65000 baht Financial requirement for Retirement Visa

[dsmiththailand]

I receive an annual payment from Merrill Lynch (401K provider) that is deposited into my USA bank account.  I am planning on doing a monthly transfer into my thai bank account but i was told that this would not be acceptable with the Thai immigration.  Has anyone have any experience as to what the Thai Immigration would find acceptable?  Thanks

[mtls2005]

Who told you this would not be acceptable? Was it an immigration officer? And did they tell you why it would be unacceptable?

 

While there is some variation in interpretation with some IOs, in some offices, the rule says "income, such as...". There is no requirement that the source of the income must be from a pension.

 

Yes, there have been a few reports about prickly IOs demanding "pension or else", sometimes in an effort to steer a customer towards the 800K option, or the marriage option, or the agent option.

 

As long as the monthly transfer is 65,000 or more, and shows as coming from outside of Thailand, this is sufficient.

 

I too receive one-time annual retirement annuity payout (in addition to SocSec), usually on the first business day of the year in January. I then wire transfer at least 65,000 baht each month. I've done two extensions so far (ext stay/ret-inc at CW) successfully. Imm wants to see my passbooks, and I provide a bank-issued summary letter of the twelve transactions.

[dsmiththailand]

8 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Who told you this would not be acceptable? Was it an immigration officer? And did they tell you why it would be unacceptable?

 

While there is some variation in interpretation with some IOs, in some offices, the rule says "income, such as...". There is no requirement that the source of the income must be from a pension.

 

Yes, there have been a few reports about prickly IOs demanding "pension or else", sometimes in an effort to steer a customer towards the 800K option, or the marriage option, or the agent option.

 

As long as the monthly transfer is 65,000 or more, and shows as coming from outside of Thailand, this is sufficient.

 

I too receive one-time annual retirement annuity payout (in addition to SocSec), usually on the first business day of the year in January. I then wire transfer at least 65,000 baht each month. I've done two extensions so far (ext stay/ret-inc at CW) successfully. Imm wants to see my passbooks, and I provide a bank-issued summary letter of the twelve transactions.

I was told that by a law firm in Pattaya today, as i am looking for a law firm or agent to assist me with changing a tourist visa to a retirement visa when i arrive in Thailand next month.  I was surprise to receive that response from them as what you have said matches up with what i have previously read online.  Sounds like I need to find a new law firm to deal with asap. Thanks

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, dsmiththailand said:

I was told that by a law firm in Pattaya today, as i am looking for a law firm or agent to assist me with changing a tourist visa to a retirement visa when i arrive in Thailand next month.  I was surprise to receive that response from them as what you have said matches up with what i have previously read online.  Sounds like I need to find a new law firm to deal with asap. Thanks

If changing from a tourist visa entry to a non-o visa income proven by way of transfers from abroad is not listed on immigration requirements. It only mentions proof of income from a embassy.

See number 6 here. 1151529811_ChangeVisaInstructions.pdf

The rules for a extension of stay based upon retirement state you  can show 2 or 3 months of 65k baht income for the first extension application.

 

[mtls2005]

Is it reasonable to assume that the document list to support the change to a Non-O was just not updated, when some embassies stopped issuing letters?

 

And that they do allow the proof of foreign transfers as equivalent?

 

Or was this done on purpose to steer people towards the 800k option?

 

I guess I'm asking if anyone (U.S., U.K. etc.) has made the change using the monthly foreign transfer method?

 

I've seen reports of people doing this but maybe I wasn't reading closely, or maybe they were from countries still issuing letters?

 

In any event thanks for surfacing this question as it may have helped me, and a neighbor immensely. Maybe time to move to the 800K method. at least as back-up.

 

 

[dsmiththailand]

9 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Is it reasonable to assume that the document list to support the change to a Non-O was just not updated, when some embassies stopped issuing letters?

 

And that they do allow the proof of foreign transfers as equivalent?

 

Or was this done on purpose to steer people towards the 800k option?

 

I guess I'm asking if anyone (U.S., U.K. etc.) has made the change using the monthly foreign transfer method?

 

I've seen reports of people doing this but maybe I wasn't reading closely, or maybe they were from countries still issuing letters?

 

In any event thanks for surfacing this question as it may have helped me, and a neighbor immensely. Maybe time to move to the 800K method. at least as back-up.

 

 

The law firm just stated that they will visit immigration tomorrow and confirm what the latest requirements is around the 65,000.  I will keep you updated.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Is it reasonable to assume that the document list to support the change to a Non-O was just not updated, when some embassies stopped issuing letters?

And that they do allow the proof of foreign transfers as equivalent?

Or was this done on purpose to steer people towards the 800k option?

I guess I'm asking if anyone (U.S., U.K. etc.) has made the change using the monthly foreign transfer method?

It may of not been updated intentionally.

I think the reason it is not shown it is due to question of how a persons apply for a the transfer could have done at least 2 monthly transfers since it can only be done with a tourist visa entry or visa exempt and you must apply with at least 15 days remaining on their entry or the 30 day extension.

I have seen no report of anybody being able to do the application for a non-o visa with 65k baht transfers.

FYI the requirements for a non-o visa for being married to a Thai does not show the transfer option for the 40k baht income option.

[Upnotover]

Rather than converting in Thailand can you not get a single non-O before you leave?  Aside for the need for the 40/400 insurance you would at least avoid the conversion step and go straight for the extension after your 90 days.

[dsmiththailand]

1 hour ago, Upnotover said:

Rather than converting in Thailand can you not get a single non-O before you leave?  Aside for the need for the 40/400 insurance you would at least avoid the conversion step and go straight for the extension after your 90 days.

I could but the thai embassy in Saigon is closed and also the government offices are closed for the next two weeks and even then no guarantee they will reopen again after the two weeks.  I will fly to Hanoi and get our tourist visa in two days and then fly out immediately, just in case Thailand decides to close its borders. 

[thailand49]

14 hours ago, dsmiththailand said:

The law firm just stated that they will visit immigration tomorrow and confirm what the latest requirements is around the 65,000.  I will keep you updated.

Red Flag!   Red Flag!  From my pass experience I live in Pattaya did a half dozen or more interviews with Attorneys when I first came to Pattaya, even went down a list of recommended Attorneys by the Embassy result all pretty much useless every interview there were problems and uncertainty I walked away with.  When an attorney tells you " they got to go down to immigration and check "  that is the time to cut your loses and run for the hills!  this is what I call learning as they go at your expense. 

 

Doing what you are doing take a bit of patience it is really a simple process that you can do yourself,  personally if in Pattaya you be better off using the place next door to Immigration than this lawyer!  RUN FOREST RUN!

[sghanchey]

14 hours ago, dsmiththailand said:

The law firm just stated that they will visit immigration tomorrow and confirm what the latest requirements is around the 65,000.  I will keep you updated.

Please do. I was under the impression that a Non-O required the 800,000 bank method only. 

[ubonjoe]

14 hours ago, Upnotover said:

Aside for the need for the 40/400 insurance you would at least avoid the conversion step and go straight for the extension after your 90 days.

 And it will only need to be valid for 90 days instead of the 1 year needed for a OA visa.

Some travel insurance policies will cover the medical insurance and covid 19 insurance requirements for the 90 days needed.

[kiteman9]

16 hours ago, dsmiththailand said:

 

I receive an annual payment from Merrill Lynch

 

My immigration office wants a letter from the social security and the veterans association stating the amount I receive each month. So a letter showing you receive an annual payment from Merrill Lynch should be what you need to back up where your funds are coming from.

[George K]

Loei Immigration also refuses anything but 800K baht deposit. I showed the Thai Govt. printout that stated other options, to the supervisor. She merely glanced at it and handed it back to me. Until our embassies grow a pair, and make the immigration offices follow their own laws, they will continue to write their own rules. 

[jomtienisgood]

17 hours ago, dsmiththailand said:

I was told that by a law firm in Pattaya today, as i am looking for a law firm or agent to assist me with changing a tourist visa to a retirement visa when i arrive in Thailand next month.  I was surprise to receive that response from them as what you have said matches up with what i have previously read online.  Sounds like I need to find a new law firm to deal with asap. Thanks

I wouldn't hire that Law firm.... 55555

[Jonathan Swift]

I have a non O retirement visa and have been doing exactly that for two years with no problem. I use Transferwise to send the 65,000 baht once a month to Bangkok Bank, which clears in one day, then if  necessary I use another account at Kasikorn Bank (they have a convenient phone app for international transfers) to send what I need back to the US, and that transfer also clears in one day. Kasikorn only charges 250 baht no matter how much you send, and it arrives at my US bank in US currency as an ACH deposit, and my bank charges no fee because the system does not recognize it as an international transfer. For the visa renewal I have to order one year's worth of bank statements from my bank, pay one hundred baht, and I get it in a week. I bring it on my renewal date along with everything else. I did all of my paperwork myself when converting from tourist visa to retirement. First they issue you a non immigrant visa, then after a certain amount of time you come back (I think 2 weeks) and they give you the retirement visa. It's not rocket science as long as you know the rules, and if you make a mistake, you just correct the mistake and then return to immigration with the necessary corrections. I was quite happy to not have given $800 to a law firm just to fill out forms. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Jonathan Swift

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

I have a non O retirement visa and have been doing exactly that for two years with no problem. I use Transferwise to send the 65,000 baht once a month to Bangkok Bank

The OP wants to apply for a non-o visa at immigration.

You have been doing one year extensions of stay (it is not a visa) based upon retirement using the 65 baht option proven by transfers into the country.

[Jonathan Swift]

58 minutes ago, kiteman9 said:

My immigration office wants a letter from the social security and the veterans association stating the amount I receive each month. So a letter showing you receive an annual payment from Merrill Lynch should be what you need to back up where your funds are coming from.

There's nothing to stop immigration employees from making up their own rules, but I use bank statements showing 67,000 baht deposits once a month, and that is supposed to be sufficient according to every reliable source of information, including what officials have all told me without exception. I have been doing it this way for 2 years, ever since my embassy stopped issuing income verification letters

[brianthainess]

self delete

Edited July 13, 2021 by brianthainess
deleted. post was about extension.

[mtls2005]

15 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have seen no report of anybody being able to do the application for a non-o visa with 65k baht transfers.

 

Thank you very much for this detail.

 

Just to re-confirm; people from countries whose embassies that continue to issue income letters, can convert to a Non-O with such a letter (per document list), and that some have reported success doing this recently?

 

Finally, clause 7 in the linked PDF mentions an "or" for the 800k and income letter...

 

What does this mean? How is it interpreted in practice?

 

[wwest5829]

17 hours ago, dsmiththailand said:

I was told that by a law firm in Pattaya today, as i am looking for a law firm or agent to assist me with changing a tourist visa to a retirement visa when i arrive in Thailand next month.  I was surprise to receive that response from them as what you have said matches up with what i have previously read online.  Sounds like I need to find a new law firm to deal with asap. Thanks

I relate what I have done for the past decade for my extension of stay here in Chiang Mai. My Social Security and my retirement annual Required Minimum Distribution from retirement (403b) funds are direct deposited into my US Fidelity Account. Monthly I transfer $2200.00 USD via Wise (previously Transferwise) to my Bangkok Bank Account. Wise, in making the transfer asks the reason for the transfer. One of the choices is for longterm living costs in Thailand. This assures that the transfer goes direct (not through an intermediary bank). Bangkok Bank logs it in as an FTT transfer. When it is time to renew the EOS, Bangkok Bank supplies the required statement reflecting the monthly 65,000 baht transfers has been met. I use an agency, which is more expensive than doing it yourself but they keep up with any "nuances" in changes at immigration. As related to you local immigration offices vary in requirement enforcement.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

That depends on your I.O. 

That paper is for a extension application. The discussion is about applying for a non-o visa at immigration.

[brianthainess]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

That paper is for a extension application. The discussion is about applying for a non-o visa at immigration.

I realized that and deleted my post

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

What does this mean? How is it interpreted in practice?

That is for the combination of money in the bank and proof of income.

Look at clause 6.

[Jonathan Swift]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

The OP wants to apply for a non-o visa at immigration.

You have been doing one year extensions of stay (it is not a visa) based upon retirement using the 65 baht option proven by transfers into the country.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, I am well aware of the status and details of my continued residency under my non O retirement visa and my yearly extensions, as I am also aware of all the forms and what they mean. I did the entire process myself from the beginning to end at Chaengwatthana in Bangkok, converting tourist visa to non immigrant, and from non immigrant to non O retirement, without help. I also navigated my return to Thailand during covid and quarantine rules, certificate of entry, insurance etc.  without any problem. If I sounded uninformed or confused rest assured I am not. The only important point here is that the transfer and bank statement income verification method is valid for the questioner's purposes, and accepted by immigration, as I have been doing it for going on 3 years.

[Jonathan Swift]

18 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Who told you this would not be acceptable? Was it an immigration officer? And did they tell you why it would be unacceptable?

 

While there is some variation in interpretation with some IOs, in some offices, the rule says "income, such as...". There is no requirement that the source of the income must be from a pension.

 

Yes, there have been a few reports about prickly IOs demanding "pension or else", sometimes in an effort to steer a customer towards the 800K option, or the marriage option, or the agent option.

 

As long as the monthly transfer is 65,000 or more, and shows as coming from outside of Thailand, this is sufficient.

 

I too receive one-time annual retirement annuity payout (in addition to SocSec), usually on the first business day of the year in January. I then wire transfer at least 65,000 baht each month. I've done two extensions so far (ext stay/ret-inc at CW) successfully. Imm wants to see my passbooks, and I provide a bank-issued summary letter of the twelve transactions.

Same same me, 2 years now, no problem. At times a less experienced employee may come up with some temporary nonsense, but a request for a supervisor usually clears that up. 

[Jonathan Swift]

1 hour ago, George K said:

Loei Immigration also refuses anything but 800K baht deposit. I showed the Thai Govt. printout that stated other options, to the supervisor. She merely glanced at it and handed it back to me. Until our embassies grow a pair, and make the immigration offices follow their own laws, they will continue to write their own rules. 

There are some immigration employees who for whatever illogical reasons are misinterpreting the law, or don't understand it, I had exactly what happened to you happen to me, in my case the supervisor corrected the employee. "Our embassies" have absolutely no standing or lawful basis to "make" the immigration offices do anything. They never have, never will, that is not their purpose. The only recourse when such problems occur is to go to a different immigration office. 

[ubonjoe]

49 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

The only important point here is that the transfer and bank statement income verification method is valid for the questioner's purposes, and accepted by immigration, as I have been doing it for going on 3 years.

When you started out by applying for a non-o visa you were able to get a proof of income from you embassy.

If you tried to do it now by showing transfers into the country it would not be accepted.

You have been applying for extension of stay using the transfers of 65k baht. The requirements for a non-o visa application and a extension of stay are not the same now.

This from the requirements to apply for a non-o visa that I posted a download link earlier in this topic.

"6. A letter of guarantee from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate that proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of monthly pension)"

[kiteman9]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Swift said:

There's nothing to stop immigration employees from making up their own rules, but I use bank statements showing 67,000 baht deposits once a month, and that is supposed to be sufficient according to every reliable source of information, including what officials have all told me without exception. I have been doing it this way for 2 years, ever since my embassy stopped issuing income verification letters

      My immigration office wants my bank statements and letters from the social security and the veterans administration stating the amount I receive each month. So a letter showing you receive an annual payment from Merrill Lynch should be what you need to back up where your funds are coming from.

[chilly07]

Have always thought that one flaw in the monthly income route is the ability to transfer the money back after getting it recorded as an FTT. That is why Immigration want to see your bank book. I keep my BB book for transfers in so that it is relatively clean for Immigration purposes then move lesser sums to another bank for day to day spending. I always take the other bank book to Immigration to show this if they ask but they never have. However yours is the first post I have seen that refers to a transfer back. I think this is dangerous as I'm sure Immigration read this website to see what we are up to. I hope I am wrong?