England adds Thailand and Montenegro to travel red list

[Mises]

UK nationals here now have only until 4am Monday to return and avoid quarantine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/international-travel-update-new-destinations-added-to-government-travel-lists

So anyone from the UK that arrived in Phuket for a break of more than a week from Heathrow on say, Thai Air last Saturday using the Sandbox scheme has to leave on a flight today or Saturday in order to avoid 2 weeks in a prison near Heathrow. There is a Thai Air flight 23.55 tonight that has seats available and arrives London 7.15am tomorrow but good luck filling your passenger locator form up to 48 hours before arrival.

[david555]

14 minutes ago, samtam said:

Yes, that's why I was saying "obviously in the case of Pfizer" where it was administered, because no Pfizer made in Thailand.

O.K. ,

but former the control on which AZ was used for a check on a passenger /country entry , was done so and so accepted if produced in a accepted country , not the place from jabbing , batch numbers are on the internet (somewhere) and used by airlines check  (our first & most important  hurdle ...), but as i understand from E.U. at least...., the vaccination is no free pass anymore arriving from red list , sometimes only a difference in a home quarantine or hotel .....

 

But rules are very difficult to understand and to follow as by continuous changes 

Edited August 27, 2021 by david555

[ericbj]

They must mean the U.K., not just England.

And does this apply to those who must change flights at Heathrow to return to the Continent ? Nearly 100K baht is a stiff price to pay !

[samtam]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

O.K. ,

but former the control on which AZ was used for a check on a passenger /country entry , was done so and so accepted if produced in a accepted country , not the place from jabbing , batch numbers are on the internet (somewhere) and used by airlines check  (our first & most important  hurdle ...), but as i understand from E.U. at least...., the vaccination is no free pass anymore arriving from red list , sometimes only a difference in a home quarantine or hotel .....

 

But rules are very difficult to understand and to follow by continuous changes 

I'm talking about entry to UK. If you are vaccinated in Thailand with whatever brand, you have to do 10 day self-isolation, (assuming you "wash-out" in a green or amber country before arrival in UK, effective 30 August 2021). It matters not where the vaccine was made, it matters where you were inoculated. So even though AZ made in Thailand or South Korea or Belgium, or UK is the same, if it was administered, (the syringe inserted into your arm), in Thailand, it is not currently recognised by the agency in UK to enable you to qualify for no quarantine. Pfizer, Moderna, etc (any brand) made outside of Thailand, but administered in Thailand is not recognised to allow exemption to the self-isolation rule that applies until 30 August.

[samtam]

19 minutes ago, Mises said:

UK nationals here now have only until 4am Monday to return and avoid quarantine.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/international-travel-update-new-destinations-added-to-government-travel-lists

 

So anyone from the UK that arrived in Phuket for a break of more than a week from Heathrow on say, Thai Air last Saturday using the Sandbox scheme has to leave on a flight today or Saturday in order to avoid 2 weeks in a prison near Heathrow. There is a Thai Air flight 23.55 tonight that has seats available and arrives London 7.15am tomorrow but good luck filling your passenger locator form up to 48 hours before arrival.

10 days.

[ericbj]

They must mean the U.K., not just England.

And does this apply to those who must change flights at Heathrow to return to the Continent ? Nearly 100K baht is a stiff price to pay !

[Clarkey611]

22 minutes ago, Mises said:

good luck filling your passenger locator form up to 48 hours before arrival.

This means that you can only start completing the locator form within 48 hours of arriving in the UK, so in theory can be completed electronically on the plane, if wi-fi is available. However, you need to provide documentary evidence of a completed locator form at check-in to allow you to board.

[david555]

5 minutes ago, samtam said:

I'm talking about entry to UK. If you are vaccinated in Thailand with whatever brand, you have to do 10 day self-isolation, (assuming you "wash-out" in a green or amber country before arrival in UK, effective 30 August 2021). It matters not where the vaccine was made, it matters where you were inoculated. So even though AZ made in Thailand or South Korea or Belgium, or UK is the same, if it was administered, (the syringe inserted into your arm), in Thailand, it is not currently recognised by the agency in UK to enable you to qualify for no quarantine. Pfizer, Moderna, etc (any brand) made outside of Thailand, but administered in Thailand is not recognised to allow exemption to the self-isolation rule that applies until 30 August.

yeah the continuous difference in rules by country.....and on top of that the "bypassing rules" by a stop over in green /amber country's ....to drive people complete "nuts "????

Edited August 27, 2021 by david555

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, DoctorB said:

Yet only last month they put India on the 'no quarantine if vaxed' amber list. The mentality is baffling. It really does seem that it's just a game of travel roulette.

Not only that, they did it when cases in India were actually rising. I expected Thailand to be put on the Red List at least a month ago and brought my wife's UK visit forward to avoid that possibility. 

 

Although I expected this change, I see no rhyme or reason behind the UK's decisions on many countries and Johnson refuses to publish the criteria.

 

Johnson says the decisions are made on the amount of cases, the existence of variants and the percentage of the population vaccinated but as I say, he won't give any exact criteria.  Fair enough, Thailand fails miserably on all those measures but India is no better.

Edited August 27, 2021 by KhaoYai

[samtam]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

yeah the continuous difference in rules by country.....and on top of that the "bypassing rules" by a stop over in green /amber country's ....to drive people complete "nuts "????

I agree. It's insane. The variations are completely bonkers. And this circus will carry on for at least another year at best.

[samtam]

13 minutes ago, ericbj said:

They must mean the U.K., not just England.

And does this apply to those who must change flights at Heathrow to return to the Continent ? Nearly 100K baht is a stiff price to pay !

Yes, UK. OP title incorrect.

[KhaoYai]

16 minutes ago, david555 said:

yeah the continuous difference in rules by country.....and on top of that the "bypassing rules" by a stop over in green /amber country's ....to drive people complete "nuts "????

That stopover would have to be at least 10 days so its hardly a bypass.

 

People can and have been, fined up to £10,000 for lying on their passenger locator forms.

 

The maximum punishment is actually 10 years jail-time.

Edited August 27, 2021 by KhaoYai

[david555]

Just now, KhaoYai said:

That stopover would have to be at least 10 days so its hardly a bypass.

a "bypass" has no length i would say , a "bypass"is circumventing a rule .....how long or short (in pure meaning of the word ), not just only in this covid rule case 

 

But in your meaning and understanding  it is indeed correct ????

[malthebluff]

It was only a matter of time so I'm not surprised but with domestic travel not being allowed there will be a lot of people stuck here who need to get back as they cant get to an international airport in time to get back to the UK so going to be a costly £1750 quarantine 

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

But in your meaning and understanding  it is indeed correct

Indeed - to benefit you would have to find a country that allows people in from Thailand without quarantine and that country would need to be at least on the Amber List. You would then need to stay there for 10 days or lie on your locator form.  A number have been caught doing that so I'm pretty sure your travel history is flagged up when your passport is scanned.

[david555]

4 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

That stopover would have to be at least 10 days so its hardly a bypass.

 

People can and have been, fined up to £10,000 for lying on their passenger locator forms.

 

The maximum punishment is actually 10 years jail-time.

A good gov. money maker 

yeah al covid suffered  country's need money never forget our governments not go pay that .... seems we go be considered being the one go pay he tab ,one way or another ????

[Tuvoc]

I returned to the UK in June, and I was concerned leading up to that that Thailand could go on the red list. Fortunatelt it didn't.

 

When I go back to Thailand later in the year, I'll be returning in Feb 2022. By that time it should be back to Amber ????  One woild hope.

[Dogmatix]

They are always behind the curve which is how they imported delta.  They waited several weeks while the delta wave of the pandemic raged in India, allowing arrivals from India to enter without quarantine and go all over the country. Many Indians with money fled to the UK to avoid the pandemic bringing it with them.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, Caldera said:

Seriously though, the only thing that surprises me is that Thailand wasn't already moved to the red list during the previous review.

It's not about case numbers, they have more than 30k cases each day in the UK - it's about variants.

 

 

[In Full Agreement]

11 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

Fairs fair. What's good enough for Thailand...

 

This isn't about equal treatment.    It's about trying to halt the spread of a deadly disease

 

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

So the virus numbers in Australia are exploding, but Australia is not on the red list?

 

Can anyone explain this mystery?

Give it a month or two, it's only just getting started down there.

It looks like the government are doing everything they can to stretch it out for as long as possible.

 

That's a controversial way to deal with it, they will mostly all become infected in the long run but maybe the more effective treatments which are going through trials right now will be in widespread use by then.

 

[KhaoYai]

6 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

They are always behind the curve which is how they imported delta.  They waited several weeks while the delta wave of the pandemic raged in India, allowing arrivals from India to enter without quarantine and go all over the country. Many Indians with money fled to the UK to avoid the pandemic bringing it with them.

I do not disagree - I couldn't believe it when India remained Amber for so long but to be fair, the Indian variant seems to have spread everywhere - even places with very strict rules like Australia.

[Tanomazu]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Give it a month or two, it's only just getting started down there.

It looks like the government are doing everything they can to stretch it out for as long as possible.

 

That's a controversial way to deal with it, they will mostly all become infected in the long run but maybe the more effective treatments which are going through trials right now will be in widespread use by then.

 

It's a bit like with Thailand, isn't it, few cases for a long time and then suddenly it erupts, despite the lockdowns from government.

 

 

 

 

[GStewart70]

Just reading the previous posts is all you need to do to realise that this high season is lost as well in Thailand.

Feel sorry for those that have invested their savings or sold home country property to run a business in Thailand.

I hope expats and domestic tourism can keep the lights on, but mass tourism is finished for years to come.

What savings that are left will slowly be drained from the bank.

Never, ever burn your bridges.

[GStewart70]

14 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

They are always behind the curve which is how they imported delta.  They waited several weeks while the delta wave of the pandemic raged in India, allowing arrivals from India to enter without quarantine and go all over the country. Many Indians with money fled to the UK to avoid the pandemic bringing it with them.

I think you'll find the UK's only crime is being to honest.

Their global genome sequencing is pretty much the best in the world.

In other words, they find existing and new variants and very quickly. Then they hold their hand up to alert the world.

The virus variants are most likely all over the world but the UK admits there present.

UK  does nearly 50% of global genome sequencing. I think Germany is about 3%.

It's unfortunate when facts get in the way.

 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Only a matter of time before that happened, its unfortunate and a blow for the sandbox as that had a good percentage of UK nationals arriving although the numbers arriving in sandbox from all nationalities has been declining rapidly lately anyway.

 

Lets hope Thailand gets its act together.

They are introducing this at the end of August which is pretty much the end of the holiday season in the UK so is unlikely to have much effect on tourists going to Thailand.  The high season will be later in the year and who knows what new restrictions will be in place then.  Or removed.

 

But I think some are reading to much into this decision.  The UK will just look at the figures and assess the risks from that.  The political situation in Thailand has no relevance here at all.

[Tuvoc]

8 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

But I think some are reading to much into this decision.  The UK will just look at the figures and assess the risks from that.  The political situation in Thailand has no relevance here at all.

Yes, and on a future review it will no doubt go back to Amber, question is when. Towards the end of the year I suspect.

[superal]

Just out of curiosity I went to the Thai Air web site this morning to see the cost of a one way ticket from Bangkok to London before the 30th August deadline  ( only Friday & Sunday available ) . 52765 baht economy . So about £1200 or 3 times the normal fare . Or half the cost of the London quarantine hotel .

[Tanomazu]

19 minutes ago, GStewart70 said:

I think you'll find the UK's only crime is being to honest.

Their global genome sequencing is pretty much the best in the world.

In other words, they find existing and new variants and very quickly. Then they hold their hand up to alert the world.

The virus variants are most likely all over the world but the UK admits there present.

UK  does nearly 50% of global genome sequencing. I think Germany is about 3%.

It's unfortunate when facts get in the way.

 

The UK is certainly honest in this pandemic, and also doing good work in terms of genome sequencing of Corona variants. However, you're living in la-la-land, if you believe the UK does 50% of global genome sequencing. The only way the UK can do any genome sequencing of coronaviruses at all is because it takes data from a European platform, GISAID, from which the UK copied most of its data on the variants it feeds into is own government system.

 

GISAID is hosted by the Federal Republic of Germany, and came about at the initiative of Peter Bogner, a German executive. To this day it is Germany that provides the technical means and hosting for GISAID. It was through GISAID that the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention shared the genome sequence of SARS Cov2.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GISAID

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01069-w

 

So whilst the UK could only establish its systems for genome sequencing thanks to the German-hosted GISAID from which the UK government sequencing site takes most data, it is true that the UK has taken a lead in Genome sequencing. However, already in January 2021 the German health ministry has to meet a requirement that 5% of all positive corona tests are gene sequenced. By comparison the UK also sequences 5-10%.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-sequencing-idUSKBN29J1KS

 

The real leader in gene sequencing of corona samples is in fact Denmark, not the UK.

 

[beano2274]

even using another country will not help, as you only transit there, your passport has no stamp for that country unless you physically go out of the Airport area. Then you are to follow the rules of that country, maybe Thailand is on their lists. And also your passport was scanned at your departure airport and also will be in the UK, this will then be spotted, and you are liable for a very expensive arrival in the UK