3 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Fit people dont live longer, less if super fit. Worn out. Like a car. Running kms shortens your life.

What about cycling, should I give it up?

During previous life in Oz, then 2 decades in Hong Kong,  the CLIMATE  was conducive to outdoor activities.....walking, hiking, swimming, tennis etc.

But now at 70 in Thailand it's just too hot and humid to do it. Unless you live by the sea (many hours of boring driving from Pathum Thani !). 

Even gardening or house repairs are a drag. 

Will stick with going. up and down the stairs !

Two best friends died of cancer in their early 60s....one an airline pilot....neither smoked, and moderate social drinkers. A

What will be will be !

On 7/1/2021 at 11:50 PM, swissie said:

Looking at the Rabbit/Turtle/Churchill situation, I am tempted to conclude that the "Exercise-Thing" is overrated and the "Gene-Thing" is underrated.
What to do? Best do nothing. When the final curtain falls, nobody at the entrance of "the pearly-gates" is likely to ask us of how many carrots or steaks we ate during our lifetime.

Whether exercise is beneficial or not can't be determined from some silly fantasy about what someone at the pearly gates will be asking. Turtles vs. rabbits, irrelevant. You know this.

 

TVF Life Coaches, however, typically claim that both diet (Throwing caution to the wind and b u g g e r the diet – How about you)  and exercise are about longevity. That's to avoid having to do either on the excuse that greater longevity must inevitably lead to more miserable years in a bedsit at the end of life.

 

So then the avoid-the-bedsit goal must be to live a short but happy life. That means no dieting or exercise like the unhappy, stressed out people do. It means, according to the juvenile mentality here, eating all the junk you want, staying drunk as much as possible, smoking at least a pack a day, enjoying as many recreational drugs as possible, and sh.a.gging 3 women a day. After all the happiness, you then suddenly drop dead at say age 60 and that's IT. You've had a life well lived.

 

The sudden disappearances of so many forum members yearly may attest to the success of this philosophy. But the posts on the Health forum don't. Why is that? What happened to all the little jokes, bravado, and fatalism? There's no "I had all me ciggies, lager, proper pork scratchings, cake 'n' ice cream; no docs for me, I'm outta here!" No. Nothing but worries about chronic diseases, docs, meds, hospitals, money and--pain and misery. Many guys in their 50s and 60s. WOT?

 

Turns out that TVF Life Coaching is more likely to lead to an early onset of some typical chronic disease to suffer with and then an earlier retirement to the bedsit and a greater percentage of your total years spent there fighting the diseases you've acquired during your "happy" years. 

 

So the contention that a healthy diet and exercise is about longevity primarily is merely a red herring to excuse laziness and weakness. It's mostly about maximizing the probability of postponing chronic diseases and feeling good now and for as far into the future as possible: healthspan. Study up on compression of morbidity. Why struggle decades with, say, heart disease when you can postpone it to the last few months?

Perhaps Mark Baker will be inspiring. I like his style:

 

Quote

. . . make sure you keep healthy, because health is your supreme asset. If you’re ill your life is f**ked. Most people don’t become ill for no reason; it’s the consequence of being a w.a.nker, not caring about their physical condition or what they eat. Your life is f**ked anyway because you’re going to die; but don’t accelerate the d.a.mn process! Leave that to the morons who blame their genetics or hormones for their illnesses. Keep strong, build muscle, face physical tests and challenges.

     --Gang Fit (Part 2)

Edited July 3, 20215 yr by BigStar

5 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Fit people dont live longer, less if super fit. Worn out. Like a car. Running kms shortens your life.

Study of a high physical exercise cohort compared with community controls over more than 20 years showed that disability at age 80 years had been postponed by nearly 16 years while mortality had been postponed about 7 years in the exercise cohort as opposed to controls. A similar study compared three groups of university alumni divided at baseline into cohorts with zero, one, or two/three major risk factors out of exercise, weight, and tobacco use and followed from age 69 to almost 90 years of age. The zero initial risk factor cohort postponed morbidity by 10 years and mortality by 3.3 years compared to high risk. The differences increased over time, occurred in all subgroups, and persisted after statistical adjustment.

 

    --“On the Compression of Morbidity: From 1980 to 2015 and Beyond.” Handbook of the Biology of Aging, Jan. 2016, pp. 507–24. www.sciencedirect.com, doi:10.1016/B978-0-12-411596-5.00019-8.

 

Running can shorten your life, according to The Wall Street Journal. The newspaper says new research shows that over time, people who run more than 32 to 40 kilometres per week lose the longevity benefits of exercise as the activity wears on the heart.

"Running too fast, too far and for too many years may speed one's progress toward the finish line of life," the newspaper quotes an upcoming editorial in the British journal Heart, which highlights a second large-scale study that found people who run faster than 12 kilometres an hour won't increase their longevity, while slower runners gain significant mortality benefits.

"Chronic extreme exercise appears to cause excessive 'wear-and-tear' on the heart," it said.

Go for a moderate walk

Extreme exercise is not good for you

https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

Enjoy your pies

 

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Running can shorten your life, according to The Wall Street Journal. The newspaper says new research shows that over time, people who run more than 32 to 40 kilometres per week lose the longevity benefits of exercise as the activity wears on the heart.

"Running too fast, too far and for too many years may speed one's progress toward the finish line of life," the newspaper quotes an upcoming editorial in the British journal Heart, which highlights a second large-scale study that found people who run faster than 12 kilometres an hour won't increase their longevity, while slower runners gain significant mortality benefits.

"Chronic extreme exercise appears to cause excessive 'wear-and-tear' on the heart," it said.

"Chronic extreme exercise." Not your assertion to which I responded. So a moving of the goalpost typical of specious argument.

Just now, BigStar said:

"Chronic extreme exercise." Not your assertion to which I responded. So a moving of the goalpost typical of specious argument.

Marathons is extreme

Fast is extreme

 

 

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer

Debunked.

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.00053/full

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_paradox#Criticisms

 

Also bmi data shows chubby people live longer. Maybe its being happy.

Just now, BigStar said:

Debunked.

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.00053/full

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_paradox#Criticisms

 

Wiki not credible source

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Enjoy your pies

 

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Wiki not credible source

Notes credible sources. Next.

Just now, BigStar said:

Notes credible sources. Next.

Not Wiki. Gibberish. Anyone can write stuff there.

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Also bmi data shows chubby people live longer. Maybe its being happy.

Meaningless measure. Good for an excuse, though.

Just now, BigStar said:

Meaningless measure. Good for an excuse, though.

Reality. Exercise overrated. Nutrition works best for health anyway. Long life mostly due to genes and diet.

Just now, Sparktrader said:

Not Wiki. Gibberish. Anyone can write stuff there.

Or rather, here. So refute the sources cited:

 

• Stokes, Andrew (2015). "Smoking and reverse causation create an obesity paradox in cardiovascular disease". Obesity. 23 (12): 2485–90. doi:10.1002/oby.21239. PMC 4701612. PMID 26421898.
•  
• Preston, Samuel; Stokes, Andrew (2014). "Obesity Paradox: Conditioning on Disease Enhances Biases in Estimating the Mortality Risks of Obesity". Epidemiology. 25 (3): 454–461. doi:10.1097/EDE.0000000000000075. PMC 3984024. PMID 24608666.
•  
• Berrington de Gonzalez A, Hartge P, Cerhan JR, Flint AJ, Hannan L, MacInnis RJ, Moore SC, Tobias GS, Anton-Culver H, Freeman LB, Beeson WL, Clipp SL, English DR, Folsom AR, Freedman DM, Giles G, Hakansson N, Henderson KD, Hoffman-Bolton J, Hoppin JA, Koenig KL, Lee IM, Linet MS, Park Y, Pocobelli G, Schatzkin A, Sesso HD, Weiderpass E, Willcox BJ, Wolk A, Zeleniuch-Jacquotte A, Willett WC, Thun MJ (2010). "Body-mass index and mortality among 1.46 million white adults". The New England Journal of Medicine. 363 (23): 2211–9. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa1000367. PMC 3066051. PMID 21121834.
•  
• Veronese, Nicola; Li, Yanping; Manson, JoAnn E; Willett, Walter C; Fontana, Luigi; Hu, Frank B. (20106) "Combined associations of body weight and lifestyle factors with all cause and cause specific mortality in men and women: prospective cohort study", BMJ, v355. doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.i5855.
•  
• Harrington, Mary; Gibson, Sigrid; Cottrell, Richard (2009). "A review and meta-analysis of the effect of weight loss on all-cause mortality risk". Nutr Res Rev. 22 (1): 93–108. doi:10.1017/S0954422409990035. PMID 19555520.
•  
• Prospective Studies Collaboration (2009). "Body-mass index and cause-specific mortality in 900 000 adults: collaborative analyses of 57 prospective studies". The Lancet. 373 (9669): 1083–1096. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(09)60318-4. PMC 2662372. PMID 19299006.
•  
• Chrysant, Steven G.; Chrysant, George S. (January 2013). "New insights into the true nature of the obesity paradox and the lower cardiovascular risk". Journal of the American Society of Hypertension. 7 (1): 85–94. doi:10.1016/j.jash.2012.11.008. PMID 23321407.
•  
• J., Rothman, Kenneth (2008). Modern epidemiology. Greenland, Sander, 1951–, Lash, Timothy L. (3rd edition, thoroughly revised and updated ed.). Philadelphia. ISBN 9780781755641. OCLC 169455558.
•  
• Banack, Hailey R.; Kaufman, Jay S. (May 2014). "The obesity paradox: Understanding the effect of obesity on mortality among individuals with cardiovascular disease". Preventive Medicine. 62: 96–102. doi:10.1016/j.ypmed.2014.02.003. ISSN 0091-7435. PMID 24525165.

Just now, BigStar said:

Or rather, here. So refute the sources cited:

 

• Stokes, Andrew (2015). "Smoking and reverse causation create an obesity paradox in cardiovascular disease". Obesity. 23 (12): 2485–90. doi:10.1002/oby.21239. PMC 4701612. PMID 26421898.
•  
• Preston, Samuel; Stokes, Andrew (2014). "Obesity Paradox: Conditioning on Disease Enhances Biases in Estimating the Mortality Risks of Obesity". Epidemiology. 25 (3): 454–461. doi:10.1097/EDE.0000000000000075. PMC 3984024. PMID 24608666.
•  
• Berrington de Gonzalez A, Hartge P, Cerhan JR, Flint AJ, Hannan L, MacInnis RJ, Moore SC, Tobias GS, Anton-Culver H, Freeman LB, Beeson WL, Clipp SL, English DR, Folsom AR, Freedman DM, Giles G, Hakansson N, Henderson KD, Hoffman-Bolton J, Hoppin JA, Koenig KL, Lee IM, Linet MS, Park Y, Pocobelli G, Schatzkin A, Sesso HD, Weiderpass E, Willcox BJ, Wolk A, Zeleniuch-Jacquotte A, Willett WC, Thun MJ (2010). "Body-mass index and mortality among 1.46 million white adults". The New England Journal of Medicine. 363 (23): 2211–9. doi:10.1056/NEJMoa1000367. PMC 3066051. PMID 21121834.
•  
• Veronese, Nicola; Li, Yanping; Manson, JoAnn E; Willett, Walter C; Fontana, Luigi; Hu, Frank B. (20106) "Combined associations of body weight and lifestyle factors with all cause and cause specific mortality in men and women: prospective cohort study", BMJ, v355. doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.i5855.
•  
• Harrington, Mary; Gibson, Sigrid; Cottrell, Richard (2009). "A review and meta-analysis of the effect of weight loss on all-cause mortality risk". Nutr Res Rev. 22 (1): 93–108. doi:10.1017/S0954422409990035. PMID 19555520.
•  
• Prospective Studies Collaboration (2009). "Body-mass index and cause-specific mortality in 900 000 adults: collaborative analyses of 57 prospective studies". The Lancet. 373 (9669): 1083–1096. doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(09)60318-4. PMC 2662372. PMID 19299006.
•  
• Chrysant, Steven G.; Chrysant, George S. (January 2013). "New insights into the true nature of the obesity paradox and the lower cardiovascular risk". Journal of the American Society of Hypertension. 7 (1): 85–94. doi:10.1016/j.jash.2012.11.008. PMID 23321407.
•  
• J., Rothman, Kenneth (2008). Modern epidemiology. Greenland, Sander, 1951–, Lash, Timothy L. (3rd edition, thoroughly revised and updated ed.). Philadelphia. ISBN 9780781755641. OCLC 169455558.
•  
• Banack, Hailey R.; Kaufman, Jay S. (May 2014). "The obesity paradox: Understanding the effect of obesity on mortality among individuals with cardiovascular disease". Preventive Medicine. 62: 96–102. doi:10.1016/j.ypmed.2014.02.003. ISSN 0091-7435. PMID 24525165.

Cherry picking. And smoking? Hmm

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Reality. Exercise overrated. Nutrition works best for health anyway. Long life mostly due to genes and diet.

I'll take both, thank you. My numbers are all lookin' good. Good luck w/ genes.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/02/210202085451.htm

 

2021 study

 

 

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Cherry picking. And smoking? Hmm

Speak for yourself. Smoking--Duh. You've missed the point.

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Speak for yourself. Smoking--Duh. You've missed the point.

Off topic. Data says about avg when young adult move to chubby later live longest.

 

So anymore than basic exercise a waste.

 

So hardcore exercise a waste of time and may shorten life.

Just now, Sparktrader said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/02/210202085451.htm

 

2021 study

 

BMI. Doesn't address the objections in the articles I gave you. Lead author has Chinese name, TVF Posters must suspect.

Just now, BigStar said:

BMI. Doesn't address the objections in the articles I gave you. Lead author has Chinese name, TVF Posters must suspect.

Racist comment.

Source:

Ohio State University

US source not China. 

Just now, Sparktrader said:

Off topic. Data says about avg when young adult move to chubby later live longest.

 

So anymore than basic exercise a waste.

 

So hardcore exercise a waste of time and may shorten life.

Quite on topic, seems off topic because you don't understand the point.

 

Your original point to which I responded wasn't "hardcore" OR "extreme." Off topic.

Just now, BigStar said:

Quite on topic, seems off topic because you don't understand the point.

 

Your original point to which I responded wasn't "hardcore" OR "extreme." Off topic.

I proved you wrong. Accept it.