Expats living in Thailand high rise condos in the wake of the Florida disaster

[richard_smith237]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:38 PM, josthomz said:

If we spent our days worrying about the things that can go wrong. We wouldn't be able to live. 

 

The chances of dying in a building collapse, I reckon would be on par with those of dying on a plane accident. 

 

I just couldn't care less, if it happened to me, well bad luck. Hope you all keep great memories of me 555

 

When you write ‘we’... do you mean all of us, humanity ???

 

Because IF humanity doesn’t need to ‘worry about the things that can go wrong’ YOU the individual pay the price in almost every single facet of your life, from food safety, road safety, transport safety, medical safety, electrical safety and of coursed, building safety and regulation.... 

 

The reasons regulations are in place is because ‘we’ humanity worry about them and act when things are not right. 

 

The reasons YOU the individual couldn’t care less, is because before you and those around you, there were others who did care and still do care, they cared/care a lot, they cared to ensure that others are doing their jobs, not taking short cuts, they care to ensure that laws are in place which protect us all.

 

So... while you are thinking... I just couldn’t care less and ‘the chances are minimal' etc... consider a thanking those who ‘do care’ for they have made the world safer for the apathetic who think they don’t need to care !!!!! 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

I’ve lived in high floor buildings in Bangkok (30+)... I’ve stayed in many high floor hotels.... 

 

Building collapse becomes an increasing risk, particularly in places such as Bangkok where there are very high buildings and poor accountability - Will inspections of buildings exist, if an inspector condemns a high-rise will the owners accept the advice or will ‘money’ rule ?

 

 

But, more than the concern for the risk of building collapse is the risk of fire - Do the water sprinklers and alarms work ?

 

This is something I no longer have to worry about for my family now that we live in a house. 

 

Of course, this is not a concern that destroys our life or any hotel stay etc... but it is definitely a factor in my decision making, and its the same when choosing an airline, a car etc... 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:08 PM, digbeth said:

This is a quite known case in Bangkok, a few years back, the floors collapsed and they had to support it with cables until it could be fixed 

That is an example of a condo building that did not collapse, yes?

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:16 PM, LomSak27 said:

 

Thankfully that is one of the few in Thailand. Yep you would think more given the lack of regulations,

Which "lack of regulations"?   

 

What area of condominium building regulations, specifically, are "lacking in Thailand"?

[Airalee]

29 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

These were $500K to $1MM beach-front properties. The owners absolutely should have been able to fund or get loans to fund the repairs.  They also had time to sell (I wonder how many did) if there were not able to get funding. 

 

It is a tragedy, fortunately it did not happen in the winter... 

I read that the special assessment for repairs was going to be about $115k per unit.  Even thought the (bubble?) value was currently between $500k to $1mm, a quick check of property records shows that many units sold for well under $200k back in the early 2000s and even under $100k in the 90s so there is a distinct possibility that the owners had neither the funds nor the ability to borrow to shoulder an additional $115k.  How many people from those days are still holding their units is an unknown but I wouldn’t be surprised that there would be enough of them to vote “no” on a special assessment that is more than half (or even more than the total) price that they originally paid.  An unfortunate situation for all involved.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, josthomz said:

 

I agree with 75% of what you’ve written. 
 

My post was never against safety regulations. I am in favor of them, and they undoubtedly have made the work safer. 
 

But my job is not to write safety regulations, or enforce them, or check that things are up to regulations. It never has been, and it will be the same for the remaining 99% of TVF posters… 

 

So what I said originally I still believe it,  don’t waste valuable life time thinking / worrying that your building may collapse on you, don’t waste valuable life thinking worrying that the meat you bought at the supermarket may give you some amoebas, don’t waste valuable life thinking next time you go on a trip you may have an accident. 
 

Either of those do happen from time to time, but there’s people working to make everything safer. And if at some point it does happen to you, well bad luck. But you can’t always live worried about something you can’t even control. 

 

Yep... that is a fair point....  We (the individual) cannot spend our time worrying that the worst could happen - Life would be pretty depressing if we did.

 

But, we can’t be ignorant to the risks either (I’m not suggesting you have suggested we are). We make choices which influence our risk, either by voting, protesting, petitions, monetary choices etc... For example, the consumer has forced great changes in improvements to vehicular safety.

 

At the same time, corruption and cost cutting has led to great failures (think Grenfell) and no country is immune not corruption and cost cutting, some just hide it better. 

 

 

If one of the buildings in Bangkok which on the basis of investigation is no longer safely habitable, do we trust that when the time comes owners will move people out ? will people be able to afford somewhere else, will the government assist ? Or... is the consequence of condemning building too difficult to deal with and the issue will be brushed under the carpet until tragedy ??? will inspectors be bribed off by building owners ? etc etc.

 

 

A major building fire / building collapse of a large building is a tragedy which is waiting to happen in a city in Thailand.

 

With Thailands tolerance of corruption and love of apathy a tragedy is simply a matter of time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/26/2021 at 2:12 AM, Jingthing said:

Interesting.

But a case of total almost instant collapse as in Florida, I'm not aware of hearing about such incidents before. As has been mentioned on the news, it looked like an intentional demolition. 

All I heard was that the owners apparently ignored an inspectors report that the waterproofing on the pool patio needed replacing because it would cost a lot.

No doubt a reason will be given eventually. Going to be a problem if concrete cancer is becoming a problem. High rise concrete structures haven't been around very long, but there are a lot of them now.

 

Imagine the chaos if it was found that concrete buildings became dangerous after 70 or 80 years!

 

https://freyssinet.co.uk/concrete-cancer-can-prevented-concrete-repairs/

This is known as concrete cancer, the term used to refer to the rusting of steel reinforcements that are contained within a concrete slab.

[digbeth]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That is an example of a condo building that did not collapse, yes?

still standing or not, when floors and ceilings in your building is breaking clean like this, will you still trust in Thai engineering to find a fix that will last? 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

On 6/25/2021 at 9:16 PM, LomSak27 said:

 

Thankfully that is one of the few in Thailand. Yep you would think more given the lack of regulations,

Which "lack of regulations"?   

 

What area of condominium building regulations, specifically, are "lacking in Thailand"?

 

I think, as with many of the regulations in Thailand. The regulations themselves are absolutely fine. 

 

It is the enforcement of those regulations, inherent corruption and lack of accountability which in ‘some’ cases may lead to regulations not being fully adhered to or worst case being completely ignored....  

 

I think that is the greater concern rather than lack of regulations themselves. 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/25/2021 at 9:34 PM, tomazbodner said:

In Thailand ... low rises have no such need and anyone can do whatever they wish, including adding floors on top,

Nonsense.   The Korat example that you quoted collapsed for that very reason, permission for adding extra floors was not applied for and that is a requirement.  Anyone cannot do anything that they want!

[LomSak27]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What area of condominium building regulations, specifically, are "lacking in Thailand"?

 

Enforcement

In the Khon Kaen collapse they "illegally added water tanks on the roof to supply the massage parlors."

In the famous Royal Plaza Khorat collapse they built three additional floors. In that one hard to say enforcement although technically correct. More like no one cared to look into expansion plans too much.

 

After the fact it's all fine to piously claim there were regulations. Truth is they were easily ignored and no one cares much about it until shifting blame after a disaster. 

 

[Jingthing]

53 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

These were $500K to $1MM beach-front properties. The owners absolutely should have been able to fund or get loans to fund the repairs.  They also had time to sell (I wonder how many did) if there were not able to get funding. 

 

It is a tragedy, fortunately it did not happen in the winter... 

Many of the older residents bought in much much much lower.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:18 AM, DFPhuket said:

In 2016, the Jungceylon mall in Patong, Phuket was in the news because of cracked structural pillars in the basement carpark. Sections of the mall and carpark were closed for several weeks. Surprisingly, we never heard what the problems were. 

You expect to hear what the issues are with every building in Thailand that undergoes serious repairs?   Does that happen anywhere in the world? 

 

This mall didn't collapse, pillars were repaired and, in that context, it still operates normally today.

[Jingthing]

Here's a prediction for the US not really for Thailand. New laws will be passed for building inspections. The safety engineering sector will boom. Many massive assessments will happen and the number of condemned buildings will spike. From neglect to possibly overkill. Kind of like what happened after 911 with security theater.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/26/2021 at 3:32 PM, Yellowtail said:

As a tax-paying American citizen, if the US government is going to be inspecting building in the US as a result of this disaster, I think it only fair that they come to Thailand and inspect any and all buildings where taxpaying US expats are living! I bet they've already inspected the consulate and embassy buildings to make sure THEY are safe.

 

Fair is fair!!!!! 

 

Who's with me?????

Not many, probably, but those that are with you will, clearly, be under the misguided impression that US building inspectors (responsible for overseeing the construction/maintenance of the Florida building that did collapse) have some jurisdiction in Thailand.

 

What a great idea, bring in engineers from a country where they have just seen the best part of 200 people killed in a US building collapse to oversee constructions in Thailand that have not seen anything like that happen in many decades. 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 6/27/2021 at 2:08 PM, Rampant Rabbit said:

No I hadnt, but when Im in our Bangkok condo I can feel  the building sway  occassionaly, its quite noticeable

They're designed to do that.

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, SW Happy said:

Now you know why Farangs can only but Condos and not houses.

You obviously don't know that foreigners can own houses in Thailand,

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, kokesaat said:

.....do you run to the nearest elevator in your nightie?.......

Maybe you should stop wearing a nightie?!

[Liverpool Lou]

45 minutes ago, digbeth said:

59 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That is an example of a condo building that did not collapse, yes?

still standing or not, when floors and ceilings in your building is breaking clean like this, will you still trust in Thai engineering to find a fix that will last? 

Why not, this was an example of a fix that has lasted and, therefore, was successful, wasn't it?

[Liverpool Lou]

37 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

56 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

What area of condominium building regulations, specifically, are "lacking in Thailand"?

 

Enforcement

Exactly, there were, and still are, the necessary regulations.   The regulations are not lacking.

[LomSak27]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Exactly, there were, and still are, the necessary regulations.   The regulations are not lacking.

 

Your  trying to find something, anything, to deny the reality of their lack of real enforced regulations. The books are full of regs, it means nothing. If it's good for you make it your friend, just don't expect others to agree.

[jomtienisgood]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Many of the older residents bought in much much much lower.

Personally I would buy as high as possible, in case of collapse I would end up on top and not underneath 20+ floors... 

[RJRS1301]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:22 AM, worgeordie said:

I don't think we need to go there, enough worries with the Covid,

in Bangkok just as likely a condo to sink ,as fall down,the biggest

danger here are the roads.

regards worgeordie

 

High-rise falling into another  high-rise onto the BTS and expressways, perhaps some chaos caused?

 

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Personally I would buy as high as possible, in case of collapse I would end up on top and not underneath 20+ floors... 

Still dead, however found sooner for cremation

[Liverpool Lou]

59 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Exactly, there were, and still are, the necessary regulations.   The regulations are not lacking.

 

Your  trying to find something, anything, to deny the reality of their lack of real enforced regulations. The books are full of regs, it means nothing. If it's good for you make it your friend, just don't expect others to agree.

No, you're wrong, I'm not denying that enforcement isn't always applied (same as in the US, UK or Europe, for example).

 

The comments that I responded to were related only to the claimed lack of regulations, that's all, and that claim is a fallacy.   You may want to (wrongly) interpret my comments as being about enforcement and "if that's good for you, make it your friend" [sic], just don't expect me to agree with your version of what I actually posted.   

 

And I don't expect others to necessarily agree with my opinion, this is a forum, not a mutual admiration society, why would anyone on a forum expect that?

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All I heard was that the owners apparently ignored an inspectors report that the waterproofing on the pool patio needed replacing because it would cost a lot.

No doubt a reason will be given eventually. Going to be a problem if concrete cancer is becoming a problem. High rise concrete structures haven't been around very long, but there are a lot of them now.

 

Imagine the chaos if it was found that concrete buildings became dangerous after 70 or 80 years!

 

https://freyssinet.co.uk/concrete-cancer-can-prevented-concrete-repairs/

This is known as concrete cancer, the term used to refer to the rusting of steel reinforcements that are contained within a concrete slab.

Not only the owners, but the city officials who received the report I read.

I think there could be the biggest litigation happening soon.

Meanwhile where are those who survived and need shelter being accommodated and cared for?

 

[jomtienisgood]

15 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Still dead, however found sooner for cremation

Faster to heaven, what more to expect after living in Pattaya?? ????

[Liverpool Lou]

12 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Personally I would buy as high as possible, in case of collapse I would end up on top and not underneath 20+ floors... 

Yeah, tons of one concrete roof collapsing on your head wouldn't be a problem, would it?   By the way, you wouldn't be on top, the roof would be!

[tomazbodner]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nonsense.   The Korat example that you quoted collapsed for that very reason, permission for adding extra floors was not applied for and that is a requirement.  Anyone cannot do anything that they want!

But they still added floors and nothing would have happened to them had the building not collapsed. That was the point of the post. Yes, they should have applied and that would possibly/likely be denied.

 

So they do what they want. If inspection comes around, they just pay them to go away.

 

There are many buildings in Thailand that are not built to standard, and many more that had floors added illegally and in general, the only time these people face any consequences would be if building collapsed, flipped over or started cracking up.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

I read that the special assessment for repairs was going to be about $115k per unit.  Even thought the (bubble?) value was currently between $500k to $1mm, a quick check of property records shows that many units sold for well under $200k back in the early 2000s and even under $100k in the 90s so there is a distinct possibility that the owners had neither the funds nor the ability to borrow to shoulder an additional $115k.  How many people from those days are still holding their units is an unknown but I wouldn’t be surprised that there would be enough of them to vote “no” on a special assessment that is more than half (or even more than the total) price that they originally paid.  An unfortunate situation for all involved.

 

Okay, so $200K or even (better) $100K in the early 2000s, which was about twenty years ago. 

 

So now it's 2021 and you're twenty years in on thirty year loan and you now owe about $50-100K on a half million dollar property. How is it you can't get a loan?

 

Sure, if you re-financed every few years and sucked all your equity out your it might be tough, but you still could have sold.