Buriram becomes first Thai province to penalize refusal for COVID-19 vaccine

[JayBird]

4 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Thailand was among the first nations to sign the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 and seemed committed to safeguarding Human Rights in Thailand. In practice, the reality has been that the powerful can abuse the human rights of their subjects with impunity.

"quoted from google"

 

Thank you, yes.  Unfortunately, I believe this is not legally binding.  More of an aspirational thing.

 

 

[JayBird]

Could be a funny thought:

They open to tourists, but require them to be injected upon arrival in the airport.  Doesn't matter if they were previously vaccinated (too old!).  Don't like it? Airport prison then pay for flight back ????

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, JayBird said:

 

Thank you, yes.  Unfortunately, I believe this is not legally binding.  More of an aspirational thing.

 

 

When you aspire to be the hub of the universe then you should treat people with equality, and not by fear force or threat of imprisonment.

[TheFreqFlyer]

10 minutes ago, connda said:

Democracy?  Nope.  Totalitarian state with the dictatorial powers residing in the offices of governors in order to take the heat off of the so-called Czar. 
This will be the template for Thailand.  Guaranteed.  Just like provincially mandated mask wearing, this will catch on with the other governors like wild-fire. 
"Shut up, line up, get a shot, if you get sick and die, so sad too bad.  It's for the greater good." 
And it will not hurt the profits of CP or Siam Bioscience either. 

Wait.  Let's see how the Thai population responds to the heavy handedness.  It may be entertaining.  I have no dog in the fight.  I've already assumed that Thai Immigration will mandate shots for visa extensions in 2022.  But a "free" Thai citizen in this land of Freedom and Democracy <cue Chart Thai>? 
Let's wait and see.

While I hope you're wrong about the shot mandates for visa extensions in 2022, it could happen (it definitely won't be this year of course...but sometime in 2022...possibly). For now, it's Thais that are being targeted by this totalitarian measure. In Cambodia, they've started to mandate vaccinations too - starting with people in the "red zones" in Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and a few other places, and for government workers. Later, it will be expanded to cover various groups of occupations. Not sure if they can mandate rice farmers and those not employed in the formal sector can be vaccinated...but this ruling in Buri Ram sure seems to suggest that so it could be the same in Cambodia.

[TheFreqFlyer]

33 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nothing negative when a basic human right is removed.  Tell me you believe in being told what vaccine you will take and if you don't take it you will go to jail.  Perfectly within our rights to discuss the inequities that have been put in the news.  To you not agreeing with something being forced upon you or anyone else is negative, However I see it as a basic right to make a decision for ones self.  Now if they have many vaccines to choose from and the one I want is available I will be in line to take it.  Being told if I don't sign up to be vaccinated by May 31st, yet being also told we can not until August creates quite a conundrum for you and I as well and a discussion of the issues is far from being negative.   

I personally don't believe foreigners are meant by this ruling. It's Thais only. That stated - it is frightening. Many farang live in Buri Ram and have Thai partners and families. So even if farang are excluded (for now) their Thai families are being threatened with jail time and/or draconian fines. Not only that, but the limited timeframe given (just over 2 weeks) is disturbing. 

[Trujillo]

"One caveat: If we got ill and recovered during the first wave, that was so long ago, the immunity could have expired and we'd get sick in this 3rd/4th wave."

 

I'm not at all sure that's correct. 

And by the way, I was reading today that a growing number of "experts" are saying that you don't need booster shots, either. So that would go against what you said. 

But regardless, governments and big pharma will be telling us to get a jab every six months to a year from now on, just watch. Science be damned. 

[Trujillo]

Also, I don't want to make any of the Buriramians feel bad, but whenever I cast a discouraging word as a comparison to some hayseed backwater mentality, I always say, "Hey! This isn't Buriram, you know?"

 

Just sayin'....

[TheFreqFlyer]

48 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

OK, all foreigners go strait to jail, as the Public Health Ministry say you cannot apply before August, so you fail automatically on 31st May.

LOL. Foreigners aren't covered here. Only Thais. Even so, it's a shocking abuse of power and human rights. Everyone should be treated with dignity and have bodily autonomy, whether Thais or foreigners. Even if this mafia like ruling is never applied to foreigners, my heart goes out to the poor Thais that may/will be affected by this. 

[JayBird]

1 minute ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

LOL. Foreigners aren't covered here. Only Thais. Even so, it's a shocking abuse of power and human rights. Everyone should be treated with dignity and have bodily autonomy, whether Thais or foreigners. Even if this mafia like ruling is never applied to foreigners, my heart goes out to the poor Thais that may/will be affected by this. 

 

Not covered... today.  Could change tomorrow.

Then change back next week.

Then flip flop again the week after.

Talk about russian roulette ????

 

 

[Ventenio]

2 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

penalties as high as two years in prison and a maximum of 60,000 Baht.

imagine back home if you are forced.   and your family member dies...

 

lawsuits until it's raining cats and dogs......payouts in the trillions

 

here........it's a mai bpen rai kap.  ok, next!!!

[TheFreqFlyer]

20 minutes ago, JayBird said:

It's an interesting point if this is a 'Human Rights' violation or not.  As far as I know, such things are handled by the Country's own legislation, rather than being dictated by say the UN.

 

I do not know if Thailand has a Human Rights Act (such as the UK, Australia, etc.).  And how many ways that could be interpreted.

 

I do know some legislation takes into consideration the concept of 'Right To Life', and could be used in this situation to state that by an individual not taking the vaccine they are endangering the right to life of others.

 

Legally, I doubt that anything could be done about forced vaccination, certainly not in time, and very unlikely by a foreigner.  And the foreigner always has the option to simply leave if they do not like the rules here, so do not expect much help from your home country.

 

Note: I'm not anti-vaccine.  I'm all for it.  Show me the approved and tested stuff from the US/EU and I'll roll up both sleeves.  However, I have yet to see sufficient data and independent research on the vaccines developed in China to give me the confidence that they are safe and effective.

 

 

I'm pretty sure foreigners would be able to fight forced vaccination more easily than a Thai. We tend to be more aware of our rights, and in the worst case scenario could always leave the country. We certainly won't be held here and forcibly vaccinated. 

[ikke1959]

Stupidity has no limits indeed.. Is there any law that force people to ake a vaccine and if there is than there must be vaccines available and choices. Not some dirty Chinese rubbish or vaccines with maybe deadly side effects.  It is good that Prayuth already has  charged for 4,5 million baht by a family and I hope there will be a lot more to follow if people die because of side effects of the vaccines

[Trujillo]

"imagine back home if you are forced.   and your family member dies..."

 

That's actually a very interesting point. I wonder if there is a disclaimer you have to sign, and even if there were, would it hold up in court? My guess is not. 

Obviously, no one is Buriramland has thought about this very deeply. 

[tank81]

6 minutes ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

I'm pretty sure foreigners would be able to fight forced vaccination more easily than a Thai. We tend to be more aware of our rights, and in the worst case scenario could always leave the country. We certainly won't be held here and forcibly vaccinated. 

Cute

[Golden Triangle]

Sounds to me that the governor of Buriram has the intellect of a 6 year old, and that was being generous, I wonder how many others will follow suit ?

[Amdesign]

The junta and its local cronies has repeatedly broken freedoms and rights granted by Thai constitution.

 

Some idiots at Kolarn island kick out 'non-residents' on their decision. already twice. Suratthani threatens for drinking at home, with wife. Buriramin idiot threatens with the jail for not registering for vaccination. Whats next??

[connda]

10 minutes ago, connda said:

Wait.  Let's see how the Thai population responds to the heavy handedness.  It may be entertaining.  I have no dog in the fight.  I've already assumed that Thai Immigration will mandate shots for visa extensions in 2022.  But a "free" Thai citizen in this land of Freedom and Democracy <cue Chart Thai>? 
Let's wait and see.

I just talked to the Mrs about the dictatorial powers of Thai governors.  She responded with a comment directed at the governor that was a reference to male genitalia. The Mrs was never a blushing lass. 
She then shared a spreadsheet she received by someone connected to our local goverment regarding the numbers of villagers taking their government up on their vaccination offer and registering for a vaccination (the Mrs was invited to sign up almost a month ago so vaccination registration has been open for quite awhile).  The average number of those registering was about 30% of villagers from all local villages, in other word, 70% don't want the shot.  In one of the largest villages only 5% of the villagers signed up.  So if you don't know what rural Thais think about all this vaccination rigamarole - now you do.  A lot of the issues involve knowing the global track record of the AZ vaccine and the number of countries rejecting the vaccine.  My Mrs doesn't want to assume the risk.  She is not giving informed consent to take the experimental AZ vaccine that is authorized only under emergency authorization.
Rule 1 of the Nuremberg Code.
The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

And here I thought Thais lived in a bubble.  I guess that rural Thais are a little more worldly than I previously thought.  Good for them.
I think mandating masks is one thing as most Thais go along.
But mandating shots?  Repeatedly stating that the manufacturers say they are "safe" doesn't inspire confidence when people are getting sick after vaccinations and suffering from the same symptoms - blood clots.  Yeah, mandating shot will be a different buffalo. 

From the Thai National Anthem:
Thais love peace, but are not afraid to fight. 

I wonder if this will be the straw that broke the camel's back?

[smedly]

38 minutes ago, sungod said:

I'm not as optimistic as you when you read the daily bleating on the forum.

you seem to be the only one making complaints while the rest of us are discussing current affairs 

 

another one for my ignore list - now 6 in total in 15 years on TVF

[TheFreqFlyer]

17 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"imagine back home if you are forced.   and your family member dies..."

 

That's actually a very interesting point. I wonder if there is a disclaimer you have to sign, and even if there were, would it hold up in court? My guess is not. 

Obviously, no one is Buriramland has thought about this very deeply. 

This proclamation sounds similar to the threats made towards those from 4 eastern provinces back in January, who were warned that in order to travel, they would need to install the tracing app or be fined and/or jailed. They then retracted their threat and in any case, it no longer applied from Feb 1st onward. 

 

I think the same might happen here...but it's concerning nonetheless. 

 

I hope some human rights activists make some noise here. 

[connda]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

you seem to be the only one making complaints while the rest of us are discussing current affairs 

 

another one for my ignore list - now 6 in total in 15 years on TVF

I have over two pages in less than a year after I discovered the "ignore" button.  I guess I'll be added this one too. 
I enjoy civil discussions and opposing points of view.  When that degenerates into name calling and character assassination.... 
Time for the "ignore" button.  ????  Thanks for the suggestion.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, connda said:

I just talked to the Mrs about the dictatorial powers of Thai governors.  She responded with a comment directed at the governor that was a reference to male genitalia. The Mrs was never a blushing lass. 
She then shared a spreadsheet she received by someone connected to our local goverment regarding the numbers of villagers taking their government up on their vaccination offer and registering for a vaccination (the Mrs was invited to sign up almost a month ago so vaccination registration has been open for quite awhile).  The average number of those registering was about 30% of villagers from all local villages, in other word, 70% don't want the shot.  In one of the largest villages only 5% of the villagers signed up.  So if you don't know what rural Thais think about all this vaccination rigamarole - now you do.  A lot of the issues involve knowing the global track record of the AZ vaccine and the number of countries rejecting the vaccine.  My Mrs doesn't want to assume the risk.  She is not giving informed consent to take the experimental AZ vaccine that is authorized only under emergency authorization.
Rule 1 of the Nuremberg Code.
The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

And here I thought Thais lived in a bubble.  I guess that rural Thais are a little more worldly than I previously thought.  Good for them.
I think mandating masks is one thing as most Thais go along.
But mandating shots?  Repeatedly stating that the manufacturers say they are "safe" doesn't inspire confidence when people are getting sick after vaccinations and suffering from the same symptoms - blood clots.  Yeah, mandating shot will be a different buffalo. 

From the Thai National Anthem:
Thais love peace, but are not afraid to fight. 

I wonder if this will be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Agree with almost everything you mentioned aside from AZ. It's actually Sinovac that they are using there. There in no more AZ till June or July

[TheFreqFlyer]

13 minutes ago, connda said:

I just talked to the Mrs about the dictatorial powers of Thai governors.  She responded with a comment directed at the governor that was a reference to male genitalia. The Mrs was never a blushing lass. 
She then shared a spreadsheet she received by someone connected to our local goverment regarding the numbers of villagers taking their government up on their vaccination offer and registering for a vaccination (the Mrs was invited to sign up almost a month ago so vaccination registration has been open for quite awhile).  The average number of those registering was about 30% of villagers from all local villages, in other word, 70% don't want the shot.  In one of the largest villages only 5% of the villagers signed up.  So if you don't know what rural Thais think about all this vaccination rigamarole - now you do.  A lot of the issues involve knowing the global track record of the AZ vaccine and the number of countries rejecting the vaccine.  My Mrs doesn't want to assume the risk.  She is not giving informed consent to take the experimental AZ vaccine that is authorized only under emergency authorization.
Rule 1 of the Nuremberg Code.
The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

And here I thought Thais lived in a bubble.  I guess that rural Thais are a little more worldly than I previously thought.  Good for them.
I think mandating masks is one thing as most Thais go along.
But mandating shots?  Repeatedly stating that the manufacturers say they are "safe" doesn't inspire confidence when people are getting sick after vaccinations and suffering from the same symptoms - blood clots.  Yeah, mandating shot will be a different buffalo. 

From the Thai National Anthem:
Thais love peace, but are not afraid to fight. 

I wonder if this will be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Love your comment.

 

Excellent analysis and information. 

[smedly]

20 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

Sounds to me that the governor of Buriram has the intellect of a 6 year old, and that was being generous, I wonder how many others will follow suit ?

It also looks to me like the Central government in Thailand has totally lost control when we have ##### coming forward with policies like this 

 

I would fully expect this threat to be withdrawn/retracted tomorrow and if it isn't it takes Thailand down a very dark path indeed and would be very very disturbing.

 

Thai people I have spoken to are very willing to be vaccinated but not one the from China "Sinovac", it became obvious were this was heading when the government said people would not be allowed to choose which vaccine they were going to get or rather "not get" 

[TheFreqFlyer]

52 minutes ago, smedly said:

It also looks to me like the Central government in Thailand has totally lost control when we have ##### coming forward with policies like this 

 

I would fully expect this threat to be withdrawn/retracted tomorrow and if it isn't it takes Thailand down a very dark path indeed and would be very very disturbing.

 

Thai people I have spoken to are very willing to be vaccinated but not one the from China "Sinovac", it became obvious were this was heading when the government said people would not be allowed to choose which vaccine they were going to get or rather "not get" 

It's all about choice.

 

Vaccination or any medical procedure should never be imposed by force. Forced vaccination is a war crime. As you say, many Thais would like to get vaccinated but with their choice of vaccination. Many others don't want any at all. Although I oppose vaccination on the basis of it being unproven and risky, I don't have anything against anyone who chooses to get one on their own free will. What other people choose to inject into their bodies is not my business. 

 

You are right that we could be looking at a very dark path being taken. That stated, I believe this could be retracted tomorrow in the same way the threat to fine or jail residents of 4 eastern provinces who wanted to travel back in January, and who didn't install the tracing app was. 

[TheFreqFlyer]

1 hour ago, tank81 said:

Cute

I'm right. If you think the army is going door to door to forcibly vaccinate foreigners against our will, then I think you've gone down the realm of conspiracy theory because that is never going to happen. The worst that could happen is we are given a week or so to leave the country. 

 

I am justifiably concerned about this mafia threat by the Buri Ram governor, which at this point in time only applies to Thais. However, I don't think it will be easy to jail potentially hundreds of thousands of people. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by TheFreqFlyer

[thai006]

get VACCINATED  all people !!!!!!

[Kadilo]

7 minutes ago, thai006 said:

get VACCINATED  all people !!!!!!

That’s swung it for me. 

[shdmn]

Seems rather premature. The time for trying to force people to get it would be after there is ample supply and most of the willing have been vaccinated.

Edited May 14, 2021 by shdmn

[impulse]

2 hours ago, TheFreqFlyer said:

I'm pretty sure foreigners would be able to fight forced vaccination more easily than a Thai. We tend to be more aware of our rights, and in the worst case scenario could always leave the country. We certainly won't be held here and forcibly vaccinated. 

 

More likely to go the other direction...  Show us your vaccine records or no extension for you this year.

 

I hope it doesn't happen, and would have been 99% sure it wouldn't.  Until I read announcements like the OP.  And just like this announcement, perhaps it will just be the IO's in certain areas that will be pressured by the local gub'ment to enforce the requirement.

 

We'll see...  If I were a betting man, I'd bet Buriram will be forced to back away from any vaccine mandate- Thai or foreigner.  But I wouldn't bet against innocent people getting caught up before they do.

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by impulse

[soi3eddie]

Just now, sungod said:

I'm kinda confused, first we had a bunch or foreingers complaining they couldn't get a vaccine, now we have a bunch of foreigners complaining they will be forced to have one. ????

 

It's just not a vaccine they would trust. That's why... Would you?