Over to you crypto fanboys

[1FinickyOne]

3 hours ago, Heng said:

When the market is down, just zoom out and do something else.

at my age we don't zoom anything... we dawdle, we bemuse and bemoan, and we still skype...

[Sametboy2019]

38 minutes ago, Drew3223 said:

Hear hear.

 

Any thoughts on the XRP SEC case? 

 

They say it's a security. XRP say it's an asset. 

 

It's very obviously an asset, but some people think SEC are trying to use the case to regulate and to push XRP into becoming the digital currency of the QFS.

 

I'm all in on XRP. 

The issues is with sales of XRP in its start up. When it quite clearly was a security (as was Eurethem and there is a interview with the founder admitting it but they seem to of got a pass).

When you look at XRP there imho it is quite clearly a currency with great utility. The ability to bridge currencies almost instantly and a ridiculously small fee.  

Although other crypto can do this it seems at the moment Ripple are in front as they have already secured contracts. 

I believe it will be settled but who knows when.

On another note now is the best time to invest in Crypto after that crash a couple of days ago.

[Drew3223]

4 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

The issues is with sales of XRP in its start up. When it quite clearly was a security (as was Eurethem and there is a interview with the founder admitting it but they seem to of got a pass).

When you look at XRP there imho it is quite clearly a currency with great utility. The ability to bridge currencies almost instantly and a ridiculously small fee.  

Although other crypto can do this it seems at the moment Ripple are in front as they have already secured contracts. 

I believe it will be settled but who knows when.

On another note now is the best time to invest in Crypto after that crash a couple of days ago.

Hence the recent success in securing internal comms on why SEC are not pursuing BC and ETH in the same way.

 

Settlement seems likely, and I like the idea that XRP will lead the way on regulation of crypto. Was always going to happen, so why not be first in line, setting the agenda as much as you can?

[Sametboy2019]

1 minute ago, Drew3223 said:

Hence the recent success in securing internal comms on why SEC are not pursuing BC and ETH in the same way.

 

Settlement seems likely, and I like the idea that XRP will lead the way on regulation of crypto. Was always going to happen, so why not be first in line, setting the agenda as much as you can?

 what agenda? 

[Drew3223]

Just now, Sametboy2019 said:

 what agenda? 

Regulatory framework. How and when and where.

[Sametboy2019]

Just now, Drew3223 said:

Regulatory framework. How and when and where.

It's just a opinion. Gensler is on record saying there needs regulations.

FYI I'm holding XRP and a half dozen more Crpytos. It's only getting bigger and better!

[allanos]

"Elton" should also man up! Tesla is not making its money from manufacturing and selling motor cars (however they are paid for).

 

Other than the windfall from the Bitcoin Tesla bought for their Treasury, Tesla makes its money from selling carbon credits.

 

For this, they need to be plugged in to the US Government.

 

Someone must have given Elton a wake-up call, so he decided to do a bit of virtue-signalling, declaring that Bitcoin is an affront to ESG etc., even though the facts are that the majority of Bitcoin mining is green.  Has anyone taken a look at the mining industry for example, gold, and the energy it consumes compared with Bitcoin?

 

But note, Elton and Tesla are not selling any of their Bitcoin, so what does that tell you?

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Well I would agree with you if you consider Bullard and Roubini as people with no understanding about how things work.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/m/6bfa4be4-1ab3-3ede-b8a8-46403948e68a/bitcoin-isn’t-a-currency-or.html

 

Bitcoin isn’t a currency or financial asset, but ‘looks like a bubble’: Roubini

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-feds-bullard-most-cryptocurrencies-are-worthless-193226315.html

 

St. Louis Fed's Bullard: Most cryptocurrencies are 'worthless'

 

Instead, the people with zero understanding, are IMO those who base the value of anything on a tweet from Musk.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-rises-near-40k-musk-204206411.html

 

Bitcoin Rises to Near $40K After Musk Tweets About BTC Mining’s ‘Promising’ Renewable Usage

 

I notice you hand pick a couple of quotes from notable haters. Most cryptos are indeed pretty much worthless as they're mere clones, the penny stocks of the crypto ecosystem.

 

I'll add a quote to your doom and gloom mongering above : Ray Dalio (CIO of Bridgewater Associates, the largest hedge fund in the world) saying he holds Bitcoin and would rather hold it than bonds - this was yesterday.

 

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, gearbox said:

The only way for the governments to sort out the private crypto currencies is to to completely outlaw them, and this is going to happen gradually, country by country.

No, it's not.

[worgeordie]

What's the latest Crypto coin to come out, I was thinking of

doing one my self, why not , it will be called the TOON Coin,

think I will start it off at 10 cents US, get in quick the price

will rocket.........????  

regards Worgeordie

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, gearbox said:

Err...I have been dealing with proper cryptography since mid nineties,  when some of these "crypto" investors were still walking under the kitchen table.

 

Haven't we all.

 

5 hours ago, gearbox said:

I've even met a few times the Aussie who claims to be the Bitcoin inventor, he didn't strike me as brilliant mathematician or cryptographer back then.

I wouldn't believe a word of what Criag says, he's a charlatan.

[The Cipher]

5 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

What's the latest Crypto coin to come out, I was thinking of

doing one my self, why not , it will be called the TOON Coin,

think I will start it off at 10 cents US, get in quick the price

will rocket.........????  

regards Worgeordie

 

Let us know how this goes ????

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, allanos said:

I believe his input and response iro XRP may be more nuanced and that there will be some kind of settlement of the issue.

 

I believe there is still a good upside to XRP.

The danger for XRP is that it's not created in the same way as other crypto currencies, it more closely resembles a share issuance by a private company. Something which shouldn't be traded publicly according to current regulations. The SEC would like to class it as a security.

 

I believe it's why they are going after XRP first and there's a long list of others which will all follow the same fate, whatever it may be.

 

If XRP is ever deemed to be a security then all those ETH token type 'coins' are in for a world of hurt but it won't affect the 'mined' coins.

This is what the SEC have been attempting to do, however this is action started under the Trump administration which was considerably more hostile towards the entire crypto industry than the current administration so where it all ends is anyones guess.

 

 

[Ventenio]

Stupid ethereum!!!!   hahahahahaahhaha

 

had a friend put in 50,000 USD.  He's rich, don't feel bad for him.

 

He was down BIG......I told him whatever.......he said "I'm not selling until I breakeven!!!!"

 

he actually ended up making a little money

 

now he thinks the game is super easy

 

i'm sure one of these times he will go 10x long and this thing is going to zero....

 

gotta flush out the weak longs before this thing can get legs......that's gotta mean like 500 from 2500.  have everyone giving up...........

 

gambling.   oh, it's fun......   until it's not.  lol

[Sig]

6 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Those that have spent some time into understanding, know that crypto is not a technology, but it uses the blockchain technology.

 

 

You mean those that read Musk's tweets?

If you read a bit more closely, you'll notice that I never said that crypto is a technology. It appears there are others around here who also need to read more carefully or they wouldn't so readily like your post that doesn't make sense.
To answer your question - No, Musk wasn't even remotely on my mind. I meant what I said. No need to try reading between the lines. Musk is playing people. Decent technical analysts saw the moves the market was making before his tweets. The market wasn't making the moves because of his tweets. Retail "investors" and wannabe traders need to get much better informed than to fall into this nonsense spread on social and mass media.

[Sig]

6 hours ago, gearbox said:

 

Err...I have been dealing with proper cryptography since mid nineties,  when some of these "crypto" investors were still walking under the kitchen table. I've even met a few times the Aussie who claims to be the Bitcoin inventor, he didn't strike me as brilliant mathematician or cryptographer back then.

 

The crypto currencies game is based on greed, and it can't be subdued. If you tell someone that he can invest in something and make 30x return,  he'll do it, no matter how dumb the investment is. People know that the chance of winning the lottery is very low, but they still buy tickets as the potential return is too high and the greed wins.

 

The only way for the governments to sort out the private crypto currencies is to to completely outlaw them, and this is going to happen gradually, country by country.

Sounds like you should look into blockchain technology. It sounds like you likely haven't much of an idea about it. I doubt you'd be so negative if you knew much about it. As for crypto currency, do you think people are any less greedy in the stock market or anything else they invest in? I don't. And there is no need to trade with greed. People who do, lose. It's commonly said something like 95% lose. And that is precisely why. Doesn't bother me in the least. It's a zero-sum game. They lose and people who keep their wits about them, take what they lose. It doesn't bother me in the least if greedy people lose. Maybe it'll become a character building lesson for them. One can hope....

[The Cipher]

27 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

i'm sure one of these times he will go 10x long and this thing is going to zero....

 

If this guy is actually your friend, I'd strongly advise him not to do this.

 

It's unlikely that Ether is going to go to zero as an asset, but your friend's 10x levered position sure is going to. Crypto is a small enough and illiquid enough that whales and institutions can and will materially move prices. And best believe, they will intentionally cause price drops and retail liquidations to their advantage. If you don't want to see your buddy get liquidated, maybe tell him to cool it with the leverage ????

[gearbox]

32 minutes ago, Sig said:

Sounds like you should look into blockchain technology. It sounds like you likely haven't much of an idea about it. I doubt you'd be so negative if you knew much about it. As for crypto currency, do you think people are any less greedy in the stock market or anything else they invest in? I don't. And there is no need to trade with greed. People who do, lose. It's commonly said something like 95% lose. And that is precisely why. Doesn't bother me in the least. It's a zero-sum game. They lose and people who keep their wits about them, take what they lose. It doesn't bother me in the least if greedy people lose. Maybe it'll become a character building lesson for them. One can hope....

 

Where in my post I said I'm negative about the blockchain technology? The blockchain technology is very useful concept with bright future.

Here is one really well done scalable blockchain network done by really serious players:

 

https://www.ledgerinsights.com/new-chinese-enterprise-blockchain-tech-to-integrate-with-digital-yuan/

 

However Joe the bricklayer, Tom the truck driver and so on don't trade with blockchain technology. They are not shareholders in blockchain technology providers. They trade with sh1tcoins, a by-product of this technology with no real value. They are not shareholders in something like the SWIFT network.

 

In the end it is really simple. In the whole modern human history the issuance of money is absolute monopoly of the governments. They have absolutely no intention to allow Joe Blogs to start issuing legal tender currency from his garage.

 

 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

They have absolutely no intention to allow Joe Blogs to start issuing legal tender currency from his garage.

 

Yet here we are a little more than 12 years after the Bitcoin 'Genesis block' and nobody lifted a finger to stop it, in fact it is now being accepted in circles who would previously have been deemed to natural enemy of Bitcoin and the blockchain on which its transactions are recorded.

 

 

[bartender100]

Nearly all the major coins are well up since 1st Jan this year, just don't panic sell on the dips.

 

[ericthai]

On 5/13/2021 at 4:44 AM, GrandPapillon said:

other firms are going to follow, the ESG compliance risk is too high, and unless you know exactly what you are doing, and we all know nobody knows <deleted> all about bitcoins, then you are exposing yourself to future regulatory violations with Bitcoins.

 

Growing money on CPUs is the same as growing money on trees, it's a pipe dream ????

Arnt Bill's made of paper? Therefore they do come from trees. ????

[ericthai]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:37 AM, Walker88 said:

A few weeks ago, just before the now infamous Bill Maher "New Rules" segment that got the attention of Elon Musk, my waitress in a BKK restaurant told me she was putting her salary-after-expenses into Bitcoin. That reminded me of the (perhaps apocryphal) tale of a shoeshine boy giving Joe Kennedy stock market tips in September 1929. Boom!

 

Now I'm no expert on Bitcoin or Dreamwealth or any other crypto fantasy, but I am a retired hedge fund manager. I kind of know markets. I retired young, so I was either dumb lucky or I had some sort of market understanding (which means both financial knowledge and understanding of human psychology).

 

Something with zero underlying value, save for what the Greater Fool is willing to pay for it, tends to be a dead man (investment) walking. It's musical chairs with a dying battery in the record player and social distancing demanded of chair sitters. Yes, cryptos will retain some 'value' (i.e., fools) in the arena of anti-govt types or terrorists or criminal gangs, but otherwise (IMO) they're a fad. (Maybe cryptos work slightly better than GIA Diamond certs for moving/laundering money across borders.) That doesn't mean money cannot be made playing the game, but one needs to be nimble and not be greedy. If one guy can issue a Tweet or make a comment and cut the market value in half in a few days, one is not dealing with a an asset with real value, but rather a Blockchain Beanie Baby wrapped in a Ponzi Scheme siting on top of a Pyramid dipped in an elaborate Crowd Funding appeal and baked into a Pie-in-the-Sky.

 

Some try to argue that 'cryptos will replace banks'.  No way. Never.  Banks schtick is lending money. Who wants to borrow an instrument that is a speculative instrument whose value can change by 15% in a day? Remember what happened to Thailand in 1997 when it borrowed in dollars? The dollar soared against them, they couldn't repay, and the Asian Crisis was upon us.  Borrow Bitcoin a month ago and maybe someone is a hero, as payback costs about half what it did last month. Borrow it before a hyped-up rise and the borrower suffers. Thus, bankers can sleep well, knowing they retain the right to print money from thin air.

 

I find it humorous that some crypto fans argue that 'fiat money is fake'. "Faker" than Bitcoin? Fiat depends on collective suspension of disbelief, but it has 200 examples in existence and 200 govts behind it to give it credence. Bitcoin has geeks and dreamers backing it....and the ultimate power behind it remains unknown.

 

In all asset classes, even computer-generated ones, rising prices create demand. That goes against microeconomic theory, but reality sometimes stomps on theory. Folks bought houses up until 2008 because 'the train was leaving the station, so better get on board'. Same with Dot-Com stocks up until April 2000. Remember Pets.com? It has been reborn as Bitcoin, except with less underlying value.

 

The current 'market guru' (always a moniker with an expiration date), Kathi Woods, just pulled a number out of where the sun doesn't shine and claimed "Bitcoin is going to $500,000'. Okay, Kathi, based on what? Hate to think you're just talking your underwater book.

 

One of the maxims of the financial industry is that eventually the market embarrasses anyone who overstays his/her welcome. So much of investing is luck....being an investor during a long term bull market, picking a bottom or top, getting swept up in a wave of euphoria, getting out at the right time....and crypto will be no different. Play the game, have fun, make some dosh....but don't be greedy.

 

After the 1929 crash, it wasn't until 1954 until the market reached the 1929 highs, and even that was deceptive because bankrupt companies had been replaced in the indices. Japan peaked in 1989 and hasn't come close again to that high in 32 years---again, despite replacing failed companies in the indices. When bubbles burst, they often stay burst for decades, even forever.

 

Anybody want to pay $10,000 for a very special Beanie Baby? How about a $2 billion house in Tokyo (the US Ambassador's residence, valued at $2 billion in early 1990)?

Allot more to 97 crash than just the value of the USD. Over extended loans was the main issue, the USD just helped push it.

[fdsa]

I'm so eager to buy Ethereum for $500...

[shdmn]

Unless you have the rare gift of not ever getting emotional about money and stocks it's probably best to avoid the volatile, speculative, and sexy stuff.  It's best to be optimistic when the market is overly fearful and fearful when the market is overly optimistic.  It's hard to do that when you are too emotionally attached.  I only invest in boring stuff to avoid that.  Utilities, banks etc.   I stay away from the sexy high flying stuff.  I still consider all crypto as speculative at this point.  Some day some of it may be more mainstream but I don't think we are there yet.

Edited May 25, 2021 by shdmn

[Sig]

17 hours ago, gearbox said:

 

Where in my post I said I'm negative about the blockchain technology? The blockchain technology is very useful concept with bright future.

Here is one really well done scalable blockchain network done by really serious players:

 

https://www.ledgerinsights.com/new-chinese-enterprise-blockchain-tech-to-integrate-with-digital-yuan/

 

However Joe the bricklayer, Tom the truck driver and so on don't trade with blockchain technology. They are not shareholders in blockchain technology providers. They trade with sh1tcoins, a by-product of this technology with no real value. They are not shareholders in something like the SWIFT network.

 

In the end it is really simple. In the whole modern human history the issuance of money is absolute monopoly of the governments. They have absolutely no intention to allow Joe Blogs to start issuing legal tender currency from his garage.

 

 

I never said  that you said you're negative about blockchain tech. I mentioned the negative tone of your comment, which perhaps I misplaced as being toward blockchain tech.
Joe the bricklayer and Tom the truck driver can be responsible for themselves. If they behave irresponsibly with their finances.... that's just too bad. Lot's of people do in myriad ways without needing <deleted>coins to distract them. Of course governments have no intention to allow the financial system to get out from the control of their claws. So what? There are lots of things that governments do that are immoral. Is there some reason why people shouldn't continue striving toward liberty from that oppression? If people want to stay under that control, they are free to do so, I don't know anyone who would try to force them to not put themselves under that. And the same should apply likewise to people who desire to be out from under such oppression by attempting to create a new way for a financial system to work, whether by creating a different item to use in an exchange of value, or in ways of decentralizing, or whatever anyone may come up with. And if they fail in their goals, then they fail and people learn from it and can use lessons learned to improve, much like the progression of scientific endeavor.

[berrec]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:50 PM, The Cipher said:

 

There were a number of ways I thought about replying to this, but I'll try and actually be helpful this time ????.

 

So I have a pretty classic Wall Street background and was a crypto skeptic from 2016 until about half way through 2020. My skepticism was based on cryptocurrencies not fulfilling the three main conditions of money and also because the entire space seemed like a pump and dump ponzi carousel. Then, after the famous crash in 2017, I felt smug and vindicated.

 

I had numerous friends both on the tech side and the finance side that didn't lose faith in the technology post-crash and held, or added, to positions through to the start of the current bull market. And these are very smart folks. When the bull market took off, their cheaply acquired positions printed. One of my best friends - who also happens to be way smarter than me - turned an initial investment of $10k into $3M.

 

And, over the course of 2020, I watched a lot of people do multiples while I was happy with my 40%-50% gains from timing the market post Covid-crash. And they kept doing multiples and I kept doing incremental gains. And I like money too. So and during the Game Stop event I finally relented and figured I'd at least hold my nose ride the graph. Still didn't believe in the assets at that time but...money is money.

 

So I asked three friends who were deep into crypto how they were trading and each one of them was kind enough to sit down and spend hours with me explaining the tech and space. And...it was enough to make a believer out of me, because they were able to show me specifically why some of the coins are valuable. I bought my first crypto (Eth) in the fall of 2020.

 

This post has gotten pretty long, so I'll quickly wrap it by saying that a ton of stuff in the crypto space - the memecoins and such - are probably pump and dump scams. Which doesn't mean you can't make money off them, but their intrinsic value is probably zero in the long run.

 

But. When you filter out the garbage there are projects - like Ethereum - that have real value and the potential for sustainable exponential upside.

 

If you know anyone deep into crypto - especially on the tech/dev side, I suggest you buy them a coffee and ask them to explain it to you. You might have the same epiphany I did.

 

If the game has changed, kicking and screaming doesn't help. Better to learn the new rules so as not to get left behind.

---

Also, Elon's probably running game here re: Bitcoin. But even if he isn't, he doesn't actually swear off cryptocurrencies, he specifically says that he's not selling out of his Bitcoin and that Tesla is looking at other, more environmentally friendly cryptos in lieu of Bitcoin. Source article here.

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/crypto-finance/buying-and-selling-cryptocurrencies-using-crypto-exchanges-29D9H?action=enroll

[Heng]

21 hours ago, fdsa said:

I'm so eager to buy Ethereum for $500...

 

What's your power source for the 1.21 gigawatts you're going to need to power your DeLorean?

[fdsa]

I just hope the Chinese government will ban cryptocurrency again, as it did in 2013, 2017, and 2018.

But this time they should ban it really hard!

[Logosone]

On 5/23/2021 at 10:45 PM, ukrules said:

Did anyone buy the dip? It's going to be interesting to see the price action between about Tuesday to Sunday.

 

I did not buy the dip yet. I agree, the market action is going to be interesting in the next few days. In the long term I expect Bitcoin to go up again but I am shorting it now because I expect a bit more fall.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 

I did not buy the dip yet. I agree, the market action is going to be interesting in the next few days. In the long term I expect Bitcoin to go up again but I am shorting it now because I expect a bit more fall.

Yeah, a huge amount of options and futures expire / expired today. Not sure what time the CME monthly futures expire (last Friday of the month), but I think it's early in the day.

 

This has the potential to be a massive pivot point and the price retouched a previous 'bottom range' today already....

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by ukrules