Why should I inject a vaccine that could kill me when I have no risk to be sick with covid ? A Thai boy told me, what can I reply him to push for vaccination ?

[Jeffr2]

29 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

And you are pro vax, and looking for anything to amplify the vaccine. Please give it up.  Please

I want this pandemic to end.  Like the majority of us.  It won't until more are vaccinated.  It's hurting economies and killing people.  So yes, I'll amplify the benefits of the vaccines.  Just like all credible medical professionals do.

 

You should read this.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Weeds 10-29-21&utm_term=The Weeds

 

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

 

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”

 

A recent study found that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant are 63 per cent less likely to infect people who are unvaccinated.

[Jeffr2]

Sad some fall for the fake news websites.  Boggles my mind.  Trying doing a fact check before believing what you want to when you read that garbage.

 

And they admit the numbers are an under count, especially in the beginning of this pandemic.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-19-kids-cases-hospitalizations-deaths/8361479002/

 

Of the 73 million children in the U.S., fewer than 700 have died of COVID-19 during the course of the pandemic, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a Questionable Source has been removed.

[EVENKEEL]

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad some fall for the fake news websites.  Boggles my mind.  Trying doing a fact check before believing what you want to when you read that garbage.

 

And they admit the numbers are an under count, especially in the beginning of this pandemic.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/graphics/2021/10/08/covid-19-kids-cases-hospitalizations-deaths/8361479002/

 

Of the 73 million children in the U.S., fewer than 700 have died of COVID-19 during the course of the pandemic, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Face it you've admitted your only goal is to make believe covid is over. I see no creditable reason to vac my kid as does the majority of parents in the US. It's disturbing so many don't have the best interests of the children in mind but are only concerned with what is best for them for either financial or political reasons.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

And you are pro vax, and looking for anything to amplify the vaccine. Please give it up.  Please

The thing is, it's the anti-vaxxers who look to pick nits and operate by misdirection. How many times does some anti-vaxxer post re: transmission without acknowledge the huge difference in incidents of serious illness and deaths between the vaccinated and unvaccinated? Or post about the possible latent effects of vaccines, which has never been observed in any other vaccine, and not acknowledge the possibility of latent effects from covid, a phenomenon that has been observed in several other viruses?

[Jeffr2]

34 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Face it you've admitted your only goal is to make believe covid is over. I see no creditable reason to vac my kid as does the majority of parents in the US. It's disturbing so many don't have the best interests of the children in mind but are only concerned with what is best for them for either financial or political reasons.

What?  Show where I've said that.  Otherwise, BS.  I don't want to make believe it's over, I want it to BE over.  And anti vaxxers or those who spread misinformation are stopping progress towards that goal.  Like your link to a super dodgy website.  You really fall for those, don't you.

 

Vaccines take time for all to be comfortable with them.  Given time, more and and more are getting the jab.  And more and more children will also.  If you have the best interest of your child in mind, the jab is what you'll do.  Most docs are recommending it.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/10/14/more-than-1-in-3-parents-wont-let-their-kids-get-a-covid-vaccine-poll-finds-heres-what-could-change-their-minds/?sh=5eab9a646fdf

 

While a majority of parents either have or plan to vaccinate their children against Covid-19, a new Ipsos poll finds more than a third of parents of both younger and older kids are still opposed to letting them get the shot—but there are factors that could persuade them.

[Jeffr2]

Worth a read from a very credible media outlet.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/how-many-vaccinated-parents-will-vaccinate-their-kids/620191/

 

Parents tend to be skeptical of new vaccines. Whenever one is introduced, many of them are initially hesitant to adopt it. Take the varicella vaccine, for instance. Approved by the FDA in 1995, it protects against the virus that causes chickenpox, an extremely contagious, common, and unpleasant childhood infection. Even though the vaccine was highly effective and showed few side effects, uptake levels were initially low, with only 34 percent of eligible adolescents fully immunized by 2008.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

well, try and explain some of the tenets of fallacious reasoning which unfortunately many people unknowingly fall victime to.

 

1:  Asserting the truth in an argument.

2:  Proceeding from a false assumption. 

3:  Stacking the argument.

 

3 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

And you are pro vax, and looking for anything to amplify the vaccine. Please give it up.  Please

Your side of the debate is consistently refusing to provide rational debate and scientific evidence to support their opinions. The other side almost invariably links to evidence to support theirs.

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.  

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

On 10/30/2021 at 8:21 AM, gk10012001 said:

And you are pro vax, and looking for anything to amplify the vaccine. Please give it up.  Please

no equivalence whatsoever. childish mimickery further reduces this daft lost pseudo “cause”.as if that were even possible…….

 

“pro - vaxx” a silly term originating from crackpot cultish people trying in vain to “equalize” superstition with reason, when obviously it’s the polar opposite. we dont say pro- logic or pro- reason do we…..

 

vaxxing supported by EVERYTHING proper & gold standard medical science finds & reports, including the astronomically low risks, reduced even further by selecting an optimal vaxx for different risk.

 

dont leave home or use stairs, or electricity, if even the tiniest life risk is unacceptable.

staying home would also stop the unvaxxed spreading their proven larger viral load. go for it.

 

anti- vax backed by literally NOTHING from proper science & medicine.

like claiming pseudo flat earthers have an “equal” case to planetary scientists.

 

suspect many anti- vaxxers HAVE been vaxxed but simply enjoy trolling.

unvaxxed can also read accounts from long covid sufferers or dying unvaxxed begging for vaxx.

 

[Kwasaki]

Just talking to my Oz friend who won't get vaccinated, I can't convince him as yet to be vaccinated but working on it otherwise he cannot come Thailand to see me with his wife and boy when he born. 

So sad. 

[Scott]

On 11/3/2021 at 3:56 AM, Kwasaki said:

Just talking to my Oz friend who won't get vaccinated, I can't convince him as yet to be vaccinated but working on it otherwise he cannot come Thailand to see me with his wife and boy when he born. 

So sad. 

Best of luck.  I've found it helpful to not apply too much pressure.  In the end, it's a personal decision.  Your friend will have to accept that he may not be able to travel not only to Thailand, but perhaps not on any public transport, like airplanes, anywhere.   He also may end up unemployed, if vaccines are mandated by employers.  

 

I have a good friend who wouldn't/won't get vaccinated.  It infringes on his freedoms, in his opinion.  However, his wife recently gave birth and the prospects of infecting his newborn child had him rethinking his position.   He also works for a company that will soon require vaccination.  So, it's his decision to run the risk of infecting his newborn and the risk of not being able to support his new family. 

I am fully vaccinated and have had the booster, but I am not returning to Thailand quite yet.  I just can't face an almost 20 hours of flying with a mask on!  

[sirineou]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:56 PM, Kwasaki said:

Just talking to my Oz friend who won't get vaccinated, I can't convince him as yet to be vaccinated but working on it otherwise he cannot come Thailand to see me with his wife and boy when he born. 

So sad. 

As Scot said. it is a personal decision.that he needs to work his way through, Best that you make your case to him, but make sure to add "It's your choice :

   There is always a very small chance that he could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. The chance is not big enough to deter anyone from being vaccinated, but nonetheless it is there.

 Imagine if your friend was the unlucky one to have adverse reaction and you were the one to convince him, In his mind he could blame you, or you might even blame yourself. 

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

As Scot said. it is a personal decision.that he needs to work his way through, Best that you make your case to him, but make sure to add "It's your choice :

   There is always a very small chance that he could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. The chance is not big enough to deter anyone from being vaccinated, but nonetheless it is there.

 Imagine if your friend was the unlucky one to have adverse reaction and you were the one to convince him, In his mind he could blame you, or you might even blame yourself. 

Understood.  But the chances of him getting covid and perhaps dying or having serious effects is much greater.  Orders of magnitude greater.  Plus, we're not going to get out of this mess until more are vaccinated.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/04/europe/europe-covid-winter-who-projection-intl/index.html

 

Europe facing 500,000 more Covid deaths by February, WHO warns

"We are at another critical point of pandemic resurgence," Kluge said. He blamed two factors for the new wave; the relaxation of Covid-19 measures, and a lack of vaccination coverage in the Balkans and towards the east of the continent.

 

"Hospitalization rates in countries with low vaccine uptake are markedly higher and rising more quickly than in those with higher uptake," he said.

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, Scott said:

Best of luck.  I've found it helpful to not apply too much pressure.  In the end, it's a personal decision.  Your friend will have to accept that he may not be able to travel not only to Thailand, but perhaps not on any public transport, like airplanes, anywhere.   He also may end up unemployed, if vaccines are mandated by employers.  

 

I have a good friend who wouldn't/won't get vaccinated.  It infringes on his freedoms, in his opinion.  However, his wife recently gave birth and the prospects of infecting his newborn child had him rethinking his position.   He also works for a company that will soon require vaccination.  So, it's his decision to run the risk of infecting his newborn and the risk of not being able to support his new family. 

I am fully vaccinated and have had the booster, but I am not returning to Thailand quite yet.  I just can't face an almost 20 hours of flying with a mask on!  

Yeah I think he will come around when the baby is born, don't know whether his Oz govt mining job will apply mandated vaccines yet.

He make laugh he has the weirdest conspiracy theory about govts injecting you with mRNA nano- bots so I said you've had other injection before so get a Sinovac jab.

He said that many Scientist & Doctors had not been allowed to tell the truth. ????

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I think he will come around when the baby is born, don't know whether his Oz govt mining job will apply mandated vaccines yet.

He make laugh he has the weirdest conspiracy theory about govts injecting you with mRNA nano- bots so I said you've had other injection before so get a Sinovac jab.

He said that many Scientist & Doctors had not been allowed to tell the truth. ????

Tell him to turn off social media!!! LOL.

 

I've got a friend who's a very successful businessman.  Rich.  He falls for these fake YouTube videos.  Finally, I told him not to send them to me any more.  I gave him info that they were all fake, but he just can't wrap his head around the truth.  He really wants to believe masks don't work.  Amazing.  But even though he's rich, he's not educated....

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

As Scot said. it is a personal decision.that he needs to work his way through, Best that you make your case to him, but make sure to add "It's your choice :

   There is always a very small chance that he could have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. The chance is not big enough to deter anyone from being vaccinated, but nonetheless it is there.

 Imagine if your friend was the unlucky one to have adverse reaction and you were the one to convince him, In his mind he could blame you, or you might even blame yourself. 

I wouldn't blame myself its the right of advice to give but still his decision.

Also his wife is getting her jabs after the babies born.

He is a younger and healthy friend and he was asking me how I was after the nano-bots were put in me, I said really like it i can can do 100 press ups again in no time. ????

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Tell him to turn off social media!!! LOL.

 

I've got a friend who's a very successful businessman.  Rich.  He falls for these fake YouTube videos.  Finally, I told him not to send them to me any more.  I gave him info that they were all fake, but he just can't wrap his head around the truth.  He really wants to believe masks don't work.  Amazing.  But even though he's rich, he's not educated....

Your probably right about that his favorite thing to watch when he was in Thailand was YouTube. 

[Scott]

13 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah I think he will come around when the baby is born, don't know whether his Oz govt mining job will apply mandated vaccines yet.

He make laugh he has the weirdest conspiracy theory about govts injecting you with mRNA nano- bots so I said you've had other injection before so get a Sinovac jab.

He said that many Scientist & Doctors had not been allowed to tell the truth. ????

Be careful about falling into the trap of trying to explain a lie.  A lie is a lie and you will end up in a circular argument.  I went for a haircut today and the lovely, older lady who was cutting my hair hadn't been vaccinated.  She doesn't trust them, but she's scared witless about catching the virus.  She never removes her mask indoors. 

 

I explained that people our age just don't have the same immune system we did when we were young.  We have two parts to our immune system, the innate and the adaptive immunity.  The innate one is always on alert and it fights anything and everything that doesn't belong, but it doesn't always have the right 'ammunition' for a particular infection.   The adaptive one is the one that starts loading us up with what works to fight the virus.  When you're young, that adaptive immunity starts pretty quickly; at our age it doesn't and we are overwhelmed.  

 

We talked for about 10 minutes after she was done and I answered a few questions about vaccines -- she doesn't want one of those that are going to change her DNA--so I told her J&J won't do that.  I then told her, unless she's going to have children, she didn't have to worry about her DNA!  She gave a hearty laugh.  I'll check back when I get my next haircut.

 

 

[Salerno]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I said really like it i can can do 100 press ups again in no time. ????

Don't forget to tell him you can now make free phonecalls ... without a phone but only on the 5G network ... and you're looking forward to picking up Triple J to listen to the hottest 100 next year,

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, Scott said:

Be careful about falling into the trap of trying to explain a lie.  A lie is a lie and you will end up in a circular argument.  I went for a haircut today and the lovely, older lady who was cutting my hair hadn't been vaccinated.  She doesn't trust them, but she's scared witless about catching the virus.  She never removes her mask indoors. 

 

I explained that people our age just don't have the same immune system we did when we were young.  We have two parts to our immune system, the innate and the adaptive immunity.  The innate one is always on alert and it fights anything and everything that doesn't belong, but it doesn't always have the right 'ammunition' for a particular infection.   The adaptive one is the one that starts loading us up with what works to fight the virus.  When you're young, that adaptive immunity starts pretty quickly; at our age it doesn't and we are overwhelmed.  

 

We talked for about 10 minutes after she was done and I answered a few questions about vaccines -- she doesn't want one of those that are going to change her DNA--so I told her J&J won't do that.  I then told her, unless she's going to have children, she didn't have to worry about her DNA!  She gave a hearty laugh.  I'll check back when I get my next haircut.

 

 

I think with this kinda virus older people should take the jabs as you say at least there's a choice of types.

I was happy enough to have any vaccine available although our village even with a large population has been relatively clear of outbreaks only the odd 2 or 3 who had family come back from Bkk.

My Asthma is well under control and I hope my Pfizer nano-bots keep me safe. ????

Don't know when boosters will be available in Thailand.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Understood.  But the chances of him getting covid and perhaps dying or having serious effects is much greater.  Orders of magnitude greater.  Plus, we're not going to get out of this mess until more are vaccinated.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/04/europe/europe-covid-winter-who-projection-intl/index.html

 

Europe facing 500,000 more Covid deaths by February, WHO warns

"We are at another critical point of pandemic resurgence," Kluge said. He blamed two factors for the new wave; the relaxation of Covid-19 measures, and a lack of vaccination coverage in the Balkans and towards the east of the continent.

 

"Hospitalization rates in countries with low vaccine uptake are markedly higher and rising more quickly than in those with higher uptake," he said.

I agree,

in fact I believe I said the same thing in my post.

[Scott]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I think with this kinda virus older people should take the jabs as you say at least there's a choice of types.

I was happy enough to have any vaccine available although our village even with a large population has been relatively clear of outbreaks only the odd 2 or 3 who had family come back from Bkk.

My Asthma is well under control and I hope my Pfizer nano-bots keep me safe. ????

Don't know when boosters will be available in Thailand.

Yeah, you have to feel sorry for those guys tracking all those nano-bots.  There have been about 7.16 billion doses of vaccine given.  That's a lot of tracking!!

 

That's why I try not even engage in any discussion about some of the conspiracies. 

 

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Don't forget to tell him you can now make free phonecalls ... without a phone but only on the 5G network ... and you're looking forward to picking up Triple J to listen to the hottest 100 next year,

He thinks the mRNA injection is a product of the trillionaire men who want to control the population of the world known as the men in the Grey coats.

I've told him the men in black will take care of them. ????

[Scott]

If your friend has a baby on the way, it's a bit more urgent to get vaccinated.  Babies have a less well developed immune system and the lungs aren't strong enough to withstand much infection.  On the bright side, newborns are usually pretty well sheltered and new parents aren't usually out-and-about as much.  

 

If the mother has been vaccinated (or infected and recovered), she will pass some immunity to the baby through breastfeeding. 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/wondering-about-covid-19-vaccines-if-youre-breastfeeding-202109032584#:~:text=• When a person gets,against COVID-19.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

I agree,

in fact I believe I said the same thing in my post.

I'll try to find the article, but a pediatrician said the same thing about vaccinating his child.  The odds of his kid having a reaction was minuscule compared to the odds of him getting covid and getting sick.

[Kwasaki]

32 minutes ago, Scott said:

If your friend has a baby on the way, it's a bit more urgent to get vaccinated.  Babies have a less well developed immune system and the lungs aren't strong enough to withstand much infection.  On the bright side, newborns are usually pretty well sheltered and new parents aren't usually out-and-about as much.  

 

If the mother has been vaccinated (or infected and recovered), she will pass some immunity to the baby through breastfeeding. 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/wondering-about-covid-19-vaccines-if-youre-breastfeeding-202109032584#:~:text=• When a person gets,against COVID-19.

My Oz friend wife wants to get vaccinated after babies born I don't want to interfere other than tell him his darft not to get the jabs. 

In the part of Oz outside Brizbain they live not many people have been vaccinated and there's  nobody anywhere near them that they know of that has caught covid which I guess just fuels his darft conspiracy.

[Scott]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

My Oz friend wife wants to get vaccinated after babies born I don't want to interfere other than tell him his darft not to get the jabs. 

In the part of Oz outside Brizbain they live not many people have been vaccinated and there's  nobody anywhere near them that they know of that has caught covid which I guess just fuels his darft conspiracy.

I don't know that I'd mention it him or not, but those are the communities that are at high risk.  They do get hit, but they tend to get hit well after the busier, more populated areas.  

 

I grew up in a very rural area and people were anti-mask, anti-vax and pretty sure it was a hoax.  Long after most places were over the worst, it hit them.  And it hit them hard.  They had poorer health services available and greater distances to get to them.  My considerably younger neighbor, a truck driver, got it and died a slow and miserable death.  

At least he is strongly considering getting the vaccine.  

 

[Danderman123]

The obvious answer: to avoid being infected by a disease that has killed over 4 million worldwide.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

The obvious answer: to avoid being infected by a disease that has killed over 4 million worldwide.

Unofficial numbers put it up as high as 17MM.  Nobody really knows.