AZ jab followed by 2 Pfizer or Moderna jabs?

[JTXR]

If someone managed to get a 1st shot of AstraZeneca in Thailand then went to the U.S. and decided to get 2 vaccinations of one of the mRNA vaccines, my question is, how long should they wait between the AZ jab and the 1st mRNA jab? 

I think there is some on-going research on 1 AZ jab followed by 1 Pfizer jab, but I don't know what results there may already be, and I don't know if there is any research yet on 1 AZ shot followed by 2 mRNA shots. 

 

The problem, as I see it now, is that 1 AZ followed by 1 mRNA won't be considered "fully vaccinated" by either Thailand or the U.S., so a 1+2 strategy makes sense (as long as there is no known or suspected danger).  The immediate question is how long between the 1st and 2nd shots?

[ukrules]

I'd give it a few weeks to a month if given the chance.

[DavisH]

It's 10 weeks between az jabs in Thailand. So, if it's possible, you could use that as a guide. So about 2 and a half months. 

[Randy Murican]

You might not need 2 doses of the mRNA vaccine. 1+1 should be fine based on preliminary data from this study. ( in Spanish)

 

https://www.isciii.es/Noticias/Noticias/Paginas/Noticias/Presentación-resultados-preliminares-CombivacS.aspx 

 

Here's an English language article.

 

https://www.salon.com/2021/05/23/mixing-two-different-vaccine-doses-might-actually-strengthen-covid-19-immunity-not-hurt-it/

 

[Sheryl]

No research on AZ + 2. There is on AZ +1 though still in progress.

 

For AZ+1 you'd wait the recommended interval for AZ doses i.e. 4 to 12 weeks. And from what has been anecdotally reportd from countries already doing this you'll be fine but expect increased minor side effects at dose 2.

 

Having a 3rd dose as part of original vaccine series (as opposed to a much later Booster). is unchartered territory and will probably never be researched.

 

 I have the same dilemma.

 

[Patong2021]

The initial results suggest that there is good result, but I can see why people will be confused, because how the results are reported by media will influence outcome.  If a supporter of mixed strategy, the story will emphasize protection given, and if opposed, the story emphasizes side effects.  Here is interesting article  and demonstrates mixed message.  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3 

 

 19 MAY 2021  Mix-and-match COVID vaccines trigger potent immune response - 

Preliminary results from a (Spanish) trial of more than 600 people are the first to show the benefits of combining different vaccines.

 

But the article also make reference to UK study preliminary results which shows;

UK study called Com-COV, which analysed combinations of the same two vaccines, found that people in the mix-and-match groups experienced higher rates of common vaccine-related side effects, such as fever, than did people who received two doses of the same vaccine1. In the Spanish CombivacS trial, mild side effects were common, and similar to those seen in standard COVID-19 vaccine regimens. None was deemed severe.

 

I think it will work and the real world reduction of infections and deaths in countries where there is use of Astra Zeneca, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is strong indication that it will help.  We have come so far, from hoping for a vaccine to now discussing if we can mix and match. 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Patong2021

[Jeffr2]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:12 PM, Sheryl said:

No research on AZ + 2. There is on AZ +1 though still in progress.

 

For AZ+1 you'd wait the recommended interval for AZ doses i.e. 4 to 12 weeks. And from what has been anecdotally reportd from countries already doing this you'll be fine but expect increased minor side effects at dose 2.

 

Having a 3rd dose as part of original vaccine series (as opposed to a much later Booster). is unchartered territory and will probably never be researched.

 

 I have the same dilemma.

 

We were in the same dilemma until today!  I'm scheduled for June 16th to get the AZ jab.  Now reading that may be delayed, and same with the 2nd shot!  Forget it.  Pulled the trigger and going back to the US for our Pfizer shots.  Tired of waiting here for them to get their act together.

 

Best of luck to you!  Love all the help you provide on this forum.  It's much appreciated.

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

We were in the same dilemma until today!  I'm scheduled for June 16th to get the AZ jab.  Now reading that may be delayed, and same with the 2nd shot!  Forget it.  Pulled the trigger and going back to the US for our Pfizer shots.  Tired of waiting here for them to get their act together.

 

 

Yes, I was just thinking that my dilemma may be solved for me when I read of the expected shortfall.

 

I'm scheduled for June 8 and leave for the US 5 July. So possible getting AZ here before I go won't be possible anyhow.

 

While it removes the need for a difficult decision, it means flying unvaccinated which is what I wanted to avoid.

 

Oh well, so it goes.

 

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Yes, I was just thinking that my dilemma may be solved for me when I read of the expected shortfall.

 

I'm scheduled for June 8 and leave for the US 5 July. So possible getting AZ here before I go won't be possible anyhow.

 

While it removes the need for a difficult decision, it means flying unvaccinated which is what I wanted to avoid.

 

Oh well, so it goes.

 

That was our same concern, flying unvaccinated.  We're going to have a neighbor take us to the airport, which is DEAD!  No worries there.  Everyone on the flight will have been recently tested.  Tokyo is a great airport to transit. 

 

My big worry is in the US.  Airports are getting busier and they've got lots of loony's there who don't believe in masks or social distancing!

 

Our friends are picking us up, they've been fully vaccinated.  We get out jabs the next day, and just stay at their house for 2 weeks.  Maybe move on after that.

 

NO FUN!!

[khunjeff]

The information below is from the US CDC. AZ falls into the first category, and Sinovac into the second:

 

Some people may have received a COVID-19 vaccine that is not currently authorized in the United States. No data are available on the safety or efficacy of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine currently authorized in the United States after receipt of a non-FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. However, in some circumstances people who received a COVID-19 vaccine not currently authorized in the United States may be offered revaccination with an FDA-authorized vaccine:

 

COVID-19 vaccines not authorized by FDA but listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO):

 

- People who have received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that has been listed for emergency use by WHO do not need any additional doses with an FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine.

 

- People who have not received all the recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine listed for emergency use by WHO may be offered a complete FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine series.

 

COVID-19 vaccines neither authorized by FDA nor listed for emergency use by WHO:

 

- People who received all or some of the recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that is neither authorized by FDA nor listed for emergency use by WHO may be offered a complete FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine series.

 

The minimum interval between the last dose of a non-FDA authorized vaccine or a WHO-listed vaccine and an FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine is 28 days. Only people who have received all recommended doses of an FDA-authorized or WHO-listed COVID-19 vaccine are considered fully vaccinated for the purpose of public health guidance.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html

[tomazbodner]

I hear in Europe those who got COVID are asked to wait for 6 months before being vaccinated. I assume they use Pfizer to vaccinate, but not sure if they get 1 or 2 shots. I'm confident of the 6 months rule as I know several who got infected and that's the answer they've got when they registered for vaccination.

 

As getting COVID would be similar to getting a vaccine, this is what at least there they consider safe period. I don't know how wise it would be to mix and match without any proper research.

Edited May 25, 2021 by tomazbodner

[Pmbkk]

5 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I hear in Europe those who got COVID are asked to wait for 6 months before being vaccinated. I assume they use Pfizer to vaccinate, but not sure if they get 1 or 2 shots. I'm confident of the 6 months rule as I know several who got infected and that's the answer they've got when they registered for vaccination.

 

I haven't heard of this in the UK. 

Both my Thai wife and I have had covid & we have been vaccinated within that 6 months parameter.

[khunPer]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:38 AM, JTXR said:

I think there is some on-going research on 1 AZ jab followed by 1 Pfizer jab, but I don't know what results there may already be, and I don't know if there is any research yet on 1 AZ shot followed by 2 mRNA shots.

There has been some observations in Denmark, as they abandoned the AZ-vaccine. Second jab with a Pfizer works (so far), but there are more side effects than with both jabs from same vaccine. However, there are only few observations and no longer term experience, as it's recently that Denmark stopped using AZ, and thereafter so did Norway and lately furthermore Hungary.

[Paradise Pete]

What's going on here? All good information and no fear-mongering in this thread? Don't you people realize this is the internet?

 

Anyway, all the indications so far are that mixing the vaccines is at least as good as one, and the time between doses should be whatever the tested time was for the vaccine you got.

 

All in all it's a borderline miracle how well these things work.

[DFPhuket]

I flew to the US one month ago. With the flights from Bangkok to the US being mostly empty and everyone being required to have a negative Covid result before flying, I felt safe.

 

Once I landed in the US there was more concern since the airports were crowded, but the infection rate has dramatically dropped. I was carefully masked up and was able to stay distantanced most of the time. I got my first Pfizer shot 12 hours after arrival and my second shot 1 week ago. 

[Bubbha]

8 hours ago, Sheryl said:

While it removes the need for a difficult decision, it means flying unvaccinated which is what I wanted to avoid.

 

Oh well, so it goes.

I arrived in the US over two weeks ago. Like you, I was trying to avoid flying as an unvaccinated traveler. However, I had urgent family issues to attend to. I found the airport and airline covid precautions to be quite good. Aircraft are now fitted with HEPA filters that scrub out at 99.7% and completely renew and refresh air every 3 minutes.  I flew on Emirates from Bangkok to Boston and there was plenty of room on both flights. Not so for my follow-on domestic flight from Boston. I had my first does of Moderna vaccine the day after my arrival. I am now beyond 14 days since travel so it seems reasonable to think that I was not infected from the trip over.

 

All the best of luck for your travel back. Vaccines are easily accessible here - quite unlike Thailand.

[Dragonboat Ronin]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

..I'm scheduled for June 8 and leave for the US 5 July..

...That was our same concern, flying unvaccinated...

First i want to thank both Sheryl & Jeffr2 for being 2 of the most informative & genuinely helpful people on this forum. If you can, i recommend a strong vitamin & immune booster regimen before travel & try to get as much rest as you can in the air. I'm curious if you dont mind to respond: are you both heading to the US specifically for the better options in vaccination? Salutes & safe travels.

 

[Yme]

It's too early to know the results of mix and match. Trials are still underway. It's too early to nknow what the medium and long term effects of any of the vaccines are. 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Yme

[Sheryl]

9 hours ago, Dragonboat Ronin said:

First i want to thank both Sheryl & Jeffr2 for being 2 of the most informative & genuinely helpful people on this forum. If you can, i recommend a strong vitamin & immune booster regimen before travel & try to get as much rest as you can in the air. I'm curious if you dont mind to respond: are you both heading to the US specifically for the better options in vaccination? Salutes & safe travels.

 

 

No. Urgent family reasons.

 

 

[Ireland32]

On 5/23/2021 at 8:14 PM, DavisH said:

It's 10 weeks between az jabs in Thailand. So, if it's possible, you could use that as a guide. So about 2 and a half months. 

It said 6 weeks in the news 

[Ireland32]

22 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

We were in the same dilemma until today!  I'm scheduled for June 16th to get the AZ jab.  Now reading that may be delayed, and same with the 2nd shot!  Forget it.  Pulled the trigger and going back to the US for our Pfizer shots.  Tired of waiting here for them to get their act together.

 

Best of luck to you!  Love all the help you provide on this forum.  It's much appreciated.

I’m going Jun 17 I hope Japan remains open for transiting 

[Ireland32]

13 hours ago, Bubbha said:

I arrived in the US over two weeks ago. Like you, I was trying to avoid flying as an unvaccinated traveler. However, I had urgent family issues to attend to. I found the airport and airline covid precautions to be quite good. Aircraft are now fitted with HEPA filters that scrub out at 99.7% and completely renew and refresh air every 3 minutes.  I flew on Emirates from Bangkok to Boston and there was plenty of room on both flights. Not so for my follow-on domestic flight from Boston. I had my first does of Moderna vaccine the day after my arrival. I am now beyond 14 days since travel so it seems reasonable to think that I was not infected from the trip over.

 

All the best of luck for your travel back. Vaccines are easily accessible here - quite unlike Thailand.

And FREE 

[Ireland32]

5 hours ago, Yme said:

It's too early to know the results of mix and match. Trials are still underway. It's too early to nknow what the medium and long term effects of any of the vaccines are. 

 

Check that Spanish Study of 600 people 

[lavender19]

Don't you think it would be better to ask a medical professional. 

[DavisH]

12 hours ago, Ireland32 said:

It said 6 weeks in the news 

No it's 10 weeks officially. However, there is the plan to increase that to 16 weeks now, for those being given az in June and beyond. It seems they want to give more people the first dose, and there are delays with production as we have all read about. 

[drenddy]

I have the option to choose Moderna very soon, after getting AZ jab first. 

 

Problem is... Will this combo be accepted by Thailand?

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by drenddy

[shdmn]

50 minutes ago, drenddy said:

I have the option to choose Moderna very soon, after getting AZ jab first. 

 

Problem is... Will this combo be accepted by Thailand?

 

I have been wondering the same thing.  They will probably accept mixed once that is approved by UK and other medical organizations but no guarantees.

Edited May 26, 2021 by shdmn

[drenddy]

3 minutes ago, shdmn said:

I have been wondering the same thing.  They will probably accept mixed once that is approved by UK and other medical organizations but no guarantees.

 

Yes, perhaps, but they require 14 days quarantine for fully vaccinated travellers, which I doubt it's entirely politically motivated. 

This says alot about their academic capabilities. 

They are incompetent as well. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by drenddy

[Letseng]

On 5/23/2021 at 3:14 PM, DavisH said:

It's 10 weeks between az jabs in Thailand. So, if it's possible, you could use that as a guide. So about 2 and a half months. 

Just read UK reduced to 8 weeks betw. AZ jabs. Germany uses Pfizer as 2nd. Gap about10 weeks. Oxford does research into heterologue jabs. Mice trials look good. Results expected about Sept. You can find info on the internet.

[EricTh]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:05 AM, Patong2021 said:

The initial results suggest that there is good result, but I can see why people will be confused, because how the results are reported by media will influence outcome.  If a supporter of mixed strategy, the story will emphasize protection given, and if opposed, the story emphasizes side effects.  Here is interesting article  and demonstrates mixed message.  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3 

 

 19 MAY 2021  Mix-and-match COVID vaccines trigger potent immune response - 

Preliminary results from a (Spanish) trial of more than 600 people are the first to show the benefits of combining different vaccines.

 

But the article also make reference to UK study preliminary results which shows;

UK study called Com-COV, which analysed combinations of the same two vaccines, found that people in the mix-and-match groups experienced higher rates of common vaccine-related side effects, such as fever, than did people who received two doses of the same vaccine1. In the Spanish CombivacS trial, mild side effects were common, and similar to those seen in standard COVID-19 vaccine regimens. None was deemed severe.

 

I think it will work and the real world reduction of infections and deaths in countries where there is use of Astra Zeneca, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is strong indication that it will help.  We have come so far, from hoping for a vaccine to now discussing if we can mix and match. 

 

 

I wouldn't put too much weight into these 'analysis'. Real clinical trials need at least one year or more to see the effects.

 

How long have this mix and match been going on and documented?

 

Else why did the vaccines got approved more than 1 year after the virus appeared?