U.S. Housing Prices Explosion Making Repatriation a Less Realistic Option for Many?

[Jingthing]

Expanding on the expat theme here, American expats in Thailand that may want / need to leave Thailand for a myriad of reasons can always go back to the US whether they can afford to live there or not.

But there are other country options that do require visa qualification.

 

Here is a dramatic example.

 

A beautiful new unit in a nice area in one of the most desirable and cooler weather locations in the Philippines.

 

 

 

600 dollars.

 

In almost all of the US there are no apartments at all for 600 dollars not to even dream about a nice new place in a lovely area.

 

600 sounds expensive? This expat youtuber can steer you to safe clean liveable townhouse units as low as 100 dollars in Cavite province. Or pay 200 to 300 for better  

 

Obviously not as nice as this 600 unit but still good basic safe clean shelter.

 

Both areas accessible to Manila.

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Want to spend 860 for an urban penthouse in a safe smaller city in Colombia?

Year round spring like weather.

 

 

Or a lower end option.

160 dollars.

South side of the same city.

Hotter weather. Not as safe as the north side.

Up to you.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jingthing

[meechai]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I will pass at engaging with you any further on this issue as there is clearly no value in it.

Classic ????  Now if we were also spared all your sensationalized wealth of no first hand experience anti USA stories that would be

something to look forward to

[Jingthing]

The so called "free" market will never solve this.

 

https://nlihc.org/resource/shortage-affordable-available-and-accessible-rental-homes

 

The Shortage of Affordable, Available, and Accessible Rental Homes

Sep 30, 2021

 

NLIHC’s annual The Gap: A Shortage of Affordable Homes report helps quantify the shortage of affordable and available homes for the lowest-income renters in the U.S. In the report released in March 2021, NLIHC found that there are only 37 affordable and available homes for every 100 extremely low-income renters. There is a shortage of nearly 7 million affordable and available homes for the 10.8 million extremely low-income renter households across the country. As a result, 70% of these households are severely housing cost-burdened, spending more than half of their incomes on rent and utilities.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The so called "free" market will never solve this.

 

https://nlihc.org/resource/shortage-affordable-available-and-accessible-rental-homes

 

The Shortage of Affordable, Available, and Accessible Rental Homes

Sep 30, 2021

 

NLIHC’s annual The Gap: A Shortage of Affordable Homes report helps quantify the shortage of affordable and available homes for the lowest-income renters in the U.S. In the report released in March 2021, NLIHC found that there are only 37 affordable and available homes for every 100 extremely low-income renters. There is a shortage of nearly 7 million affordable and available homes for the 10.8 million extremely low-income renter households across the country. As a result, 70% of these households are severely housing cost-burdened, spending more than half of their incomes on rent and utilities.

It's a good thing the two-million extremely low-income renters we imported last year have no negative affect on the market. 

[Jingthing]

The existence of those 80 dollar a month liveable townhouses in urban areas of Philippine provinces interests me. Entire families live in such units which would usually mean more than one financial contributor. While if I moved there I would be more interested in perhaps a 400 dollar place of course to Americans an 80 dollar a month rent sounds fantastically cheap. But as these are in the Philippine economy they are not seen as that ridiculously cheap by locals.

I am wondering relatively speaking what the American equivalent to 80 dollars would be in an average level American city. I really don't know but my assumption is still pretty low. To me that points out the core problem. Very little supply of very basic housing that pretty much everyone even with minimum wage job or low social security can easily afford and still have money for all other basic human needs.

 

Yes I know there are many homeless or living in cardboard structures in the Philippines.

 

But I'm making the assumption that a Filipino in the provinces with a full time job like fast food worker could pay 80 dollars for rent.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

You could pay $80 or less a month here out in the provinces. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

I just looked up salaries for a service crew worker at Jollibees in the Philippines 

 

242 dollars a month.

Under typical rental affordability ratios of rent at one third salary yes such a worker should qualify for a 80 dollar rental.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I just looked up salaries for a service crew worker at Jollibees in the Philippines 

 

242 dollars a month.

Under typical rental affordability ratios of rent at one third salary yes such a worker should qualify for a 800 dollar rental.

That higher math gets a little rugged huh? 

[Rimmer]

An off topic baiting post has been removed

[Jingthing]

Getting back to the math which could be applied to the worker in the 80 dollar Filipino apartment or an American on a lower social security check who at one time managed to qualify for a lower end apartment.

 

If the rents are going up astronomically say for example 40 percent over two.years the income increases aren't nearly meeting that

 

So as detailed before many people will still be able to hang on for some period of time but there will be a vicious personal price in deprivation of all other spending categories.

 

So full homelessness is the extreme end result of that price squeeze. 

 

A much bigger group is in the earlier stages of that suffering downward spiral.

 

Relating directly to the the topic why would most lower wealth / income expats CHOOSE to return to a country offering them such a <deleted> poor supply of housing options? Even if they could initially barely qualify for some substandard unit where will they be in five years given the trends?

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[EVENKEEL]

Time to put up some 400 sq ft studios for the old broke retired folks. Put the rent at say $400./mo. A very doable operation and could be a money maker if the gov would cut the red tape on building permits and make it profitable for the investor.

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Time to put up some 400 sq ft studios for the old broke retired folks. Put the rent at say $400./mo. A very doable operation and could be a money maker if the gov would cut the red tape on building permits and make it profitable for the investor.

That kind of thing is simply not happening to any meaningful degree.

We as citizens must deal with the realities as they actually exist.

Not fantasies that are very unlikely to happen.

I mentioned before a hopeful trend of tiny house communities.

But alas its extremely difficult to get zoning approval for such projects out of fear of declining property values and fear mongering about crime risk.

The truth is that owners / the more moneyed people in power are much more interested in fighting against such affordable housing efforts than supporting them.

 

Money number one.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[Yellowtail]

31 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Time to put up some 400 sq ft studios for the old broke retired folks. Put the rent at say $400./mo. A very doable operation and could be a money maker if the gov would cut the red tape on building permits and make it profitable for the investor.

There is not way to to do that and meet any code requirements, at least not in the kind of areas the OP is limited to. 

[Jingthing]

Bottom line: FUBAR

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesnonprofitcouncil/2021/09/07/there-is-no-easy-fix-for-the-affordable-housing-crisis/?sh=3301ba9173b7

 

There Is No Easy Fix For The Affordable Housing Crisis

 

Although housing is a basic human need, affordable housing is increasingly difficult to attain for many Americans. 

[Jingthing]

This video is informative because it highlights that this housing affordability crisis is NATIONAL in scope. It's not limited to internationally famous big cities, glamorous resorts, or near the beach locations.

 

Of course within that there are of course still localized variations.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jingthing

[impulse]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

There is not way to to do that and meet any code requirements, at least not in the kind of areas the OP is limited to. 

I think that's a lot of the problem.  Housing codes that are meant to benefit the haves at the expense of the have nots. 400sq ft is perfectly livable for a single person or a couple.  Quite tolerable for a small family (especially if the choice is nothing or choosing between food and rent.)  But illegal in most places.  Hence, the Tiny Home movement to change those laws.  I'm not a big fan of Tiny Homes of 100-400sq ft, but I am a huge fan of reasonable sized homes on the smaller end.

 

What I also haven't seen discussed is the massive purchases of entire neighborhoods by hedge funds.  Turning a basic necessity (like housing) into a financial product.  Just like they've been doing with health care.  

 

You'll own nothing and be happy...  Or you can go pound sand.  Up to you.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

I think that's a lot of the problem.  Housing codes that are meant to benefit the haves at the expense of the have nots. 400sq ft is perfectly livable for a single person or a couple.  Quite tolerable for a small family (especially if the choice is nothing or choosing between food and rent.)  But illegal in most places.  Hence, the Tiny Home movement to change those laws.  I'm not a big fan of Tiny Homes of 100-400sq ft, but I am a huge fan of reasonable sized homes on the smaller end.

 

What I also haven't seen discussed is the massive purchases of entire neighborhoods by hedge funds.  Turning a basic necessity (like housing) into a financial product.  Just like they've been doing with health care.  

 

You'll own nothing and be happy...  Or you can go pound sand.  Up to you.

Why not provide some of the codes you are talking about and how they "...benefit the haves at the expense of the have nots." I think most codes are well intended, and are generally implemented to insure homes are safe, often as a result of situation where the "haves" were absolutely benefiting at the expense of the  have-nots. 

 

Do you think it should not be mandated that an apartment building have fire-rated walls, or that gas-fired water heaters be properly vented? 

 

I would be interested in discussing "...purchases of entire neighborhoods by hedge funds." Where is this happening and to what extent? 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Yellowtail

[GinBoy2]

Rather curious.

 

Me and Mrs G live in 1000 sqft.

 

Plenty big enough for the two of us.

 

Our rental units are all 1100-1400 sqft which are great for a young family.

 

I never quite got the desire for huge houses. You spend most of your time sat on the couch in the family room watching TV then off to bed.

 

The housing 'crisis' could be solved overnight by building more houses that are realistic for what folks actually need to live in

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, GinBoy2 said:

Rather curious.

 

Me and Mrs G live in 1000 sqft.

 

Plenty big enough for the two of us.

 

Our rental units are all 1100-1400 sqft which are great for a young family.

 

I never quite got the desire for huge houses. You spend most of your time sat on the couch in the family room watching TV then off to bed.

 

The housing 'crisis' could be solved overnight by building more houses that are realistic for what folks actually need to live in

America's greed is part of problem. Folks recite cost of a house 50 yrs ago but forget today's prices are for homes 2 to 3 times larger.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

America's greed is part of problem. Folks recite cost of a house 50 yrs ago but forget today's prices are for homes 2 to 3 times larger.

True

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Rather curious.

 

Me and Mrs G live in 1000 sqft.

 

Plenty big enough for the two of us.

 

Our rental units are all 1100-1400 sqft which are great for a young family.

 

I never quite got the desire for huge houses. You spend most of your time sat on the couch in the family room watching TV then off to bed.

 

The housing 'crisis' could be solved overnight by building more houses that are realistic for what folks actually need to live in

Families may be getting smaller, but are they getting more "extended"? Over years, more and more people are working from home, and technology has developed such that most everyone wants a home office and a home theater. 

 

What is huge? I grew up in a SoCal three-bedroom, one bath for six people.

 

They don't build homes for people that need them, they build homes for people that want them, and many/most people want bigger homes. 

 

Also, I think it a good bet the the ratio of square feet per acre is probably trending up.

 

People in the US are generally more affluent and enjoy more leisure time than ever, regardless of what CNN would have you believe. 

[Yellowtail]

34 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

America's greed is part of problem.

Yes, America where historically people are expected to work to get the things they want, and if they work harder they are generally able to have more is greedy.

 

So I assume it safe so say that people that want/expect/demand to benefit from the work of others are not greedy, correct? 

 

34 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Folks recite cost of a house 50 yrs ago but forget today's prices are for homes 2 to 3 times larger.

The of the home I was talking earlier in the thread is values at seventy (70) times the original cost, and has not increased in size in the last 50 years.  

[Jingthing]

49 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

America's greed is part of problem. Folks recite cost of a house 50 yrs ago but forget today's prices are for homes 2 to 3 times larger.

I think you're mistaken.

When people talk that way it's almost always about the SAME house.

Such as the suburban house I grew up in.

Bought for 30K which was a stretch for my parents.

Most recent sale.

Just short of a million dollars.

Modest sized two story house three bedrooms two baths.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Rather curious.

 

Me and Mrs G live in 1000 sqft.

 

Plenty big enough for the two of us.

 

Our rental units are all 1100-1400 sqft which are great for a young family.

 

I never quite got the desire for huge houses. You spend most of your time sat on the couch in the family room watching TV then off to bed.

 

The housing 'crisis' could be solved overnight by building more houses that are realistic for what folks actually need to live in

Actually I think your comment is very dated. The McMansion trend tanked a long time ago!

 

I agree it would be good to greatly increase the stock of much smaller spaces.

 

But just try and build a multi unit building in an area zoned for single family homes.

 

The neighbors would riot.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

I think that's a lot of the problem.  Housing codes that are meant to benefit the haves at the expense of the have nots. 400sq ft is perfectly livable for a single person or a couple.  Quite tolerable for a small family (especially if the choice is nothing or choosing between food and rent.)  But illegal in most places.  Hence, the Tiny Home movement to change those laws.  I'm not a big fan of Tiny Homes of 100-400sq ft, but I am a huge fan of reasonable sized homes on the smaller end.

 

What I also haven't seen discussed is the massive purchases of entire neighborhoods by hedge funds.  Turning a basic necessity (like housing) into a financial product.  Just like they've been doing with health care.  

 

You'll own nothing and be happy...  Or you can go pound sand.  Up to you.

Not sure about hedge funds specifically but you're spot on about the destructive phenom of firms buying up massive inventories of regular homes to milk rental yields. 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/02/business/family-homes-wall-street/index.html

 

Certain markets are especially impacted by these mass buying companies. Such as Charlotte and Atlanta.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I think you're mistaken.

When people talk that way it's almost always about the SAME house.

Such as the suburban house I grew up in.

Bought for 30K which was a stretch for my parents.

Most recent sale.

Just short of a million dollars.

Modest sized two story house three bedrooms two baths.

Sure we can all tell stories of prices, we had a triplex in Alameda back in the day in the 30K range. Some family recently sold a house on Bay Farm island (east bay) 3/2 single story. Asking was 1.2M offer was 1.4M 

 

Gone are the days when a factory job let you have a life with house, car and family. 

[Jingthing]

36 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Sure we can all tell stories of prices, we had a triplex in Alameda back in the day in the 30K range. Some family recently sold a house on Bay Farm island (east bay) 3/2 single story. Asking was 1.2M offer was 1.4M 

 

Gone are the days when a factory job let you have a life with house, car and family. 

Well running a car is pretty much required for the vast majority of Americans though an increasing number are living in them.

 

That design is part of the root of this problem.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Jingthing

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Actually I think your comment is very dated. The McMansion trend tanked a long time ago!

 

I agree it would be good to greatly increase the stock of much smaller spaces.

 

But just try and build a multi unit building in an area zoned for single family homes.

 

The neighbors would riot.

   I disagree with your comment that the 'McMansion trend tanked a long time ago'.  I just googled new house projects in Loudoun County, Virginia, the county where I used to work.  McMansions were being built there in the '80s through 2010 when I left and it looks like McMansions are still being built there.  Both Loudoun, and Fairfax county next door, are very wealthy counties filled with high-paid DC government workers and all the many related private industries serving the bloated federal government.  At least in that area of the country people still want their McMansion.   Fun fact:  Just checked and Loudoun County is now ranked as the richest county in the US, and Fairfax is #4.

[Jingthing]

https://www.probuilder.com/demand-mcmansions-decline

 

Demand For McMansions On The Decline

 

Despite the derisive name, McMansions were hot property a decade or so ago. Now, they are on their way out.

Business Insider, citing data from Trulia, reports that the premiums paid for McMansions (defined as mass-produced suburban homes that measure between 3,000 and 5,000 square feet) have declined in 85 of the 100 biggest U.S. cities.