Anyone know the story behind all the blackface I see around town?

[digbeth]

Thai literature from the Ayuddhaya period has a play based around 'Ngoh' (literally rambutan) but also means Sakai tribespeople from the south, the play in the most recent form is dated to around 1800s in the 2nd reign of the Bangkok era, in it the main character was cursed to have an appearance of the black sakai tribespeople, but turn out to be white and golden on the inside 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Smithson said:

American cultural influence is powerful sure, so is Chinese, Indian, and amazing...Thai. America is not the center of the world, even if ppl desperately want it to be. It seems many would like to colonize the world with American values and religious ideas. The OP has capitalized the word 'black', something that has started in the US and they are trying to export.

 

What happens in the US should stay in the US, the place is a awash with social problems that other developed countries don't have.

 

I don't buy the hill tribes bit either, they generally have white skin and are considered very attractive. If you look at old Thai painting sometimes you will see black men who really stand out, but I'm not sure what place they hold in Thai culture.

We're talking about one thing here. Not everything.

I think there are very strong clues that Thai minstrel type racial stereotyped stuff indeed  came from  American influence. 

Here is a way to almost prove it either way.

Did these Thai minstrel images with exaggerated big lips precede the cultural phenom in the US? I don’t know. If it did precede it that would be strong evidence against the American influence theory.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, digbeth said:

Thai literature from the Ayuddhaya period has a play based around 'Ngoh' (literally rambutan) but also means Sakai tribespeople from the south, the play in the most recent form is dated to around 1800s in the 2nd reign of the Bangkok era, in it the main character was cursed to have an appearance of the black sakai tribespeople, but turn out to be white and golden on the inside 

Big lips or not?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

But does that make it wrong?  Why should Thais (or any other country or culture) adhere to what's considered to be/not be PC in the USA, UK etc?  (Sorry if this is way too much off-topic!)

I wasn't even discussing that aspect of it.

My interest is the origin.

[ThLT]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not buying that. Look at the exaggerated lips. That's straight out of American minstrel show stuff.

 

From Spike Lee's Bamboozled. 

Lips, eyes, hair all look exactly like blackface.
Maybe came into Thailand during the Vietnam war. With GI's watching TV, or with pictures/magazines.

Thais thought it was "cute," without any racial intentions behind it. And now there are dolls sold on Lazada.

[digbeth]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Big lips or not?

google search would show tv adaptation which is pretty bad

[Jingthing]

Just now, ThLT said:

Lips, eyes, hair all look exactly like blackface.
Maybe came into Thailand during the Vietnam war. With GI's watching TV, or with pictures/magazines.

Thais thought it was "cute," without any racial intentions behind it. And now there are dolls sold on Lazada.

I think much earlier. 

Darkie toothpaste 1930s.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, digbeth said:

google search would show tv adaptation which is pretty bad

But that's a more modern depiction.

What would be telling is an ancient one.

[tifino]

is Medieval far back enough? 

 

 

[Smithson]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

We're talking about one thing here. Not everything.

I think there are very strong clues that Thai minstrel type racial stereotyped stuff indeed  came from  American influence. 

Here is a way to almost prove it either way.

Did these Thai minstrel images with exaggerated big lips precede the cultural phenom in the US? I don’t know. If it did precede it that would be strong evidence against the American influence theory.

And you are attributing that one thing to the US, almost desperately trying to find holes in ThLT's explanation, which sounds like what I was describing. You don't seem to have applied the same skepticism to your own theories.

[ThLT]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think much earlier. 

Darkie toothpaste 1930s.

Maybe started at that time. Further influence during the Vietnam might increased the trend.

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by ThLT

[orchis]

the second picture in the OP refers to a negrito group of people in southernmost Thailand: Sakai (Maniq). These statuettes are holding bags of money; good luck charms.

there was a Maniq child, Kanang, living at the court of Rama V ca. 1900.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniq_people

Edited July 10, 2021 by orchis

[Mai mee]

2 minutes ago, orchis said:

the second picture refers to a negrito group of people in southernmost Thailand: Sakai (Maniq).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniq_people
there was a Maniq child, Kanang, living at the court of Rama V ca. 1900.

looks a lot like the doll and statue to me...

[ThLT]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think much earlier. 

Darkie toothpaste 1930s.

Also, Darkie/Darlie is a Chinese company (by Hawley & Hazel, established in Shanghai in 1933). 

 

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, Smithson said:

And you are attributing that one thing to the US, almost desperately trying to find holes in ThLT's explanation, which sounds like what I was describing. You don't seem to have applied the same skepticism to your own theories.

Desperately? Are you having a laugh?

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Also, Darkie/Darlie is a Chinese company (by Hawley & Hazel, established in Shanghai in 1933). 

 

That found great success in Thailand. 

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, Mai mee said:

looks a lot like the doll and statue to me...

Not seeing the resemblance at all except dark skin color.

 

No

Big

Lips.

 

Dudes, the big lips are the giveaway.

Totally minstrel. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Jingthing

[Smithson]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Desperately? Are you having a laugh?

Almost

[Jingthing]

43 minutes ago, tifino said:

is Medieval far back enough? 

 

 

Yes.

But why did you post that?

Doesn’t look Thai at all.

The black figure is not minstrel.

[Jai Dee]

[quote]The rambutan calls for wealth Good Buddha is popular. The rambutan calls for wealth Worship is good for good fortune, especially people doing business, selling, worshiping the rambutan, calling for wealth, money, and gold to come and also have the virtues of mercy as well. For those who open a shop, they can set up worshiping the rambutan to call money in front of the shop. There is a Buddha image to call guests to call customers well. Easy to buy, easy to sell Chao Rambutan has a lot of experience in worshiping, especially a Chinese disciple who travels across the sea to bring Chao Rambutan to bring wealth back to worship and then produces astonishing power. For those who want good things to worship to enhance fortune and money, I recommend worshiping the rambutan to call wealth.

[/quote]

 

Source

 

[Jai Dee]

Off-topic troll and argumentative posts (and replies) have been removed.

[tifino]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

But why did you post that?

Doesn’t look Thai at all.

The black figure is not minstrel.

i must have just focussed moreso on far back black slavery angle in a generic sort of way... 

[KhaoNiaw]

The Maniq or Mani are an ethnic group of Thailand. They are more widely known in Thailand as the Sakai (Thai: ซาไก), a controversial derogatory term meaning 'slave' or 'barbarism'.^[2] They are the only Negrito group in Thailand and speak a variety of related Aslian languages, primarily Kensiu and Ten'edn. They have their own language, culture, and no alphabet.^[3]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniq_people}

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Now the real question is this "racist" or celebrating Black Lives Matter? 

or neither.

[Thomas J]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

or neither.

Liverpool, I am from the USA.  I can guarantee that the news media would make it one of the two.  And, I am pretty sure I know which one they would select. 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

Liverpool, I am from the USA.  I can guarantee that the news media would make it one of the two.  And, I am pretty sure I know which one they would select. 

 

But this is Thailand, not the US.

[Thomas J]

3 hours ago, JDJD said:

This forum never seems to amaze me! Businesses displaying pieces might mean Blacks are not allowed at the establishment. That would make sense. Maybe it's a big thing in China? I'm sure someone will actually know. Keep em coming. Thanks! 

Well if those were images that portrayed Russians with more reddish faces, or Chinese with slanted eyes and more yellowish tinge, there would not be an issue at all.  

 

[Thomas J]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

But this is Thailand, not the US.

That is true, however the fact that it is being brought up on the forum in Thailand is evidence that the USA culture has well I could use the words permeated but probably infected is just as good a choice the cultures worldwide. 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Denim said:

Then there are the zebras ? What are they all about ?

 

It's a well known fact* that zebras were indigenous to Thailand, but the Thais ate them all and the statues are a way of honouring their spirits.

 

 

 

 

 

*I may have just made that up though ????

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

That is true, however the fact that it is being brought up on the forum in Thailand is evidence that the USA culture has well I could use the words permeated but probably infected is just as good a choice the cultures worldwide. 

 

I would say that all it means is that a member here is trying to make it an issue when, in Thailand, it isn't.