Anyone else tired of the nonsense, and contemplating leaving Thailand?

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, JomtienRay said:

I'm staying..

lived and had my own business in Thailand for many years. 

Thai wife, 5 kids..

I'm retired and divorced now.. family all live in Aus.

I moved us all to Aus about 13 years ago for the kids education, which in hindsight, was the only positive in the move.. 

The 10 years there were for me, the most stressful time of my life.. my wife turned into a narcissistic psychopath, believing and following advice from all the new Thai ladies she formed a group with, who were mostly old jealous bar girls who all wanted to be the "P"..

I'm 74 and underwent 10 years of medical trauma in Aus.. chronic heart failure, 9 operations to remove malignant cancer tumours, Chem X 5 times, radiotherapy X 3 times, chronic kidney failure.. the list goes on..

During this time, my wife firmed an opinion, based on the expert advice of he Thai friends, that she should not assist me in anyway, and wait for my certain death.. inherit everything and have a good time.. I was hospitalised 6 times with serious illnesses, and she chose not to visit me once..

Well.. thru perseverance, excercise, diet and medical assistance, I survived, much to her chagrin..

Retired now in Thailand last 3 years..

Spend about 6 months in Esarn in the farm, and 6 months in my condo on Jomtien beach.

Thru my 30 odd years living in Thailand, I've seen many government's come and go.. many changes in immigration etc, 3 coups.. 

AND.. at the end of the day, nothing much has changed for me here, over that time.

Have a new gf who causes me no stress and takes care of me very well.. a few great expat friends, and many Thai friends and ex colleagues..

And a GREAT life style..

Thank you Thailand..

I believe this govt WILL change within the foreseeable future, and life will continue and improve, after covid..

No greener pastures for me mate.. ????????????????????????????????

 

Post of the day! Thank you.

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Then that doesn't seem hostile after all.???? Then they found out she wasn't in fact a Viet but most likely a Thai, as accompany so many farang to Vietnam, with the same job class.

 

Wrong. Working girls don't always appear like working girls. Smarter ones often don't. All AseanNow members know that.

I was referring to the nasty, unfriendly, cold stares we would get from strangers, on the street, and in public. It was constant and incessant, and not pleasant. My wife and I both agree. We never have a need to return to Vietnam, for a half dozen good reasons. Way prefer Thailand. Way prefer the Thai people. When we approached them, they would immediately start in with Viet with my wife, as she has this look that could easily be interpreted as Viet or Chinese. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Too much covid discussion, too many differing views from different perspectives, round and round we go. Disappointed this has become another covid discussion!! If covid is all you guys can find to stimulate  conversation then indeed life must be bordering on the unbearable!!

I agree. Be great if posters could keep corona discussion to the subforum specifically for that subject.

It's boring, IMO.

[gejohesch]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

There might be an element of envy, or resentment. But, I think it is mostly an astonishing lack of curiosity about the outside world, or anything outside their little cliques?

In my wife's family, I can say that at least half of the women are "taken" by farangs. In her village of 1,000 inhabitants, there seems to be dozens of women "taken" by farangs - especially Swiss guys (much admiration : they have loads of cash). If there is an element of envy by the Thai men of foreigner males taking so many of the Thai women, I have not seen any of it. I think like so many things with the Thai culture, as long as it does not directly offend them or hurt them, they absolutely don't care. Especially if they gain sthg in the bargain, like free drinks and food and entertainment when being with the farangs. I cannot see any trace of national honour on that count either.

 

That was more a reply to a previous message.

 

About the "astonishing lack of curiosity", I 100% agree. I would add "total lack of intellectual curiosity". This is not limited to the lower class, I have had sufficient years working in a large Thai organisation to know that mid and upper class people are exactly the same. They live in a nationalist sort of bubble. Sometimes, it's nearly like a "Thai über alles" attitude, which manifests in various shades, softer with lower class, harder with mid-higher class. It probably comes from the fact that Thailand was never colonised (although Thailand had to pay a heavy price to the colonial powers to achieve that, but this is of course never mentioned in the national myth) and a very poor education.

 

This brings me to looking again at my very confused feelings about Thailand and Thai people. It's a mixture of love and fascination and disgust too.

 

A few above have discussed the respect / no respect part of the farang experience : I lost much of my respect when I started driving a car and a motorbike around the country, and after my years of working experience.

 

Some above also mentioned the toxic political and administrative environment. Personally, I can cope with it. It does not affect me in my every day life.

 

Maybe what really discourages me spending more than 4-6 months a year in Thailand is the near impossibility of engaging in a 2 minutes interesting discussion with any Thai person. There are exceptions to this of course. I admire and enjoy some aspects of the Thai culture, like their molam events (often a lot of fun), but to my taste there is far too much of it centered on an obsession with a deviated version of buddhism. And frankly, the cultural heritage of that country is minimal compared to so many other countries (mostly outside SE Asia).

 

Finally, I find the climate rather brutal overall.

 

Bottom line : if I did not have a very lovely woman and a large and pleasant house in Thailand, I would scrap that country once and for all. And in any case, I would feel rather depressed if I had to spend more than a few months a year in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Then that doesn't seem hostile after all.???? Then they found out she wasn't in fact a Viet but most likely a Thai, as accompany so many farang to Vietnam, with the same job class.

 

Took my new Thai wife on holiday once ....... she was a total c&^% the whole time.

So I never took my Thai ladies to other Asian countries after that.

There were always plenty of local ladies to choose from.

Saved me the air fare, and the locals were always more enthusiastic.

[Sparktrader]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Took my new Thai wife on holiday once ....... she was a total c&^% the whole time.

So I never took my Thai ladies to other Asian countries after that.

There were always plenty of local ladies to choose from.

Saved me the air fare, and the locals were always more enthusiastic.

What she do?

[BigStar]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I was referring to the nasty, unfriendly, cold stares we would get from strangers, on the street, and in public. It was constant and incessant, and not pleasant. My wife and I both agree. We never have a need to return to Vietnam, for a half dozen good reasons. Way prefer Thailand. Way prefer the Thai people. When we approached them, they would immediately start in with Viet with my wife, as she has this look that could easily be interpreted as Viet or Chinese. 

But the bias is that she's probably not Viet or Chinese as you're obviously tourists, and tourists with young Asian women are probably with Thai women.

 

Locals can perceive small cues that foreigners can't. Sometimes we'll see a pic in the news forum of "a Chinese" found passed out or something and immediately our Sherlocks wonder, how did they know he's Chinese? But it's obvious if you know the subtle differences in dress and appearance. I don't need to wonder.

 

If you approached them, they might well try initially to speak Viet to be sure. In Bali, my gf was obviously not Indonesian, but they all tried Indonesian first.

 

And as I noted, my Western friends report no such nasty, unfriendly, cold stares when they're with their Vietnamese wives or gf. And again, "nice" Vietnamese women, seemingly unconcerned about this supposed "hostility," seem FAR less reluctant to date a Westerner (really "date") than do "nice" Thai women.  

 

I like both Thais and Vietnamese. However, I can speak no Vietnamese, so that's quite limiting. My friend fluent in Vietnamese has quite a great time with the ladies over there, has good Vietnamese friends (who've looked out for him), and loves the place. Vietnamese are less friendly than Thais, true. But Thai friendliness is always suspect, for obvious reasons. On the other hand, Vietnamese generally (generally) seem more rational, confident, hard-working, have more sense of gratitude, and are somewhat more trustworthy (somewhat).

Edited August 3, 2021 by BigStar

[BritManToo]

Just now, Sparktrader said:

What she do?

Didn't like the room, didn't like the resort, didn't want to go to the beach, didn't want to go on a boat trip, was too tired for sex, always wanted the sea food platter (at 10x the price of any other item on the menu) then left it ........... all the usual nonsense when the lady thinks they own you.

[spidermike007]

10 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Took my new Thai wife on holiday once ....... she was a total c&^% the whole time.

So I never took my Thai ladies to other Asian countries after that.

There were always plenty of local ladies to choose from.

Saved me the air fare, and the locals were always more enthusiastic.

Fascinating. My woman loves to travel. Been to India, Burma, Vietnam twice, Bali, Laos, Malaysia, Singapore and several times to the US, and she loved every minute of each trip. She cannot wait to depart Thailand once again. Neither can I!!! It pays to fine one with an open mind. Just another virtue of a younger woman. 

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Didn't like the room, didn't like the resort, didn't want to go to the beach, didn't want to go on a boat trip, was too tired for sex, always wanted the sea food platter (at 10x the price of any other item on the menu) then left it ........... all the usual nonsense when the lady thinks they own you.

Hope you got rid of her. She sounds like a bummer, and she sounds like she was taking you for a ride. 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Vietnamese are less friendly than Thais, true. But Thai friendliness is always suspect, for obvious reasons.

I don't believe I've ever been anywhere where I was hit on more than Saigon.

Couldn't even sit in the park reading a book without a girl coming up and asking if I'd like to see her room. Not only the park, but the coffee shop, the restaurants, or just walking down the street. 

[Pracha Duang]

I think you might spend too much time on Thai Visa.

 

What xenophobia? Sure, there is a small group of hi-so Thais that would prefer farang be banned from Thailand. But this isn’t so much xenophobia as it is elitism. It’s not about race or nationality, it’s about wealth. There are just as many elitists like this in Spain and in the US and in every country on Earth!! At least the Thais don’t try to hide it!! Reality is that 99% of Thais love foreigners. You, as a white male from the most powerful country in the world,  should be particularly aware of this. Give me a break about xenophobia lmao. 

As for corruption, Thailand has always been corrupt. That is quite literally the appeal of Thailand! It’s the lack of rules, the fun that comes from the lack of rules,  the sense of freedom, and the fact that you know you can always bribe your way out of trouble no matter what you do that is one of the major selling points of this country. Particularly for those that come from rigid Western societies like the US that are laden with rules and laws and governments that spy on them. The day Thailand stops being corrupt is the day that everyone leaves because it will no longer be fun. Fun is literally the main reason expats move here. Otherwise, given that you’re from the US, why on Earth did you not just retire with your Thai wife in Hawaii? The US has amazing places for retirement and is generally an awesome country so it really makes no sense that you would come all the way to Thailand and then become disenchanted with it because it’s not a woke democracy that is forced to be politically correct all the time.
 

And let’s be honest, what has actually changed in Thailand since covid for retirees that are married? You obviously aren’t hanging out at the bars given that you’re married right? So what’s actually different here? You literally have empty beaches to enjoy all to yourself. You are now an extremely valued customer everywhere you go due to lack of tourists. Property has taken swan dive in value to the point where beach front mansions are now affordable. Thailand has upped its online delivery game in a big way where you can just have kegs and crates of wine doorstep delivered. All the local farmers and fishermen are selling direct to customer so fresh organic produce and fish has never been cheaper. You have the entire country to yourself pretty much. 

Thailand post-covid is like paradise for retirees that are married. I honestly don’t know what more you could want  but I suspect your problems are mostly internal and that you won’t find happiness whenever you go.

I recommend  mediation daily and to dig a bit deeper as to what is truly bothering you. Thailand remains awesome in my books. US is also awesome so I would check out Hawaii if you’re over Thailand. Spain sucks tbh.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

It's a mixture of love and fascination and disgust too.

Hmmmm. I loved Thailand and was sometimes annoyed, or boggled, and angry when I saw casual cruelty to animals, but never disgusted. I've seen actual disgusting things in other countries, and IMO nothing in Thailand I've seen rises to that level.

 

24 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

Maybe what really discourages me spending more than 4-6 months a year in Thailand is the near impossibility of engaging in a 2 minutes interesting discussion with any Thai person.

Never had the slightest inclination to have a discussion with a Thai man, and had other things on my mind with a Thai woman.

Any urge I had re discussions was taken care of by a session on TVF.

 

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe I've ever been anywhere where I was hit on more than Saigon.

Couldn't even sit in the park reading a book without a girl coming up and asking if I'd like to see her room. Not only the park, but the coffee shop, the restaurants, or just walking down the street. 

The ho's are extremely friendly. Love how they ride up on their motorbikes and accost you as well. Our snowflakes might not like that, however.

 

I found that ordinary respectable "nice" non-mercenary girls CAN be friendly, rather than neutral as VNs generally are, if you're friendly to them and seem a bit interesting, as for a long-term relationship that might go somewhere. Generally speaking. I have an acquaintance in BKK who regularly picks Thai office girls for a free short-time as well. It helps to be younger and good-looking. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Pracha Duang said:

As for corruption, Thailand has always been corrupt. That is quite literally the appeal of Thailand! It’s the lack of rules, the fun that comes from the lack of rules,  the sense of freedom, and the fact that you know you can always bribe your way out of trouble no matter what you do that is one of the major selling points of this country. Particularly for those that come from rigid Western societies like the US that are laden with rules and laws and governments that spy on them. The day Thailand stops being corrupt is the day that everyone leaves because it will no longer be fun. Fun is literally the main reason expats move here.

Well said.

 

Unfortunately, LOS was well on the way to being a sanuk devoid country by the time I left for good. Didn't help that I lived my last year in the least sanuk city in LOS- Chiang Mai; the black hole of fun. IMO they should put up signs at the airport and all roads entering Chiang Mai- Warning: fun devoid zone.

[Sparktrader]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well said.

 

Unfortunately, LOS was well on the way to being a sanuk devoid country by the time I left for good. Didn't help that I lived my last year in the least sanuk city in LOS- Chiang Mai; the black hole of fun. IMO they should put up signs at the airport and all roads entering Chiang Mai- Warning: fun devoid zone.

Yes its a boring city. On tripadvisor they claim its great.

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

But, I know the language is harder in Spain. But, I could adapt and learn. It would be infinitely more fun than learning Thai. Frankly, there is nothing about the Thai language I like. Nothing. Spanish sounds like music or poetry to me in comparison. And using the same alphabet is immensely easier, in addition to not having to deal with the ridiculous tones.

Mere bigotry of the sort that motivates many of your other complaints. "Adapt and learn" sounds so good except it seems your efforts to adapt and to learn Thai haven't been very successful. 

 

I had a great time learning Thai.???? I read my lesson then I had a lot of friendly ladies helping with practice as we enjoyed a few beers together, daily, by the beach. Best time I've ever had learning a language, in fact.

 

You don't need to read Thai to get along well in daily life and have fun joking around with Thais. 

 

There's nothing "ridiculous" about tones, but there is something ridiculous about your attitude. Again, it's merely your own mental problem projected onto Thailand.

 

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You seem to get huge credit for trying to speak Spanish, even if it is very imperfect. I do not get any of that here. Nunca. Nada. Zero. You do not pronounce it perfectly here, we have no idea what you are saying! And there is no effort made to attempt to figure it out. Lame. Very lame. That gets very old. 

Right, pronunciation is critically important in a tonal language, duh.

 

Why would you need a little pat on the back and gold star by your name every time you try to eat your broccoli? Means nothing. Man up and get it right.

 

No point in trying to figure out gibberish, which might turn into yelled gibberish. I'm with the Thais. Lame, very lame not to just learn to say it correctly (for which you have a wife to help) rather than wasting people's time and looking like an idiot. Gets old for them, yes.

 

[In Full Agreement]

 

On 7/31/2021 at 8:34 PM, driver52 said:

If I had family there I'd be tempted to go for a camper van and make the most of the weather by driving to Central America in the winter months......you could even be brave and try some of South America

 

You would be a brave man indeed to drive from the USA to either Central America or South America.   Not saying it hasn't been done but what a drive that'd be.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

 

You would be a brave man indeed to drive from the USA to either Central America or South America.   Not saying it hasn't been done but what a drive that'd be.

 

 

Great. Some blokes done South America on bikes.

[chalawaan]

20 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes its a boring city. On tripadvisor they claim its great.

Tripadvisor is for the elephant pants wearing set who'd wai a soi dog. 

I chose CM deliberately to stay OUT of trouble, the fun is (was) a cheap hours flight away, it's worked well so far...

[Tanomazu]

2 hours ago, siftasam said:

Tanomazu, so sorry to hear what's happening to Spain. It's 15 years since I've been there.

 

I would look to buy in a still traditional country area quite close to the sea, golf (for social reasons as much as anything), and good mountain walking.

 

Every week on 'eyeonspain.com' newsletter I see properties that look lovely and are not too pricey. Brit owners want to sell quickly,. although I can't think why as Spain has a very good record of COVID vaccination.

 

What is one allowed to say about the influx of immigrants situation in Europe and the UK? Lawful and unlawful immigrants.

 

What you say reminds of beautiful Venice as portrayed I'm sure extremely accurately in the very fine series of Inspector Brunetti novels by the gifted American  Donna Leon. She writes so convincingly, about the seemingly 'endemic' corruption too.

 

Whatever happens, I won't go back to England. I love it too much (or at least what it was). It will survive without me.    (It will still have my taxes, of course!)

 

 

The Supermarkets in Spain now have East European and African sections. The ubiquitous Senegalese fake Rolex vendors abound, as do African prostitutes. Ever since the influx of Romanians burglaries have increased.

 

You are right, if you choose a close-knit village or golf course resort you will of course avoid most of that, until you go to the sea-side or more frequented places.

 

The properties are still amazing, and it is not coincidence that Ronaldo and Saudi Royalty buy villas in Marbella. However, they come at a price that is considerably higher than in Thailand.

 

The weather is still among the best in Europe, albeit you will have to contend with 40 degrees in Andalucia and many other parts, often without aircon.

 

So yes, if you have to go to Europe, then Spain or Portugal are the best choices, most likely, perhaps with parts of Italy.

 

It's just the social issues seem a lot worse than Thailand, for all the greater poverty.

[BigStar]

56 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

If there is an element of envy by the Thai men of foreigner males taking so many of the Thai women, I have not seen any of it. I think like so many things with the Thai culture, as long as it does not directly offend them or hurt them, they absolutely don't care. Especially if they gain sthg in the bargain, like free drinks and food and entertainment when being with the farangs. I cannot see any trace of national honour on that count either.

Very true. Farangs who weren't in the least envied in their home countries do love to think they're being envied here. And resented for stealing the best women, when actually they've ended up with the least desirable by Thai male standards. Thais may think the woman fortunate if she'd being well-supported and would approve if one of their own family members could enjoy such support. 

 

1 hour ago, gejohesch said:

Maybe what really discourages me spending more than 4-6 months a year in Thailand is the near impossibility of engaging in a 2 minutes interesting discussion with any Thai person.

Depends on what you're interested in. Interested in their families, histories, and businesses, you can discuss all you want to. If you like character, Thais can be great characters with some amazing stories. And I find them always fun to joke around with.

 

On the other hand, they'd likely find it's impossible to have an interesting discussion with you for more than 30 seconds.

 

And I find discussions back home the most boring. There's usually not much discussion: it's mostly listening to people talking about themselves and their mundane suburban existences and voicing inane opinions about this and that, rants about politics. So I'd prefer not to spend more than a month, max, back home once every few years.

 

1 hour ago, gejohesch said:

Finally, I find the climate rather brutal overall.

Climate's great, love it except during rainy season it tends to rain in the afternoon when I'm finally ready to go out. Had a nice walk on the beach just today for a bit o' Vitamin D. COVID resistance! ????

 

[Sparktrader]

59 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Didn't like the room, didn't like the resort, didn't want to go to the beach, didn't want to go on a boat trip, was too tired for sex, always wanted the sea food platter (at 10x the price of any other item on the menu) then left it ........... all the usual nonsense when the lady thinks they own you.

Maybe she dont like you

[gejohesch]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmm. I loved Thailand and was sometimes annoyed, or boggled, and angry when I saw casual cruelty to animals, but never disgusted. I've seen actual disgusting things in other countries, and IMO nothing in Thailand I've seen rises to that level.

 

Never had the slightest inclination to have a discussion with a Thai man, and had other things on my mind with a Thai woman.

Any urge I had re discussions was taken care of by a session on TVF.

 

I think I was "off target" when I said "disgust". It would rather be like "despising" - I hate to say it, I know it sounds awful, but I'm being honest with myself here.

[leba]

It's so funny that some people even need to talk about the fact that they might leave hahaha...

if I didn't know anything about my life as those "men" I would prefer to shutup...

 

 

[Tanomazu]

6 hours ago, JomtienRay said:

I'm 74 and underwent 10 years of medical trauma in Aus.. chronic heart failure, 9 operations to remove malignant cancer tumours, Chem X 5 times, radiotherapy X 3 times, chronic kidney failure.. the list goes on..

During this time, my wife firmed an opinion, based on the expert advice of he Thai friends, that she should not assist me in anyway, and wait for my certain death.. inherit everything and have a good time.. I was hospitalised 6 times with serious illnesses, and she chose not to visit me once..

 

Nice to see you were able to pull through. I hear these stories a lot of Thai partners basically abandoning their foreign partner, and not just sick or old partners, 50 year old guys too that are healthy.

 

I do often wonder if Thai women are more mercenary as the stereotype suggests, and less faithful.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Maybe she dont like you

I'm not sure women really like men at all.

But that one liked me enough to have a son with me, then leave her daughter with me. And still turns up to have sex with me, when my gf isn't around. I gave up worrying about what women thought of me a long time back, as long as they're prepared to have sex with me, that's good enough.

 

If they didn't want our money they'd probably choose to live alone or in a house filled with cats. I think they might be right, I'm coming round to their way of thinking but filling my house with rabbits.

 

And that's what's great about Thailand, and why I'm not thinking of leaving. The Thai women really want our money, unlike the UK women whom the UK government pays to live alone.

Edited August 3, 2021 by BritManToo

[Whale]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Fascinating. My woman loves to travel.

OK OK after 15 pages of you gushing about your wife I have become quite bored of it.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Whale said:

OK OK after 15 pages of you gushing about your wife I have become quite bored of it.

Don't be unkind, his much younger and more attractive educated, white skinned wife from a wealthy Chinese hi-so family is different and really does love him for himself.

[Sparktrader]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure women really like men at all.

But that one liked me enough to have a son with me, then leave her daughter with me. And still turns up to have sex with me, when my gf isn't around. I gave up worrying about what women though of me a long time back, as long as they're prepared to have sex with me, that's good enough.

 

If they didn't want our money they'd probably choose to live alone or in a house filled with cats. I think they might be right, I'm coming round to their way of thinking but filling my house with rabbits.

 

And that's what's great about Thailand, and why I'm not thinking of leaving. The Thai women really want our money, unlike the UK women whom the UK government pays to live alone.

They like shopping and stuffing around