I think if you don’t live with a Thai person you may not entirely understand the issue of Face and particularly Thai Face which is taken a little further than some Asian countries!

I live with a Thai woman....just the two of us so I have plenty of opportunities to screw up!

It’s taken quite a long time for me to really start to understand because apparently I’m one of those “know it all farangs”....guilty as charged for the first few years☺️
Ive become more of a listener recently and it serves to teach me how much I don’t know about Thailand!

“Face” as it applies in Thailand would be similar to a Westerners reputation, their honor and social standing. Thais can lose Face and earn it back again but if a foreigner loses face by losing their temper or berating someone else publicly it’s very difficult to regain or earn back!

Thais take Face to the next level where they will say Yes even when they mean No in order not to lose Face or just walk away if they can’t understand what you want!

Face is about being polite, inoffensive and unobtrusive.....

 

Its about not being embarrased or embarrasing others.

No one is at "fault" they are not "wrong", they just do it differently. ????

How long you been here for mate? I'm long in the tooth now just let them get on with it. I'm only here still here 'coz of me kids.

 

Btw, no one anywhere  likes losing face, it isn't just a Thai thing, but I suppose they take it to the extreme. Wife's, gf's or 'partners' (as many on here like to say)  also will rarely admit they are wrong and rarely apologise. And rarely side with you if you are angry with another Thai for some reason, ie if you are out driving.

Money trumps everything,  and it is ones money, so dont worry about losing face unless ine is stupid with their money, because  money trumps face!

5 hours ago, AquaThai said:

Money trumps everything,  and it is ones money, so dont worry about losing face unless ine is stupid with their money, because  money trumps face!

What an interesting comment!

I have found when you have some money you soon find it’s a short term answer to any problem!
It certainly does not trump your integrity or your reputation!

 

2 hours ago, Kanada said:

What an interesting comment!

I have found when you have some money you soon find it’s a short term answer to any problem!
It certainly does not trump your integrity or your reputation!

 

It's dog eat dog. If you have enough money nothing else matters.

38 minutes ago, bermondburi said:

It's dog eat dog. If you have enough money nothing else matters.

I guess I’m rather fortunate as I haven’t found either statement to be true! 
Life’s hiccups are inevitable and I’ve had my share but none of them ever solved by money surplus or the lack of it!

Good luck out there ????

What you describe is more than FACE, you have described Thainess.  I would ask questions of my now Thai Ex-Wife when we were married, she would look at me and say "You have eyes, you can see, why ask the question"  The same as when we would be driving and I would ask her something while I was looking down the road and driving the vehicle, sometimes I never heard a word, and if I happened to fail to turn my head and miss the blinking of her eyes, her way of answering, and when I asked her the same question again she would sternly make the same statement again "You have eyes you can see".  Never learned.  It would cause me great consternation sometimes when she would not talk for many days.....lol

Once you understand the way it works you can really exploit it. Being a foreigner it's easy to pretend you don't get it.

 

Use it to get people to do what you want.

Use it to humiliate people who deserve it.

Use it to get the very best service.

 

Use it with very polite and "soft" Thai language, always use their name and along with the appropriate facial expressions.

 

One of the many fun things about life in Thailand. Too easy.

56 minutes ago, Kanada said:

I guess I’m rather fortunate as I haven’t found either statement to be true! 
Life’s hiccups are inevitable and I’ve had my share but none of them ever solved by money surplus or the lack of it!

Good luck out there ????

Yes, you are fortunate. One of the lucky ones privileged by the fortune of your birthplace.

 

I would suggest that 99.9% of most people's problems are caused by the lack of money. That you have found differently is indeed your good fortune. 

20 minutes ago, bermondburi said:

Yes, you are fortunate. One of the lucky ones privileged by the fortune of your birthplace.

 

I would suggest that 99.9% of most people's problems are caused by the lack of money. That you have found differently is indeed your good fortune. 

I understand but I wasn’t born with a crooked spine or missing limbs or deaf or mute or lost my parents early in life or any of a hundred other things that money has little effect on.....It’s way down the list on the top 10 important things in life....

Unfortunately many use it as a measuring stick for themselves...

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

What you describe is more than FACE, you have described Thainess.  I would ask questions of my now Thai Ex-Wife when we were married, she would look at me and say "You have eyes, you can see, why ask the question"  The same as when we would be driving and I would ask her something while I was looking down the road and driving the vehicle, sometimes I never heard a word, and if I happened to fail to turn my head and miss the blinking of her eyes, her way of answering, and when I asked her the same question again she would sternly make the same statement again "You have eyes you can see".  Never learned.  It would cause me great consternation sometimes when she would not talk for many days.....lol

Haha I run into that at times too....it’s maddening....seems we’re used to long conversations and Thais are just well.        “not”!

As you mentioned former wife I take it you didn’t just “shut the h””” up”????

1 hour ago, Kanada said:

I understand but I wasn’t born with a crooked spine or missing limbs or deaf or mute or lost my parents early in life or any of a hundred other things that money has little effect on.....It’s way down the list on the top 10 important things in life....

Unfortunately many use it as a measuring stick for themselves...

99.9% of people's problems don't include crooked spines and the like.

 

Consider yourself fortunate that it's way down your list. Billions would love to be in your position.

IMO the easiest way to avoid face issues in Thailand is to be non-confrontational.

There are times one has to go with the flow when it's official. OTOH, I get bad service or a dud product, I walk away, and never go back.

7 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the easiest way to avoid face issues in Thailand is to be non-confrontational.

There are times one has to go with the flow when it's official. OTOH, I get bad service or a dud product, I walk away, and never go back.

100%....???? a cool and level head

8 hours ago, bermondburi said:

99.9% of people's problems don't include crooked spines and the like.

 

Consider yourself fortunate that it's way down your list. Billions would love to be in your position.

I worked hard for many years to raise four sons and get them all educated and on their way....it took money of course and lots of it but mostly what they needed was my time to build their confidence and keep them moving in the right direction.

I worked for the “attaboys” I’m embarrassed to say...(I was a little short of those growing up)...the money just came!
It was never my reason for getting up in the morning!!

 

10 hours ago, bermondburi said:

Yes, you are fortunate. One of the lucky ones privileged by the fortune of your birthplace.

 

I would suggest that 99.9% of most people's problems are caused by the lack of money. That you have found differently is indeed your good fortune. 

I was born in one of the best countries in the world....grew up on a great farm full of animals and John Deere equipment) with parents that disliked each other intensely...good friends...great cars (it was the ‘60’s)...mediocre education and a $5. allowance...good in school and sports....happy as hell

Not a bit of it was perfect and no one worked harder than I did

 

I took advantage of it all....sad to say many of my friends didn’t and they’re still running around looking for money and happiness!

20 hours ago, Kanada said:

“Face” as it applies in Thailand would be similar to a Westerners reputation, their honor and social standing.

Disagree ......... it's false pride.

Primitive and generally uneducated people who usually refuse to learn or accept guidance from their betters.

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Disagree ......... it's false pride.

Primitive and generally uneducated people who usually refuse to learn or accept guidance from their betters.

Wow....and I’m guessing you’re one of their betters????

Just now, Kanada said:

Wow....and I’m guessing you’re one of their betters????

I'm probably one of your betters as well.

No false pride here!

On 5/15/2021 at 11:06 AM, Kanada said:

Thais take Face to the next level where they will say Yes even when they mean No i

That is not face, but trying to avoid confrontation... confrontation provokes anger and anger is not cool... 

 

For many, a direct "NO" is impolite so they try and work around it if they can [mai chai = not yes].. some will agree w/you just not to be confrontational...

 

And losing face is very important in the West too... if you look for it... my father in his late 80s would be asleep in front of the TV 95% of the time... the phone would ring and he would tell whoever - "I have been very busy" - because in that world - being busy = important and productive and that is cool... sleeping in front of the tv all day would be a loss of 'face' - for him. You might find it overlaps w/pride. 

 

For your relations w/Thai there will likely be a sliding scale... you wife might be more direct w/you than a stranger who will agree with anything as they can walk away w/o conflict or concern... 

 

There are alot of fine lines in this subject matter... 

unfortunately here and in other close by countries its an expression of most things negative.an inability to listen and learn,always be right even though your obviously not and poorly educated in many cases.trying to help people better themselves and learn is usually taken onboard gratefully but.......apologising when wrong or mistaken is a character plus not a minus.arrogance ...yes call it as it is,just look at the illustrious ruling classes!lying!well if thats your thing!

Ok yes Thais hate losing face, but neither do farangs, and sometimes Thais enjoy seeing farangs lose face, and for no reason except that they don't like farangs. A lot of Thai Face is due to Thai vanity. What goes around, comes around.

On 5/16/2021 at 1:49 AM, Lacessit said:

IMO the easiest way to avoid face issues in Thailand is to be non-confrontational.

There are times one has to go with the flow when it's official. OTOH, I get bad service or a dud product, I walk away, and never go back.

 

The norm in Thailand will always be the norm, but when you take your wife outside of Thailand for 9 years to see how the real world works, then return to Thailand, then you will see a changed Thai, loss of face is but a façade, and she lets them all know it.

 

Make of that, what you will, but don't get me wrong, she is as polite as the day I met her 15 years ago, but I have seen this beautiful side to her as she began to adapt and now flourish.

On 5/15/2021 at 4:40 PM, Kanada said:

100%....???? a cool and level head

Jai yen yen

12 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

She is as polite as the day I met her 15 years ago, but I have seen this beautiful side

Nice story mate.

Where did you meet her that day 15 years ago?

1 minute ago, RobMuir said:

Nice story mate.

Where did you meet her that day 15 years ago?

 

You really have issues, try to focus on the topic.

35 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

You really have issues, try to focus on the topic.

The topic is losing face.

 

Often happens when people just can't face up to the reality of a situation, or someone else points out the reality which then causes loss of face.

 

Something that not only affects Thais it seems.

 

 

Face is something that people with immature minds have problems with. Personally if I ever had that problem I finnished with it as I grew out of my teens and now I don't give a damm.

On 5/16/2021 at 7:49 AM, BritManToo said:

I'm probably one of your betters as well.

No false pride here!

Amazing.