Elderly expats given lifeline regarding mandatory insurance requirement for Non-Immigrant “O-A” visas

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed several off topic posts meant to deflect the topic and several that were baiting and bickering.

Just a reminder this is the forum for visas, extensions and etc not the news forum.

From now on posts will be removed without a further notice of the removals.

[patman30]

sounds like this could lead to 3 million baht deposit in bank required
when ALL insurance companies refuse you.

[MadMac]

3 minutes ago, patman30 said:

sounds like this could lead to 3 million baht deposit in bank required
when ALL insurance companies refuse you.

 

 

If they do it they double as we've seen in the past. That would make it 1.6 million THB per person. Grandfathered, so we continue with 200 or 800k, whatever. 

[kynikoi]

This isn't a solution but more confusion.

 

I love it they actually acknowledge that it's impossible to get insurance 70+ ...but require it anyway. Insane.

[Caspersfriend]

1 hour ago, MadMac said:

For retirement you need to show 800k everytime you apply for extension (yearly) and it cannot drop below 400k in between. That is the current status, may be grandfathered if they double it.

 

Equally [un]well they may not grandfather it. As they didn't when the 800K/400K rule was introduced.

 

The, now more difficult to justify, 65K/mth income law at least allowed you to spend the full 65K each month. With the 800K/400K rule, you can spend 400K over 6mths but only if you have the income to replace it for the 800K period. The 'type O' retirement extension option has been mentioned in previous posts as the better option available. It is however a reverse 'soft loan' to the bank you are with. As with Thai bank 'credit cards' here, it's not credit when you have to deposit more with the bank than you can withdraw on 'credit'. 

[patman30]

16 minutes ago, MadMac said:

If they do it they double as we've seen in the past. That would make it 1.6 million THB per person. Grandfathered, so we continue with 200 or 800k, whatever. 

you hope,

if insurance companies start blanket refusing people for whaever reason due to any circumstances in future
you may be expected to have funds to cover living expenses and medical expenses should they arise
right now they have put the medical expenses at 3 million covered by insurance
those who cannot get insurance may in future be expected to show 800k PLUS 3 million
but TIT
they could say all this is a big misunderstanding by this time tomorrow????‍♂️

Edited June 16, 2021 by patman30

[riclag]

Non O based on marriage just dodged another Thai bullet ,so to speak !

 

I don't have insurance ! I have money that accumulated over the years and set a side just for medical,luxury items and fun times !

[metisdead]

A post with a link to Bangkok Post has been removed:

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.
 

[sambum]

"must submit additional documents with their O-A application such as the letter of refusal, plus securities, deposits and other health insurance not less than 3 million baht.

 

Lifeline?

[hereforgood]

8 hours ago, Galong said:

What if you have Thai Social Security, which I have for life as I've exceeded the 15 year pay-in threshold.  I would assume, maybe falsely, that that counts as legitimate healthcare coverage. 

BTW, I'm still working, but I'll likely apply for a Non-O next year.

 

I also am hoping this to be  the case

[crazykopite]

12 hours ago, tonray said:

Good Question...and why do they continue to punish OA Visa holders and leave O Visa holders unscathed ? Extensions now are absurd...because my OA obtained in 2017 needs insurance(s) and the guy in the booth next to me does not , all other requirements being equal ? 

Surely you could just switch to an O visa or extension of stay as they call it .

[Pib]

Bangkok Post has posted a "corrected/updated" 16 June article....corrected/updated as of 5:32pm. 

 

The corrected/updated article says the 100K USD insurance only applies  to the OA visa and the paper apologizes for the error which earlier incorrectly stated it applied to all long term visas.   It does "not" apply to marriage, business, educational, media, and other visas; it applies only the OA visa according to the updated article.

 

Now I assume when they say OA visas they are also talking OA extensions of stay.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Pib

[tonray]

4 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Surely you could just switch to an O visa or extension of stay as they call it .

How do you propose to switch when borders have been closed for more than 1 year ? Extension of stay has extra insurance requirements over O visa still

Edited June 16, 2021 by tonray

[Galong]

I was told by my accountant that a Covid supplement is available for those of us who have Thai Social Security as their heathcare for around 400 - 500 baht!  She said it's even available at banks.  So, how does the price rocket from that to an absure 3,000,000 Baht's worth of coverage? Do foreigners infect more locals [rhetorical question]?  Don't vaccines mean anything?  Don't vaccine from other countries where potential retirees have had the best vaccines available mean anything [rhetorical question again]?  I hope they think this through a bit more. They're going to potentially lose massively. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Galong
misspelling

[crazykopite]

My friend who is on an O A visa tells me when he applies for it he just shows his U.K. bank statements proving that he has sufficient income surely in today’s world governments should accept overseas bank statements . I could get my O visa renewal tomorrow but who’s to say that next week I might be in need to use it should I have an accident and being over 70 nobody wants to insure me if this was to happen I would then be refused next years visa because I had to reduce my 800k in the first 90 days after receiving my new extension the whole thing is an absolute farce . If there not careful those of us who contribute good money into the economy will say enough is enough and move on to more welcoming places , once the borders are open I am seriously considering relocating to Malaysia where I can get a ten year visa , import a tax free car    and live on a tax free island such as Langkawi and get a reputable agent to rent out my beach front property here in Thailand or failing that just spend 30 or 60 days in each country  

[ThaiFelix]

4 hours ago, MadMac said:

 

If you have the money, go for the retirement route, it is so much easier. No interview, no waiting, no bankbook BS, just show them you have it and you get the stamp the same day.

Thanks but that doesnt answer my question.....have you quoted the right post?

 

[kennw]

13 hours ago, doctormann said:

It's all a bit illogical, especially as extending for marriage from an O-A does not require the insurance.  For those of us who got our original O-A years ago - 2004 in my case - the insurance for retirement extensions has, effectively, been applied retroactively.  Very unfair in my view but their rules so we have to comply as best we can.

I agree with your point but unfortunately your argument that it has been applied retroactively is not correct because the extension is a yearly extension. IE it is not a "look back"

Those who drafted the law have been careful to avoid any legality to retroactivity. That means any thing related to the extension renewal can be changed at their whim. This would include the money aspects. But most countries include the same legal provisions so that they can achieve anything they want

[from the home of CC]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Amazing there are still some long term stayers willing to put up with all the requirements for some visa.

yep, a whole 3 hrs and 2k baht a year - oh the horrors lol

[mlmcleod]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s Cabinet on Tuesday approved new rules that will help people aged over 70 purchase health insurance as part of the application for a Non-Immigrant “O-A” visa.

I do not need this kind of help!  The Immigration department has finally decided that retirement is not in the cards for expats!  After 70 you can pay 200,000 baht a year for insurance or leave!  In the past I was not able to buy Thai health insurance at any price.  I suspect that this is just going to be another gouging of the expats.  What ever happened to grandfathering in of existing expats as was always the case in the past.  I wonder if they are going to rescind the airport fee that they currently charge to more than cover unpaid expat hospital bills?

[madisongy]

I had an OA back in 2018 that's since expired when I moved back to US to care for parents.  No extra insurance reqd at that time.  Loved the idea of getting another one, but absolutely despised the thought of paying more for an inferior Thai insurance policy, in addition to my Aetna Worldwide policy.   As Ubonjoe alludes, the dust had not NEARLY settled on this whole issue, but for me, it looks like movement in the correct direction for a future reapplication.   

Side benefit...........would make out very well selling our two US homes, and could live in our Bkk condo where the value in the dumper.   Maybe that value will come back at some point too.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

thanks ubonjoe for the tourist visa status update, as thai embassy london website check.

though website also states can potentially extend the 60 day initial period by application in Bangkok.

my ref. to “ country of application” meant to indicate needing to apply ( as for all TV) outside thailand .......but not clear ! I remember getting the (newish) six month TV in Rome with my Italian Residency back in Dec 2017..... those normal,days long gone now and yes that visa type long since withdrawn .......

[Mike k]

My first retirement visa was in 2017 I was not asked about insurance last November when I renewed it I still wasn't asked for insurance. I'm 64 now and I have thai insurance through Bangkok Bank. When I turn 70 if I can't get insurance I will have to return to the US because I don't think Medicare will pay for overseas medical. Correct me if I am wrong 

[Mike k]

9 hours ago, MadMac said:

 

If you have the money, go for the retirement route, it is so much easier. No interview, no waiting, no bankbook BS, just show them you have it and you get the stamp the same day.

The retirement visa still requires the 800000 baht bank account proven with a yearly statement from the bank plus a statement on the day you renew your visa plus copies of your bank book 

[madisongy]

1 hour ago, Mike k said:

My first retirement visa was in 2017 I was not asked about insurance last November when I renewed it I still wasn't asked for insurance. I'm 64 now and I have thai insurance through Bangkok Bank. When I turn 70 if I can't get insurance I will have to return to the US because I don't think Medicare will pay for overseas medical. Correct me if I am wrong 

I'd be interested if you find anything out on this.   So if Medicare won't pay, what about Medicare supplement?   I guess I'll know all this by end of the year as I'm on Medicare and some sort of supplement as of Feb 2022.   Good questions to ask when I'm signing up.

[hereforgood]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

Bangkok Post has posted a "corrected/updated" 16 June article....corrected/updated as of 5:32pm. 

 

The corrected/updated article says the 100K USD insurance only applies  to the OA visa and the paper apologizes for the error which earlier incorrectly stated it applied to all long term visas.   It does "not" apply to marriage, business, educational, media, and other visas; it applies only the OA visa according to the updated article.

 

Now I assume when they say OA visas they are also talking OA extensions of stay.

 

 

So those holding a Non Imm O Retirement and extensions of that are not effected ?

Edited June 16, 2021 by hereforgood

[Searat7]

3 hours ago, madisongy said:

I'd be interested if you find anything out on this.   So if Medicare won't pay, what about Medicare supplement?   I guess I'll know all this by end of the year as I'm on Medicare and some sort of supplement as of Feb 2022.   Good questions to ask when I'm signing up.

The Medicare supplement plan will only cover visits/procedures approved by Medicare so you will have zero coverage outside the USA. Some think Medicare is cheap too but this is not the case if you have a really good income as payments are indexed to your income. What really galls me is that the Thai health insurance has to be effective for the length of my O-A visa so I will be paying for 5-6 months extra a year as I spend half of the year in USA.  I have used O-A visa since 2006 so it is my understanding I could not arrive in Thailand visa exempt and apply for a type O visa based on retirement after arrival in Thailand.

[Mutt Daeng]

53 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

<Snip>

  I have used O-A visa since 2006 so it is my understanding I could not arrive in Thailand visa exempt and apply for a type O visa based on retirement after arrival in Thailand.

</Snip>

Your understanding is not correct.

You can enter V/E then apply for a 90 Day Non-O based on retirement and then towards the end of the 90 days you can apply for a one year extension based on retirement, as long as you meet the financial criteria.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Mutt Daeng

[UKresonant]

50 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

The Medicare supplement plan will only cover visits/procedures approved by Medicare so you will have zero coverage outside the USA. Some think Medicare is cheap too but this is not the case if you have a really good income as payments are indexed to your income. What really galls me is that the Thai health insurance has to be effective for the length of my O-A visa so I will be paying for 5-6 months extra a year as I spend half of the year in USA.  I have used O-A visa since 2006 so it is my understanding I could not arrive in Thailand visa exempt and apply for a type O visa based on retirement after arrival in Thailand.

If you check the insurance T&Cs has it not a clause saying you have to be in Thailand for 6months out of 12? That may leave a narrow window of actual cover?

[doctormann]

10 hours ago, kennw said:

I agree with your point but unfortunately your argument that it has been applied retroactively is not correct because the extension is a yearly extension. IE it is not a "look back"

Those who drafted the law have been careful to avoid any legality to retroactivity. That means any thing related to the extension renewal can be changed at their whim. This would include the money aspects. But most countries include the same legal provisions so that they can achieve anything they want

That's why i used the word ' effectively'.

 

When I obtained my O-A, back in 2004, it was the 'gold standard' for those wishing to retire in Thailand and had some advantages over the non-O visa.  The then Thai government was actively encouraging  those over 50 years of age to  apply for this visa.  The expectation was that the permission to stay deriving from this visa could be renewed annually indefinitely.  It was even stated, at that time, that, after three consecutive extensions, the holder would be able to apply for PR.  They were not entirely honest about that. failing to mention that working was not allowed on an O-A and, therefore, the tax requirements could not be met.  Sure, you could apply but had zero chance of being accepted!

 

That aside, yes, we have been able to extend annually but this has become more difficult - and not helped by certain Embassies withdrawing their income certification services.  The insurance requirement seems like nothing less than a money grab and the new, pending, regulations have only made this more so.  This was supposed to be a 'lifeline' to help elderly ex-pats to remain here in Thailand but I don't see that it helps at all.  'Lifeline' - more like a millstone! 

 

Whatever makes them think that getting insurance at age 70+ is any easier outside of Thailand than it is in country?  Oh, I forgot, if you can show that insurance has been refused, we will generously allow you to deposit 3 million Baht in a Thai bank account in lieu!  I can't see many ex-pats falling for that one.

[flexomike]

15 hours ago, Tonypandy said:

Do OA visa holders have to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account? 

If you are on a Visa no, but if you are on an extension of that visa then you have to have the financials plus the insurance