Please help. Have to go to court to be given a fine for incorrect information on Special Tourist Visa Extension

[OliveD]

Hi everyone,

 

I was hoping for some pointers/advise on the below situation I find myself in.

 

The other day, I went to renew my special tourist visa for a further 90 days. I got confused and put the hotel information that I used for my initial visa application before entering Thailand. However, I was not staying at that hotel, because when I got here, I cancelled that hotel booking and I stayed with my partner at some accommodation provided by his workplace.

 

When I needed further proof of the accommodation, we approached his workplace and they were able to obtain the correct documentation. So then we went back the following day with new forms and evidence.

 

However, because the forms had conflicting information and because I wasn't staying at the hotel that I initially advised, they are saying that I need to go to court and pay a fine because what I did was illegal. I am worried about what this process looks like, because I am not familiar with the court system here. 

 

Does anyone have any advice for how to proceed with this or if you know how this court appearance/fine paying would look like?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[BritTim]

If there is a local agent for your immigration office, talk to them to see if you can avoid a court judgment. A fine imposed directly by the immigration office is no big deal. However, a court judgment could create some real issues down the line.

 

I am sure you know by now that falsifying the extension application forms was a very stupid act, and there is no need to belabour the point.

[OliveD]

Thanks BritTim, yeah it was really stupid.

 

Which do you think would be worse, leaving Thailand before my current visa expires and being on Thailand's blacklist or the court judgement?

 

The reason I ask is because when talking with the immigration officer yesterday, he was quite irate and it does not seem to be an option to get a fine imposed directly by the immigration office.

 

Thanks

[problemfarang]

Maybe try to talk with the immigration office and convince them to pay the fee to them? I also dont suggest to go to court, not a good idea. I dont think something serious will happen at the court but who knows. 

But you wrote 'initially advised' that worries me tbh. Because it sounds like you changed the place where Immigration told you to stay? that might cause a problem. other... if that wont be an issue i think court will just fine you and thats all. 

 

You can also take an advice of a lawyer... if you want send message to me i will give you my lawyer tel

Edited July 2, 2021 by problemfarang

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, OliveD said:

However, because the forms had conflicting information and because I wasn't staying at the hotel that I initially advised, they are saying that I need to go to court and pay a fine because what I did was illegal. I am worried about what this process looks like, because I am not familiar with the court system here. 

That is nonsense that they said. All they can do is fine you for not reporting your address.

They may of been trying to get extra money out of you.

[OliveD]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is nonsense that they said. All they can do is fine you for not reporting your address.

They may of been trying to get a extra money out of you.

Thanks ubonjoe,

I asked them whether I could pay the fine directly to them and they said no. They also said that they didn't even know how much the fine would be because only a judge could judge that.

 

[problemfarang]

I would trust JOE about this. If you already finished doing your things at immigration office, just walk and forget about it. As JOE said probably they wont do anything too. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by problemfarang

[OliveD]

13 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

But you wrote 'initially advised' that worries me tbh. Because it sounds like you changed the place where Immigration told you to stay? that might cause a problem. other... if that wont be an issue i think court will just fine you and thats all. 

 

You can also take an advice of a lawyer... if you want send message to me i will give you my lawyer tel

Sorry for the misunderstanding, there was no specific place that immigration advised me to stay. 

The issue was that I was confused about what documents I was supposed to submit and used the same hotel reservation documents that I used when I had initially applied for the visa. However, I had not stayed at the hotel in question, because my plans had changed after arriving. 

[problemfarang]

Just now, OliveD said:

Sorry for the misunderstanding, there was no specific place that immigration advised me to stay. 

The issue was that I was confused about what documents I was supposed to submit and used the same hotel reservation documents that I used when I had initially applied for the visa. However, I had not stayed at the hotel in question, because my plans had changed after arriving. 

 

Like JOE said it seems nothing to worry about as long as you already done with the paper work at the immigration. 

[OliveD]

Just now, problemfarang said:

Like JOE said it seems nothing to worry about as long as you already done with the paper work at the immigration. 

My visa is expiring on 13/07/2021, and the immigration office have advised that they will extend my visa for only 30 days, and then depending on the court decision, they will extend for additional time.

[Thomas J]

31 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I am sure you know by now that falsifying the extension application forms was a very stupid act, and there is no need to belabour the point.

I find this a bit funny in that in our village the person who is setting applying for a Juristic Entity entered numerous blatant falsifications.  The Land Office personnel just shrugged and said the only alternative was to personally sue the person.  In the USA knowingly filing false information to a governmental agency or for that matter a bank, is a criminal offense.  So I guess incorrect information on where a person is actually staying is serious offense and numerous deliberate falsification on forms to another government agency is just no big deal. 

[jvs]

An agent can fix this?It will cost you some money but they can probably help you take your problems away.

 

[aldriglikvid]

Seems extremely harsh. Do they actually check that I'm/We are staying the adress provided on the extension document? Or how did they find out? Directly when you applied for extension? 

[OliveD]

2 minutes ago, aldriglikvid said:

Seems extremely harsh. Do they actually check that I'm/We are staying the adress provided on the extension document? Or how did they find out? Directly when you applied for 

Apparently there is also an online system where hotels reports their foreign guests. And also they called the hotel.

[mvdf]

2 hours ago, OliveD said:

he was quite irate

 

... that you weren't clued in to the implied procedure (renewal request + เงิน)

 

[Scouse123]

3 hours ago, OliveD said:

Thanks BritTim, yeah it was really stupid.

 

Which do you think would be worse, leaving Thailand before my current visa expires and being on Thailand's blacklist or the court judgement?

 

The reason I ask is because when talking with the immigration officer yesterday, he was quite irate and it does not seem to be an option to get a fine imposed directly by the immigration office.

 

Thanks

 

 

Do yourself a big favour and just listen to what Ubonjoe said here.

 

Next, courts are not monsters and fines imposed by them are very reasonable. There will be NO BLACKLIST.

 

Cool down and stop getting worked up. All I see here is an Immigration officer pretending its a big deal to get plenty of money and I would resist. If they threaten court, just say OK.

 

A lot of them speak and understand far better English than they let on, it's a game. You say you have apologized for your error, if you have to go to court, so be it.

 

They will change tack if they don't see fear from you. I also would not waste money on a lawyer or agent for this. If court happens, and I doubt it, go with your Thai friend.

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Scouse123

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, OliveD said:

My visa is expiring on 13/07/2021, and the immigration office have advised that they will extend my visa for only 30 days, and then depending on the court decision, they will extend for additional time.

 

That is fine.

 

If Immigration want to play silly buggers, up to them. I think they are trying to frighten you for cash. I answered in another post what to do.

 

A court may give you 1,000 baht fine for ' face sake ' and that's it.

 

Take a chill pill.

 

There is no money around, so greedy immigration, lawyers and agents and so forth will look for the ' weakest in the pack ' and try make money from you.

 

Jungle law at the moment buddy!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Scouse123

[2 is 1]

2 hours ago, OliveD said:

Apparently there is also an online system where hotels reports their foreign guests. And also they called the hotel.

Really rare that some from imigration has time to call hotel and ask (is this farang stay in your place)! Somebody has report your stay at your "friend" place! Yes every hotel or house have to inform if farang is in they place. Leagaly they have 24 houer time to do that notication.

[ArcticFox]

Mummy always told me it was best to tell the truth or otherwise bad men would punish me and Santa would give me coal in my stockings at Christmas.

[DJ54]

Curious did you hassle them or politely explain..

[OliveD]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

Do yourself a big favour and just listen to what Ubonjoe said here.

 

Next, courts are not monsters and fines imposed by them are very reasonable. There will be NO BLACKLIST.

 

Cool down and stop getting worked up. All I see here is an Immigration officer pretending its a big deal to get plenty of money and I would resist. If they threaten court, just say OK.

 

A lot of them speak and understand far better English than they let on, it's a game. You say you have apologized for your error, if you have to go to court, so be it.

 

They will change tack if they don't see fear from you. I also would not waste money on a lawyer or agent for this. If court happens, and I doubt it, go with your Thai friend.

Thanks, I have calmed down now and am not leaving the country. My Thai friend talked with immigration and I will be going to court to pay a fine (they said around 3000-5000 baht) next week with my Thai friend.

[OliveD]

2 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Curious did you hassle them or politely explain..

A bit of both... So for the first half of the interview, I was polite and apologetic, but the immigration officer still seemed angry. But then I asked for my partner to come in and his behaviour probably fell under the "hassle" category. But when our Thai friend went to talk to them today, they were better but still have to go to court and then they will extend my visa.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, OliveD said:

Thanks ubonjoe,

I asked them whether I could pay the fine directly to them and they said no. They also said that they didn't even know how much the fine would be because only a judge could judge that.

 

A judge/court would not do anything until some police/govt agencies issues a citation/ticket to you....or if it was serious after you've been arrested and received a court date.   Then the court is involved.

 

I can just see the court personnel giving you strange looks when you show up and ask to be fined but the court has zero paperwork saying you committed any infraction/offence.

 

Until immigration issues you some paperwork saying your are being charged/being fined you have nothing to worry about.  It sounds like the immigration officer basically does not want to issue you an extension since you put incorrect information on documents and to get rid of you (i.e., hoping you don't come back) he is telling you to go to court....but the court has no reason to see you.  

[Liverpool Lou]

44 minutes ago, OliveD said:

I will be going to court to pay a fine (they said around 3000-5000 baht) next week with my Thai friend.

You will be going to court or going to an Immigration office?   Which court and do you have documentation showing the charges and the court date?

 

After you were charged and given a court date did the IO retain your passport?

Edited July 2, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[thailanddogerator]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

I am sure you know by now that falsifying the extension application forms was a very stupid act, and there is no need to belabour the point.

I never wrote a real address anywhere, the story is BS, it is clearly impossible to go to court for this !

 

[thailanddogerator]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is nonsense that they said. All they can do is fine you for not reporting your address.

They may of been trying to get extra money out of you.

 

 

Clearly the only one who understand things here...

 

 

[kennw]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is nonsense that they said. All they can do is fine you for not reporting your address.

They may of been trying to get extra money out of you.

Did you have a booking at the hotel that you first listed and do you have a record? Maybe you could use that documentation but explain circumstances changed But then you should have notified IO within 24 hrs of your new address 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, thailanddogerator said:

I never wrote a real address anywhere, the story is BS, it is clearly impossible to go to court for this !

We shall see. Recording your address when entering with a Certificate of Entry is part of the Covid control regulations. It is a different matter than just writing the address on the TM6 form. That might be why the immigration official is saying they cannot deal with it at immigration. Keeping track of foreigners entering Thailand with COE is considered a public health issue. Maybe I will be proved wrong, and it will turn out that the announced strict tracking of those entering the country will turn out to be nonsense.

Edited July 2, 2021 by BritTim

[brianthainess]

There is also a point of view that by putting false info on the forms and the officer not noticing, and then if he had done nothing and gone ahead, then when the officers superiors check His work, and found a mistake then He would be the one in trouble. just saying.

[jomtienisgood]

21 hours ago, jvs said:

An agent can fix this?It will cost you some money but they can probably help you take your problems away.

 

The agent can probably take away some of the problems but certainly some of your money too. 55555