All eyes on China’s Sinovac – Thailand’s vaccine choice for emergency

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12 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

Show me publications of Sinovacs side effects,  please.

Especially publications as thorough as the ones for side effects of mRNA vaccines,  AZ, J&J.

I will read them with great interest. 

In most of the English speaking world and Europe, the Chinese vaccines aren't being used. So naturally there will be less written about it. On the other hand, the most prominent fact repeatedly cited in headlines is that Coronavac only has an efficay of 50.4 percent. That figure is repeatedly cited here by vaccine bashers. Where do you think they got that from from? Reading medical journas? And has repeatedly been pointed by epidemiologists and public health community, that is a very poor criterion by which to judge the usefulness of a vaccine.

[Kiujunn]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext

Are you kidding? That's the phase 1/2 study. 

I want studies of rare side effects in the millions who received Sinovac in real life, just like we have these studies for the Western vaccines.

[Kiujunn]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In most of the English speaking world and Europe, the Chinese vaccines aren't being used. So naturally there will be less written about it.

?????

Other languages can be written, too. Maybe not by you.

Even Chinese can be written,  in case you didn't know.

[Kiujunn]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

50.4 percent. That figure is repeatedly cited here by vaccine bashers. Where do you think they got that from from? Reading medical journas? And has repeatedly been pointed by epidemiologists and public health community, that is a very poor criterion by which to judge the usefulness of a vaccine.

That's correct. 

Butantã has said that, too (those 50.4% came from Brazil).

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

?????

Other languages can be written, too. Maybe not by you.

Even Chinese can be written,  in case you didn't know.

.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Kiujunn said:

Are you kidding? That's the phase 1/2 study. 

I want studies of rare side effects in the millions who received Sinovac in real life, just like we have these studies for the Western vaccines.

Have you stopped to consider there may not be any rare side effects of note, therefore no side effects to study or publish. I'm pretty sure if people are dropping dead, results will be published, the same as any other vaccine.

I am still very confident that health departments all over the world are monitoring "all" vaccines equally for side effects, not sure why they would leave sinovac off the list.

[Kiujunn]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Have you stopped to consider there may not be any rare side effects of note, therefore no side effects to study or publish. I'm pretty sure if people are dropping dead, results will be published, the same as any other vaccine.

I am still very confident that health departments all over the world are monitoring "all" vaccines equally for side effects, not sure why they would leave sinovac off the list.

I have considered that there may be no rare side effects at all. I even opened a thread with this title. 

It is hard to believe. Every vaccine (not only covid vaccines) tends to have some side effects.

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

health departments all over the world are monitoring "all" vaccines equally

No.

Western health department do not and cannot monitor Sinovac(it is not used in the West).

And China is smart enough to sell the stuff only to countries they can buy off should the need arise.

 

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

?????

Other languages can be written, too. Maybe not by you.

Even Chinese can be written,  in case you didn't know.

I used google translate to turn the following phrase into portuguese: brazil sinovac coronavac side effects

 I googled the translation. efeitos colaterais do brasil sinovac coronavac

You might want to try that.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

I have considered that there may be no rare side effects at all. I even opened a thread with this title. 

It is hard to believe. Every vaccine (not only covid vaccines) tends to have some side effects.

No.

Western health department do not and cannot monitor Sinovac(it is not used in the West).

And China is smart enough to sell the stuff only to countries they can buy off should the need arise.

 

Seriously ??? Its a Chinese communist conspiracy.  We are going to need a bigger tin foil hat.

 

So if I have the phizer vac tomorrow and drop dead, that will be noted, studied, published etc. But i I have the sinovac vac tomorrow and drop dead, it wont be noted, studied, published, because China will pay the Thai government.

 

Maybe two hats are required.

[club]

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

az is cheaper than sinovac. 

Not when you count the 1 million doses of Sinovac that have been donated to Thailand

[Pravda]

20 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

And that's the key ???? Before a couple companies hit it out of the park with mRNA vaccines, anything 50% plus effective was (and still is?) the US FDA's standard for approval for a Covid-19 coronavirus vaccine. 

 

You can take it. I'll pass.

 

 

[Kiujunn]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I used google translate to turn the following phrase into portuguese: brazil sinovac coronavac side effects

 I googled the translation. efeitos colaterais do brasil sinovac coronavac

You might want to try that.

I did that long ago. No need for google, I used to live in Brazil.

[Kiujunn]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I have the sinovac vac tomorrow and drop dead, it wont be noted, studied, published,

Thai social media are full of stories like that.  I doubt them very much. 

But they are ridiculed,  written off as fake news or hysterical reactions of stupid Thai girls...I would rather see serious studies. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Kiujunn said:

I did that long ago. No need for google, I used to live in Brazil.

So why the comment about lack of stories about side effects? To those of whom it would be a concern there seem to be plenty.

[MasterBaker]

Chine had only one option and yet they are doing pretty darn good now. 50% is better than zero and i don't think any other vaccine except Sputnik V will be available in large quantities this year, So stop talking about it, roll the sleeves and get vaccination rolling

[tomazbodner]

21 hours ago, ryane66 said:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/3133977/coronavirus-uae-offer-third-dose-recipients-chinas-sinopharm

Sinovac and Sinopharm are 2 different companies. Sinopharm is already approved by WHO, Sinovac isn't.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, MasterBaker said:

Chine had only one option and yet they are doing pretty darn good now. 50% is better than zero and i don't think any other vaccine except Sputnik V will be available in large quantities this year, So stop talking about it, roll the sleeves and get vaccination rolling

Sputnik has run into serious production problems.

Big promises, few doses: why Russia's struggling to make Sputnik V doses

Transforming the site of what once was a Soviet-era car factory into a state-of-the-art facility churning out Russia's COVID-19 vaccine Sputnik V was the easy bit.

Making doses in bulk, finding qualified staff and getting equipment have been much bigger headaches for Moscow-based biotech firm R-Pharm and other private Russian companies picked to make the country's flagship shot to fight the pandemic.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/big-promises-few-doses-why-russias-struggling-make-sputnik-v-doses-2021-05-14/

[tomazbodner]

20 minutes ago, MasterBaker said:

Chine had only one option and yet they are doing pretty darn good now. 50% is better than zero and i don't think any other vaccine except Sputnik V will be available in large quantities this year, So stop talking about it, roll the sleeves and get vaccination rolling

Sputnik works in the same way as AstraZeneca or Johnson&Johnson, except it is far more effective as it is using different vector for second shot than the first, unlike AZ which uses 2 identical shots. But their problem rises from inability to monitor progress and only be able to compare results once vaccine is "fully baked". If it matches expected sample, it's a pass, else they need to toss it. That was the official response on why their output is far lower than expected. I was also surprised o see how long it takes them to produce a batch...  Removing the rest as @placeholder above just pasted the link I was quoting.

[Percy P]

21 hours ago, keith101 said:

Definitely not but it is the cheapest . 

It doesn't matter what vaccine your vaccinated with, once vaccinated you body immune  system takes over . 

[Pedrogaz]

21 hours ago, clivebaxter said:

Don't be too unkind, the Chinese did make a very good virus 

Silly, if China made the virus don't you think they would have made a treatment or vaccine before they released the virus on their public?

[Jimbone]

21 hours ago, DavisH said:

The often quoted 50% is for those with mild infections - which you could just recover from at home. It is more effective against serious infections, and should heelp you out of the crematorium. This is the way most vaccines work. 

What we don't know for sinovac is how long the antibody titre stays high, and when another booster shot may be needed. 

First I heard of increased effectiveness against serious infection. Do you have a source for that?

 

[Isaan sailor]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I'll take the placebo... no one seems to get sick from that.

Best response, thanks.

[Isaan sailor]

Roll out the Pfizer—we’ll ante up.

[tingtong]

The Brazilian data long known.

The Chinese bribe practice long known too.

 

Given a 3rd world country, and a close cut result only 0.3% above the waterline, not exactly reason for confidence.

 

But all that apart, the simple fact that now 90%+ efficiency vaccines available for similar price.

So why force sinovac?

Even other Chinese vaccines like Sinopharm way better on test results.

 

 

[cdemundo]

21 hours ago, Mavideol said:

why take it if only 50% effective, currently anybody with good immune system  has 50/50 %  (or more) chances of getting infected if getting the Chinese vax still have the same 50/50 % chances, why get it

50% effective cuts risk of symptomatic disease in half compared to a non-vaccinated person.

 

Do you think that half the vaccinated people in clinical trials had symptomatic disease?

Do you think that half the placebo group people in clinical trials had symptomatic disease?

In both cases the number of people with symptomatic disease was far smaller than that.

The efficiency and efficacy numbers compare the ratio of the number of sentinel events in vaccinated vs. placebo groups.

 

I know: effective is real world vs. efficacy is clinical trials but the misunderstanding of the nature of the percentages quoted is the same.

 

 

[placeholder]

36 minutes ago, Jimbone said:

First I heard of increased effectiveness against serious infection. Do you have a source for that?

 

There's lots of evidence to be found on the page this links to:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1218065-thailand-reports-3382-new-covid-19-cases-17-more-deaths/?tab=comments#comment-16500914

 

[cdemundo]

38 minutes ago, Jimbone said:

First I heard of increased effectiveness against serious infection. Do you have a source for that?

 

That has been reported for every vaccine as far as I know.

Highly effective against hospitalization and death.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/22/health/covid-vaccines-prevent-death/index.html

"All the Covid-19 vaccines prevent death and severe disease, and that's what matters, experts say"

 

Been reported 10 different times, 10 different ways.

[Kiujunn]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

So why the comment about lack of stories about side effects? To those of whom it would be a concern there seem to be plenty.

Stories, there are plenty. 

Serious studies,  hard to find.

[Jimbo2014]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

50.4% effective at preventing symptomatic infections overall. However, it was 78 per cent effective in preventing mild to serious cases that need hospitalisation.

 

So kind of like not having a vaccination at all ???? - the problem is that it seems other countries dont  accept you as vaccinated if you have the Sino saline.  So it may make travel difficult.

[billsmart]

22 hours ago, Pottinger said:

Not exactly Gold Standard then.

Any port in a storm... ????