Senior Thai lung expert defends Sinovac vaccine against “biased” criticism

[Tanomazu]

It was not so long ago that the Thai Minister for Public Health, his excellency Anutin Charnvirakul, warned the Thai people to beware of dirty foreigners, who might bring the virus.

 

Now, that the dirty foreigners have developed the more effective MRNA vaccines, I do hope Mr Anutin can procure some for his people.

 

Though I suspect he will continue to favour the Chinese vaccines.

[placeholder]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

It was not so long ago that the Thai Minister for Public Health, his excellency Anutin Charnvirakul, warned the Thai people to beware of dirty foreigners, who might bring the virus.

 

Now, that the dirty foreigners have developed the more effective MRNA vaccines, I do hope Mr Anutin can procure some for his people.

 

Though I suspect he will continue to favour the Chinese vaccines.

So the Chinese aren't foreigners?

[Dogmatix]

15 hours ago, tlandtday said:

and how does a lung specialist suddenly become a virologist?  it's a little like getting an aircon guy to fix a broken piston...

That is part of the problem.  It is most likely that Sinovac helps prevent a certain level of sickness and death but no one knows how much, particularly against delta.  A government media service putting out personal musings unsupported by meaningful evidence by a doctor working in a peripheral but not directly related field just makes people even more suspicious of Sinovac.  There is precious little publicly available data on Sinovac vs other variants and virtually zero against delta.  A real immunologist, not the white haired old guy who is actually trained as a pediatrician, providing solid evidence of Sinovac's efficacy is what would be needed plus news of human trials started urgently to test Sinovac + AZ or Pfizer, rather than forcing people to trial the cocktail for them on the unsupported say so of medical deans who fear for their jobs if they say otherwise.  

 

Anyway they alrady lost the PR battle when they capitulated to the medics demands for boosters. Now Thai people are not listening to the noise made by the empy vessels, even though it might actually have some merit.

 

[Tanomazu]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

So the Chinese aren't foreigners?

Not in Thailand, no. The Thai linguist Theraphan Luangthongkum claims the share of those having at least partial Chinese ancestry at about 40 percent of the Thai population.

 

This is the case for Mr Anutin as well. Though of course Mr Anutin having Chinese ancestry has nothing to do with favouring Chinese vaccines over more effective vaccines developed by dirty foreigners.

 

In the quote you refer to Mr Anutin of course was referring to those with European ancestry, not Chinese.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Not in Thailand, no. The Thai linguist Theraphan Luangthongkum claims the share of those having at least partial Chinese ancestry at about 40 percent of the Thai population.

 

This is the case for Mr Anutin as well. Though of course Mr Anutin having Chinese ancestry has nothing to do with favouring Chinese vaccines over more effective vaccines developed by dirty foreigners.

 

In the quote you refer to Mr Anutin of course was referring to those with European ancestry, not Chinese.

Even though they don't speak the same language, eat the same foods, and mostly don't share the same religious beliefs, don't have much knowledge of each other's history, are about as different in personal behavior as 2 cultures can be, the Thais don't consider them foreigners because some generations ago they had a Chinese ancestor? Ridiculous. 

 

[Tanomazu]

9 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

There is precious little publicly available data on Sinovac vs other variants and virtually zero against delta. 

 

There is some data available:

 

"In clinical trials across the world, Sinovac and Sinopharm's inactivated virus vaccines have been shown to be 50% to 79% effective in preventing symptomatic Covid infection."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57845644

 

Compare that with Pfizer, 95% effective, and Moderna, 86% effective.

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

 

Those damn dirty foreigners. Forcing Mr Anutin to switch from Sinovac to dirty foreigner vaccines. They don't even shower!

 

[Dogmatix]

23 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

There is some data available:

 

"In clinical trials across the world, Sinovac and Sinopharm's inactivated virus vaccines have been shown to be 50% to 79% effective in preventing symptomatic Covid infection."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57845644

 

Compare that with Pfizer, 95% effective, and Moderna, 86% effective.

 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

 

Those damn dirty foreigners. Forcing Mr Anutin to switch from Sinovac to dirty foreigner vaccines. They don't even shower!

 

That's true but those were results of trials published independently by countries that imported Sinovac using different methodologies.  The company never published collated stage 3 trial results.  Those trials are out of date and none were against alpha, delta or other Greeks. What is totally lacking is any data of Sinovac vs delta or research into mixing and matching Sinovac which Thailand is now forcing on people without any human trials. Otherwise they won't get vaccinated.   

[Tanomazu]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Even though they don't speak the same language, eat the same foods, and mostly don't share the same religious beliefs, don't have much knowledge of each other's history, are about as different in personal behavior as 2 cultures can be, the Thais don't consider them foreigners because some generations ago they had a Chinese ancestor? Ridiculous. 

 

To Thais like Mr Anutin, 40% of Thais, the Chinese are the relatives in China that you visit on holidays.

 

They are not foreigners like those of European ancestry are foreigners. Blood is thicker than water, as they say.

[Fromas]

48 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

rather than forcing people to trial the cocktail for them on the unsupported say so of medical deans who fear for their jobs if they say otherwise.  

Disinformation

 

 

[Tanomazu]

18 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

That's true but those were results of trials published independently by countries that imported Sinovac using different methodologies.  The company never published collated stage 3 trial results.  Those trials are out of date and none were against alpha, delta or other Greeks. What is totally lacking is any data of Sinovac vs delta or research into mixing and matching Sinovac which Thailand is now forcing on people without any human trials. Otherwise they won't get vaccinated.   

Yes, in the West we have not seen data of Sinovac vs delta. Hardly surprising since even Pfizer only just started experiments to test effectivenes against delta.

 

There is noise coming out of China that "Researchers found that Chinese vaccines are somewhat effective in reducing the risk of symptomatic and severe cases caused by Delta, Zhong Nanshan, a epidemiologist who helped shape China's COVID-19 response, told reporters." But what "somewhat" means is still to be quantified with hard data.

 

All we know, it was based on analysis of infections in Guangzhou city, and Zhong told Reuters the results are preliminary and the sample size is small. Not exactly helpful.

 

Sinovac spokesman Liu Peicheng told Reuters preliminary results based on blood samples from those vaccinated with its shot showed a three-fold reduction in neutralizing effect against the Delta. He also did not provide detailed data.

 

However, even Chinese experts are saying that Sinovac is less effective against Delta:

 

"Antibodies triggered by two Chinese vaccines are less effective against the Delta compared with other variants, Feng Zijian, former deputy director at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, told state media last week.

 

What we do know:

 

Indonesia, which has reported record daily cases recently due to a surge in the Delta variant, saw hundreds of medical workers infected by the COVID-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac's shot, officials said earlier this month.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/are-chinese-covid-19-shots-effective-against-delta-variant-2021-06-29/

 

So no wonder Indonesia and Thailand are switching from Sinovac to dirty foreigner vaccines.

 

[lujanit]

Just another expert hypocrite.

[mommysboy]

He is right to condemn the critics whose evidence seems unscientific at present. This traditional vaccine may only be as effective as the flu jab , but that is still good enough for most people. In addition, the side effects appear much milder than with the novel vaccines.  It has its place as a workhorse.  Personally, I would prefer it.

[tlandtday]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:31 AM, DogNo1 said:

I think that the government has determined that the booster for people vaccinated with two Sinovac shots will be AstraZeneca or one of the mRNA vaccines, not a third shot of Sinovac.  He is probably correct that deaths have been prevented by a double Sinovac but there is much evidence that they didn't prevent serious illness.

Where is the hard data on these vaccines preventing hospitalizations.  First we were told they would prevent infection.  And when the virus mutated we were told they prevent death or hospitalization. Show us the data.

[tlandtday]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:58 AM, soalbundy said:

Because covid-19 affects the lungs perhaps.

So if someone gets a cancerous tumour in the mouth its okay to take the advice of your dentist without seeing an oncologist?  

[jayboy]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:31 AM, DogNo1 said:

there is much evidence that they didn't prevent serious illness.

Let's see it then.I have seen nothing to suggest that in the overwhelming majority of cases Sinovac doesn't prevent serious illness, hospitalization and death.Of course there's a risk of serious illness etc but it's very small as a careful study of reports from Indonesia confirms, notwithstanding the tragic deaths of a small number of double vaccinated doctors.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, tlandtday said:

Where is the hard data on these vaccines preventing hospitalizations

Easily available.Check out records of largely fully vaccinated countries like Israel, the UK and even the US where hospitalizations have shrunk to very small figures.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, tlandtday said:

So if someone gets a cancerous tumour in the mouth its okay to take the advice of your dentist without seeing an oncologist?  

Strangely enough dentists do spot throat cancers, of course he would send you to an oncologist. I saw a program about hospitals treating people with serious covid conditions in the UK, most had to battle with scarring of the lungs which reduced oxygen intake. No need to take my post personally.

[tlandtday]

20 hours ago, jayboy said:

Easily available.Check out records of largely fully vaccinated countries like Israel, the UK and even the US where hospitalizations have shrunk to very small figures.

???

[tlandtday]

21 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

okay if easily availble please present it to us..

 

[placeholder]

22 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Where is the hard data on these vaccines preventing hospitalizations.  First we were told they would prevent infection.  And when the virus mutated we were told they prevent death or hospitalization. Show us the data.

99% of COVID-19 hospital patients are unvaccinated

COVID-19 hospitalizations are skyrocketing in more than a dozen states.

The common denominator? The Director of the National Institutes of Health says data shows more than 99 percent of people in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated.

https://wsiltv.com/2021/07/15/99-of-covid-19-hospital-patients-are-unvaccinated/

[tlandtday]

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

99% of COVID-19 hospital patients are unvaccinated

COVID-19 hospitalizations are skyrocketing in more than a dozen states.

The common denominator? The Director of the National Institutes of Health says data shows more than 99 percent of people in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated.

https://wsiltv.com/2021/07/15/99-of-covid-19-hospital-patients-are-unvaccinated/

That's not what the famed yale doctor was saying a short while ago.... it's pretty unclear what is being refernced in your posting as they talk about some states skyrocketing so are they referring to a particular hospital or a particular state or nationally please elaborate. It was stated studies in a number of countries where is this data?

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

That's not what the famed yale doctor was saying a short while ago.... it's pretty unclear what is being refernced in your posting as they talk about some states skyrocketing so are they referring to a particular hospital or a particular state or nationally please elaborate. It was stated studies in a number of countries where is this data?

Is it really that difficult for you to type in the search phrase, say "99% of covid deaths are unvaccinated" or "99% of all covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated"? I give you permission to copy and paste these search terms and use them in your search. I promise I won't sue you for plagiarism.