Exercise is everything

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Mostly in Tokyo, LOL. But I did ramble a bit in Nagano Prefecture, ironically. I remember once, up in the hills, coming upon an isolated country cemetery surrounded by trees. I noticed that one grave had a sealed bottle of Seagram's whiskey placed carefully beside it. Seemed to have been there a while. I was quite impressed; you can imagine just how long that bottle would have lasted in any cemetery back home, or among a cluster of chedi in Thailand.

Sat in bar on our soi yesterday, early doors.............there are five consecutive small, street bars, each has their own  "set up" on the pavement with offerings to Buddha.............little old guy came along......... slowly, calmly downed all the whiskey shots put out by all five bars.......happy days..........5555

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

So if you eat 8000 calories of "excess meat" you think the body will discard it undigested because you cooked it yourself, this is what you believe?

I believe

If I put you on ignore I won't need to read your nonsense.

Goodbye.

[Surelynot]

12 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

So if you eat 8000 calories of "excess meat" you think the body will discard it undigested because you cooked it yourself, this is what you believe?

It must be true.....my wife is 40kg and eats for 18 hours a day.

[BigStar]

On 7/6/2021 at 4:34 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

A friend of mine died a while back. He wasn't obese, and had no apparent medical problems, but died far younger than I. I put it down to his occupation which was selling houses, and his sport was lawn bowls, ergo a life with no physical exertion to speak of.

So then it seems likely that exercise would indeed have led to a longer life.

 

This touches one of our fave excuses: The Guys.

 

Doing nothing, I've already outlived some guys who dieted and/or exercised.

 

Problem is, we have no idea how healthy The Guys really were. They weren't overweight or by much, certainly not relative to ourselves. We didn't see the blood reports,  however. We didn't see the scans; many didn't have the scans that would reveal preventable issues. Jim Fixx ignored his previous history and the signs he had a problem. We also don't know about any congenital problems. Maybe they didn't either. A brain aneurysm feels no obligation to announce itself before it suddenly kills you.

 

One thing a good scan will reveal in those of normal weight will be visceral fat. 

 

This phenomena—sometimes known as skinny-fat, or “normal-weight obesity”—may affect up to one-fourth of normal weight people, according to one 2008 study. “They look healthy, but when we check them out they have high levels of body fat and inflammation,” says Ishwarlal Jialal, MD, director of the Laboratory for Atherosclerosis and Metabolic Research at UC Davis Health System. “They’re at high risk for diabetes and cardiovascular problems, but you wouldn’t know it from their appearance.”

     --https://www.health.com/condition/obesity/5-signs-you-might-be-skinny-fat

 

Indeed, one in four slim people have pre-diabetes and are 'metabolically obese’, according to research.

 

Also known as ‘skinny fat’ or Metabolically Obese Normal Weight, they have an unhealthy amount of fat around their organs.

 

This visceral fat can be more metabolically dangerous than subcutaneous fat - which lies directly under your skin - and it can increase insulin resistance and inflammation.

     --https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/848957/heart-disease-high-blood-pressure-fat-obesity

 

Funny I once had a girlfriend who successfully stayed downright skinny while subsisting on the most finicky selection of junk food you can imagine. Her early death from breast cancer came as quite a shock. I've often thought it had something to do with her diet and total lack of exercise.

 

So just "normal weight" doesn't actually mitigate the need for healthy diet AND exercise. The weight isn't everything. You can be luckier than The Guys, but maybe you have their problems to a lesser degree and don't yet know it. Or maybe being overweight prompts doctors to do more checks of your health and more readily prescribe meds.

 

Yeah, The Guys isn't quite the reliable justification we seem to think it is. 

 

On 7/6/2021 at 4:34 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

The only point I've attempted to make is that lifestyle is more important than exercise per se, and what we eat is more important than "dieting".

 

A fallacy of division, confusing whole with parts. True, eating is a necessary part of a lifestyle except for that of the breatharians. Breatharianism hasn’t won acceptance among our Nutritionists, however. Lack of pies and pastries, I suppose.

 

But what’s asserted by the OP to excuse his lack of exercise is the usual straw man contention that the primary purpose of exercise is lifespan. In fact, it’s about healthspan. But does the probability that you’ll live longer increase if you stay healthier? Well, yes; I've cited a study earlier. How might one best do that? By trying to have a healthy lifestyle.

 

Exercise is an inseparable part of a healthy lifestyle as is a healthy diet.

 

Just as in your case, what the average person eats is mostly determined by the food industry. Read Denise Minger’s Death by Food Pyramid: How Shoddy Science, Sketchy Politics and Shady Special Interests Have Ruined Our Health. The last food pyramid you looked at in the 80s had sugar perched right at the top, and it tried to eliminate fats so you’d have to eat more carbs. Big pharma contributes to the official food pyramids, of course. Illness and obesity are wonderful for the medical establishment.

 

Therefore following any healthy diet contrary to the recommended suboptimal guidelines must perforce be "dieting," whether you want to call it that or not. Dieting probably means “counting calories” to you (the health/fitness industry love promoting that idea) but it needn’t.

 

All this isn’t to say a healthy diet isn’t the more important component of a healthy lifestyle. It is that.

 

 

[Lacessit]

On 7/2/2021 at 2:32 AM, RichardColeman said:

You could also conclude that life expectancy is linked to sex speed. The faster you rut the shorter your life span. Meaning if you slow your sex speed to that of a turtle you may live longer. 

I'm just wondering if you have tried explaining this concept to a bar girl.

Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening. At age 78, I see no reason to become a puritan.

I do exercise, but IMO I'm not stupid about it.

[rcuthbert]

Training "the big 3" will stimulate the release of HGH and testosterone. The keys are not to over train, proper nutrition, and, even if you are training properly - going light every 4th week. Thus preventing the over-release of adrenaline, norepinephrine, and cortisol - the 3 major stress hormones.

Don't forget cardiovascular exercise.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I'm just wondering if you have tried explaining this concept to a bar girl.

Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening. At age 78, I see no reason to become a puritan.

I do exercise, but IMO I'm not stupid about it.

I'm pre diabetic so I have a vested interest in giving up sugar, but only the threat of going blind was enough to make me give up sugar. If diabetes led to a sudden death without the losing feet and bits of legs prior to the welcome heart attack I'd be increasing my sugar intake.

Living healthy may not in fact prolong my life, but it'll certainly seem a lot longer.

[BigStar]

17 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

I don't think walking is stressful on joints, even at a 10000 step mark.

The point was for the obese. Judge for yourself whose joints will feel the most stress from coming down on concrete 10000 times per day. Why might that be?

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

The point was for the obese. Judge for yourself whose joints will feel the most stress from coming down on concrete 10000 times per day. Why might that be?

 

 

We live in a time we know more about health than at any time in history, yet many think it's OK to be obese, to the point of trying to ban fat shaming.

 

No wonder I despair about the prospects for western civilization.

[Tanomazu]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

The point was for the obese. Judge for yourself whose joints will feel the most stress from coming down on concrete 10000 times per day. Why might that be?

 

 

You're talking about normal walking. Most obese can walk 10,000 steps and their joints will be perfectly fine.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Tanomazu said:

You're talking about normal walking. Most obese can walk 10,000 steps and their joints will be perfectly fine.

Well, we tried common sense. I realize it's rather scarce around here. Now hear the medical profession, at random.

 

There are two ways that being overweight raises your risk for developing osteoarthritis (the most common joint disorder, which is due to wear and tear on a joint). First, excess weight puts additional stress on weight-bearing joints (the knee, for example). Second, inflammatory factors associated with weight gain might contribute to trouble in other joints (for example, the hands).

 

Let's look at weight and your knees. When you walk across level ground, the force on your knees is the equivalent of 1½ times your body weight. That means a 200-pound man will put 300 pounds of pressure on his knees with each step.

     --Why weight matters when it comes to joint pain

 

Obesity contributes to the wear-and-tear of the joints, eventually leading to osteoarthritis. The more weight that is placed on a joint the more stressed the joint becomes, causing it to wear down and become damaged. As the smooth surface at the ends of bones, or cartilage, becomes damaged and worn, you feel pain and stiffness in the joint. This can also cause swelling. 

 

Extra weight also puts pressure on the tendons, or connecting tissue around the joints. These tendons connect muscles to the bones. The extra load on the joints from additional weight causes the tendon to become inflamed, leading to tendonitis. 

 

The effects of obesity are felt especially in the hip and knee joints.

     --The Impact of Obesity on Joint Health

 

14 studies were finally included in the analysis. The results showed that overweight and obesity were significantly associated with higher knee OA risks of 2.45 (95% CI 1.88 to 3.20, p<0.001) and 4.55 (95% CI 2.90 to 7.13, p<0.001), respectively. The risk of knee OA increases by 35% (95% CI 1.18 to 1.53, p<0.001) with a 5 kg/m² increase in BMI. Subgroup analysis showed that obesity was an independent predictor of knee OA risk regardless of the study country, sample size, gender proportion of participants, duration of follow-up, presence of adjusted knee injury and assessed study quality above or below an NOS score of 8.

    --Body mass index and risk of knee osteoarthritis: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies

 

I'll take common sense and the medical opinions, thank you. I've known 2 obese friends who only walked around their house and the supermarket who both had to get knee replacements in their 60s quite in accordance with the above medical opinions. They still tended to use wheelchairs at the supermarkets. I didn't know them much longer after that as the wife died at age 72 and her husband at age 74. They did avoid the bedsit, as the TVF Bedsit Paradigm predicts, but they'd suffered probably two decades with all the usual chronic diseases. But of course, having to diet and exercise a few hours of week would have created vastly MORE suffering.

 

OK, about the only thing you can do now for a reality check is to buy two 50 L backpacks, fill each with dry sand--which should give you 76 kg each--put them both on (one in front, one in back), and walk 10,000 steps daily on concrete for a few months. You could speed up the process by jogging and climbing stairs. Let us know how that goes. If good, you can continue and see how your knees, ankles, hips and back feel after a year.

 

Of course, you'll notice no ill effect, even the painful hobbling, but--just in case--you can take advantage of the free Japanese universal healthcare system. So, nothing to lose, eh.

[Tanomazu]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Well, we tried common sense. I realize it's rather scarce around here. Now hear the medical profession, at random.

 

There are two ways that being overweight raises your risk for developing osteoarthritis (the most common joint disorder, which is due to wear and tear on a joint). First, excess weight puts additional stress on weight-bearing joints (the knee, for example). Second, inflammatory factors associated with weight gain might contribute to trouble in other joints (for example, the hands).

 

Let's look at weight and your knees. When you walk across level ground, the force on your knees is the equivalent of 1½ times your body weight. That means a 200-pound man will put 300 pounds of pressure on his knees with each step.

     --Why weight matters when it comes to joint pain

 

Obesity contributes to the wear-and-tear of the joints, eventually leading to osteoarthritis. The more weight that is placed on a joint the more stressed the joint becomes, causing it to wear down and become damaged. As the smooth surface at the ends of bones, or cartilage, becomes damaged and worn, you feel pain and stiffness in the joint. This can also cause swelling. 

 

Extra weight also puts pressure on the tendons, or connecting tissue around the joints. These tendons connect muscles to the bones. The extra load on the joints from additional weight causes the tendon to become inflamed, leading to tendonitis. 

 

The effects of obesity are felt especially in the hip and knee joints.

     --The Impact of Obesity on Joint Health

 

14 studies were finally included in the analysis. The results showed that overweight and obesity were significantly associated with higher knee OA risks of 2.45 (95% CI 1.88 to 3.20, p<0.001) and 4.55 (95% CI 2.90 to 7.13, p<0.001), respectively. The risk of knee OA increases by 35% (95% CI 1.18 to 1.53, p<0.001) with a 5 kg/m² increase in BMI. Subgroup analysis showed that obesity was an independent predictor of knee OA risk regardless of the study country, sample size, gender proportion of participants, duration of follow-up, presence of adjusted knee injury and assessed study quality above or below an NOS score of 8.

    --Body mass index and risk of knee osteoarthritis: systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies

 

I'll take common sense and the medical opinions, thank you. I've known 2 obese friends who only walked around their house and the supermarket who both had to get knee replacements in their 60s quite in accordance with the above medical opinions. They still tended to use wheelchairs at the supermarkets. I didn't know them much longer after that as the wife died at age 72 and her husband at age 74. They did avoid the bedsit, as the TVF Bedsit Paradigm predicts, but they'd suffered probably two decades with all the usual chronic diseases. But of course, having to diet and exercise a few hours of week would have created vastly MORE suffering.

 

OK, about the only thing you can do now for a reality check is to buy two 50 L backpacks, fill each with dry sand--which should give you 76 kg each--put them both on (one in front, one in back), and walk 10,000 steps daily on concrete for a few months. You could speed up the process by jogging and climbing stairs. Let us know how that goes. If good, you can continue and see how your knees, ankles, hips and back feel after a year.

 

Of course, you'll notice no ill effect, even the painful hobbling, but--just in case--you can take advantage of the free Japanese universal healthcare system. So, nothing to lose, eh.

Blah, blah, blah. It's WALKING!

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Blah, blah, blah. It's WALKING!

Yes, it IS. And I've seen what only walking can do to the obese. You? And now for--your EVIDENCE. Where is it?

 

While we're waiting, I'll continue to follow common sense and the science. I suggest the overweight and obese among us do the same. Stick with light exercise (short walks, for example) while you focus seriously on losing the weight. Standard advice you'll find in, for example, reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/.

 

You may, however, advise your orthopedist that no less an authority than @Tanomazu says you can do more with no problem and see if he agrees; then choose whom to follow. It's only your feet, ankles, knees, hips, and back.

[Tanomazu]

6 hours ago, BigStar said:

Yes, it IS. And I've seen what only walking can do to the obese. You? And now for--your EVIDENCE. Where is it?

 

While we're waiting, I'll continue to follow common sense and the science. I suggest the overweight and obese among us do the same. Stick with light exercise (short walks, for example) while you focus seriously on losing the weight. Standard advice you'll find in, for example, reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/.

 

You may, however, advise your orthopedist that no less an authority than @Tanomazu says you can do more with no problem and see if he agrees; then choose whom to follow. It's only your feet, ankles, knees, hips, and back.

You'll probably find some medical study that says getting up from a couch causes great stress on the joints.

 

Give me a break. Walking, simple mild walking, is perfectly fine for an obese person to do. Don't overdo it, Bigstar.

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

You'll probably find some medical study that says getting up from a couch causes great stress on the joints.

A resort to reductio ad absurdum merely confirms you know you've lost your "case." Guess you'll just have to suck it up.

 

12 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Give me a break. Walking, simple mild walking, is perfectly fine for an obese person to do. Don't overdo it, Bigstar.

And you've moved the goal post to pretend we weren't talking about 10,000 steps, which is about twice what the average American does daily.

 

But one laudable manifestation of Japanese culture and the general intelligence of Japanese people is their respect for science, informed medical opinions, and research. They're also noted for their politeness, manners, and discretion amid disagreements.

 

Hence, you're not really a Japanese, but, to judge by characteristic style, probably just some Brit troll pretending to be a Japanese. We had one not too long ago pretending to be a Thai, posting in Thai pidgin, or "pigeon" to use the official TVF Poster spelling (all those pigeons around Trafalgar Square I suppose).

 

The only meaningful point you've made was with regard to Japanese food. Being inevitably off topic probably reflects the urgent enthusiasm of a recent convert, perhaps a noob teaching English at some language school.

 

So, guess that's about it. I think we're about ready for a summary of the findings gleaned from this latest adventure in TVF Longevity Science research.

 

[Tanomazu]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

A resort to reductio ad absurdum merely confirms you know you've lost your "case." Guess you'll just have to suck it up.

 

And you've moved the goal post to pretend we weren't talking about 10,000 steps, which is about twice what the average American does daily.

 

But one laudable manifestation of Japanese culture and the general intelligence of Japanese people is their respect for science, informed medical opinions, and research. They're also noted for their politeness, manners, and discretion amid disagreements.

 

Hence, you're not really a Japanese, but, to judge by characteristic style, probably just some Brit troll pretending to be a Japanese. We had one not too long ago pretending to be a Thai, posting in Thai pidgin, or "pigeon" to use the official TVF Poster spelling (all those pigeons around Trafalgar Square I suppose).

 

The only meaningful point you've made was with regard to Japanese food. Being inevitably off topic probably reflects the urgent enthusiasm of a recent convert, perhaps a noob teaching English at some language school.

 

So, guess that's about it. I think we're about ready for a summary of the findings gleaned from this latest adventure in TVF Longevity Science research.

 

Try breaking the protein bars in half next time.

[rcuthbert]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:19 PM, BigStar said:

Yes, it IS. And I've seen what only walking can do to the obese. You? And now for--your EVIDENCE. Where is it?

 

While we're waiting, I'll continue to follow common sense and the science. I suggest the overweight and obese among us do the same. Stick with light exercise (short walks, for example) while you focus seriously on losing the weight. Standard advice you'll find in, for example, reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/.

 

You may, however, advise your orthopedist that no less an authority than @Tanomazu says you can do more with no problem and see if he agrees; then choose whom to follow. It's only your feet, ankles, knees, hips, and back.

If your gonna do the walking program, spend some coin on really good athletic shoes. Also, start small - and work your way up. A good "mind trick" to add, is to stash a pair of pants/shorts that are a snug fit. Then try them on once a month. If ones diet is good (intermittent fasting) one will find that they have become progressively loose.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/11/2021 at 2:33 AM, rcuthbert said:

If your gonna do the walking program, spend some coin on really good athletic shoes. Also, start small - and work your way up. A good "mind trick" to add, is to stash a pair of pants/shorts that are a snug fit. Then try them on once a month. If ones diet is good (intermittent fasting) one will find that they have become progressively loose.

My "snug" pants became progressively looser simply by eliminating as much sugar from my diet as possible. Dieting usually involves doing something different diet wise till one gets thinner, then going back to "normal" and simply re inflating all those fat cells.

For that reason I don't refer to diet, as they don't normally have a permanent effect. One has to significantly change one's life, IMO.

One can change one's food choices, eat less or exercise more, but to benefit one has to be in it for the long haul.

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dieting usually involves doing something different diet wise till one gets thinner, then going back to "normal" and simply re inflating all those fat cells.

For that reason I don't refer to diet, as they don't normally have a permanent effect.

What’s normal for you can be determined by yourself at any time.

 

People typically let the food industry determine “normal” for them, as you have in the past. It merely means “usually,” though it can mean “always,” as so many are quite adamant about always getting their processed food fixes in very particular ways. If they don’t, their way, it’s kind of like forced dieting. It means nothing less than starvation.

 

"Doing something different diet wise" can be considered dieting while the temporary goal is to lose weight or whatever. But then, having achieved the goal, one may choose not to go back to the old diet and comfortably follow, say, a less extreme version of the new diet permanently--so maintaining the ideal weight. Then it becomes the new normal diet for you.

 

So low carb can be your normal diet while you do nothing more diet wise. Doesn't matter that the average overweight slob believes you must be dieting if you're not dying for pizza and ice cream and you don't eat them as part of your normal diet.

I liked Sangeetha Aiyer’s recent tweet:

 

     I can't be tempted with food of any kind.

 

     Fasting fixed my relationship with food.

 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One can change one's food choices, eat less or exercise more, but to benefit one has to be in it for the long haul.

True. All lifestyles require food, but a healthy lifestyle requires healthy food and exercise. The latter doesn't have to be as difficult as the uninformed imagine. The food/pharma/fitness/medical industries don't have a vested interest in promoting that idea, however. ???? One might argue that a healthy lifestyle is actually normal (as reflected in "normal" biomarkers resulting) and all the obesity and early onset of chronic diseases in modern times is what's NOT normal.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, BigStar said:

True. All lifestyles require food, but a healthy lifestyle requires healthy food and exercise. The latter doesn't have to be as difficult as the uninformed imagine.

Errrr, you obviously don't know any sugar addicts. It's incredibly difficult going to supermarkets and walking past all the sugary food on offer. One has to think about why one is making the effort to change- in my case I don't want to go blind from diabetes. If it were just a case of being thinner and living longer I'd be snacking out on donuts right now, with a bag of Russian fudge to come while watching a movie.

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Errrr, you obviously don't know any sugar addicts. It's incredibly difficult going to supermarkets and walking past all the sugary food on offer. One has to think about why one is making the effort to change- in my case I don't want to go blind from diabetes.

Have known a couple well before they died early, as promoted in the TVF Bedsit Paradigm. They chose insulin shots, diabetic comas, heart disease, surgeries, knee replacements, wheelchairs, and a basket of meds to take daily--premature morbidity--over a healthy diet. Blindness, no problem if somebody'd just keep shoveling in the ice cream.

 

One of them did get admitted to a fat farm a few months, probably added his extra two years. He might have maintained his lower weight later on except that his wife was such a bad influence he was too weak to resist.

 

Obviously, if you don't really want to change, then you won't. My friends didn't and got annoyed if I suggested they do like the hospital dietitian always did.

 

However, I've read a lot of testimonials, and I've personally known some successful cases of reformed addicts who have no further desire for sweet stuff. To get over the addiction, you have to go cold turkey like all the other addicts do and stay there at least a couple of months. That means giving up not just sugar but all the other sources of elevated glucose that similarly stimulate an insulin response. Exercise would be helpful, of course.

 

 

Add in intermittent fasting as needed and then your insulin stays under control, you aren't hungry, you've lost the addiction, and you're free--just as the models predict. Short-time difficulty, no long-term struggle in the new normal.

 

 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

Have known a couple well before they died early, as promoted in the TVF Bedsit Paradigm. They chose insulin shots, diabetic comas, heart disease, surgeries, knee replacements, wheelchairs, and a basket of meds to take daily--premature morbidity--over a healthy diet. Blindness, no problem if somebody'd just keep shoveling in the ice cream.

Without you specifying their age your post is meaningless.

Died early at 75 ........ died early at 45 ......... it makes a difference.

 

My skinny pal died early at age 49 ,,,,,, fit as until he felt a bit ill at dinner, then was dead of stomach cancer less than 2 months later.

Another skinny pal died  ..... went cycling and walking with me often ,,,, age 58 pneumonia in Cyprus, medical repatriation to London, dead of AIDs a year later.

And another pal, vegetarian health food alternative medicine nut ..... quite large, fell over with a stroke age 45 paralyzed down one side, can't speak, no previous indications, not dead but shipped back to live with his mom in Hungry ...... walks with a Zimmer frame.

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Without you specifying their age your post is meaningless.

Died early at 75 ........ died early at 45 ......... it makes a difference.

No, your post is meaningless self-comforting noise, as the principle is the same.  Died early at 75 ........ had probability of making it to 90, died early at 45 ........ had probability of making it to 75. Figure it out.

 

The life expectancy can rise toward, but cannot exceed, the life span. The human life span appears to be approximately 85 years, with a broad distribution in which natural longevity for individuals falls nearly entirely within the range of from 70 to 100 years.

     --https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690269/

 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My skinny pal died early at age 49

These typical little self-serving anecdotes are meaningless as you don't have complete info about the medical history, the exact diet, fitness level, biomarkers, congenital illness, and the scans. Skinny fat can be worse than usual fat.

 

Just more of your little "What, me worry? It's me genes. Get nekkid!" excuse. But the TVF Science of Longevity has long discovered that excuse, so you got nothing new, just repetition and hence time-wasting.

 

You have a few more of our Principles, or rather Excuses, in your post including

 

The Guys

     I know some guys who seemed healthy but have already died.

 

No Ironclad Guarantee

     Known for extraordinary no-nonsense shrewdness, our members deal only in absolute certainties guaranteed in writing. Before one suffers the stress of denying oneself a puff pastry or of walking briskly around the block, one must first see the guarantee of precisely how much said sacrifice will reduce his dependence on his statins, ACE inhibitors, diabetes meds, blood thinners, and fake Viagra. His waistline will shrink by exactly how many centimeters? His obvious cognitive decline will reverse by exactly what percent? He may expect to live exactly how many years longer? WOT? No guarantee? HA! Thought so. “Honey? You seen me pills?”

 

What, me worry? I: The genes
     It’s all me genes. Git nekkid!

 

What, me worry? II: Fate

     It’s me fate. Might be hit by a lorry tomorrow. Get nekkid!

 

I should summarize the findings of our latest Research soon, which are actually just the same as the old findings. :) Diet and Exercise Avoidance is one of our recurring concerns, as one might imagine from looking at any group of expats.

 

So, up to u. Who cares? Anybody's free to sit in their same old bathwater as long as they wish. As noted earlier,

 

On 7/5/2021 at 5:53 PM, BigStar said:

I can't argue with religious or spiritual beliefs, sorry. Previously I've quoted some science for you, which of course you ignored. I think we can toss opinions from the chronically ill comforting themselves with invocations to voodoo genetics.

Some of us will, I think, prefer feeling healthy while we can and don't need the Excuses.

 

The plan then is to increase the likelihood of postponing chronic diseases by just continuing to follow along with the statistical probabilities as shown by the science. Congenital disease is in fact a thing, as many of our members can confirm; its early onset is strongly correlated with an unhealthy lifestyle; and it does tend to affect lifespans for obvious reasons you should be able to figure out. Yeah, seems more rational to observe measurable risk/reward ratios than your anecdotes about The Guys.

 

 

I knew the health histories of my friends I mentioned earlier as I sometimes helped with their hospital visits. The above graph predicts exactly what happened to them in the end. That was after the stents, too.

 

So that's been working great so far for me, as it seems to be for countless others, including--shockingly--a few forum members. More power to 'em.

 

Come to think of it, I can't recall hearing of anyone who's achieved fitness and health--as any normal person can, with less effort than commonly believed--yet regrets doing so. "Sure miss carrying around that belly!" or "Sure miss taking those pills!" Nah, nobody ever says that. Sorry--enjoy all your meds.

 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

7 hours ago, BigStar said:

No, your post is meaningless self-comforting noise, as the principle is the same.  Died early at 75 ........ had probability of making it to 90, died early at 45 ........ had probability of making it to 75. Figure it out.

 

The life expectancy can rise toward, but cannot exceed, the life span. The human life span appears to be approximately 85 years, with a broad distribution in which natural longevity for individuals falls nearly entirely within the range of from 70 to 100 years.

     --https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2690269/

 

These typical little self-serving anecdotes are meaningless as you don't have complete info about the medical history, the exact diet, fitness level, biomarkers, congenital illness, and the scans. Skinny fat can be worse than usual fat.

 

Just more of your little "What, me worry? It's me genes. Get nekkid!" excuse. But the TVF Science of Longevity has long discovered that excuse, so you got nothing new, just repetition and hence time-wasting.

 

You have a few more of our Principles, or rather Excuses, in your post including

 

The Guys

     I know some guys who seemed healthy but have already died.

 

No Ironclad Guarantee

     Known for extraordinary no-nonsense shrewdness, our members deal only in absolute certainties guaranteed in writing. Before one suffers the stress of denying oneself a puff pastry or of walking briskly around the block, one must first see the guarantee of precisely how much said sacrifice will reduce his dependence on his statins, ACE inhibitors, diabetes meds, blood thinners, and fake Viagra. His waistline will shrink by exactly how many centimeters? His obvious cognitive decline will reverse by exactly what percent? He may expect to live exactly how many years longer? WOT? No guarantee? HA! Thought so. “Honey? You seen me pills?”

 

What, me worry? I: The genes
     It’s all me genes. Git nekkid!

 

What, me worry? II: Fate

     It’s me fate. Might be hit by a lorry tomorrow. Get nekkid!

 

I should summarize the findings of our latest Research soon, which are actually just the same as the old findings. :) Diet and Exercise Avoidance is one of our recurring concerns, as one might imagine from looking at any group of expats.

 

So, up to u. Who cares? Anybody's free to sit in their same old bathwater as long as they wish. As noted earlier,

 

Some of us will, I think, prefer feeling healthy while we can and don't need the Excuses.

 

The plan then is to increase the likelihood of postponing chronic diseases by just continuing to follow along with the statistical probabilities as shown by the science. Congenital disease is in fact a thing, as many of our members can confirm; its early onset is strongly correlated with an unhealthy lifestyle; and it does tend to affect lifespans for obvious reasons you should be able to figure out. Yeah, seems more rational to observe measurable risk/reward ratios than your anecdotes about The Guys.

 

 

I knew the health histories of my friends I mentioned earlier as I sometimes helped with their hospital visits. The above graph predicts exactly what happened to them in the end. That was after the stents, too.

 

So that's been working great so far for me, as it seems to be for countless others, including--shockingly--a few forum members. More power to 'em.

 

Come to think of it, I can't recall hearing of anyone who's achieved fitness and health--as any normal person can, with less effort than commonly believed--yet regrets doing so. "Sure miss carrying around that belly!" or "Sure miss taking those pills!" Nah, nobody ever says that. Sorry--enjoy all your meds.

 

 

The only hesitation I have with your posts is the factor of personality. The tests you mention will show the picture of your health. Some people though can have the odd ice cream, and chocolate, and beer and not spiral into addiction. Some can't. That's clear with alcohol and gambling. So if you are someone who can have these pleasures in life, without going too far, then I think it's fine. A look in the mirror, and health tests you mention, will assist in telling you if it's OK, but sometimes putting a smile on your face has its' own benefits. 

You may be correct that for some going without these things will make you no longer desire these things. I doubt that applies to all people and the new reality, though possible, might make for a less fun life. It might make you a bit tight and serious and that new normal may have its own downsides. 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, BigStar said:

Have known a couple well before they died early, as promoted in the TVF Bedsit Paradigm. They chose insulin shots, diabetic comas, heart disease, surgeries, knee replacements, wheelchairs, and a basket of meds to take daily--premature morbidity--over a healthy diet. Blindness, no problem if somebody'd just keep shoveling in the ice cream.

 

One of them did get admitted to a fat farm a few months, probably added his extra two years. He might have maintained his lower weight later on except that his wife was such a bad influence he was too weak to resist.

 

Obviously, if you don't really want to change, then you won't. My friends didn't and got annoyed if I suggested they do like the hospital dietitian always did.

 

However, I've read a lot of testimonials, and I've personally known some successful cases of reformed addicts who have no further desire for sweet stuff. To get over the addiction, you have to go cold turkey like all the other addicts do and stay there at least a couple of months. That means giving up not just sugar but all the other sources of elevated glucose that similarly stimulate an insulin response. Exercise would be helpful, of course.

 

 

Add in intermittent fasting as needed and then your insulin stays under control, you aren't hungry, you've lost the addiction, and you're free--just as the models predict. Short-time difficulty, no long-term struggle in the new normal.

 

 

I've said it before, but a life as devoid of pleasure as you suggest would probably lead to my premature death by boredom.

Life for the sake of living IMO just ain't worth it.

 

Like someone said before, why suffer just to live longer in a "rest" home?

[Sparktrader]

On 7/7/2021 at 8:58 PM, Surelynot said:

It must be true.....my wife is 40kg and eats for 18 hours a day.

Not chips and coke

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/13/2021 at 4:36 AM, BigStar said:

No, your post is meaningless self-comforting noise, as the principle is the same.  Died early at 75 ........ had probability of making it to 90, died early at 45 ........ had probability of making it to 75. Figure it out.

LOL. What's "good" about living to 90? IMO not a single thing at all.

What's good about 75? Nothing either, IMO.

The Bible speaks of 3 score and 10. In my case spot on. Since 70 it's been a steep declining curve to inevitable death, gaining more health problems as I go, and losing teeth.

In the military we used to say "life is <deleted> and then you die". Given that I had a few amazing bits in between the bad women and the bad bosses I don't think that is wrong in general.

 

When the end comes all I hope is that it happens quickly, and doesn't hurt too much.

[Sparktrader]

On 7/7/2021 at 10:13 PM, rcuthbert said:

Training "the big 3" will stimulate the release of HGH and testosterone. The keys are not to over train, proper nutrition, and, even if you are training properly - going light every 4th week. Thus preventing the over-release of adrenaline, norepinephrine, and cortisol - the 3 major stress hormones.

Don't forget cardiovascular exercise.

Whats the big 3?

[BigStar]

On 7/13/2021 at 10:21 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I've said it before, but a life as devoid of pleasure as you suggest would probably lead to my premature death by boredom.

People have their preferred excuses or pseudo-fallacies to maintain their self-delusions. Yours happens to be sour grapes. ???? Got it.

> Life for the sake of living IMO just ain't worth it.

 

More of the same.

No one implied any such thing. Where are all those testimonials from, or studies of, those who’ve achieved a healthy, fit lifestyle that they’re bored, unhappy, listless, and living for the sake of living????? You haven’t done so, so what do you know? Same sour grapes above:

 

On 7/13/2021 at 7:18 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

might make for a less fun life. It might make you a bit tight and serious and that new normal may have its own downsides. 

 

Oh--"might," so better not try. Up 2 u. In fact, though, the evidence suggests precisely the opposite. Sorry. Me, I'd find living just to chase docs, meds, surgeries, and hospital appts pretty boring. Hate wasting time and money on them, too.????
 

> Like someone said before, why suffer just to live longer in a "rest" home?

And just more of the same sour grapes fantasy.

Why live longer with suffering by pissin’ around and ensuring it starts a decade or so earlier, as you have, and thereby increase as well the likelihood of suffering longer in the “rest” home? 

 

But that question was fully explored for you earlier with documentation. If you paid attention and could remember, perhaps you’d stop repeating the same self-serving irrationality. Probably an indication of cognitive decline as predicted by your lifestyle and inevitable chronic disease:

 

 

Specifically, the Association believes there is sufficiently strong evidence, from a population-based perspective, to conclude that regular physical activity and management of cardiovascular risk factors (diabetes, obesity, smoking, and hypertension) reduce the risk of cognitive decline and may reduce the risk of dementia. The Association also believes there is sufficiently strong evidence to conclude that a healthy diet and lifelong learning/cognitive training may also reduce the risk of cognitive decline.

     --Matthew Baumgart, Heather M. Snyder, Maria C. Carrillo, Sam Fazio, Hye Kim, Harry Johns,
"Summary of the evidence on modifiable risk factors for cognitive decline and dementia: A population-based perspective," Alzheimer's & Dementia, Volume 11, Issue 6, 2015, Pages 718-726, ISSN 1552-5260, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jalz.2015.05.016.

 

I’ll give you the chance to read the answer again a bit later.

 

 

[BigStar]

On 7/17/2021 at 9:21 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. What's "good" about living to 90? IMO not a single thing at all.

What's good about 75? Nothing either, IMO.

Guess you've been living under a rock.

 

Sixty-five to 79 is the happiest age group for adults, according to Office for National Statistics research.

 

The survey of more than 300,000 adults across the UK found life satisfaction, happiness and feeling life was worthwhile all peaked in that age bracket, but declined in the over-80s. , , , The over-90 age group reported by far the lowest levels of feeling their life was worthwhile, even though their reported levels of happiness and life satisfaction were comparable to those in their 20s and 30s.

     --https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35471624

 

. . . unhappy seniors . . . were twice as likely to develop diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and strokes. . . .

 

What makes seniors happy? Health diet and exercise are two important factors. WOT? More: The Way of Living: Being Happy and Healthy at an Old Age

 

Given the aging population, must be plenty of such to observe out and about. Why not get out of the old bathwater and ask them rather than posting Nonsense From The Tub here?

 

> The Bible speaks of 3 score and 10. In my case spot on. Since 70 it's been a steep declining curve to inevitable death, gaining more health problems as I go, and losing teeth.

 

Oh, it’s been on a much steeper decline than necessary for decades, and now the decline is of course even steeper than it would have been had you opted for a healthy lifestyle long ago. Guess it was all that Bible thumpin'.
 

 

You’re rather a classic case study for our members of what NOT to do while deluding oneself with sour grapes and a denial of personal responsibility. So that’s been valuable. ????

 

> In the military we used to say "life is <deleted> and then you die". Given that I had a few amazing bits in between the bad women and the bad bosses I don't think that is wrong in general.

 

Wrong military. Merely begs the question.

 

John Wayne had it right in The Sands of Iwo Jima: “Life is tough; it’s a lot tougher when you’re stupid.” Technically, now, somebody else said that later on, but John Wayne should have anyway.????

Your military experience may not extend quite this far back, but

Herodotus reports that just before the Battle of Thermoplyae, a Spartan warrior named Dienekes was told that the Persian archers could blank out the sun with their arrows. He replied "Good, then we shall have our battle in the shade."

 

> When the end comes all I hope is that it happens quickly, and doesn't hurt too much.

 

But you’ve worked to ensure it’ll happen more slowly and will hurt more. However, you’ve successfully avoided boring yourself through health and fitness and enjoyed your sweet tooth, so there's that.

Point of View is worth 80 IQ points.
     — Alan Kay