Jump to content

What's all this On-Grid, Off-Grid, Hybrid stuff all about. Solar systems demystified.


Recommended Posts

Excellent and very informative write up.

I am still trying to get my head around #3 off-grid hybrid. At first glance it doesn't make sense at all. It is a hybrid system and it IS connected to the grid, so why the off-grid name?

This was the source of much confusion for me, but it is just a bad name of an otherwise good system.

A much better name would be "grid supported hybrid", but I guess we better stick with off grid hybrid for now.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

good work crossy.  an interesting subject that i feel i should learn more about..........

 

we live in hua hin (often sunny), have a 4 bedroom villa with no trees around (so plenty of sun falls onto the roof) and have an average electric bill of 2000 / month (we dont use AC much).  We are connected to the grid through a 3 phase system, that feeds our small moo baan.

 

which system would be best for us and how much would it cost?

 

how many years of usage do you think it would take before we recouped our initial investment?

 

do systems go wrong much, and therefore need a lot of fixing?

 

we have had some cheap solar lights in the garden for a year or two and i have been impressed with their reliability and power 

 

great topic mate - and thanks in advance if you can offer any guidance

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

@Crossy, on your Sofar inverter am I right in saying that in a PEA power cut you only get power on the Essential Power (UPS) Circuit?

 

Can you slave multiple inverters together?

 

Yes, you are correct, if the mains is off then you only get power from the UPS output, and it's limited to 3kW.

 

On the grid side there's no problem having as many inverters as you like in parallel, but going over 10kW may invoke the wrath of PEA. On the UPS side I did ask Sofar support about parallel operation but never got a satisfactory response, I will remind them, their man (Forest) is pretty good.

 

The Huawei units that @Thaifish has may be able to support full power on the UPS side as it seems they have a separate switching unit, have a look at his thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, UKJASE said:

good work crossy.  an interesting subject that i feel i should learn more about..........

 

we live in hua hin (often sunny), have a 4 bedroom villa with no trees around (so plenty of sun falls onto the roof) and have an average electric bill of 2000 / month (we dont use AC much).  We are connected to the grid through a 3 phase system, that feeds our small moo baan.

 

which system would be best for us and how much would it cost?

 

how many years of usage do you think it would take before we recouped our initial investment?

 

do systems go wrong much, and therefore need a lot of fixing?

 

we have had some cheap solar lights in the garden for a year or two and i have been impressed with their reliability and power 

 

great topic mate - and thanks in advance if you can offer any guidance

Don't bother - with the little power you use, the payoff is quite long. If you however want to help reducing green house gases, every little thing helps!

 

One thing most installers fail to tell their customers is that after installing solar, the consumption will go up. Another important part is the actual vs. theoretical yield is worlds apart - during the hot period of the year, the output is easily 30 to 50 percent lower due to clouds and rainy days. And comes the dry season with lower temps, the yield jumps - the reverse of what we need since we run AC's a lot

 

BTW - you are lucky to live in H-H, we have 3 installers here, good competition gives great prices.

 

 

Aug_20.JPG

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

Don't bother - with the little power you use, the payoff is quite long. If you however want to help reducing green house gases, every little thing helps!

 

One thing most installers fail to tell their customers is that after installing solar, the consumption will go up. Another important part is the actual vs. theoretical yield is worlds apart - during the hot period of the year, the output is easily 30 to 50 percent lower due to clouds and rainy days. And comes the dry season with lower temps, the yield jumps - the reverse of what we need since we run AC's a lot

 

BTW - you are lucky to live in H-H, we have 3 installers here, good competition gives great prices.

 

 

Aug_20.JPG

Very nice explanation Crossy, I self have a hybrid system but my experience about HH is not as you described.

From the 3 installers I contact was there one who never answer, the second let me come to his shop while nobody stay there, and the third gives me a quotation but when I let him know I like to buy the batteries by myself, I never get an answer anymore.

That's why I decided to do it myself, with satisfactorily with one exception, the wi-fi plugs are impossible to get configured.

And as mentioned before about aftersales service....don't ask MUST.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, UKJASE said:

have an average electric bill of 2000 / month

I think that's quite a lot, suppose it depends on the size of your family lol

how many kWh do you use each month? is it say an electric shower that uses most of the power? try solar hot water in that case?

why do you have 3 phase? I removed a 3 phase system in France, I think they're crazy in this day and age....

Up the Boro!! ????

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Oddly enough I wish we'd installed 3-phase. We don't need it for our load, we are quite happy on a single-phase 15/45 meter, but because the most common kind of grid failure (at least for us) is loss of one phase (and it's always the one we are on). With a 3-phase supply there are often still 2 good phases to use and if you have an automatic phase selector then you probably wouldn't even notice.

 

Our place in Delhi had 3-phase, next to the TV were 3 outlets, one on each phase. Select the "best" phase for the TV to work properly.

Yes, I'm in the same situation, induction cooking 6kW, Electric Boiler 70 ltr, Micro wave/oven combination 2 kWh. etc etc, but 1 phase.

I remember when i come here where I live now, I ask for 3 phase but the electricity company was not willing to help me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

With a 3-phase supply there are often still 2 good phases to use and if you have an automatic phase selector then you probably wouldn't even notice.

yeah interesting but like here for example, you'd be paying 3 times the monthly standing order for starters!

I'd rather put that money into batteries, etc

It's also interesting to hear what is important to folks if your supply goes down. TV is a brainwashing medium for me most of the time ???? PC is pretty boring without internet, I'd rather do some exercise like going out on my bike and can always make a cuppa with a gas cooker lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

induction cooking 6kW

that's a good example, bonkers to me! my whole supply is 6kVa and I can run a kettle, a microwave and a halogen set top cooker simultaneously without the system tripping! Disclaimer: not in Thailand lol

Edited by driver52
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

This is great. Were looking to get off grid ourselves and I had no idea where to start.

I seen a place selling PVCs at our local market but they seemed to be for water pumps when I was trying to ask about powering the home etc in my broken Thai.

Anyone aware of a one stop shop online for purchasing said supplies and more importantly getting  advice about whats right? We have every known device to man eating up power and AC is pretty much on most of the time so bills are big. Complete noob!

TIA

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, tinot said:

This is great. Were looking to get off grid ourselves and I had no idea where to start.

I seen a place selling PVCs at our local market but they seemed to be for water pumps when I was trying to ask about powering the home etc in my broken Thai.

Anyone aware of a one stop shop online for purchasing said supplies and more importantly getting  advice about whats right? We have every known device to man eating up power and AC is pretty much on most of the time so bills are big. Complete noob!

TIA

 

Why not start a separate thread?

 

Tell us what you want to do, offset your power bill or go totally off grid (maybe with grid backup).

 

Do a rough power budget, what you want to power, also your rough energy consumption, you can get the latter off your power bill.

 

It's not really rocket science if you are a competent DIYer or you could go with a contractor (add $$$).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm expecting to be 'off grid' - cost wise, but for < ฿50 a month to stay conx w/PEA, it really doesn't make sense to be 'technically' off grid.  Simply conx doesn't mean you have to use.

 

With hybrid system, you get to control import, export, battery use/charging.  If your inverter or other part of your system has an oops, nice to have something to hold you over till sorted.

 

That diesel genny that has been idle for over a year, might not be cooperative when needed.  Then again, if you have way more money to play with than myself, and your solar generator is fully charge, well done.   Or your EV has V2L capabilities, just break out those extension cords.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Why not start a separate thread?

 

Tell us what you want to do, offset your power bill or go totally off grid (maybe with grid backup).

 

Do a rough power budget, what you want to power, also your rough energy consumption, you can get the latter off your power bill.

 

It's not really rocket science if you are a competent DIYer or you could go with a contractor (add $$$).

Will have to do that.

 

Who's good (contractor wise - National)?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

There is fifth way to have solar, where you install small off grid system in the same house that you have a grid, and then have a switch where you can choose to draw from solar or from grid.

 

I see an automatic switch on Lazard’s (ATS Automatic Dual Power Transfer Switch 2P ) that will automatically switch when the batteries turn off.

 

Amorn solar has a battery kit for 19000 THB, get a second panel your out 25 k, and earning 2 kWh pr day, so you looking at a pay back time of about 2500 days. Not too bad, and you have a little emergency power in case of power out.

 

I do have a couple of questions I hope the forum can answer

 

Does the switch legally count as a off-grid system??

I have a small UPS so I won’t get interrupted during the switch, but can a UPS handle if the sinus waves from the grid don’t match with the ups sinus.??

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Elik said:

 

I do have a couple of questions I hope the forum can answer

 

Does the switch legally count as a off-grid system??

I have a small UPS so I won’t get interrupted during the switch, but can a UPS handle if the sinus waves from the grid don’t match with the ups sinus.??

 

I suggest you start a separate thread to discuss this situation.

 

But generally, what you are proposing will work just fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Very good explanation Crossy.  Thanks as ever ????

We're just at the point of having a contractor supply and install a Hybrid system sufficient to offset our monthly bills (three phase: around 3,500 bht) and provide charging of a (they told me today) soon-to-arrive MG4.  From the prices I've seen so far it looks like about an 8 year payback (depending on future electricity prices) although I hope that if the job is done properly the value of the house will improve and provide some compensation.

Planning to visit one of the two Fully Charged Live Shows when I'm over in England this April/May.  If the events are anywhere as good as their YouTube channels it will be very interesting.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 3 months later...
On 8/20/2021 at 11:13 AM, Crossy said:

Our place in Delhi had 3-phase, next to the TV were 3 outlets, one on each phase. Select the "best" phase for the TV to work properly.

Imagine the wiring... Great thread BTW. Had a visit  from PEA yesterday; they want  me to go  ON grid with a generator. While my requirements match On grid hybrid.

 

And I am  3 phase, current bill  is 10k.

Edited by Ben Zioner
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/20/2022 at 4:20 PM, Elik said:

There is fifth way to have solar, where you install small off grid system in the same house that you have a grid, and then have a switch where you can choose to draw from solar or from grid.

 

I see an automatic switch on Lazard’s (ATS Automatic Dual Power Transfer Switch 2P ) that will automatically switch when the batteries turn off.

 

Amorn solar has a battery kit for 19000 THB, get a second panel your out 25 k, and earning 2 kWh pr day, so you looking at a pay back time of about 2500 days. Not too bad, and you have a little emergency power in case of power out.

 

I do have a couple of questions I hope the forum can answer

 

Does the switch legally count as a off-grid system??

I have a small UPS so I won’t get interrupted during the switch, but can a UPS handle if the sinus waves from the grid don’t match with the ups sinus.??

 

 

I would clasify that as not a fifth way but the very first way.

You have solar panels and an inverter and an ATS but that system only wortks during sunlight hours.

If you want you can add charge controllers and batteries so you can have stored solar electric for night time use.

 

All other systems are based on this and quite neatly put into a single box which is wrongly, in my opinion, called an inverter.

Variations on this "inverter" are quite popular with a grid connection which does away with the ATS and can even alow feedback into the grid which PEA will stop you doing if they find out.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, Pink7 said:

You have any good alternatives than the typical hybrid inverters as off grid backup?

 

Pink

Sorry to jump in here.

The alternative is easy and plentiful.

  • you could get a low frequency inverter* which runs off a 48v DC supply..
  • Solar charge controlers and batteries to give you your 48v supply.

* An inverter in this instance is a device which creates a mains AC voltage from a lower DC voltage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


  • Topics

  • Latest posts...

    1. 0

      Woman Clings to Husband's Car in Furious Confrontation Over Alleged Affair

    2. 10

      Thailand Live Monday 11 November 2024

    3. 32

      I just lost my iphone? What should I do next?

    4. 0

      Thai Man Arrested after Slapping Russian on Bangla Road

    5. 0

      Fire Destroys Grocery Store Near Mae Ramat Market, Causing 4 Million Baht in Damages

    6. 10

      Thailand Live Monday 11 November 2024

    7. 155

      What is one thing you learned from lefties?

    8. 31

      Harris, Biden camps blame each other for loss

  • Popular in The Pub


×
×
  • Create New...