Bitcoin price rises past $50,000 as rebound continues

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

They changed their system to allow users to pay in crypto.

 

Previously Visa did convert the crypto into fiat, but the new system no longer does that:

 

"Traditionally, if a customer chooses to use a Crypto.com Visa card to pay for a coffee, the digital currency held in a cryptocurrency wallet needs to be converted into traditional money. The cryptocurrency wallet will deposit traditional fiat currency in a bank account, to be wired to Visa at the end of the day to settle any transactions, adding cost and complexity for businesses.

 

Visa’s latest step, which will use the ethereum blockchain, strips out the need to convert digital coin into traditional money in order for the transaction to be settled."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/visa-moves-to-allow-payment-settlements-using-cryptocurrency.html

 

So yeah, people can now use Visa to pay in crypto.

 

Obviously it's early days, but the system is now in place. Surely it's clear where this is heading?

that's a simple wallet, like a debit card, they simply branded it to look cool, like I said, all PR stuff, nothing real.

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

What happens when you are proven wrong and all the banks that are now on board as well as the countries that are creating a digital currency make your views irrelevant.  Will you still be as reticent.

ahahaha, I know I will not be proven wrong on that one, it's a slam duck ????

 

you guys don't really understand world finance, so I am pretty much comfortable here arguing with you ????

 

you use headlines, I use my knowledge of the existing financial systems, and how big firms use PR to promote their firms on all kind of silly topics ????

[GrandPapillon]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Guess all of us Crypto Hodlers are criminals then in your mind....

a lot of small traders in that space are speculating, but the big guns use it to "hide" certain transactions

[ThailandRyan]

16 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I reckon that crypto and non crypto payment systems will both continue to be used and work alongside each other for longer than any of us will be alive.

 

I am not so sure about the gold as a hedge option though - that's going to change much quicker, in just a few short years (<10) I think.

My dad, rest his sole, kept silver ingots, gold krugerrands and over 100 small loose diamonds in his safety deposit box.  He also had a thumb drive with many different cryptos inside, bitcoin, ether, and litecoin along with the key and instructions on what to do with it should he pass.  His hedge against a crash was the diamonds, gold and the silver.  He passed from this world leaving each one of us as well as the grandkids well off.  Some people made their mark in stocks like Buffet, others became wealthy by working hard and investing and now the likes of Mark Cuban, Mr. Wonderful and others have also become vested in Cryptos.  Why would you believe this is for suckers only @GrandPapillon.  The train has departed the station and is only gaining steam.  Some countries like China are trying to quash it by creating their own digital currencies.  However, I do not see this going in the toilet.  Sure it will porpoise up and down, even the stock market goes up and down as well as the prices on precious metals.  I will agree to disagree with you.  No one is trying to make anyone change their views here.  Life is what it is, and at the end of the day if it all goes south then I can honestly say I have already reaped a huge reward, paid many hundreds of thousands in taxes to the Feds, and am happy with what I have in life.

[GrandPapillon]

there is nothing wrong speculating with cryptos and making money on it,

 

billionaires are like everyone else, they fall for fairy tales and scams, they are the preferred targets of criminals actually with the poor of course ????

 

there is however one issue for the farming, it's not eco-friendly, and it's a waste of precious natural resources (like oil and gas to produce electricity), and of course it finance criminal activities (just take a look at the operators of GPUs farms on TikTok, those guys don't come across as crypto "purists" ???? )

 

outside this, it's completely harmless and will not change dramatically our lifestyle (except for the waste of resources)

 

if people wants to "dream" of a crypto world, perfectly free to do so, but when they try to "promote" their silly ideas onto others, like a religion, or the Jehova Witness, then I feel compelled to respond to their non-sense ????

[chalawaan]

The fact that no less a mind than Sir Isaac Newton lost his fortune in one of the earliest bubbles ought give pause.

 

The tumbleweed of ashamed silence will replace the jubilation when shirts get lost in the final big wash-out.

 

Let me ask a serious question; when do you cash out?

 

If everyone's a HODLER can you see the conundrum here?

 

Who pays for gazillion-dollar crypto at the top?

 

Not expecting a single reply of any real intelligence, but ya never know!

[Bob12345]

14 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

????

you guys don't really understand world finance, so I am pretty much comfortable here arguing with you ????

????

If you are as smart as you think you are, why are you spending so much time here having fake "discussions" where you just push away every argument and declare yourself the winner?

 

Dont you have billions to make with your big brains instead of wasting time here?

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

If you are as smart as you think you are, why are you spending so much time here having fake "discussions" where you just push away every argument and declare yourself the winner?

 

Dont you have billions to make with your big brains instead of wasting time here?

I am free to do whatever of my time and who to argue with ????

 

what's your excuse then to barge in? and your point? none I see, thanks for sharing ????

[Airalee]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I use it for all my grocery shopping and online transactions.  Paid my BNH bill for my last endocrinology visit and then have used it for many other things.  It is done by using my Coinbase Crypto Visa Card.  I do get rewards also for using it of up to 4%.  Sure there is a conversion fee from crypto to fiat for using other types of Crypto one has designated, but that in itself is offset by the rewards earned and then the fact I use my USDC funds then there is no conversion fee.  Believe what you want, it is readily accessible and can be used anywhere a Visa card can be used.

 

Question for you regarding Coinbase as I recently made a small(ish) investment in it.

 

Now that PayPal (in addition to major investment firms) has recently announced that they will give people the ability to buy and sell crypto currencies, what do you see as the future for Coinbase?  
 

Will these new entrants to the market have not only the long time brand recognition (and financial clout) to ultimately render Coinbase a “nobody” in the end?  I have read of people complaining that Coinbase fees are too high, so what is stopping the “big players” from undercutting them and ultimately killing any value as an investment much like Walmart and Amazon did with smaller retailers?

 

Just curious as to your opinion.

[chalawaan]

23 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

there is nothing wrong speculating with cryptos and making money on it,

 

billionaires are like everyone else, they fall for fairy tales and scams, they are the preferred targets of criminals actually with the poor of course ????

 

there is however one issue for the farming, it's not eco-friendly, and it's a waste of precious natural resources (like oil and gas to produce electricity), and of course it finance criminal activities (just take a look at the operators of GPUs farms on TikTok, those guys don't come across as crypto "purists" ???? )

 

outside this, it's completely harmless and will not change dramatically our lifestyle (except for the waste of resources)

 

if people wants to "dream" of a crypto world, perfectly free to do so, but when they try to "promote" their silly ideas onto others, like a religion, or the Jehova Witness, then I feel compelled to respond to their non-sense ????

Wrong about eco-friendly 'farming" as you term it. That's a FUD red-herring. Yes it uses vast amounts of energy to "mine" but the energy itself can and is being sourced from renewables to address that, also, its creation is a finite exercise, one day fairly soon the last satoshi will be "mined", unlike the currently endless demand for oil and gas in other industries.

 

Wrong also about crypto being "untraceable" or in other words the domain of criminals, it is decentralised, but it is absolutely traceable, that's a large part of what makes it valuable outside of rank and foolish speculation, that it it is "provable" in the ledger, and as such needs to be traceable, obviously! Wallets are anonymous, until they're not, while the coin is decentralised, wallets are seized, emptied or stolen all the time.

 

Since you got these basics dead wrong, I would not trust your self-professed knowledge of "world finance" further than I could throw a jumbo jet.

[GrandPapillon]

3 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Wrong about eco-friendly 'farming" as you term it. That's a FUD red-herring. Yes it uses vast amounts of energy to "mine" but the energy itself can and is being sourced from renewables to address that, also, its creation is a finite exercise, one day fairly soon the last satoshi will be "mined", unlike the currently endless demand for oil and gas in other industries.

 

Wrong also about crypto being "untraceable" or in other words the domain of criminals, it is decentralised, but it is absolutely traceable, that's a large part of what makes it valuable outside of rank and foolish speculation, that it it is "provable" in the ledger, and as such needs to be traceable, obviously! Wallets are anonymous, until they're not, while the coin is decentralised, wallets are seized, emptied or stolen all the time.

 

Since you got these basics dead wrong, I would not trust your self-professed knowledge of "world finance" further than I could throw a jumbo jet.

LOL, that didn't address any of the issues in any meaningful way I raised but thanks for playing ????

 

yes, it's eco-friendly, god, you crypto enthusiasts are out of this world ????

[The Cipher]

4 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

If you are as smart as you think you are, why are you spending so much time here

Dont you have billions to make with your big brains instead of wasting time here?

I know you addressed this to him, but I feel like this is a good point that applies to me lol.

 

Every minute I spend on here would be better spent working on my business ????

[fdsa]

5 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

there is however one issue for the farming, it's not eco-friendly, and it's a waste of precious natural resources (like oil and gas to produce electricity), and of course it finance criminal activities (just take a look at the operators of GPUs farms on TikTok, those guys don't come across as crypto "purists" ???? )

google:// what is proof-of-stake

google:// staking pos coins on 5W raspberry pi

 

4 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Wrong also about crypto being "untraceable" or in other words the domain of criminals, it is decentralised, but it is absolutely traceable, that's a large part of what makes it valuable outside of rank and foolish speculation, that it it is "provable" in the ledger, and as such needs to be traceable, obviously! Wallets are anonymous, until they're not, while the coin is decentralised, wallets are seized, emptied or stolen all the time.

google:// what is zk-snarks

[ed strong]

13 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

can you try English, not sure if these are typos or something interesting you are trying to say ????

"Cryptos didn't take over the world finance "

 

The world finance!? What on earth is the world finance ? Lol.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, ed strong said:

"Cryptos didn't take over the world finance "

 

The world finance!? What on earth is the world finance ? Lol.

The thing about crypto is that it only needs a tiny percentage of global markets and it's wildly succeeded.

 

It doesn't need to take over or dominate anything to be a success.....

[Freddy42OZ]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:26 AM, The Cipher said:

Now I need to be clear - I still think crypto is a highly speculative space with a ton of scams. I've said this before but should reiterate: I do not think that crypto allocations are suitable for a lot of the AseanNow readership. But for myself, as a 30 year old looking down the runway of the future, I just don't see the case for sitting this one out.

I am very pro crypto and have made good money from it, first in 2010, then in 2017 and now again in the past 18 months. 
My only regret is twice I've been in and twice I took multi year breaks where I should have stayed in the market. Oh well, won't make that mistake again! 

I'm in my mid 50's and a techie so I understand it probably better than the grumpy dinosaurs who don't get it and don't trust anything they don't understand.  

I agree some of it is highly speculative and there are a lot of scams, which for the not so well informed makes the space rather dangerous.  That said some of the scams are so obvious anyone falling for them is an idiot and gets no real sympathy from me. 

I think we'll see 100K BTC within 2-3 months, then I'm anticipating a pullback of 70-80%    Alts will likely rise for a bit longer but they will also correct after 3-4 month bullrun.  Then I think we'll see a bear market for 6 months to a year, which will be a good time to accumulate.

I wish we had more of us younger people in these forums, instead of it being a retirement community!

[Bob12345]

15 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

I am free to do whatever of my time and who to argue with ????

 

what's your excuse then to barge in? and your point? none I see, thanks for sharing ????

Why would i make a point besides that you are just trolling?

 

Is there any chance you will admit you might be wrong? If not, its a complete waste of time to "argue" or "discuss" with you. I rather try to teach my dog algebra.

[Tanomazu]

16 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

that's a simple wallet, like a debit card, they simply branded it to look cool, like I said, all PR stuff, nothing real.

"Visa said Wednesday that more than $1 billion worth of cryptocurrency was spent by consumers globally on goods and services through their crypto-linked cards in the first six months of the year."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/visa-says-crypto-linked-card-usage-tops-1-billion-in-first-half-of-2021.html

 

Sounds like it's a bit more than PR. 1 billion USD worth of transactions using Visa's crypto cards alone, and let's not forget there are other providers, and this is very early days still.

 

More like PR looks like Visa is servicing considerable and real consumer demand. Looks like millions of people want to use crypto.

[GrandPapillon]

3 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

"Visa said Wednesday that more than $1 billion worth of cryptocurrency was spent by consumers globally on goods and services through their crypto-linked cards in the first six months of the year."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/07/visa-says-crypto-linked-card-usage-tops-1-billion-in-first-half-of-2021.html

 

Sounds like it's a bit more than PR. 1 billion USD worth of transactions using Visa's crypto cards alone, and let's not forget there are other providers, and this is very early days still.

 

More like PR looks like Visa is servicing considerable and real consumer demand. Looks like millions of people want to use crypto.

it's pure BS and you know it? $1bn buying coffees with cryptos? please get real ????

 

read carefully, payments are made in USD, conversion are made to pay for all those coffees ????

 

credit card is linked, but if you pay in local currency, then it's still a conversion, that is you will sell automatically cryptos to buy USD and buy your coffee ????

 

it's a branded debit card that links to an exchange wallet,

 

"The company is currently partnered with Coinbase, Circle and BlockFi to allow its cards to access crypto wallets on those platforms."

 

gotta love PR ????

[GrandPapillon]

4 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Why would i make a point besides that you are just trolling?

 

Is there any chance you will admit you might be wrong? If not, its a complete waste of time to "argue" or "discuss" with you. I rather try to teach my dog algebra.

and you are not baiting and trolling? ????

[Tanomazu]

7 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

it's pure BS and you know it? $1bn buying coffees with cryptos? please get real ????

 

read carefully, payments are made in USD, conversion are made to pay for all those coffees ????

 

credit card is linked, but if you pay in local currency, then it's still a conversion

That would be a lot of coffee, but I suspect other things were bought besides coffee, since one can buy pretty much anything with bitcoin now.

 

But it's a fair point, a fair percentage of that would have been converted in USD, only recently did VISA introduce a pure crypto card that's not converted. I don't see the issue with that. Of course people will convert crypto into fiat at some point, that's still unavoidable as yet.

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, Tanomazu said:

That would be a lot of coffee, but I suspect other things were bought besides coffee, since one can buy pretty much anything with bitcoin now.

 

But it's a fair point, a fair percentage of that would have been converted in USD, only recently did VISA introduce a pure crypto card that's not converted. I don't see the issue with that. Of course people will convert crypto into fiat at some point, that's still unavoidable as yet.

indeed, a pure crypto credit card would be fine, but nobody is really offering to sell their product in pure cryptos simply because the price will not be stable, by the time you make the transaction, what would be your real cost if the underlying cryptos had a sudden jump or crash

 

it's simply not convenient, and not usable, hence why it will never scale to a full consumer market

[Tanomazu]

20 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

indeed, a pure crypto credit card would be fine, but nobody is really offering to sell their product in pure cryptos simply because the price will not be stable, by the time you make the transaction, what would be your real cost if the underlying cryptos had a sudden jump or crash

 

it's simply not convenient, and not usable, hence why it will never scale to a full consumer market

Funny enough, this fluctuating value is a major problem with a number of fiat currencies, and in those countries people hedge their risk by buying bitcoins, thus having less exposure to the volatile currency.

 

So actually, this risk is not solely a bitcoin risk, and would not impede the use of bitcoin.

 

There are people, btw, who offer products purely in crypto

[Tanomazu]

20 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Let me ask a serious question; when do you cash out?

 

If everyone's a HODLER can you see the conundrum here?

 

Who pays for gazillion-dollar crypto at the top?

 

Not expecting a single reply of any real intelligence, but ya never know!

Everyone is not a Holder of bitcoin. Many people have sold their bitcoin, and this is done on a daily basis.

 

Obviously when you sell depends on your own circumstances, if you consider you've made enough money, or just need cash.

 

It's the exact same with gold, shares, or any other asset, you sell when you decide you've made enough money or need the cash. How is it different with bitcoin?

[GrandPapillon]

19 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Funny enough, this fluctuating value is a major problem with a number of fiat currencies, and in those countries people hedge their risk by buying bitcoins, thus having less exposure to the volatile currency.

 

So actually, this risk is not solely a bitcoin risk, and would not impede the use of bitcoin.

 

There are people, btw, who offer products purely in crypto

you need to snap back to reality, currencies do not have 20% daily swings ????

 

so using volatile cryptos to "hedge" against more stable "currencies", that's just a new level of lalaland we are reaching here in the cryptosphere ????

[Tanomazu]

28 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

you need to snap back to reality, currencies do not have 20% daily swings ????

 

so using volatile cryptos to "hedge" against more stable "currencies", that's just a new level of lalaland we are reaching here in the cryptosphere ????

You may want to tell the good people of Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Lebanon and Argentina about your theory.

 

Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation, but also against political instability and social disruption.

 

Bitcoin is seen as an inflation hedge mainly because of its limited supply, which is not influenced by its price, and because of its relative attractiveness when real yields head to zero or lower.

 

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-hedge-inflation-crazy

 

"We further find that Bitcoin can be hedged against stocks, bonds and SHIBOR and is a safe haven when extreme price changes occur in the monetary market."

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2096232019300885

 

In fact Turkish Lira has lost 221 per cent and Russian Ruble has also lost around 117.41 per cent value. The worst performing country in the world in the last five years is the Argentinian Peso which lost around 546.72 per cent value in the last five years.

 

https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/economy/article/take-a-look-at-currencies-that-have-lost-up-to-400-value-in-last-five-years/283808

 

Why do you think Maduro introduced a cryptocurrency? Because the Venezuelan Bolivar lost over 60% of its value in the month preceding 28 November 2016.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Venezuela

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

13 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

You may want to tell the good people of Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Lebanon and Argentina about your theory.

 

Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation, but also against political instability and social disruption.

 

Bitcoin is seen as an inflation hedge mainly because of its limited supply, which is not influenced by its price, and because of its relative attractiveness when real yields head to zero or lower.

 

oh boy, swimming into the crypto Kool-Aid I see ????

 

yeah, all these nice and stable countries embracing cryptos, that's a real vote of confidence ????

[Heng]

Looks like ya'll are debating something or other.  

 

I'll just add... As long as you're liquid and periodically lock in your profits into real estate or whatever else you like... Who cares if the music stops or which way it goes?   It's all history eventually.   

 

 

[Tanomazu]

4 minutes ago, Heng said:

Looks like ya'll are debating something or other.  

 

I'll just add... As long as you're liquid and periodically lock in your profits into real estate or whatever else you like... Who cares if the music stops or which way it goes?   It's all history eventually.   

 

 

The point is surely that Bitcoin gains 20% as quick as it loses it. Back up to 50,000 recently, within a short time Bitcoin can make back its losses as if it were nothing. Not so with many fiat currencies which have literally disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

[Heng]

11 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

The point is surely that Bitcoin gains 20% as quick as it loses it. Back up to 50,000 recently, within a short time Bitcoin can make back its losses as if it were nothing. Not so with many fiat currencies which have literally disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

And what was that point reflective of?    Yes, it's volatile. 

 

Myself I like to have some 'risk on' assets in my portfolio.   I'm mostly risk off as I'm middle aged but there would be nothing to check up on if it were all risk off.