses, with total doses per 100 residents being 23.8, placing it just behind French Polynesia.

 

Globally, the FT reports that 1.3 billion doses have been administered as of 10 May.  https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

[Misty]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because there are many times more Americans in Thailand now than there were back then. The Embassy would be overwhelmed.

 

How many Americans are in Thailand now?  I've tried to find this figure and haven't been able to. The only firm number I've seen is the number of work permit holders.

[John Drake]

Just now, Misty said:

 

How many Americans are in Thailand now?  I've tried to find this figure and haven't been able to. The only firm number I've seen is the number of work permit holders.

 

I would like to know this, too, especially in the wake of Covid.

[John Drake]

29 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because there are many times more Americans in Thailand now than there were back then. The Embassy would be overwhelmed.

 

I might also add that not only were the Chinese seemingly effective at getting the Thais to pay for a Chinese vaccine that was then given as a priority to Chinese in Thailand but they apparently got the Thais to do the administering of the vaccine for them.

[GinBoy2]

5 minutes ago, Misty said:

The UK's Financial Times has been reporting vaccination numbers for 219 countries including China, updated pretty much every day. China's reported figures lagged other countries for a long time, but have recently picked up.  As of the last update (10 May) China reports administering 333m doses, with total doses per 100 residents being 23.8, placing it just behind French Polynesia.

 

Globally, the FT reports that 1.3 billion doses have been administered as of 10 May.  https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

Good data, hadn't seen this.

 

But it pretty much confirms what I said about China exporting doses for political purposes.

Every Government in the world, should at least be prioritizing their own citizens first

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

I might also add that not only were the Chinese seemingly effective at getting the Thais to pay for a Chinese vaccine that was then given as a priority to Chinese in Thailand but they apparently got the Thais to do the administering of the vaccine for them.

That's a fair point. The US is going to have a big surplus of vaccine doses. Why not give them away on condition that its nationals get treated the same as the locals.

[GinBoy2]

23 minutes ago, Misty said:

The UK's Financial Times has been reporting vaccination numbers for 219 countries including China, updated pretty much every day. China's reported figures lagged other countries for a long time, but have recently picked up.  As of the last update (10 May) China reports administering 333m doses, with total doses per 100 residents being 23.8, placing it just behind French Polynesia.

 

Globally, the FT reports that 1.3 billion doses have been administered as of 10 May.  https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker/?areas=gbr&areas=isr&areas=usa&areas=eue&cumulative=1&populationAdjusted=1

I just took another look at that chart, and without wanting to derail this thread, OMG how are the Europeans, some of the richest people on the planet only getting around 10% vaccination figures?

[Misty]

18 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I just took another look at that chart, and without wanting to derail this thread, OMG how are the Europeans, some of the richest people on the planet only getting around 10% vaccination figures?

 

Not sure but would guess there's a number of contributing factors, including fall-out over AZ...

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

I just registered (with some help, but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

Most expats don't have the number to be able to register that way.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It is not reasonable to expect the US government to vaccinate people in Thailand, nor to pay to bring them back to the US for vaccination.

 

It is however reasonable to ask the embassy to advocate for our inclusion in the local vaccine effort and to seek clarification on eligibility, which at present is far from clear, due to very contradictory statements appearing almost daily from government.

 

I urge at least those who are otherwise eligible in Phase II (i.e. over 60 or with chronic disease) to contact the Embassy along these lines.

 

 

That's a fair analysis but I want to focus on the word expect. Of course we don't expect them to but many of  us think that they should because:

 

This is a once in a century global pandemic 

 

Its already clear that the majority of high risk Americans are being  blocked from non discriminatory priority access

 

I agree trying to get the Thai government to treat us in a non discriminatory way sounds good but we all know by now that even when they announce such things actual followup on the ground is far from assured

 

So given all that I think the US government should strongly consider making an exception this time in light of historically extraordinary circumstances.

 

I don’t expect you to agree. That's OK.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[placnx]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:22 PM, pookondee said:

Politicians are only interested in the larger groups that have voting power, and everyone else is but an annoyance.

 

Embassy staff are of much the same ilk.

The last thing they want to do is be bothered by the plebs wanting help.

 

Thats the way its been since the 90's.

Probably even well before that 

In 1970 in Paris my passport was stolen in a post office. When I went to the Embassy to get a new one, I had to have an American who knew me go along. The consul said that the passport was temporary and I would have to apply a certain time afterwards to extend, and that I would have to wait 6 weeks wherever I was for the authorization. She also asked about my draft card, which I said was in a safe in the US. Later I was in Kabul with the same friend, and it happened that the consul was a friend of her brother. When I asked the consul about the extension, he said that for $10 he could send a cable to Washington to get immediate authorization.

[placnx]

23 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

First off, I never want to get myself in a situation where 1 trip would be a strain on my finances.

 

Second, is why these people think the US govt owe them anything once they move away.

 

If you make a choice to move to the third world, live with it, deal with it.

 

Third thing, the provided literature by Moderna states vaccine effectivity is 6 months. Why fly anywhere for a vaccine that is only good for 6 months; then what.

 

I have had both Moderna in the US and will need the booster vaccine sometime around August time frame. How long that will be good for is anyone's guess right now.

 

Stay put, stay home, where a mask if you must get your necessities, social distance. That is really all you can do.

 

The vaccine is NO guarantee you won't STILL get Covid as some have found out in the US.

 

Thailand has all kinds of strains from everywhere. Is one vaccine going to cover all of them?

 

 

Moderna may have had usefulness up to six months when the circular was printed. Finding out how long the vaccination is protective is a work in progress. The variants are present in many countries, but research shows that they are fairly well countered by Moderna and Pfizer, less so by AZ. Checking the vaccines against the Indian double mutant variant has not been done yet AFAIK. After vaccination, mask wearing is still advised.

[placnx]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's a good question to ask about whether this is about one country or all countries.

To answer that isn't very difficult. 

Definitely not all countries.

 

Three basic categories:

 

Countries with good existing vaccine programs where the vaccine program is allowing expats similar access as citizens. In other words, if they have a priority system based on certain criteria such as age, expats are included. Whether the expats are charged or not is irrelevant. 

DO NOT ASSIST EXPATS

 

Countries like Thailand which happens to be just getting started with it's mass vaccine program. Thailand is most definitely NOT including expats in a non-discriminatory manner as far as priority categories. 

CONSIDER ASSISTING EXPATS

Basket case countries that are far, far behind Thailand where a mass vaccine program is far into the future. This is difficult. The expats need the vaccines but it's a political powder keg for a world power like the USA to help only it's nationals, and not the entire countries.

CONSIDER INCLUDING EXPATS AS PART OF VACCINE NATIONALISM EXPORTS

 

Yes, I said it. Vaccine nationalism. Russia is doing it. China is doing it. The writing on the wall is that the USA will soon be doing it. 

 

That is MASSIVE EXPORTS of U.S. associated vaccines globally. Thai is going to happen. The only question is how many millions of doses, to which specific countries, and when. 

 

Now assuming that is going to happen (it will) it would be obscene to send millions of doses to a particular country and then tolerate having that country discriminate against U.S. nationals. So that could easily be part of the deal. Of course it's desirable for all especially the expats if the countries they're living in treat them without discrimination.  Much better than an embassy vaccine program.

 

Thailand could also potentially be a target for American vaccine nationalism. 

 

At this point in Thailand, the ship of hoping for expat non-discrimination has sailed. The vast majority of  expats in the high risk group over 60 / certain conditions were not allowed to register for June vaccines. So the discrimination has begun. We don't yet know what the ultimate extent of it will be yet, but the case for the embassy to help expats in Thailand has already been established. 

 

The US should build factories for advanced vaccines and their ingredients so that together with existing domestic capacity sufficient doses for the US population could be produced in two months after vaccine design and preparation (hopefully 2 months also). It might be possible to do in 6 months under the defense Production Act. Better late than never. The idea is to produce for the world after US needs are met. EU, UK, AU, JP, KR should do the same. Attached articles explain pretty well.

The World Is Desperate for More Covid Vaccines NYT 12jan21.pdf Market design to accelerate COVID-19 vaccine supply Science 12mar21.pdf

[Enzian]

American. I stopped by Bumrungrad on my walk this evening to see if every possible relevant detail (pink card number, passport number, phone #, new address, correct DOB, etc.) was in their file on me. I've had a membership card and number since 2013. My excuse for going in was that they had emailed me a promotional offer of a 10% discount on any work in my birthday month of May. My birthday is in December, as my membership card clearly says; this did not leave me feeling confident. 

The registrations and admissions room was empty except for me and three clerks. The lady updated my file in the computer system in front of her. I then said now, this means I am registered and you will contact me when you are able to give me an appointment for vaccination, correct? She was like, oh-you want to be registered? I resisted the impulse to commit homicide. I said yes. She claimed I would be contacted. I guess I've done the best I can for now. 

Tomorrow my girlfriend and I will try again to get the infamous app to accept my pink card number.

Be safe everyone. 

[billsmart]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

14 hours ago, billsmart said:

I just registered (with some help, but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

Most expats don't have the number to be able to register that way.

Yes, good point. In my previous posts on this topic, I've just considered long-term visa holders like me, not those here on tourist visas. I do agree tourists should be able to get more help from the embassy. I've lived here in Thailand for almost 20 years now and try not to rely on the US Embassy for anything critical I need.

[billsmart]

14 hours ago, Surelynot said:

14 hours ago, billsmart said:

I just registered (with some help, but not from my embassy) with the Thai government app, Mor Prom, and scheduled an appointment to get my first vaccine shot at my local, government hospital on Jun 7!

 

I don't know which vaccine it will be, but... any port in a storm.

Pink ID?

Yes, and a Yellow Book and driver's license, etc., but all I needed to fill out all the details on Mor Prom was my Pink Card. And, as I just posted elsewhere on this topic, I've lived here in Thailand for almost 20 years and don't rely on the US Embassy for anything critical to my day-to-day life. I do agree that tourists should be able to expect more direct help from our embassy.

 

 

[Kanada]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:41 PM, Pattaya Spotter said:

You do know that airlines are still selling tickets for "phantom" flights that never take off, right? But they're happy to take your money now and re-schedule you for a flight sometime within the next year or two.

Actually true

[Kanada]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:30 PM, Aomelia said:

I just booked a Japan Airlines Ticket go San Francisco 800 dollars RT , DEAL , coming back Oct 1 I hope quarantine is finished by then 

I wish you luck but you may be gone a lot longer than October ????

[John Drake]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

That's a fair point. The US is going to have a big surplus of vaccine doses. Why not give them away on condition that its nationals get treated the same as the locals.

 

That would mean that the US government and its embassies are just as capable as the Chinese and care just as much for their nationals abroad as the Chinese. Do they?

[Aomelia]

On 5/11/2021 at 2:41 PM, Pattaya Spotter said:

You do know that airlines are still selling tickets for "phantom" flights that never take off, right? But they're happy to take your money now and re-schedule you for a flight sometime within the next year or two.

I look at Tracker and flights are going , thx though 

[Kanada]

6 hours ago, Kanada said:

Actually true

The flights being sold are legit I believe...they wouldn’t be allowed to sell flights that did t exist but they are allowed to keep rescheduling as people cancel etc. until they get enough people to make a flight viable!

Govt has to be careful and not lose an entire airline and all its jobs by forcing them to fly empty or near empty!

it’s a catch 22????

[John Drake]

The single most important thing in this topic is that, according to the link within the story to the original article from VOA, the US embassy has supplied vaccines before now to Americans living in Thailand. So, getting a little tired of hearing how it's impossible to do so today, in a time of better global infrastructure and distribution, not to mention far better Thai transportation and distribution, than when they did it before in the 1980s.