bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Hi I just installed a sub-panel in our guest house to handle increased electric usage ( mostly the air con) Connected the wire between the main shut off and the house panel and ran to sub-panel in the guest house and installed a ground out there Now the florescent and LED lights in the main house are all "ghost lights" -they always have a glow at night Also seem to have a really high elect bill now-almost double Any idea whats causing this and a recommended fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, bbudd said: Connected the wire As in "one wire"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 No-sorrry 2 aluminum wires-heavy gauge similar to main house leads from pole/meter installed second ground just for sub-panel rather than run from main Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Is your main house supplied with MEN? Have you added a second MEN link at your new board? If you turn off the new board's main breaker do your ghost lights stop? When you spliced in to the supply did you disconnect the cables at your main disconnect unit, any possibilty that they got reversed? Check the polarity at your new board and your existing board just to be sure. Photos of your existing and new boards with the lids off would be very handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 By MEN he means neutral conductor attached to ground at terminal box (not done everywhere). If you can take photos without putting yourself in danger can be helpful - Crossy knows his stuff. Quote MEN Connection · It is the link between the main earth terminal bar and the main neutral conductor bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 both main and sub are grounded to rods not sure if turning off sub panel-haven't tried yet as both wires are identical-theirs a chance they are reversed at sub panel how would i go about checking polarity? i'll take some pix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 @bbudd did you DIY this or get a local "electrician" to do it? What test equipment do you have? A neon screwdriver is a quick and easy way to check polarity. If you don't have one you should get one along with a cheap digital multimeter. Your local hardware store should be able to help with both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 black wires to sub panel are connected to main feed wires at 100 Amp breaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 have a couple multi meters its all DIY-did all ,my own electrical back in Canada mostly 110-220 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 OK. Looks like No MEN anywhere. At the new panel. With your meter set to >220V AC One probe on your earth bar(top right) other probe on the right hand incoming wire you should see 220V ish. Conversely, between the left side incoming wire and the earth bar you should see about 0V. As a final check measure between the incoming cables, again 220V. At the old panel. Do the same, should be the same result. It's a bit worrying that you old panel has the grey (normally neutral) wires on the breakers and the black wires (normally live) on the neutral bar. But the electrons really don't care what colour the insulation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 I'm a lot more used to having correctly color coded wireing Should have run each feed separately -but as I only had one length I just ran them as I did Whats the advantage to MEN connector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction kinda had me stumped Tomorrow will verify polarity at both panels and correct if necessary Nice to have knowledgeable folks around for assistance-much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, bbudd said: Whats the advantage to MEN connector? MEN provides a metallic path from your earth bar to the transformer star point, a L-E fault will open the MCB rapidly, far more rapidly than a short L-Rod alone (if that opens it at all). But do NOT implement unless you KNOW your local network is set up for it (the neutral is earthed every 3rd pole or so). By the way, I see no earth leakage protection (RCD,RCBO, GFCI) you should think about adding it to any "risky" cricuits, water heaters, outdoor lighting / outlets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Crossy said: any "risky" cricuits, water heaters, outdoor lighting / outlets etc. All circuits in my mind are risky - other than overhead lights perhaps. Any outlet should have protection as even a scraped extension cord plugged into it could be deadly (and not a lot of fun even with an RCD - got that demerit badge). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction kinda had me stumped Tomorrow will verify polarity at both panels and correct if necessary Nice to have knowledgeable folks around for assistance-much appreciated Your right about the ground fault-I've been too complacent Sort of if-it aint- broke attitude-may as well do a proper job if I'm in there LOL-even the overhead lighting is risky Had a mouse chew the wire and it shorted to the ceiling grid Melted the support wire and 3 rows of panels fell on the ground Sure woke me up fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve&mem Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 MEN link ????? I have just been for a walk down the Soi, every 4th electric post has a steel cable coming down from the cables above to the ground. So it looks like I have a MEN system in my area, just taken off the cover of the distribution board and I don't see a MEN link inside, If that's a cable that connects between neutral bar to the ground bar if I understand it right. The house has 3 ground rod's that I believe to be 3 meters into the ground. Do I need to put this link in or is it ok as is. Here is a picture of the breaker/interrupt on the garden wall and a picture of the distribution board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 37 minutes ago, Steve&mem said: MEN link ????? In order to create MEN you have to link the INCOMING neutral to the earth bar. The Thai way is to route the incoming neutral itself to the earth bar then run a cable from there to the incoming side of the main breaker. You have to do it this way if you want to pass the inspection for a permanent supply. To be honest, with good solid grounding and an incoming RCBO I'd leave it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve&mem Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Crossy said: In order to create MEN you have to link the INCOMING neutral to the earth bar. The Thai way is to route the incoming neutral itself to the earth bar then run a cable from there to the incoming side of the main breaker. You have to do it this way if you want to pass the inspection for a permanent supply. To be honest, with good solid grounding and an incoming RCBO I'd leave it as it is. Thanks for that, I think I will leave alone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction kinda had me stumped Tomorrow will verify polarity at both panels and correct if necessary Nice to have knowledgeable folks around for assistance-much appreciated Your right about the ground fault-I've been too complacent Sort of if-it aint- broke attitude-may as well do a proper job if I'm in there LOL-even the overhead lighting is risky Had a mouse chew the wire and it shorted to the ceiling grid Melted the support wire and 3 rows of panels fell on the ground Sure woke me up fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbudd Posted September 1, 2021 Author Share Posted September 1, 2021 You were correct-the polarity at sub-panel was reversed Fixed now and no more ghost lights Thanks again Much appreciated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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