Why people so selfish?

[Tanomazu]

11 minutes ago, Kanada said:

Change the word fault to responsibility and check the mirror…it’s you

No, actually, sorry, I'm not responsible for my 4 year old throwing a tantrum. They can throw a tantrum for the most ridiculous of reasons. Just earlier today she threw a tantrum because she wanted to wear her special puppy shirt. It was in the washing. Result, half an hour of loud protests. This is my responsibility, my fault, how exactly?

 

 

[Tanomazu]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agree to a certain extent. 
 

It can’t be stopped when it happens.

But, when it happens how the tantrum is handled has a huge impact on future behavior. 

 

No one is going to go up to a parent & tell their kid to be quiet. Only a total idiot would do that. 

 

My son has thrown 2 tantrums at home this past couple of weeks. 
His first for a good 6 months, they change, they develop, they push the boundaries, they learn… 
 

 

 

How old is this miracle child?

 

No, how you handle a tantrum does not have a "huge impact on behaviour". Not even a little. I have actually tried every possible way to handle it, told her to be quiet, comforted her, nothing works. You know why? It's just character. I have one other child, who behaves like an absolute angel. No issues at all. This other one just has that very expressive character. It's just the way it is.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

A 2, 3 or 4 year old simply does not know right from wrong because they are too small to understand even what you are saying!

This is also flawed… 

 

They may not understand right from wrong, but they know it when the my are guided.

 

I have a great video of our son at 2 years old…,

standing outside the kitchen area saying ‘bike….           bike….        bike’…

 

He was never allowed in the kitchen area (because the over could be hot or something boiling on the stove etc) 

 

His bike was in a utility room on the other side of the kitchen. 

 

He really wanted her bike but knew he could not step into the kitchen. 
We had the same rule for the balcony, a total no go area for him. 

[Tanomazu]

21 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No.. a responsible parent will take their child out of the theater & only return at a time they are confident their child can behave. 
 

Or, they take their child to a a ‘children’s’ movie theater. 

No, only if the child makes an absolute riot of a tantrum. Normal noises of toddlers simply will have to be tolerated.

 

This is not Nazi Germany.

 

A children's movie theatre? I don't know what planet you're from but here on earth children's films are shown in normal cinemas. And when you take two kids to watch Tom and Jerry, one is older and one is a toddler, the toddler may make a little noise. Don't like it? Tough luck mate.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Tanomazu

[OneMoreFarang]

5 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

That book is selfish

Did you read it?

A friend recommended it to me about 35 years ago.

It's a great book and I wish all people would read it.

[Tanomazu]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Tantrum Tanomazu ???

 

Nature vs nurture… some kids are more ‘determined’ than others… but they can still be taught…. 
 

In most cases tantrums can be handled, of course there are kids who have some ‘difficulties’ and require special guidance.

 

For the most part it’s shi^^y parenting that leads to kid who present early signs of spoiled behavior. 
 

Back on balance 99% of kids are perfectly well behaved. 

 

  

 

Nature significantly trumps nurture. It's easy to boast of well behaved kids if you were lucky enough to have ones with a docile character.

 

One of mine happens to have a real fire in nostrils. It obviously has nothing to do with "<deleted>ty parenting" because like I said, one is an absolute angel at all times, and regularly gets compliments on her behaviour.

 

It's purely nature, ie the character of this other one. Kids can be taught, but only up to the level their cognitive development allows. Even your "bike bike" miracle child would have been unable at 2 years old to be "taught" and understand certain things.

 

You're clearly overestimating yourself.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

How old is this miracle child?

 

No, how you handle a tantrum does not have a "huge impact on behaviour". Not even a little. I have actually tried every possible way to handle it, told her to be quiet, comforted her, nothing works. You know why? It's just character. I have one other child, who behaves like an absolute angel. No issues at all. This other one just has that very expressive character. It's just the way it is.

If you think how we react and respond to a child’s behavior (a tantrum) does not have an impact on their behavior then we parent very differently… 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is also flawed… 

 

They may not understand right from wrong, but they know it when the my are guided.

 

I have a great video of our son at 2 years old…,

standing outside the kitchen area saying ‘bike….           bike….        bike’…

 

He was never allowed in the kitchen area (because the over could be hot or something boiling on the stove etc) 

 

His bike was in a utility room on the other side of the kitchen. 

 

He really wanted her bike but knew he could not step into the kitchen. 
We had the same rule for the balcony, a total no go area for him. 

No they won't know a thing when they are in the red rage of a tantrum, and they can't be guided then either.

 

I can also give you cognitive miracles of my kid, but if you're trying to tell me your 2 year old never threw a tantrum, and when they did you "taught" him out of it, or "handled" him out of it, sorry but you're telling porky pies.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

I guess you do Amway

No, I know it exists but I don't like it.

I made all Dale Carnegie trainings in my first years of work. It was a great experience and I can recommend it to everybody. 

[vinci]

look around you every human on this planet is selfish

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, vinci said:

look around you every human on this planet is selfish

You clearly didn't look around much.

[vinci]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You clearly didn't look around much.

who you kidding, trust me even god is selfish

Edited August 31, 2021 by vinci

[Tanomazu]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If you think how we react and respond to a child’s behavior (a tantrum) does not have an impact on their behavior then we parent very differently…

 

Not when it's a 2 year old child and is in the throes of a red rage tantrum, no, then whatever response you have will be inadequate.

 

Telling a 2 year old who is throwing a tantrum to be quiet will actually enrage him or her even more. It's like a force of nature.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

No, only if the child makes an absolute riot of a tantrum. Normal noises of toddlers simply will have to be tolerated.

 

This is not Nazi Germany.

 

A children's movie theatre? I don't know what planet you're from but here on earth children's films are shown in normal cinemas. And when you take two kids to watch Tom and Jerry, one is older and one is a toddler, the toddler may make a little noise. Don't like it? Tough luck mate.

 

You’ve weakened the context…

 

No normal person has issues with kids making a little noise / ‘normal playful noises’ especially in kids movies.., on the other hand, a kid throwing a tantrum and screaming - take them outside. 

 

There are kids movies theaters… (in Bangkok at least). 
 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Did it work ?

Yes!

 

Let's say it like this: A long time ago I realized that I am smarter than many other people. And at that time I made sure that those other people know that. That didn't make my life better. Then a friend recommended that book to me and I read it. And it helped me to understand that people don't appreciate if they are shown all the time that they are stupid. The book helped me to be nice to people. Because there is no good reason to tell them they are stupid - even if they are.

Obviously the title of the book is not exactly perfect. But to be fair that is many years old. It could have a title like: "Live and let live". I guess that would be a better title for today. And basically it's the same information. Be nice to people and it's so much easier to live peaceful together with most of them.

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

No they won't know a thing when they are in the red rage of a tantrum, and they can't be guided then either.

 

I can also give you cognitive miracles of my kid, but if you're trying to tell me your 2 year old never threw a tantrum, and when they did you "taught" him out of it, or "handled" him out of it, sorry but you're telling porky pies.

Again you are slipping the context & creating tour own strawman scenario to argue against. 
 

Of course, every 2 year old throws a tantrum…

 

…Handle that tantrum poorly & there will be more. 
 

… Handle that tantrum well & the potential for recurrence is reduced. 
 

Parenting 101.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, vinci said:

who you kidding, trust me even god is selfish

God doesn't exit.

I guess next thing you will tell us unicorns are selfish. 

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

Not when it's a 2 year old child and is in the throes of a red rage tantrum, no, then whatever response you have will be inadequate.

 

Telling a 2 year old who is throwing a tantrum to be quiet will actually enrage him or her even more. It's like a force of nature.

Agreed… 

 

In a controlled environment (home) not responding to the tantrum with any attention sets a precedent that you’re next time it won’t work - they learn. 
 

It’s the same when they (toddlers) fall over… hovering & over reacting will encourage their over reaction… not responding & just letting themselves pick themselves will teach them not cry every time they trip… ( when they really are hurt it’s easy to tell ) 

 

 

[Tanomazu]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Again you are slipping the context & creating tour own strawman scenario to argue against. 
 

Of course, every 2 year old throws a tantrum…

 

…Handle that tantrum poorly & there will be more. 
 

… Handle that tantrum well & the potential for recurrence is reduced. 
 

Parenting 101.

 

Allright, then perhaps you can share with all of us how you "handled" the tantrum of your toddler, and how this miracle handling resulted in less tantrums?

 

Fact is it has nothing to do with what parents come up with, some kids are disposed by character to throw more tantrums than others. I know because I have more than one. One regularly gets accolades for her good behaviour, the other is a bit of a Sex Pistol. This is purely character. It has nothing to do with how their tantrums were handled.

 

Psychology 101.

[Tanomazu]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed… 

 

In a controlled environment (home) not responding to the tantrum with any attention sets a precedent that you’re next time it won’t work - they learn. 
 

It’s the same when they (toddlers) fall over… hovering & over reacting will encourage their over reaction… not responding & just letting themselves pick themselves will teach them not cry every time they trip… ( when they really are hurt it’s easy to tell ) 

 

 

So this is your miracle tantrum handling, doing nothing? Yeah, I tried that as well, about as successful as telling her to be quiet, ie not at all.

 

Now I know why hooliganism, teenage pregnancies, juvenile knife crime and such are so prevalent in some parts, literally completely deluded parenting.

[richard_smith237]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

So this is your miracle tantrum handling, doing nothing? Yeah, I tried that as well, about as successful as telling her to be quiet, ie not at all.

 

Now I know why hooliganism, teenage pregnancies, juvenile knife crime and such are so prevalent in some parts, literally completely deluded parenting.

We do things differently….

 

If your kid is off rails & you did your best, that’s all you can do. 
 

Not doing your best & and not understanding the nature of your child and still taking her/him to a decent restaurant etc & expecting them to behave would be inconsiderate of the other diners and your child. 
 

Going to a kid friendly eatery & having a fun & (moderately) loud time is perfectly fine.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by richard_smith237

[Tanomazu]

32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You’ve weakened the context…

 

No normal person has issues with kids making a little noise / ‘normal playful noises’ especially in kids movies.., on the other hand, a kid throwing a tantrum and screaming - take them outside. 

 

 

 

I quite agree with that. And when the tantrums were very bad then the removal was done several times out of social responsibility. However, I am not weakening the context, if you look at the original post that triggered this discussion it talks about children making some noises, not tantrum and screaming. There is a certain level of noise that has to be tolerated.

 

The problem is that with a 2,3 or 4 year old communication is very limited, because they

 

A) Can not speak any language

 

B) Can not understand what you are saying.

 

What's more toddlers have severe difficulties to put into practice self control, your bike bike example notwithstanding.

 

There is really nothing that can be done when a toddler gets going, except remove him or her from the room. And they get triggered by the most ridiculous things that have nothing to do with parents. To have your wife leave the room is however only a nuclear option in case of a very serious, loud and obnoxious tantrum. In the face of slightly raucous toddler noises people just have to accept it.

 

And whether there are weird children's cinemas is irrelevant, I'd only take them to a kids show anyway, not to see an adult show obviously.

[Tanomazu]

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Not doing your best & and not understanding the nature of your child and still taking her/him to a decent restaurant etc & expecting them to behave would be inconsiderate of the other diners and your child. 
 

Going to a kid friendly eatery & having a fun & (moderately) loud time is perfectly fine.

 

 

 

 

No, I can understand the nature of my child all I want, it will not produce some miracle cure to stop toddlers making noises. And if you think I will not go to decent restaurants just because some child hating geriatric grandma or grandpa, or some British wannabe Child Whisperer might not like a few child noises, then frankly you don't live in reality.

 

Get ready to hear the beautiful sound of children all over Bangkok's finest restaurants, because fortunately Thais don't have this weird attitude to kids.

 

What's inconsiderate is for singletons and geriatrics to expect the world to stop revolving and all disturbing noises to be eliminated to cater to their perfect fantasy. This is the real world, and it only exists because some people take it upon themselves to have children and provide taxpayers, doctors, roads, and basically everything the whole world enjoys. If we were as selfish as those not having children this entire world would cease to exist. Think about that before you start moaning about 2 year olds. And when you hear mine, come and thank me on your knees that I'm the one who has to put up with it every day, not you, and that I take on the major suffering, responsibility and expense to rear the tax payers of tomorrow, not you.

 

No singleton whatsoever has the right to criticise any parent. They are lucky they're not taxed even more for their selfishness in not raising kids. This whole world only exists because of kids.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Tanomazu

[Sparktrader]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did you read it?

A friend recommended it to me about 35 years ago.

It's a great book and I wish all people would read it.

Yes talk about their hobbies. Pretend to care.

[Kanada]

7 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

Instill common sense in a 2 year old? Do you even hear yourself?

 

A 2, 3 or 4 year old simply does not know right from wrong because they are too small to understand even what you are saying!

 

It has nothing to do with lazy parents, it has to do with the cognitive abilities of 2,3 or 4 year old children.

 

I am guessing your child-rearing days are a long time ago and you've completely forgotten what toddlers are like. And since 1928 there have been significant advances in child psychology. We now know what toddlers are capable of and what not.

 

If you think you can teach a 2 year old common sense then I'm guessing your'e not a CEO.

Well that’s just sad…..most kids are a lot smarter than your experience has shown you

I’ll put it a different way then

you “start” teaching at two by spending time with them!
I’m not talking about between TV commercials…I’m talking about real time outside away from distractions 

My kids were all going to a preschool at 4 (not a day care)….my Grand daughter is four and had already been attending Montessori classes for a full year! 
I guess there probably no point in going on trying to explain it to you….except to say we spent a lot of time and money raising our kids but not one dollar on legal fees????
Our neighbors…people in restaurants and movie theatres etc. didn’t have to spend even one minute raising them or putting up with them and they’ve gone on to parent the same way

[Kanada]

6 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

I quite agree with that. And when the tantrums were very bad then the removal was done several times out of social responsibility. However, I am not weakening the context, if you look at the original post that triggered this discussion it talks about children making some noises, not tantrum and screaming. There is a certain level of noise that has to be tolerated.

 

The problem is that with a 2,3 or 4 year old communication is very limited, because they

 

A) Can not speak any language

 

B) Can not understand what you are saying.

 

What's more toddlers have severe difficulties to put into practice self control, your bike bike example notwithstanding.

 

There is really nothing that can be done when a toddler gets going, except remove him or her from the room. And they get triggered by the most ridiculous things that have nothing to do with parents. To have your wife leave the room is however only a nuclear option in case of a very serious, loud and obnoxious tantrum. In the face of slightly raucous toddler noises people just have to accept it.

 

And whether there are weird children's cinemas is irrelevant, I'd only take them to a kids show anyway, not to see an adult show obviously.

Your A and B is so wrong I have to think you actually don’t have kids if your own….

 

These “tantrums” you keep droning on and on about seem to be more of a problem for you!

Being a Dad I’ve seen a few but they really aren’t a memory that comes to the forefront as it does in your experience.

We handled them as parents…and we handled them quickly….we didn’t force other people to put up with them and be a part of raising our kids

[canthai55]

12 hours ago, steven100 said:

Be kind   -   for who .

Tip people -  i'm tired of tipping thieves and liars and cheats

Give compliments  -   what to a stupid 7-11 cashier who can't ad up 2 + 2 without a calculator

Drive safe -    with these road maniacs'

Help people -   and get stabbed or shot in the process 

WOW - quite a life you must have ! Glass half empty for sure ! 555

[canthai55]

Re: kids throwing tantrums.

I have done this - and it worked.

Get up, go to the child, and tell them in a loud voice to "Shut the Hell Up"

This gets the parents into the act, and they get told the same thing. Control your children. Unable - then leave.

At times I have even received applause.

Peace and Harmony restored.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:24 PM, sipi said:

Not sure about the last one.

Not sure about the second one.

[Nanaplaza666]

10 hours ago, Kanada said:

No ones being selfish! If you can’t navigate Facebook or other simple sites you’re missing a lot!

You made the choice….live with it

(besides you don’t need to be a FB member to open the site????

That's not live with it , my choice is to live without it. I was being sarcastic you know that right ?? I don't give a flying !@#$ about fakebook .