Swimming pools and gyms to reopen on Monday 14th?

[Leaver]

10 hours ago, BestB said:

When 3rd wave started, Phuket was one of the first to close its borders , while Pattaya kept saying welcome.

 

I think Pattaya by far more money hungry, not people but local government .

 

also Phuket kept all restrictions , Pattaya lifting a few and yet as you said part of nationwide totals 

 

Phuket is an island province.  It's a lot easier to seal off a province when it's an island.  

[BestB]

33 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Phuket is an island province.  It's a lot easier to seal off a province when it's an island.  

Indeed no argument , only Pattaya did nothing , not even check points, if anything kept inviting people from BKk to fill hotel rooms for 1 -2 nights 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, BestB said:

Indeed no argument , only Pattaya did nothing , not even check points, if anything kept inviting people from BKk to fill hotel rooms for 1 -2 nights 

 

True.

 

The almighty baht wins out every time, even in life and death situations.  

[The Hammer2021]

My pool never closed MPs remained open as did hairdressers. etc

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, BestB said:

Indeed no argument , only Pattaya did nothing , not even check points, if anything kept inviting people from BKk to fill hotel rooms for 1 -2 nights 

Why keep spreading the false implications.

The root cause of the Chonburi rise in infections came from the hundred or so cases found in a pub on the outskirts of Chonburi city on the 10th of April, before Songkran.

The problems did not originate in Pattaya.

A significant number of the cases from the pub were from Bangkok so in hindsight interprovincial travel should have been stopped before the outbreak.

"only Pattaya did nothing"  - it may come as a surprise but it is not up to Pattaya to control the provincial borders.

[WaveHunter]

My Condo pool is now opened again, as of this morning...One step closer to feeling normal again!  YAY!!! ????

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by WaveHunter

[BestB]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Why keep spreading the false implications.

The root cause of the Chonburi rise in infections came from the hundred or so cases found in a pub on the outskirts of Chonburi city on the 10th of April, before Songkran.

The problems did not originate in Pattaya.

A significant number of the cases from the pub were from Bangkok so in hindsight interprovincial travel should have been stopped before the outbreak.

"only Pattaya did nothing"  - it may come as a surprise but it is not up to Pattaya to control the provincial borders.

Flash news it is up to provincial authorities to control its borders and has been said so and put into practice hence some provinces require 14 days lock up, others want to see test and some simply closed. 
 

also do tell which part of my post said Covid originated in Pattaya ?

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Flash news it is up to provincial authorities to control its borders and has been said so and put into practice hence some provinces require 14 days lock up, others want to see test and some simply closed. 
 

also do tell which part of my post said Covid originated in Pattaya ?

Pattaya is a city, not a province.  Therefore, Chonburi (the province that Pattaya is located in) has that responsibility of protecting provincial borders, not Pattaya...so what @sandyf said in his last sentence is true, even though I disagree with his/her view that Pattaya acted irresponsibly, if that's what was meant by "only Pattaya did nothing"

Edited June 14, 2021 by WaveHunter

[BestB]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Pattaya is a city, not a province.  Therefore, Chonburi (the province that Pattaya is located in) has that responsibility of protecting provincial borders, not Pattaya...so what @sandyf said in his last sentence is true, even though I disagree with his/her view that Pattaya acted irresponsibly, if that's what was meant by "only Pattaya did nothing"

Pattaya as a city has full power and used it last lockdown, You could not even get in from the darkside or north of Jomtien unless you had a special pass.

[WaveHunter]

49 minutes ago, BestB said:

Pattaya as a city has full power and used it last lockdown, You could not even get in from the darkside or north of Jomtien unless you had a special pass.

The comment pertained to provincial borders, not city borders.

[BestB]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

The comment pertained to provincial borders, not city borders.

we were discussing Pattaya, no different to provinces having full control over its borders.

 

Burriram was always the first to close its borders and be very strict.

 

At one point Raying closed itself from memory for 1 weeks. so to your original comment, he was not correct stating Pattaya city did not and does not have control

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, BestB said:

Flash news it is up to provincial authorities to control its borders and has been said so and put into practice hence some provinces require 14 days lock up, others want to see test and some simply closed. 
 

also do tell which part of my post said Covid originated in Pattaya ?

How about this bit of garbage, trying to blame everything on Pattaya rather than stick to the facts.

 

"If Pattaya was not so money hungry and closed its doors on Songkran, then it would not have been deep red zone for 2 months, but for the sake of filling hotel rooms for 1 weekend, kept its doors open resulting in being deep red for 2 months"

 

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Pattaya is a city, not a province.  Therefore, Chonburi (the province that Pattaya is located in) has that responsibility of protecting provincial borders, not Pattaya...so what @sandyf said in his last sentence is true, even though I disagree with his/her view that Pattaya acted irresponsibly, if that's what was meant by "only Pattaya did nothing"

"only Pattaya did nothing"

That was a quote from the posters previous post, not from me.

I was in Pattaya New Year's Eve, watched the fireworks in other parts of the province from the balcony.

Beach about 10pm

[WaveHunter]

55 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"only Pattaya did nothing"

That was a quote from the posters previous post, not from me.

I was in Pattaya New Year's Eve, watched the fireworks in other parts of the province from the balcony.

Beach about 10pm

Sorry about that; it was unclear to me in your post whether you meant that was your view or you were referring to someone else's view.

[BestB]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

How about this bit of garbage, trying to blame everything on Pattaya rather than stick to the facts.

 

"If Pattaya was not so money hungry and closed its doors on Songkran, then it would not have been deep red zone for 2 months, but for the sake of filling hotel rooms for 1 weekend, kept its doors open resulting in being deep red for 2 months"

 

Facts are Pattaya city hall is in full control. How about knowing facts before spouting nonsense?

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

Facts are Pattaya city hall is in full control. How about knowing facts before spouting nonsense?

Feel free to believe it was Pattaya City Hall that allowed people to travel across the border to the Flintstones Pub where it all kicked off.

Time you realised Chonburi infections are not Pattaya infections, and closing the roads into Pattaya would have done little to prevent the outbreaks that took place in Chonburi.

[BestB]

55 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Feel free to believe it was Pattaya City Hall that allowed people to travel across the border to the Flintstones Pub where it all kicked off.

Time you realised Chonburi infections are not Pattaya infections, and closing the roads into Pattaya would have done little to prevent the outbreaks that took place in Chonburi.

Or can always insist on nonsense and deflections, always works well

[spidermike007]

On 6/12/2021 at 3:39 PM, marin said:

You have to be kidding me. 3,000 people a day being infected with Covid 19 most right here in BKK. Yes lets open things up so it can spread more and faster. The country is trying to reopen, sadly without enough access to vaccines, why make it worse?

Because people have to survive. Only those who are wealthy, have cushy pensions, or are very insensitive cannot see that.

 

There has to be a balance between crushing, punitive, sadistic regulations, and safety protocols. At this rate, the majority of those businesses will never reopen. Why? They will have lost it all. Was it worth it? We never closed before during flu season. And the nation has not closed its highways, even though over 300 people a day die on them. 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Because people have to survive. Only those who are wealthy, have cushy pensions, or are very insensitive cannot see that.

 

There has to be a balance between crushing, punitive, sadistic regulations, and safety protocols. At this rate, the majority of those businesses will never reopen. Why? They will have lost it all. Was it worth it? We never closed before during flu season. And the nation has not closed its highways, even though over 300 people a day die on them. 

 

Which flu season killed 3.8 million people recently ???

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Because people have to survive. Only those who are wealthy, have cushy pensions, or are very insensitive cannot see that.

 

There has to be a balance between crushing, punitive, sadistic regulations, and safety protocols. At this rate, the majority of those businesses will never reopen. Why? They will have lost it all. Was it worth it? We never closed before during flu season. And the nation has not closed its highways, even though over 300 people a day die on them. 

I agree with that view.  The answer is not black & white.  You can't ignore the dire economic consequences of this pandemic and only focus on the health consequences. There must be a more balanced approach.

 

I think the economic devastation of this pandemic will be far more significant than many people realize especially for a country like Thailand where tourism is its' lifeblood.

Edited June 16, 2021 by WaveHunter

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree with that view.  The answer is not black & white.  You can't ignore the dire economic consequences of this pandemic and only focus on the health consequences. There must be a more balanced approach.

 

I think the economic devastation of this pandemic will be far more significant than many people realize especially for a country like Thailand where tourism is its' lifeblood.

Spot on. I am predicting an economic drop far worse than the 1997 crash. The effects will likely be felt for years to come, and I do not think tourism will recover to 10 million visitors within 5 years. The next two years are a write off. 

 

Which means economic sabotage of sadistic proportions. 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

At this rate, the majority of those businesses will never reopen. Why

Because there are no tourists and there is a pandemic going on.

You probably never saw one before in your life, like most of us......

 

 

[Guderian]

17 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

I agree with that view.  The answer is not black & white.  You can't ignore the dire economic consequences of this pandemic and only focus on the health consequences. There must be a more balanced approach.

 

I think the economic devastation of this pandemic will be far more significant than many people realize especially for a country like Thailand where tourism is its' lifeblood.

 

I don't dispute that there is devastation, but Thailand seems to think that it's somehow alone in its predicament of depending on foreign tourism for between 10% and 155 of its GDP pre-pandemic. The fact is that many small countries, in the Caribbean for example, were FAR more dependent on tourism than Thailand, with some places depending on it for 50% of their GDP. This is why it makes no sense to me to risk the 80% to 85% of the economy that has no reliance on foreign tourism purely for the benefit of the 10% to 15% that does. If the Indian or some other nasty variant sweeps through Thailand after it reopens to foreign tourists before sufficient numbers of people are fully protected, as seems to be the latest plan from the PM (Thailand to fully reopen within 120 days), then it won't only be  the tourist areas that will suffer, the entire country may have to go into an Indian-style full lockdown for months. Have a look at the 2018 numbers for international tourism revenue as a % of GDP by country in this link:

 

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/international_tourism_revenue_to_GDP/

[Saddic]

During the first lockdown(for pools), my condo drained the pool... it took them over 1-2 months to get the <deleted>*king thing working again... seems when you drain the pool, the piping cracks&leaks develop and filth grows, from no maint over a 2-3 month period...

 

This time they keep the pool running, but fired the pool maint company (to save money)...  The building handyman, did the vacuum thing, but did nothing about chemicals, etc...  The green swamp is what we were greeted with upon the pool opening...  wonder how long before they have to rehire a professional to get the thing working again...

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, Guderian said:

 

I don't dispute that there is devastation, but Thailand seems to think that it's somehow alone in its predicament of depending on foreign tourism for between 10% and 155 of its GDP pre-pandemic. The fact is that many small countries, in the Caribbean for example, were FAR more dependent on tourism than Thailand, with some places depending on it for 50% of their GDP. This is why it makes no sense to me to risk the 80% to 85% of the economy that has no reliance on foreign tourism purely for the benefit of the 10% to 15% that does. If the Indian or some other nasty variant sweeps through Thailand after it reopens to foreign tourists before sufficient numbers of people are fully protected, as seems to be the latest plan from the PM (Thailand to fully reopen within 120 days), then it won't only be  the tourist areas that will suffer, the entire country may have to go into an Indian-style full lockdown for months. Have a look at the 2018 numbers for international tourism revenue as a % of GDP by country in this link:

 

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/international_tourism_revenue_to_GDP/

Actually the percent of GDP from tourism in Thailand before the pandemic was over 20% which is pretty huge IMO. 

 

As much as I resent the vaccination rollout scheme for us foreigners, the strategy for opening Thailand to tourism appear to be well thought out.

 

It includes doing it in stages, confining it to areas where at least 70% of the population has been vaccinated, and also having very strategic safeguards in place to limit travel outside of designated areas, and tactical plans in place should anything go wrong.

 

I think it is a balanced plan that addresses the urgent economic situation while still keeping things safe as far as public health goes.  Simply put, I don;t think the country can survive financially with another year that's similar to the last one. 

 

I think the Phuket experiment is going to be very telling and will give us all a good idea if this will succeed or not.  I hope it does!

Edited June 17, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Guderian]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Actually the percent of GDP from tourism in Thailand before the pandemic was over 20%

 

Yes, but that 20% includes domestic tourism, which in itself is also pretty huge. Foreign tourists contributed a bit less than 13% of GDP in 2018, which agrees with the numbers I've read many times in different sources of something between 10% and 15%.

 

The point I'm making is that, if your income was $100 a year before the pandemic, but it's only $85 today, would you personally take a serious risk with a large chunk of your $85 just to try and claw back some of the $15? A small, calculated risk perhaps, but throwing the doors open to all and sundry in four months time when only a fraction of the population will have been fully vaccinated doesn't make any financial or economic sense, and certainly no social or medical sense.

[WaveHunter]

30 minutes ago, Guderian said:

 

Yes, but that 20% includes domestic tourism, which in itself is also pretty huge. Foreign tourists contributed a bit less than 13% of GDP in 2018, which agrees with the numbers I've read many times in different sources of something between 10% and 15%.

 

The point I'm making is that, if your income was $100 a year before the pandemic, but it's only $85 today, would you personally take a serious risk with a large chunk of your $85 just to try and claw back some of the $15? A small, calculated risk perhaps, but throwing the doors open to all and sundry in four months time when only a fraction of the population will have been fully vaccinated doesn't make any financial or economic sense, and certainly no social or medical sense.

The problem with that logic is that many Thai-owned businesses were not only shut down for lack of tourism but due to the severe restrictions imposed.  So, the overall effect of both of these things has been devastating not only to the business owners, but also their employees, and other business involved in their supply chain, in a way that has virtually shut down the whole economy.

 

Survival depends on a strategy that addresses BOTH the economy and public health in an equal and balanced way, not just one or the other.

 

The idea that the government is "throwing the doors open to tourism" is not correct.  In fact, it is a very delicate balancing act; a balancing act that they got very wrong with the initial attempts like the special tourist visa (STV) scheme, for instance.  This latest plan seems much more thought out.

 

Reaching "herd immunity thresholds" for those specific areas that are planned to reopen seems to be a very important part of the reopening plan.

 

There's no question it will still be a risky move, but like I said before, the official plan has a number of well thought out strategies and tactics to deal with issues that may come up.

 

Bottom line, the economic consequences of not starting to open up can be just as severe as the public health consequences that might occur with the opening up scheme.  Those risks need to BOTH be considered and approached in a balanced way, and it seems to me that is exactly what Thai officials are doing with this new plan.

 

I mean, this virus is never going to be completely eradicated.  It's here to stay forever, just like the flu virus.  The best we can hope for is that herd immunity be reached as quickly as possible, and that will keep the virus in check, while at the same time, trying to return economic vitality.  That's something that's not just limited to Thailand but every country in the world right now.

Edited June 17, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Guderian]

17 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

The problem with that logic is that many Thai-owned businesses were not only shut down for lack of tourism but due to the severe restrictions imposed.  So, the overall effect of both of these things has been devastating not only to the business owners, but also their employees, and other business involved in their supply chain, in a way that has virtually shut down the whole economy.

 

Thank you, you've just made my point for me! If things are so catastrophic now, when there's no lockdown or curfew in force and really only some restrictions on entertainment venues and restaurants, how do you think things are going to be if Thailand gets a serious outbreak of the Delta variant, with 50,000 new cases a day and several thousand deaths? They will literally shut down almost everything beyond food and drink supplies to shops and pharnacies, as happened in many European countries. What we are 'suffering' now is really nothing at all compared to what might still be to come unless the government keeps its guard up, which it doesn't seem to be willing to do, so in the absence of a credible vaccination programme they might well be marching straight towards a self-made disaster.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

 

Thank you, you've just made my point for me! If things are so catastrophic now, when there's no lockdown or curfew in force and really only some restrictions on entertainment venues and restaurants, how do you think things are going to be if Thailand gets a serious outbreak of the Delta variant, with 50,000 new cases a day and several thousand deaths? They will literally shut down almost everything beyond food and drink supplies to shops and pharnacies, as happened in many European countries. What we are 'suffering' now is really nothing at all compared to what might still be to come unless the government keeps its guard up, which it doesn't seem to be willing to do, so in the absence of a credible vaccination programme they might well be marching straight towards a self-made disaster.

Nobody would argue with you that Thailand is way behind the curve compared with many other countries in the vaccine rollout as the attached chart of the percentage of population vaccinated shows.

 

However, the opening strategy in Thailand is based on opening various geographic regions as those regions reach the herd immunity threshold of 70% vaccinated, and having very tight control on movement into and out of those regions. 

 

I'm not saying there are not heavy risks with such a plan, but there are equally heavy risks in keeping the economy shut down much longer. 

 

The devastating effect of a continued shut down to the economy in a country like Thailand is far more dire than many people realize I think.  It can not be ignored any longer.  It MUST be addressed ASAP.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by WaveHunter

[Guderian]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

heavy risks in keeping the foreign tourism part of the economy shut down much longer. 

 

Sorry but I had to adjust your comment a little as much of the 85% to 90% of the economy that doesn't reply on foreign tourism is ticking along quite nicely. Since that part of the economy has now been shut down for over 15 months, what exactly are the heavy risks to it that mean it must be opened up without any semblance of an adequate vaccination campaign having been carried out? That part of the economy is already stuffed, the only heavy risks that I can see are all on the largest part of the economy which might end up almost completely shut down if this goes completely pear-shaped.

 

In Phuket, for example, they're proudly boasting that they've already vaccinated 62% of the local population, with just one shot of the most ineffective of all the vaccines on the market. Registrations for local retired expats to book a vaccine appointment only opened 2 days ago, so Buddha only knows when they might get it. And then there's the fact that, like Pattaya, the much-vaunted "local population" consists almost entirely of Thai people registered as living there (I say almost, because some of the expat business owners have also been vaccinated in Phuket, apparently). And, just like in Pattaya, the large foreign population that's being ignored in the vaccination programme doesn't only consist of retired expats, there are many foreign migrant workers there who are not being offered any protection. This is not a well-planned scheme to slowly and carefully reopen certain parts of the country while fully protecting all of those living there, it's a very bad joke.