Couple in 50's looking for extended stay options

[RoninTech]

11 hours ago, skatewash said:

Suggestions to consider:

1.  Since you are Canadians and your Embassy will issue you an income verification letter (something that US, UK, and Australian citizens can no longer get) I would definitely go that route.  There are basically two routes to meeting the financial requirements of a retirement extension of stay:  the lump-sum method and the income method.  The lump-sum method is parking 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for a year subject to various minimum balance requirements throughout the year.  The income method is where you demonstrate to your embassy's satisfaction that you have at least 65,000 baht income per month.  The Canadian Embassy issues you a letter to that effect and you use that letter to satisfy the financial requirements for a retirement extension.  The advantages are probably obvious, you don't have to bring the money into Thailand or keep a large sum of money in Thailand.  What money you bring into Thailand and keep in Thailand is entirely up to you and not dictated by immigration requirements.  No one who can easily meet the income method would want to use the lump-sum method, in my opinion.

2.  I believe you do want to acquire Non-O visas for purpose of retirement in Canada because when in Thailand you would then be able to use one of you (doesn't particularly matter which one) can be the primary applicant (who needs to meet the financial requirements) and one of you can be the dependent applicant (who doesn't need to meet the financial requirements).  This way you don't need two 65,000 baht/month income streams but only one.  (The same argument would apply to the lump sum method.)  The reason you want to do this from Canada rather than inside Thailand is that inside Thailand they won't allow one to apply for a Non-O for purpose of being a dependent upon another's Non-O visa, whilst in Canada that should be possible.

3.  Were you to choose the lump sum method the money would need to be in an account in one person's name only.  The reason is that immigration dislikes having more than the applicant's name on an account for the lump-sum method and even if your office would accept that they would very likely want to see twice the amount of the minimum balance, 1,600,000 baht rather than just 800,000.

4.  Proceeding under the income method would mean that each year you would need to procure from the Canadian Embassy (or perhaps from the Consulate in Chiang Mai) a income verification letter proving you have 65,000 baht or more of income per month.  Don't know what the Canadian Embassy charges for this letter but for comparison purposes the US Embassy charged $50 USD per letter.  Remember you would only need one letter for the primary applicant.  The dependent doesn't need an income letter only evidence of the relationship to the primary.

Awesome info again skatewash.  Here is what I *think* we should do.  ????  Please point out any issues or improvements if you see a weakness with the strategy:

 

From Canada, I apply for a Non-O based on retirement and my wife applies for a Non-O based on being a trailing spouse.  We would not need to open up a Thai bank account for this.  Just prove that we have access to Canadian equivalent of 800K or 65K THB/month.  This will give each of us 90 days in Thailand.

 

Once we arrive in Chiang Mai after getting out of ASQ in BKK, we start the process of opening a Thai Bank account. 

 

Worst case scenario: After we open the Thai bank account, use Wise to move 800K plus living expense $ into it.  After the 800K THB has been in the account for 2 months, I apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement providing the bank account info to immigration.  At the same time my wife applies for a 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse using our Canadian marriage certificate.  Do they need the original marriage certificate?

 

Best case scenario: After we open the Thai bank account, use Wise to move living expense $ into it.  Using my T4 (Canadian tax statement) contact the Canadian Embassy in BKK (assume have to physically go there?) or maybe the Canadian Consulate in Chiang Mai to get an affidavit of income for myself.  I use the affidavit of income letter to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement and my wife applies for a 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse with our Canadian marriage certificate.

 

Every year we either get a new affidavit of income letter from Canadian embassy or make sure 800K is on our Thai bank account and then I re-apply for 1 year extension based on retirement and wife re-applies for 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse (again with our Canadian marriage certificate).

 

If we were both to come in on either visa exempt or a tourist visa, wife would not be able to use the trailing spouse technique and we would both have to show 800K in a Thai bank account or get 2 affidavits of income from the Canadian embassy.

 

How does that sound? ????

 

 

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

What a Performance. Simply enter thailand “visa exempt” then use thai agent to get the retirement visa / extension / reporting / reentry permit, done all in thailand, with no financials / no documents/ no thai bank/ no USD 27k tied up here for years,  for about 30,000 baht each visa/ extn.

 

[pineappleglory]

Has there been any case where foreigners got into trouble using a visa agent in recent times by skipping some requirements?

[RoninTech]

11 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

What a Performance. 

 

It doesn't actually seem that big of a deal to us, especially if we can use the Canadian embassy for an income affidavit.  To each their own.

[BritTim]

53 minutes ago, RoninTech said:

Awesome info again skatewash.  Here is what I *think* we should do.  ????  Please point out any issues or improvements if you see a weakness with the strategy:

 

From Canada, I apply for a Non-O based on retirement and my wife applies for a Non-O based on being a trailing spouse.  We would not need to open up a Thai bank account for this.  Just prove that we have access to Canadian equivalent of 800K or 65K THB/month.  This will give each of us 90 days in Thailand.

 

Once we arrive in Chiang Mai after getting out of ASQ in BKK, we start the process of opening a Thai Bank account. 

 

Worst case scenario: After we open the Thai bank account, use Wise to move 800K plus living expense $ into it.  After the 800K THB has been in the account for 2 months, I apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement providing the bank account info to immigration.  At the same time my wife applies for a 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse using our Canadian marriage certificate.  Do they need the original marriage certificate?

 

Best case scenario: After we open the Thai bank account, use Wise to move living expense $ into it.  Using my T4 (Canadian tax statement) contact the Canadian Embassy in BKK (assume have to physically go there?) or maybe the Canadian Consulate in Chiang Mai to get an affidavit of income for myself.  I use the affidavit of income letter to apply for a 1 year extension based on retirement and my wife applies for a 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse with our Canadian marriage certificate.

 

Every year we either get a new affidavit of income letter from Canadian embassy or make sure 800K is on our Thai bank account and then I re-apply for 1 year extension based on retirement and wife re-applies for 1 year extension based on being my trailing spouse (again with our Canadian marriage certificate).

 

If we were both to come in on either visa exempt or a tourist visa, wife would not be able to use the trailing spouse technique and we would both have to show 800K in a Thai bank account or get 2 affidavits of income from the Canadian embassy.

 

How does that sound? ????

Your plans seem feasible and logical.

[BritTim]

34 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

What a Performance. Simply enter thailand “visa exempt” then use thai agent to get the retirement visa / extension / reporting / reentry permit, done all in thailand, with no financials / no documents/ no thai bank/ no USD 27k tied up here for years,  for about 30,000 baht each visa/ extn.

I do not in any way criticise those who decide to use agents in place of rigorous adherence to the rules. However, it is not surprising that those who are extremely risk averse would plan to do things strictly by the book. Using an agent is very low risk, but it is not zero risk.

[RoninTech]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

However, it is not surprising that those who are extremely risk averse would plan to do things strictly by the book. Using an agent is very low risk, but it is not zero risk.

Just to be clear, doing it by the book will save us a couple of grand Canadian a year over WhiteBuffalo's suggestion in exchange for some of our time, which we have lots of.  ???? 

[DrJack54]

9 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

What a Performance.

Agents are always an option.

Given that the chap is Canadian and can obtain embassy income letter and given that extensions based on retirement are a walk in the park. Also he can do all that and enter visa exempt and obtain a non O (retirement) very simple process. 

There is a current thread where guy has withdrawn funds from his account accidentally. In that case using an agent would be good option for him. 

In the case of this threads OP, there is no need for an agent. 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

fully respect those following the “rules”. we are all shaped by personal experience. heres my take:-

 

“the rules” can be and are legally waived by Imm. all the time , who are often the agents too.

due diligence in everything in life: agent should be suitably recommended & ideally an Imm. Officer.

agent reasonable cost is easily offset by having full control of the 800k/ 400k funds (x 2) indefinitely tied up. ensure agent secures retirement visa / extn only from your local IO for your reg. address. 

 

separately ensure your visa is on Imm. Computer thus being fully legal & irrevocable ( excepting jail / deportation !) & clear for airport Imm. applies using agent or not. you can use pretext of “stamp looks odd” to get IO or IO Volunteer to do that…..then you may ignore the usual jealous scare stories from the visa sheep here of “visa not legal”, etc. Imm. aint challenging any visa / extn issued on computer by themselves ! would be bad for “business” confidence. yes Imm. here is primarily a Business…..

 

avoiding financials clearly beneficial: Australian (& Canadian ? Not UK ) Pensions are Blocked for example, as IO report direct process retirement visas to your Home Govt….

personally I dont want ANY of my non- home country business routinely reported back to home govt.

such separation of thai & non - thai matters important to me…

if thai or home govt want to review or release my thai govt. data its all on govt. computers here…..

 

btw I have previously done the Home Embassy Retirement Visa (40 man hours work, embassy appd. in ten seconds) & experienced friends Thailand- based process often involving substantial problems ( overcome yes with time / money) . I will not risk being messed around like that (again) & value convenience & control , where possible, over blind obedience to arbitrary anti- foreigner “rules”. 

 

I love it here but we are not wanted, except for money. cannot own land & yearly “visa grubbing” with 3 mth “reporting” , for example, despite in my case being Invested here substantially with Property, Family, Time, etc

 

 

 

 

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

avoiding financials clearly beneficial: Australian (& Canadian ? Not UK ) Pensions are Blocked for example, as IO report direct process retirement visas to your Home Govt….

personally I dont want ANY of my non- home country business routinely reported back to home govt.

such separation of thai & non - thai matters important to me…

if thai or home govt want to review or release my thai govt. data its all on govt. computers here…..

 

Not sure I understand this paragraph.  For instance, not sure what "pensions are blocked" means.  As far as I'm aware Immigration Officers do not report retirement visas to your Home Government, IOs do not report anything to your Home Government.  Not even sure how they would go about doing this if they wanted to.  Not sure why they would even want to.  I'm a bit mystified about what you are talking about in this paragraph.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

you clearly “understand” my plain english, your problem obviously is “believing”…..

 

based on my Aussie friend’s specific case earlier this year, his IO do so report as there is appears to be an arrangement between the two govts to do so. So Aus Govt . would stop or suspend Pensions.

He confirmed this directly with his Oz Pension Co.  Might apply to other Govts, except UK.

he had to use an Agent for a “Chonburi” Ret. Visa to avoid this IO advised reporting to continue receiving his Oz Pension. Yet another clear benefit to Agent Use…….

 

my post is intended as useful information / consideration only.

I do not “prove” anything on TVF by member- beloved “links” or “ attachments”.

believe it or not and move on.

[skatewash]

6 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

you clearly “understand” my plain english, your problem obviously is “believing”…..

 

based on my Aussie friend’s specific case earlier this year, his IO do so report as there is appears to be an arrangement between the two govts to do so. So Aus Govt . would stop or suspend Pensions.

He confirmed this directly with his Oz Pension Co.  Might apply to other Govts, except UK.

he had to use an Agent for a “Chonburi” Ret. Visa to avoid this IO advised reporting to continue receiving his Oz Pension. Yet another clear benefit to Agent Use…….

 

my post is intended as useful information / consideration only.

I do not “prove” anything on TVF by member- beloved “links” or “ attachments”.

believe it or not and move on.

Thanks for the response.  As you suggest, I'll just be moving along.  Places to go, people to see.

[heliepoo]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:07 PM, Swiss1960 said:

MAIN advantage is that you don't need to fulfill the insurance requirements for the O-A

Seen several comments here about the insurance requirements but it's confusing because the Thai Embassy in Canada shows the following for the Non O:

 

4. Insurance – Applicant must have a health insurance for the duration of stay, with coverage for 4.1 outpatient treatment of no less than 40,000 baht and 4.2 inpatient treatment of no less than 400,000 baht

 

Is this something that we just need for the initial 90 days and not for the extension? Just trying to figure out how long we actually need to get the insurance for. 

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, heliepoo said:

Is this something that we just need for the initial 90 days and not for the extension?

It is only required to be valid for 90 days. Not required for a extension if you enter with a non-o visa.

[RoninTech]

Thought I'd post an update for future searchers of this topic.  We both applied for Non-Immigrant O (over 50) visas from Canada via the thaievisa.go.th website.  We simply uploaded our last 3 months of bank and investment statements.  No guarantee letter and/or signed/stamped statements were required by the Thai consulate in Vancouver.  We called to confirm this before we applied.  We now have our Non-Immigrant O visas.  We also spoke with the Canadian consulate in Chiang Mai who confirmed that they will supply an affidavit letter of income for my 1 year extension and we will have our original Marriage Certificate so wife can get an extension based on being my dependent.  So no 800K transfers to Thai bank required.  Thanks again for all the advice!

[RoninTech]

We just finished our first extensions.  Made online appointments yesterday for the Canadian consulate in Chiang Mai and the immigration office.  At the consulate I showed my Canadian Tax return with total income being above 65K THB x 12.  Also showed our original marriage certificate.  1250 THB and 20 mins later we had 2 stamped affidavits of income/marriage.  When we first sat down at the consulate I showed our bank and investment statements.  The lady would not accept these as they don't show 64K THB/month "income" no matter how big the balance is.  Fortunately I had my annual tax return showing total annual income which she did accept.

 

We took these affidavits to the immigration office along with TM7 stating "retirement"  for me and "spouse" for wife, TM30 plus a copy, passport pages, 1 passport photo each, TM47, copy of TM6, copy of marriage license and 2 x 1900THB.  Arrived at 1pm and left at 2pm including 20 mins getting our TM30s.  No under consideration, and other than 90 day reports we are good until 45 days before January 7, 2023 when we will repeat the process.  As we were basking in the glow of successful extensions we forgot to ask about getting a single re-entry permit for 1000 THB so will go back for that to avoid extra hassle on departure from Bangkok.

 

Very happy to avoid having to move 800K x 2 here so if your embassy/consulate still gives out these affidavits I'd highly recommend looking into it.