Vietnam Visa update - big changes

[Zikomat]

3 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The options for the western low class in SE Asia are slowly shrinking. Where to now? Vietnam kicking them out, Thailand according to TVF is getting worse and worse, Myanmar under coup, Cambodia taken over by the Chinese, Malaysia expensive, Indonesia muslim, India they are drinking one beer with 4 straws, Philippines crime and bad food..looks like only PNG left!

Thailand is still OK. Long live the King!

[Ventenio]

There should be a government response.  Not from Vietnam (yet), but from the other country.  Kick out an American, there should be equal treatment from America.  Not saying it's right, but two can play at this game.   Why?  Vietnam loves money.   loves, loves the hustle.  America has the money.   You want to kick out Americans, you lose money.  then Americans kick out Vietnamese or reject visas........

 

same with every country.   

 

this game is horrible.   should've been done a long time ago and then just blame covid.  now?  now every expat in the world will say "no" to vietnam.   word spreads

 

visit, sure.   

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

There should be a government response.  Not from Vietnam (yet), but from the other country.  Kick out an American, there should be equal treatment from America.  Not saying it's right, but two can play at this game.   Why?  Vietnam loves money.   loves, loves the hustle.  America has the money.   You want to kick out Americans, you lose money.  then Americans kick out Vietnamese or reject visas........

 

same with every country.   

 

this game is horrible.   should've been done a long time ago and then just blame covid.  now?  now every expat in the world will say "no" to vietnam.   word spreads

 

visit, sure.   

I'm not on board with that.

Vietnam never promised anyone permanent residence based on tourist visa runs.

Also no country should be expected to tolerate people using fake business scams to stay. 

[BenDeCosta]

Laughable that Thailand is trying to target rich ex-pats and tourists. Rich people want luxury, not stinking khlongs, rodents in the streets at night, blatant prostitution, beaches strewn with trash and tuk-tuk drivers passed out drunk on the pavements.

 

They'd go to places like Antigua, Singapore, Tokyo and Monaco.

 

If the Thais had any sense, they'd focus on the very people who made Thailand popular in the first place, i.e. budget travelers, backpackers, gap-year students and single men. You can't just turn a third-world country into a destination for the jet-setting elite with a few press releases. Pure insanity.

 

Thailand was a great place to holiday for Westerners because it had great weather, good food, amazing beaches and the icing on the cake was that it was cheap. Once it's no longer cheap, then there are many other places in the world that can offer more for less. They're shooting themselves in the foot, but they probably don't even know that they're holding a gun. They just don't have a clue.

 

If I was a multi-millionaire ex-pat, no way in hell would I be in Thailand. I would be living in the Bahamas in a super-luxury apartment and wouldn't give Thailand a second thought. No well-heeled and successful business person would choose Thailand, because you can get better elsewhere. The immigration rules and visa requirements are a massive hassle.

 

Thailand trying to appeal to super rich tourists is like Las Vegas appealing to people who don't gamble and don't drink. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Las Vegas is for people who like to gamble, and Thailand is for people who like to travel on a budget.

Edited June 9, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[La Quenta]

26 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

Laughable that Thailand is trying to target rich ex-pats and tourists. Rich people want luxury, not stinking khlongs, rodents in the streets at night, blatant prostitution, beaches strewn with trash and tuk-tuk drivers passed out drunk on the pavements.

 

They'd go to places like Antigua, Singapore, Tokyo and Monaco.

 

If the Thais had any sense, they'd focus on the very people who made Thailand popular in the first place, i.e. budget travelers, backpackers, gap-year students and single men. You can't just turn a third-world country into a destination for the jet-setting elite with a few press releases. Pure insanity.

 

Thailand was a great place to holiday for Westerners because it had great weather, good food, amazing beaches and the icing on the cake was that it was cheap. Once it's no longer cheap, then there are many other places in the world that can offer more for less. They're shooting themselves in the foot, but they probably don't even know that they're holding a gun. They just don't have a clue.

 

If I was a multi-millionaire ex-pat, no way in hell would I be in Thailand. I would be living in the Bahamas in a super-luxury apartment and wouldn't give Thailand a second thought. No well-heeled and successful business person would choose Thailand, because you can get better elsewhere.

 

That is an interesting point. In fact, it aligns a bit with Vietnam who recently abolished most of the investor Visa options unless you bring in $130,000k minimum to spend. 

 

There is certainly a delusion both Governments have that multi-millionaires will plunge in en masse. But the fact is, there is a hell of a lot of competition, and multi-millionaires don't grow on trees. 

 

I appreciate the need for Vietnam to tighten up its visa rules...long overdue.

The issue is:

 

1. no communication - everyone is in the dark

2. no warning with very short time to get out - at a time where lockdowns are running rampant and flights are few. 

3. systemic corruption within Immi departments that permitted the bending of visa rules for so long that even BIG business took it as a given. 

4. The broken agent system. 

5. The madness of not offering some form of long term Visa for self-funded retirees with health insurance. It's free money for the taking. 

6. The systemic difficulties in getting a simple work permit if you qualify for one.

Edited June 9, 2021 by La Quenta

[bojo]

25 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

If I was a multi-millionaire ex-pat, no way in hell would I be in Thailand. I would be living in the Bahamas in a super-luxury apartment and wouldn't give Thailand a second thought. No well-heeled and successful business person would choose Thailand, because you can get better elsewhere.

 

Interesting you say that and you also mention about backpackers being the ones who made the country popular in the first place..................I gotta be honest and I'm no multi millionaire or backpacker  for that matter, but I certainly wouldn't want to live in a super lux apartment, probably full of pretentious folks, but you might catch me in the Dominican again, not been since late 90's, had loadsa fun there and really reminds me of Thailand actually...........................So, yes, you're right about the well heeled bit, they tend not to enjoy the 'edgy bits' which IMO is one of the most fun parts about Thailand..............but I gotta also, say, I know many successful business people who either live in the Kingdom or come time and time again and I fancy it's the laidbackness and unpretentiousness of the place which is the main draw, not just the food, the beaches, the friendly locals, the sun, the girls or whatever etc etc etc...........................there's alot to be said for laidbackness and unpretentiousness when you've had a gutfull of the opposite half your life................

[BenDeCosta]

If you were a millionaire businessman then you could go anywhere in the world.

 

Why, oh why would such a person choose Thailand? It makes zero sense.

 

If you can be living the life of riley in the south of France, San Marino, Monaco or the Caribbean, why on Earth would such a person ever want to go to Thailand? Thailand attracted budget travelers for decades and did amazingly well off the back of it. But now they want to try and attract only rich visitors, but they have not changed anything at all. Rich tourists want a luxury experience. Sure you can stay in a 5-star hotel, but when you go outside, you'll see the real Thailand.

 

Rich tourists want to be pampered, not exposed to filthy beaches, second-rate bars filled with prostitutes, disgusting food packed with oil, sugar and salt, and taxi drivers who are only trying to rip you off.

 

Rich people will take their vacations in places that can provide them a little slice of luxury, Thailand is not that place. If they focused on getting back the kinds of tourists that made them rich, then maybe they'd be successful. Thailand is a budget destination, that is what they thrived on. If they try and insist on only rich tourists, nobody will bother because there are many better places to go.

[bojo]

7 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

But now they want to try and attract only rich visitors, but they have not changed anything at all. Rich tourists want a luxury experience. Sure you can stay in a 5-star hotel, but when you go outside, you'll see the real Thailand.

 

Rich tourists want to be pampered,

You are correct and they have no chance ATM of attracting the filthy rich, probably ever in fact.........................personally, I wish the country would go back to the 'early days' as I think most on this forum would also (I do enjoy fast internet and other mod cons tho/gotta have your cake and eat it !!), but that's not going to happen unfortunately............real shame that, but being seen as the '21st Century budget friendly' alternative especially after initially being seen as the 'place to go' pre Millenium wouldn't sit well with the powers that be.................

[Destiny1990]

Where is that new immigration law then? Why on Vietnam forum there is not much talk about this?

[GrahamJ]

1 hour ago, Maha Sarakham said:

 

Food.

Customer Service.

Hospitality.

Variety of natural landscapes (and taken care of far better).

Honesty & no dual pricing.

I'd even go as far to say they may even be nicer/friendlier than most of the Thais these days.

 

My wife is Thai but neither she nor I are blind to the benefits of Vietnam.  We both would like to go back after covid is 'over', we both immensely enjoyed it.

I agree everything you said except for food. Thailands cuisine is far superior to Vietnam but that's my opinion.

[rcuthbert]

Stupidity on steroids. They had a chance to capture Thailand's - post-Covid - expat, and high season tourist, dollar.

[mfd101]

I'm not sure why people are so surprised that up-and-coming Third World countries full of hard-working energetic people are not particularly interested in non-rich Western residents. If you look at your own home countries, you'll find that mostly they're not much different in attitude.

 

I'm not across the details of entry to Oz as I'm a citizen but basically if you're not in the main categories (family reunion, refugee (however defined), paying job in an area of skilled labour shortage, or minimum of something like $2 or more millions to invest) then your chances of getting in for more than a few weeks as a tourist are slight. If you announced that you wanted to retire there on nothing more than, say, a British pension, they wouldn't even give you the forms to fill in.

 

[bojo]

7 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

What's in YOUR "bug-out" bag?

Ability to adapt and get my head around the fact that I might not always get want I hoped for.........!

[bojo]

3 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I'm not sure why people are so surprised that up-and-coming Third World countries full of hard-working energetic people are not particularly interested in non-rich Western residents.

Must be a long term belief in 'self entitlement'  right?

[audaciousnomad]

1 hour ago, La Quenta said:

 Up until this April, there were options to get a permit (with just a Degree, no other caveats) with 2-3 year resident card. Also 3 month business and 3 month tourist visas.

 

The difference now - work permits are much trickier to get all of a sudden, and only 1 month tourist visas and almost all the business visas are being eradicated. 

Because most of those biz visas were fraudulent. ????

[Maha Sarakham]

32 minutes ago, GrahamJ said:

I agree everything you said except for food. Thailands cuisine is far superior to Vietnam but that's my opinion.

 

My wife and I go back and forth on this, too.  I think Vietnamese food for me inches out Thai food due to the French influence of the fresh breads, spices, and varied use of herbs.  Thai food seems more focused on the use of chilis and heat to really amp up the meal, which is great in its own right too.  Definitely a close one!

[phills2k1]

2 hours ago, Poet said:

Honestly, these days, the US seems to be far more in the grip of Communism than Vietnam.

Those "50 million motorbikes beeping the horn all at the same time without even a break" were not on their way to a "White Guilt" re-education session, they were out there hustling and 100% focused on making dough.

They certainly work a lot harder, and are far more ambitious, than the Thais.

 

Just curious, in what way do you mean this?  More on the socialist or the fascist side of things?

[Ron jeremy]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Definitely look up back up options but I don't see Thailand doing what Vietnam did. The trend I see in Thailand is trying to attract richer and richer expats though. Whether that adds up to an over zealous "filtering" of less rich expats remains to be seen. 

You don’t see Thailand doing this???

are you for real?

where do u think these people came from?

vast majority were those kicked out of Thailand a few years back, they came thete for the lax visa rules.

thailand clamped down and kicked them out!

then they went next door to take advantage of the easy visas. Border runs etc.

they we’re handing out rubber visas a, business visas to anyone!

vietnam finally smartened up , had enough of the economic refugees too!

thailand didn’t want them, Vietnam doesn’t either!

where else in the world can you live on a tourist visa, or phony visa?

kudos to Vietnam for doing this!

ive always had a great time in Vietnam 

better food

better value

woman are head and heels above the Thai woman

educated youth, this is why the tech companies are moving there 

hard working, not lazy

far more friendly than the Thais 

they are actually happy to have me there , and not just for my money 

clean beaches with water I can actually swim in, with free showers. Toilets available 

perhaps Thailand can take back these (@&?!) people they kicked out several years ago

[Why Me]

VN is a poor man's Thailand. Food and accommodation is cheaper but edges harder and people more aggressive. Made a few week-long business trips a year to HCM and Hanoi (from Bkk) for several years till 2016. Bkk is a lot safer, especially at night, and classier and more diverse in terms of places to go out to, clubs, restaurants bars, shops, entertainment venues et al.

 

But I did like that the few expats I met in VN were mostly young go-getter types trying to set up shop in an up and coming country. Very different vibe from the farang oldie crowd ubiquitous here.

And the VN youth, the few I interacted with at least, all seemed particularly enamored of Singapore, more so than the US where I am from, which kind of told me where their head space was.

 

VN sees a future for itself as a Singapore-style Asian business/enterprise hub rather than a Thai-style tourist mecca. In fact, their repeat tourism numbers - percentage of tourists coming back - were dismal compared to Thailand when I last checked so hospitality/service clearly is not their forte, no matter scenic attractions.

 

But they know what their strength is which probably explains visa-issuing preferences. They want neither rickety retirees nor indigent backpackers. Investors and entrepreneurs are who they are after.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Why Me

[Poet]

1 hour ago, phills2k1 said:

More on the socialist or the fascist side of things?

Same Same but different.

[Andy from Kent]

4 hours ago, madmen said:

Better than Thailand in what way? They despise westerners at a whole new level. It's just a 3rd world dump on par with Cambodia 

 

 

It sure sounds like either you haven't been to Vietnam or you've seen a different one than I did.

 

[Poet]

44 minutes ago, Why Me said:

And the VN youth, the few I interacted with at least, all seemed particularly enamored of Singapore, more so than the US where I am from

Perhaps there might be some sort of historical reason for that odd lack of enthusiasm.
 

46 minutes ago, Why Me said:

VN sees a future for itself as a Singapore-style Asian business/enterprise hub rather than a Thai-style tourist mecca.

Huge country, massive coastline. They can do both.

Being able to be both types of hub, in a way that Thailand never could, bolsters the overall package.

 

49 minutes ago, Why Me said:

In fact, their repeat tourism numbers - percentage of tourists coming back - were dismal compared to Thailand

Thailand's figures are nonsense.

Thailand counts everyone who lands, even those in transit, as visitors. As the region's main air hub, this rather stacks the figures in their favor.

For example, someone flying from Frankfurt to HCMC via BKK counts as a visitor to Thailand, both on the way to Thailand and on the way back to Germany. That return leg makes them "a repeat tourist", even if they never got further into Thailand than the transit area.
 

54 minutes ago, Why Me said:

hospitality/service clearly is not their forte

This is just wildly wrong. Star for star, the hotels in Vietnam are far better and the attitude of the staff is the main part of that. The breakfast buffets are wonderful, more welcoming and better organized than any I have had in Thailand. The bars are hip, the restaurants - both cheap and expensive - are as good as their equivalents in Thailand.

I would say that hospitality/service is very much the forte of both Thailand and Vietnam, but my experience has been that the Viets have more energy, friendliness, and intelligence. There are asses and idiots in both countries, for sure, but Thailand now has more of them. That does not stop Thailand being miles ahead of most other countries.
 

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

They want neither rickety retirees nor indigent backpackers. Investors and entrepreneurs are who they are after.

Like Thailand, they fail to understand that, in our less hierarchical Western societies, the various groups are not so easily separable.

The "rich" Westerner will happily sit at a bar, shooting the <deleted> with a random selection of "poor" Westerners. We enjoy the variety and would mostly hate to be restricted to "five star" activities. Boring!

For visitors to, say, Bangkok or Pattaya, the presence of a lively Western scene is part of the fun. For expats thinking of living in Chiang Mai or Hua Hin, one of the first questions they ask is whether there will be other expats to socialize with, and they genuinely don't care about their bank balances.

If Thailand and Vietnam start to cull the Westerners who they believe bring little value, they will dramatically reduce their attractiveness to the very Western investors, entrepreneurs and millionaires they want to attract.

Apart from criminals, is there any such thing as a Westerner that does not end up making a net contribution to these countries?

A smart policy would be to let anyone come in and stay for as long as they want, as long as they are self-funded. That is how you lay the foundation for the higher spenders to come too.

 

[Why Me]

24 minutes ago, Poet said:

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

And the VN youth, the few I interacted with at least, all seemed particularly enamored of Singapore, more so than the US where I am from

Perhaps there might be some sort of historical reason for that odd lack of enthusiasm.

Not sure what you mean. Enamored means enthusiastic. The young VNers love Singapore. Epitome of Asia to their mind. Can't blame them that they don't care as much for the US.

 

30 minutes ago, Poet said:

Thailand's figures are nonsense.

Thailand counts everyone who lands, even those in transit, as visitors. As the region's main air hub, this rather stacks the figures in their favor.

For example, someone flying from Frankfurt to HCMC via BKK counts as a visitor to Thailand, both on the way to Thailand and on the way back to Germany. That return leg makes them "a repeat tourist", even if they never got further into Thailand than the transit area.

 

Calm down. These are international hospitality org stats. Thailand is by far the bigger tourist draw.

 

33 minutes ago, Poet said:

The bars are hip, the restaurants - both cheap and expensive - are as good as their equivalents in Thailand.

No serious person puts either HCMC or Hanoi in the same league as Bkk or HK or Singpore. Like comparing Naperville and Chicago. But I take your point that equivalent service costs less in VN. Definitely if I were on a shoestring in Asia I would prefer VN/Cambodia/Laos to Bkk, Singapore.

 

41 minutes ago, Poet said:

Like Thailand, they fail to understand that, in our less hierarchical Western societies, the various groups are not so easily separable.

The "rich" Westerner will happily sit at a bar, shooting the <deleted> with a random selection of "poor" <snip>

Your western entitlement is showing:-) They give a rat's what we want from them. As should be. It's their country. It's what they want from us that matters. Which is long-stayers who bring wealth and business (and wealthy tourists of course). Not old men chasing cheap flesh.

 

And, no, we westerners don't shoot the breeze with all and sundry either. We're pretty tribal too. A young American with an international outfit drawing 300k/month expat package in Bkk won't be seen dead in the Beer Garden Soi 5. He'll be in a Thong Lor nightclub with a dropdead babe on his arm. And a 60 year old farang with a Soi 4 hooker does not get into that club. The two worlds are separate. But good thing is Thailand caters to both. VN wants just the one and not the other. Fine, their country their rules.

 

53 minutes ago, Poet said:

A smart policy would be to let anyone come in and stay for as long as they want, as long as they are self-funded. That is how you lay the foundation for the higher spenders to come too.

That would be dumb. The place would be flooded with losers scraping by. Class attracts class. Money money.

 

I am just grateful Thailand has (till now) a relaxed retirement immigration policy. Still might happen any day I get a tap on my shoulder that Chinese millionaires have filled the quota and I need to pack my bags. Which is when I'll make a call to a friend in Da Nang:-)

[Poet]

3 hours ago, Why Me said:

Not sure what you mean. Enamored means enthusiastic. The young VNers love Singapore. Epitome of Asia to their mind. Can't blame them that they don't care as much for the US.

Are you seriously unaware that, less than 50 years ago, your country was slaughtering millions of Vietnamese civilians and bombing their infrastructure into the stone age?

It was a pretty big deal at the time.

US soldiers deliberately spread a toxic defoliant that, to this day, has resulted in over half-a-million Vietnamese children being born with birth defects. Your country then pointlessly strangled the Vietnamese economy with a truly petty sanctions until 1994. The embargo was only fully lifted five years ago.

You talk of my "Western entitlement" and, yet, it doesn't even occur to you that the Vietnamese might admire Singapore more than the US because Singapore never tried obliterate their country.

I won't bother commenting on the rest of your equally clueless post.

[metisdead]

Some posts using trolling images or trolling video with inappropriate language have been removed. 

[bojo]

7 hours ago, Why Me said:

VN is a poor man's Thailand. Food and accommodation is cheaper but edges harder and people more aggressive. Made a few week-long business trips a year to HCM and Hanoi (from Bkk) for several years till 2016. Bkk is a lot safer, especially at night, and classier and more diverse in terms of places to go out to, clubs, restaurants bars, shops, entertainment venues et al.

 

But I did like that the few expats I met in VN were mostly young go-getter types trying to set up shop in an up and coming country. Very different vibe from the farang oldie crowd ubiquitous here.

And the VN youth, the few I interacted with at least, all seemed particularly enamored of Singapore, more so than the US where I am from, which kind of told me where their head space was.

 

VN sees a future for itself as a Singapore-style Asian business/enterprise hub rather than a Thai-style tourist mecca. In fact, their repeat tourism numbers - percentage of tourists coming back - were dismal compared to Thailand when I last checked so hospitality/service clearly is not their forte, no matter scenic attractions.

 

But they know what their strength is which probably explains visa-issuing preferences. They want neither rickety retirees nor indigent backpackers. Investors and entrepreneurs are who they are after.

Good post, succinct and no prisoners taken........................ 

[tomazbodner]

Amazing. Not long ago TVF experts were bashing Thailand and saying Vietnam was the best place on the Planet to move to...

 

How quickly things change...

[La Quenta]

7 hours ago, Why Me said:

VN is a poor man's Thailand. Food and accommodation is cheaper but edges harder and people more aggressive. Made a few week-long business trips a year to HCM and Hanoi (from Bkk) for several years till 2016. Bkk is a lot safer, especially at night, and classier and more diverse in terms of places to go out to, clubs, restaurants bars, shops, entertainment venues et al.

 

But I did like that the few expats I met in VN were mostly young go-getter types trying to set up shop in an up and coming country. Very different vibe from the farang oldie crowd ubiquitous here.

And the VN youth, the few I interacted with at least, all seemed particularly enamored of Singapore, more so than the US where I am from, which kind of told me where their head space was.

 

VN sees a future for itself as a Singapore-style Asian business/enterprise hub rather than a Thai-style tourist mecca. In fact, their repeat tourism numbers - percentage of tourists coming back - were dismal compared to Thailand when I last checked so hospitality/service clearly is not their forte, no matter scenic attractions.

 

But they know what their strength is which probably explains visa-issuing preferences. They want neither rickety retirees nor indigent backpackers. Investors and entrepreneurs are who they are after.

The 'poor mans' cliche makes little sense. Both countries are incredibly different. If that is the way you view it, then I think it betrays your lack of intellectualism or cultural curiosity. 

 

To address a few of your issues breifly

- LIke Thailand, Vietnam has upmarket nightclubs, classy restaurants, and a diverse range of bars and restaurants - every cuisine is in VN if you want it in the major cities. 

- VN aren't specifically enamoured with Singapore. There is a lot of admiration for South Korea and Japan, European countries, as well as the US believe it or not. 

- correct on the expat crowd in terms of demographic, which tends to have a younger average age, although there are still a number of older ones about too. Even some war vets. Also, Vietnam has always seemed to have many more mainland European and American expats, but Thailand has more British expats. 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

10 hours ago, La Quenta said:

It's got that French feel

FRENCH feel my azs...when i was there at the duty free airport shop all products were 2 dollars.

yes 2 u.s. dollars.

communism is one thing, but to price all products in u.s. dollars, and one price?

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

do not be surprised if similar thing will happan in thailand.

government can decide overnight to cancell all retirement visas, and

all WP which does not earn certain amount.

seems like vietnamese government is under stress, like many other governments, and

want to clean up the ai farang scenery.