I want to whine about the West and "woke" generation

[rumak]

Allow me to paraphrase :  The more i read what some people write............ the more i am 

thankful they are not my neighbors.

 

Now...... if i can just figure out how to get rid of my neighbors   ????

[simon43]

14 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

...

For anyone who does not understand, look up Enoch Powell.

 

Enoch Powell was a highly intelligent and astute politician who warned about what might happen with unchecked immigration. 

 

He was right...

[colinneil]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

Enoch Powell was a highly intelligent and astute politician who warned about what might happen with unchecked immigration. 

 

He was right...

Yes, he was 100 per cent correct, in nineteen sixty six rivers of blood speech, spot on.

He was cruxified for it, he should have been listened to.

Edited June 26, 2021 by colinneil

[Gecko123]

Can we now at least all agree that this earlier thread started by the OP wasn't just the harmless social satire that some disingenuously claimed it should be treated as?

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1213482-she-doesnt-want-to-rent-it-out-to-black-men/

 

Woke: alert to injustice in society, especially racism. In my opinion, the OP needs to wake up.

[Damrongsak]

9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

That entire line about "country of immigrants" is a empty rhetoric

The USA was once a nation that only land owners could vote

The USA was once a nation that burned witches at the stake
The USA was once a nation that killed indigenous people, stole their land, and put people on reservations
The USA was once a nation that it was illegal for a white person to marry a black
The USA was once a nation that in hung cattle rustlers
The USA was once a nation that allowed for the owning and selling of slaves
The USA was once a nation that interned Japanese citizens
The USA was once a nation that had no immigration laws
The USA was once a nation that immigrants could come get free land but support themselves
The USA was once a land that a person received no benefits from the government

I could go on  

The point is that just because something was done in the past does not justify its continuance in the future.  As to the comment regarding immigrant not being welcomed.  I find that blatantly false.  However I and I believe most Americans want "immigration" not "invasion"   A person who enters your home illegally is not an "undocumented guest"  They are a criminal.  A person who crosses the border illegally is not an immigrant they too are a criminal, breaking immigration laws.  The USA and every country should have the right to say who it invites to live in the country, not be subject to whoever wants to enter.  As to skin color I find you are absolutely wrong.  It is not about "skin" it is about "skill"  A person entering a country should have the necessary skills to be self supporting, not expect that the country support them because they lack sufficient skill to maintain themselves.   If you look at the USA the group with the highest educational achievement and highest family income it is not Caucasian but Asian.  Not all groups of people wanting to the USA come with the same likelihood of success.  Less than 2% of true immigrants from Japan are on any sort of public welfare while 46% from Laos do, it isn't a question of color, it is a point of should the USA be the haven for people who wish to enter because living on welfare is infinitely better than the life in their native country.  I certainly believe in a points system based on skill set and rule out any aspect of race.  A black doctor from Nigeria  should be a preferred immigrant versus an unemployed coal miner from Poland. 
 

Well, the USA did a few things right, and a lot wrong in the grand scheme of things over the years.  But these days, bring something to the table. Don't just feed off the low hanging tits of society. My clan mostly came from Germany around 1900.  My Grandpa went back to fight them in WW1.

[Ventenio]

People need to get WOKE and look at the big picture

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

 

There are genocides happening NOW!!!!!   and yet some joker will spend his entire life hating on one politician...

 

10,000 hours on a shooting where one person is killed (not Floyd, that was different and worthy of the time) and then 10 seconds on a country killing its own people.  

 

the east needs to get WOKE.

 

But I need to get a beer....lol

[2009]

I never experienced this "woke culture" personally, thankfully.

 

It just seems to be all the folks who dislike straight, white males.

 

There are of course a few straight, white males in there too who are, for some reason, guilting themselves.

 

I used to be VERY left leaning, but these extreme leftists are pushing me right.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Wasn't the USA always a country of immigrants? 

It seems many older immigrants don't like the newer immigrants - at least if they have the wrong skin color.

Depends whether one is referring to an entity that was created a few centuries ago, or the land mass currently occupied by the USA.

If referring to the land mass, one would have to go back millennia to describe some of the inhabitants as "immigrants".

 

It seems many older immigrants don't like the newer immigrants

the older immigrants didn't normally arrive expecting to be taken care of by those there already, and most didn't enter illegally.

Besides, IMO the US is full already- no new frontiers left to conquer.

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, 2009 said:

I never experienced this "woke culture" personally, thankfully.

 

It just seems to be all the folks who dislike straight, white males.

 

There are of course a few straight, white males in there too who are, for some reason, guilting themselves.

 

I used to be VERY left leaning, but these extreme leftists are pushing me right.

 

I was going to say I'd never experienced it either, but I once said the wrong thing to a western woman I used to think was sensible, and she went woke right in front of me. IMO it is mainly a western female thing, but some western males are being co opted, unfortunately.

 

There are of course a few straight, white males in there too who are, for some reason, guilting themselves.

There's a rather insulting term ( or even several ) for such as those.

 

I used to be VERY left leaning, but these extreme leftists are pushing me right.

They give socialism a bad name, and leave sensible people with nowhere to go but right, IMO

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Racial hatred of white people? You need to stop. 

Why? It exists and not just in the US.

The most racist people I have known personally were not white Caucasians.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Ventenio said:

People need to get WOKE and look at the big picture

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

 

There are genocides happening NOW!!!!!   and yet some joker will spend his entire life hating on one politician...

 

10,000 hours on a shooting where one person is killed (not Floyd, that was different and worthy of the time) and then 10 seconds on a country killing its own people.  

 

the east needs to get WOKE.

 

But I need to get a beer....lol

10 seconds on a country killing its own people.  

If it was white people doing that the woke would be all over it, but strangely ( NOT ) they seem to be happy to ignore the current things happening in a certain non white country.

Can't really get into this as it becomes political real fast.

[BKKBike09]

9 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

If it were your direct bloodlines that this had happened to I believe you would not feel that way. Especially when these atrocities were well known of ( in certain circles) and hidden from public knowledge for many years. Some **** just can't be excused, and really, you have to question the ethics of those who don't want anyone held accountable - too late for that in this case for this may just the tip of the body count..

I'm half Jewish by blood (Eastern European Jewry). So should I demand to hold to account all modern day European citizens from nations that, in historic times, violently persecuted Jews? Not just the Germans under Hitler, but the numerous pogroms against European Jews from the C12th onwards? Of course not. It's much more important to learn from history and, rather than try to blame people today for the sins of their forefathers, acknowledge that terrible events happened and work together to try and prevent them from happening again.

 

Equally, because I'm half Jewish, should I be blamed for Israel's actions against the Palestinians? Perhaps since I'm a middle-aged white bloke without the 'lived experience' of those events, I have no right to a view?

 

Personally, I find the 'woke' culture more depressing than anything else, because it seems to me that, thanks to the ubiquity and power of social media, a generation of young people are growing up leery of holding or expressing any opinion that could be deemed controversial. 

 

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations, if not ever: unprecedented population levels, unprecedented demands on the natural environment, unprecedented global connectivity both physical (transport) and virtual, unprecedented gulf between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past.

 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations, if not ever: unprecedented population levels, unprecedented demands on the natural environment, unprecedented global connectivity both physical (transport) and virtual, unprecedented gulf between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past.

We = white western folk (less than 14% of the world).

Nothing much is changing for the rest of the world.

Edited June 27, 2021 by BritManToo

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

We = white western folk (less than 14% of the world).

Nothing much is changing for the rest of the world.

Seems to me that a lot of posters think that Europeans are the center of the universe, and disregard everything going on in non western countries. Everything they write is IMO Eurocentric.

 

On the God thread, all the attacks are about Christianity and sod all about any other major religion such as Islam or Hinduism.

Even on TVF some apparently think that farangs are the most important thing in Thailand's economy, LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations,

Who are "we"?

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

I'm half Jewish by blood (Eastern European Jewry). So should I demand to hold to account all modern day European citizens from nations that, in historic times, violently persecuted Jews? Not just the Germans under Hitler, but the numerous pogroms against European Jews from the C12th onwards? Of course not. It's much more important to learn from history and, rather than try to blame people today for the sins of their forefathers, acknowledge that terrible events happened and work together to try and prevent them from happening again.

 

Equally, because I'm half Jewish, should I be blamed for Israel's actions against the Palestinians? Perhaps since I'm a middle-aged white bloke without the 'lived experience' of those events, I have no right to a view?

 

Personally, I find the 'woke' culture more depressing than anything else, because it seems to me that, thanks to the ubiquity and power of social media, a generation of young people are growing up leery of holding or expressing any opinion that could be deemed controversial. 

 

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations, if not ever: unprecedented population levels, unprecedented demands on the natural environment, unprecedented global connectivity both physical (transport) and virtual, unprecedented gulf between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past.

 

I applaud the thoughtfulness of your post, but I don't agree with the argument that present day generations who continue to benefit from historical injustices committed by past generations bear no responsibility for these past injustices. At the very least they should make an effort to acknowledge that these injustices occurred and aren't being perpetuated present day. Labeling every effort to highlight inequities in police brutality, incarceration rates, access to health care and educational opportunities, income and wealth disparities as just another (yawn) example of "woke" culture, seems to me to be a very cynical attempt to tune out these realities simply because they're too uncomfortable for the listener to deal with.

 

People whining about "woke" culture also seem to me to be extremely hypocritical. These same people who pooh-pooh calls for reparations for slavery and WWII Japanese internment camps, who downplay the damage colonialism did in the third world, who rail against affirmative action programs and laws intended to prevent employment and housing discrimination against racial and religious minorities and, yes, people with handicaps, and who will even voice distaste for miscegenation and express opinions that different races should be kept separate from one another, are the very first to howl in protest that the innocuous term "farang" should be treated as a racial slur, bch about Thais not wanting to sit next to foreigners on the sky train, and endlessly gripe about dual-pricing, but who then have absolutely no problem with race-mixing and multi-culturalism when it comes to banging bar girls, and taking advantage of the higher standard of living Thailand affords them. You can't have it both ways, gentlemen.

 

But the thing I do agree with you about is your assessment that the unprecedented challenges facing humanity at this juncture of human history are going to make arguments about "woke culture" seem like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic when the full scope of these challenges become clearer. Climate change alone is going to wreak havoc on the global pecking order. The US and Western Europe have long assumed that they would not bear the brunt of climate change, but with droughts and flooding becoming more and more prevalent in these regions, it is becoming increasingly apparent that this may not be the case. As you pointed out, there is no question that climate change is going to put enormous pressure on global resources (especially food production) and that humanity is going to need to learn to better cooperate and work together if it's going to survive.

 

I think you and I are at least in agreement that starting whiny-a$$ petty grievance threads about "woke culture" aren't moving us in the direction we need to be going in.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Gecko123

[clivebaxter]

11 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

The american war of independence was a war of secession, not liberation.  It marked the refusal of the wealthiest landowners in the British Empire to pay taxes to their sovereign state, while still promulgating their war on the residents of the land and relying on imported slave labour for their wealth.   

Just the same as the CSA succession which caused the civil war. 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

The US and Western Europe have long assumed that they would not bear the brunt of climate change,

Link please.

I dispute that. Articles about climate change were published decades ago in western countries, while countries in Asia, Africa and Brazil have been deforesting as fast as they could, and polluting the oceans with abandon.

[Thomas J]

4 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Well, the USA did a few things right, and a lot wrong in the grand scheme of things over the years.  But these days, bring something to the table. Don't just feed off the low hanging tits of society. My clan mostly came from Germany around 1900.  My Grandpa went back to fight them in WW1.

I think that is true for most societies.  Certainly if you look at the history of any of the major countries whether that is China, Russia, Germany, Japan, the UK, France, Italy, Spain,  There are events in their past that were outstanding and those that were despicable.  But somehow there has grown this misguided perception that the West and in particular the USA should welcome and financially support every person from impoverished nations that wants to enter their borders.  

If there truly was sincere regard for the well being of people in impoverished nations the act should be to help them enrich the life in their country for all of that regions citizens.  Taking a few million from those regions still leaves the remainder of their citizens in decrepit conditions and leads to the next generation of people seeking to escape it.  Paul Harvey said it best, out of misguided compassion for those drowning pulling too many people into a life boat means the boat capsizes and everyone drowns.  The USA has only 5% of the worlds population, already runs massive deficits from spending it can't afford.  Taking in millions who add little to nothing but take from the public welfare does not raise the USA in brings it down to the mean of other countries who don't have citizens that cant support themselves. There again seems to be this misguided notion that taking in millions of indigent people, the majority which can not speak English, and with again the majority having less than an 8th grade education has no adverse effects.  They are wrong.  The USA as mentioned has only 5% of the worlds population but already takes in half of the world's refugees.  If people wish to enter the USA it should be done respecting the laws governing immigration.  If they don't respect those laws, what gives anyone the notion that they will obey other laws once inside the borders of the USA. 

[BangkokReady]

13 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

A quote from 1788:

 

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice, that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country, to one united people; a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence.
—John Jay

 

Crazy to think that now everybody but White people are allowed to express this.

[cdemundo]

You are right to feel disgusted.

It's virtue signaling.

Does nothing to help anyone or resolve any pain.

There must be some kind of pleasure-inducing neurotransmitter released by self-righteous anger and phony outrage.

The mistreatment of indigenous people in Canada (USA, Australia, you name it) was a cruel tragedy, but this seems like phony outrage to me.

[mokwit]

Wokeism is a small very vocal group forcing their politics on us by means other than the democratic process via control of Institutions and the media.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations, if not ever: unprecedented population levels, unprecedented demands on the natural environment, unprecedented global connectivity both physical (transport) and virtual, unprecedented gulf between the 'haves' and 'have nots.....

 

"We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past:"

 

 

AS for the first part ( above) .  Yes, true.   But these changes have been going on for as long as i can remember.    One might say the world is going downhill ,  not fast,  just slowww and steadyyy.                     

As for the challenges of the future.   Well,  same situation.  Talk, talk, talk.   Politicians, social visionaries,  billionaire "philanthropists" ,   all the same BS.   This is not like a football game where one side is doing good ,  but the other side seems to be turning the tide around.

Nope .   No chance.  The weapons of destruction :  guns, brainwashing, consumerism, and now the final dagger :  24 hour surveillance of all living human beings.  

Forget it !    Find your little patch of land.... or condo if that's your thing... and stop talking about others.   Fix yourselves.   I want to see fit, healthy, energetic, warm,  caring, helpful, unselfish people surrounding me as I get in line to do my TM30.   Because, believe me,

all the whining is not going to change that anytime soon.

Have a nice day,  y'all

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Wokeism is a small very vocal group forcing their politics on us by means other than the democratic process via control of Institutions and the media.

You're wrong,

It's the inevitable end to letting white women be in control.

In countries where there are no white women, it doesn't happen.

[rumak]

Just now, BritManToo said:

You're wrong,

It's the inevitable end to letting white women be in control.

In countries where there are no white women, it doesn't happen.

 

be careful mr white man !

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who are "we"?

 

I'd have thought it was self evidently "all humans on the planet", whether they realise it or not. I don't think there's an 'opt out' button for this. 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong,

It's the inevitable end to letting white women be in control.

In countries where there are no white women, it doesn't happen.

I would say that it's the inevitable end to having hardly any male teachers. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, males generally don't become teachers any more because of, IMO, the hysteria over pedo men back a few decades.

Soooo, for decades, children have been shaped by females, many with, IMO, an agenda.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

I'd have thought it was self evidently "all humans on the planet", whether they realise it or not. I don't think there's an 'opt out' button for this. 

But you're wrong, nobody apart from white western people give a flying one about all these 'issues'.

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I would say that it's the inevitable end to having hardly any male teachers. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, males generally don't become teachers any more because of, IMO, the hysteria over pedo men back a few decades.

Soooo, for decades, children have been shaped by females, many with, IMO, an agenda.

Not only teachers, but fathers as well ......... divorced women effectively have 100% control over raising children.

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

I applaud the thoughtfulness of your post, but I don't agree with the argument that present day generations who continue to benefit from historical injustices committed by past generations bear no responsibility for these past injustices. At the very least they should make an effort to acknowledge that these injustices occurred and aren't being perpetuated present day. Labeling every effort to highlight inequities in police brutality, incarceration rates, access to health care and educational opportunities, income and wealth disparities as just another (yawn) example of "woke" culture, seems to me to be a very cynical attempt to tune out these realities simply because they're too uncomfortable for the listener to deal with.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond in a similarly thoughtful manner.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that present day generations should make an effort to acknowledge that injustices occurred and, importantly, aren't being perpetuated. But I disagree they should also take any responsibility for past injustices. Acknowledging them, and supporting remedial action where appropriate, should be enough.