Electric vehicles of all kinds

[seedy]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is your idea of valid evidence? You think it's reasonable to accept alleged evidence about a few cars offered by an anonymous poster on the internet? Where do you publish the results of your research? The Journal of Because I Said So? And even if it's true, so what? You think statistical outliers are significant?. What don't you understand about such obvious points?

 

You are the one spouting nonsense about how long battery packs will last without one shred of evidence.

Show me an EV that has done 100,000 miles and original batteries ?

Show me one running solid state batteries ?

Look in the mirror for a link to "Journal of Because I Said So"

You Electric Jesus fans make me laugh - spouting mindless claims, promising the world while delivering a watch battery

555

 

[placeholder]

There seems to be some sort of weird belief in this thread that personal testimony has some disodsitive  value. For some odd reason, scientists and other researchers refer evidence based on  independently verifiable evidence. Like this study done by the Argonne Labs

Argonne study on costs and benefits of new transportation technologies the most comprehensive to date. As far as maintenance costs go, both battery electric vehicles and hybrid electric vehicles have lower maintenance costs than do ICE vehicles.

 

https://www.anl.gov/article/argonne-study-on-costs-and-benefits-of-new-transportation-technologies-the-most-comprehensive-to

[LarrySR]

16 minutes ago, seedy said:

You are the one spouting nonsense about how long battery packs will last without one shred of evidence.

Show me an EV that has done 100,000 miles and original batteries ?

Show me one running solid state batteries ?

Look in the mirror for a link to "Journal of Because I Said So"

You Electric Jesus fans make me laugh - spouting mindless claims, promising the world while delivering a watch battery

555

 

The Tesla Model 3's long range batteries are guaranteed for 120,000 miles while the body and drive units are designed for up to 1 million miles.
If you drive 15,000 miles a year, you can expect the Model 3's drivetrain to last up to 20 years. 
According to SolarReviews, current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules  will only cost $5k to $7k.

Now you know. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[seedy]

12 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

The Tesla Model 3's long range batteries are guaranteed for 120,000 miles while the body and drive units are designed for up to 1 million miles.
If you drive 15,000 miles a year, you can expect the Model 3's drivetrain to last up to 20 years. 
According to SolarReviews, current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules  will only cost $5k to $7k.

Now you know. 

And you believe Tesla ?

Look up credibility - Musk ain't Much

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, seedy said:

You are the one spouting nonsense about how long battery packs will last without one shred of evidence.

Show me an EV that has done 100,000 miles and original batteries ?

Show me one running solid state batteries ?

Look in the mirror for a link to "Journal of Because I Said So"

You Electric Jesus fans make me laugh - spouting mindless claims, promising the world while delivering a watch battery

555

 

I can't say you're being mindless, but as for clueless...

 

Vast majority of EV batteries will outlast their vehicles: report

 

New research released by Geotab measuring the battery life of 6,300 fleet and consumer electric vehicles has provided new insights regarding the lifespan of EV batteries.

“While there has been plenty of research done on battery health, there has been very little data following the real-world performance of EVs over time, let alone comparisons across different makes and models,” writes Charlotte Argue, senior manager of fleet electrification at Geotab. “Until now.”

https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/12/17/vast-majority-of-ev-batteries-will-outlast-their-vehicles-report/

 

Tesla claims its battery packs lose only ~10% capacity after 200,000 miles

https://electrek.co/2021/08/12/tesla-claims-battery-packs-lose-only-capacity-200000-miles/

And in this article, instead of an anonymous poster on thaivisa.com, at least we have a person we can identify and who can be held accountable for his claims.

 

The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last

[seedy]

Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive, has also come under fire for claiming that the software, an advanced driver-assistance system designed to handle road tasks such as maintaining speed or staying within a lane, was capable of taking full control of a vehicle.

https://www.ft.com/content/afb75ffd-44eb-4ae3-8bca-ae830fa52111

 

Just keep on believing Elon

[LarrySR]

10 minutes ago, seedy said:

And you believe Tesla ?

Look up credibility - Musk ain't Much

Now you’re getting silly. 
but you could be right. Maybe the Tesla guarantee is written with invisible ink and they will screw the customers. 
 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[seedy]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I can't say you're being mindless, but as for clueless...

 

Vast majority of EV batteries will outlast their vehicles: report

 

New research released by Geotab measuring the battery life of 6,300 fleet and consumer electric vehicles has provided new insights regarding the lifespan of EV batteries.

“While there has been plenty of research done on battery health, there has been very little data following the real-world performance of EVs over time, let alone comparisons across different makes and models,” writes Charlotte Argue, senior manager of fleet electrification at Geotab. “Until now.”

https://electricautonomy.ca/2019/12/17/vast-majority-of-ev-batteries-will-outlast-their-vehicles-report/

 

Tesla claims its battery packs lose only ~10% capacity after 200,000 miles

https://electrek.co/2021/08/12/tesla-claims-battery-packs-lose-only-capacity-200000-miles/

And in this article, instead of an anonymous poster on thaivisa.com, at least we have a person we can identify and who can be held accountable for his claims.

 

The bottom line here is that if it’s properly cared for, an electric car’s battery pack should last for well in excess of 100,000 miles before its range becomes restricted. Consumer Reports estimates the average EV battery pack’s lifespan to be at around 200,000 miles, which is nearly 17 years of use if driven 12,000 miles per year.

https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last

Should - is expected to - reported to be able - PR at its finest.

When they are shown to be as reliable as claimed, when they show they can be charged as fast as they claim, when charging stations capable of performing very fast charges as is being claimed, I will believe it.

All you are doing is repeating "Claims" - no real world figures.

When you can charge your EV in the same time as you fill up an ICE with fuel, people will buy them for cross country journeys.

Until that day - it is all "Pie in the Sky" and your "Claims" are just that - claims.

Like "Once Upon a Time ... EV makers claimed ... "

Edited October 16, 2021 by seedy

[LarrySR]

23 minutes ago, seedy said:

 

Just keep on believing Elon

His net worth went up around $9 billion last week. 
Someone should really contact those dumb investors and tell them some genius on the internet named seedy, insists they must be naive to believe him. 
 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, seedy said:

Should - is expected to - reported to be able - PR at its finest.

When they are shown to be as reliable as claimed, when they show they can be charged as fast as they claim, when charging stations capable of performing very fast charges as is being claimed, I will believe it.

All you are doing is repeating "Claims" - no real world figures.

When you can charge your EV in the same time as you fill up an ICE with fuel, people will buy them for cross country journeys.

Until that day - it is all "Pie in the Sky" and your "Claims" are just that - claims.

Like "Once Upon a Time ... EV makers claimed ... "

What nonsense. I'm citing the research of experts in the field. Scientists and engineers. And all you've got is derision and uninformed skepticism. But since you apparently believe in the relevance of individual testimony, did you note that in the article from Electrek the author's EV's battery lasted for over 300,000 miles?. And this report comes from someone whose real name is attached to this testimony. Or in your opposite world, is the only testimony of value that which comes from anonymous sources?

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, seedy said:

Should - is expected to - reported to be able - PR at its finest.

When they are shown to be as reliable as claimed, when they show they can be charged as fast as they claim, when charging stations capable of performing very fast charges as is being claimed, I will believe it.

All you are doing is repeating "Claims" - no real world figures.

When you can charge your EV in the same time as you fill up an ICE with fuel, people will buy them for cross country journeys.

Until that day - it is all "Pie in the Sky" and your "Claims" are just that - claims.

Like "Once Upon a Time ... EV makers claimed ... "

What do you mean no real world figures?. Do you think the people at Geotab are living in an alternative universe?. Do you think the engineers at Consumer reports are located on Mars? All you have is uninformed blanket skepticism to back you up. Well, to be fair, not quite. You've also got childish ridicule as a tool.  I'll go with the experts as would any rational person.

Edited October 16, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, seedy said:

Should - is expected to - reported to be able - PR at its finest.

When they are shown to be as reliable as claimed, when they show they can be charged as fast as they claim, when charging stations capable of performing very fast charges as is being claimed, I will believe it.

All you are doing is repeating "Claims" - no real world figures.

When you can charge your EV in the same time as you fill up an ICE with fuel, people will buy them for cross country journeys.

Until that day - it is all "Pie in the Sky" and your "Claims" are just that - claims.

Like "Once Upon a Time ... EV makers claimed ... "

I forgot your ridiculous claim that this is PR. Anyone who know anything about Consumer Reports, knows that it is fiercely  proconsumer and very very skeptical of corporations.

Consumer Reports (CR), formerly Consumers Union (CU), is an American nonprofit consumer organization dedicated to independent product testing, investigative journalism, consumer-oriented research, public education, and consumer advocacy.^[2]

Founded in 1936, CR was created to serve as a source of information that consumers could use to help assess the safety and performance of products.^[3] Since that time, CR has continued its testing and analysis of products and services, and attempted to advocate for the consumer in legislative and rule-making areas.^[

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports}

Frothing much?

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

There is that pesky word again - "Estimate"

As Tom Cruise said - "Show me the Money"

Most things are an estimate.  As everyone's driving style will differ, along with proper maintenance/charging of the batteries.

 

Your / human's life expectancy is an estimate.  Mid 70's now, but people die at year 1 and others live to 100.

The e-scooter I just bought, gives me 3 yrs warranty on motor, 2 on battery & 1 on the controller.

Honda gives you what for a warranty.

 

Since I'm well experienced with Lithium batteries, I expect to get about 800-1000 cycles of full charges.  Then probably 500 at least of 80 % or less.  Should last 5-10 yrs, depending on use, how many days the weather is good.  Since I'm going solar, basically free charging.  Though the estimate cost if not solar for a full charge is 5 baht.  

 

That's good for an estimate 100-150 range on full charge @ 35 kph.  So I'll get the low end of that, as 50 kph is my average / usual around the village & to and from the surf.  40 kms a day, if I do my usual 2 long circuits, so charge every 3 days if lucky, 2 if not.  1000 cycle X 2 = 2000 days / 365 = 5.5 yrs, but figure 1/3 a year it's rainy or I might not use, so add 1/3 more, and we're at about 7-8 years for the battery charging at 100 %  Few more years at 80%.  10 yrs use on negative side of the numbers.

 

New batteries will be better and cheaper in 10 years.  For me, it's a no-brainer, and I really like the power of the scooter.  Off the line nothing will touch it, mid is great, top end is limited, but staying under 90 kph will keep me alive ????  Riding around now in the car, I don't catch myself doing much more than 60 any more.  It will be me and dog on the scooter, which is 90% of the car driving, doing our 2 daily rounds of park & surf sniffin', and leaving a land mine here and there.

[placeholder]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:30 PM, seedy said:

This is the reason that solar/wind will not be a major player anytime soon.

This from USA but transfers world wide ...

“We have existing fossil plants where we’ve already paid to build them and the cost of producing one more unit of electricity is cheaper from using existing infrastructure than building new infrastructure in most cases. So given that we’ve already paid the upfront cost of this fossil fuel infrastructure, the economics don’t quite line up yet where we’re going to facilitate a rapid phase out of fossil fuel plants prior to the end of their life cycle.”

"But the solutions will require massive investments to develop and build the needed infrastructure."

“If you retire the natural gas plants sooner, rates will rise,” says Langer. “It’s either going to come out of your taxes or it’s going to come into your electricity bills.”

https://www.popsci.com/story/environment/cheap-renewable-energy-vs-fossil-fuels/

 Why did you neglect to include the Headline of that article? Here it is

Solar power got cheap. So why aren’t we using it more?

 

Actually, the thrust of this article is that wind and solar rices have dropped  precipitously. 

ANd you misleading cited a quote from the article to make it seem as though the problem lay with the cost of solar plants.. Here's what came right before that quote

 

 "These investor-owned utilities are guaranteed a certain rate of return on their investments in power facilities, which basically guarantees continued earnings in exchange for running those plants. Even if the actual market costs of their energy sources would make operations costly, these monopolies are set up so that that’s not really a concern.

“The thing that’s really preventing us from rapidly transitioning is what we call the lock-in effect,” says Paul.

https://www.popsci.com/story/environment/cheap-renewable-energy-vs-fossil-fuels/

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by placeholder

[Yellowtail]

20 hours ago, placeholder said:

The most common battery type in modern electric vehicles are lithium-ion and lithium polymer, because of their high energy density compared to their weight. Other types of rechargeable batteries used in electric vehicles include lead–acid ("flooded", deep-cycle, and valve regulated lead acid), nickel-cadmium, nickel–metal hydride, and, less commonly, zinc–air, and sodium nickel chloride ("zebra") batteries.^[1] The amount of electricity (i.e. electric charge) stored in batteries is measured in ampere hours or in coulombs, with the total energy often measured in kilowatt-hours.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery#Lead-acid

Lead acid batteries hold a small fraction of the charge that a lithium based battery can hold. They are no longer significant in the EV world.

So you went from none to some and from all to most common in an hour. How funning is that? 

 

And you still have to burn fossil fuel to charge them. You guys crack me up.

[Yellowtail]

19 hours ago, placeholder said:

Did you watch the video? He specifically says that Redwood Materials , by far the biggest recycle, is already profitable at the unit level. And that "mining" batteries is cheaper than mining the minerals because of the high concentration of metals in the scrap and the savings on transportation.

Yes, I watched it. Are you sure you did? 

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, LarrySR said:

These Fox viewers that consume a steady drip feeding of fossil fuel propaganda just crack me up.

Now that you brought it up, I'm still waiting for those links to the daily press releases you claimed the oil companies put out daily. I'm starting to think you just another liar making stuff up as you go along. 

[seedy]

This from Dec 2020 - no data for 2021 until year end. But just hilites what a Con Artist this guy Electric Jesus is ...

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by seedy

[Yellowtail]

The Tesla batty warranty is pretty hilarious. 

 

Vehicle Warranty | Tesla

 

Again, if EVs are so great, why all the mandates? 

 

And we still have to burn fossil fuel to charge them. 

 

But rich lefties can get the poor to pay for another of their toys that will help them believe they are saving the planet...

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Now that you brought it up, I'm still waiting for those links to the daily press releases you claimed the oil companies put out daily. I'm starting to think you just another liar making stuff up as you go along. 

We are just going to put you in the category of 'undereducated, enemy of science' and just leave it at that. 

Fortunately, every government on planet Earth (except Syria) has accepted the science and is onboard with the Paris Climate accord.

It doesn't matter what you or the Syrians believe. 

 

Now you can retire from this thread, go back to your comfort zone & the regularly scheduled viewing of Fox and hear every lie ever told about climate change.  

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

This from Dec 2020 - no data for 2021 until year end. But just hilites what a Con Artist this guy Electric Jesus is ...

 

Tesla DOOMED! Well, that video didn't age very well. The stock went up 934% LOL

 

Monday, Tesla released its Q2 financial disclosure, a record for Tesla, earning the company $USD1.1 billion in profit.

Tesla ended Q2 2021 with $USD619 million in free cash flow and $USD16.2 billion in cash and this is while being supply constrained with two new factories under construction.

 

Guess you shoulda bought the stock.

 

[Yellowtail]

38 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

We are just going to put you in the category of 'undereducated, enemy of science' and just leave it at that. 

Fortunately, every government on planet Earth (except Syria) has accepted the science and is onboard with the Paris Climate accord.

It doesn't matter what you or the Syrians believe. 

 

Now you can retire from this thread, go back to your comfort zone & the regularly scheduled viewing of Fox and hear every lie ever told about climate change.  

 

I knew you were lying...

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So you went from none to some and from all to most common in an hour. How funning is that? 

 

And you still have to burn fossil fuel to charge them. You guys crack me up.

Not nearly as funny as someone who believed that most EV's are powered  by lead acid batteries. What cave have you been hiding out in for the last 1O years? It's not incumbent upon you to share an opinion on a subject about which you know virtually nothing.. 

 

And as for your comment about fossil fuels. A moment's reflection might be a good idea for you. There is a huge installed base of fossil fuel  plants.  So naturally it will take time to replace them. But what percentage of new power plants that are being built are renewable? Not surprised that you don't seem to have a clue about this. Worldwide it's over 8O%

 

"IRENA’s annual Renewable Capacity Statistics 2021 shows that renewable energy’s share of all new generating capacity rose considerably for the second year in a row. More than 80 per cent of all new electricity capacity added last year was renewable, with solar and wind accounting for 91 per cent of new renewables.

Renewables’ rising share of the total is partly attributable to net decommissioning of fossil fuel power generation in Europe, North America and for the first time across Eurasia (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Russian Federation and Turkey)."

https://www.irena.org/newsroom/pressreleases/2021/Apr/World-Adds-Record-New-Renewable-Energy-Capacity-in-2020

 

You really should try and catch up. Because in the case of EVs and fossil fuel, you clearly are afflicted with fossilized opinions.

Edited October 16, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, seedy said:

This from Dec 2020 - no data for 2021 until year end. But just hilites what a Con Artist this guy Electric Jesus is ...

 

First off, thanks for providing the opinion of a guy who is completely free of any motivation to trash Tesla. Except for the tiny fact that he makes his living selling cars. But not Teslas. And the gist of his comments is that Tesla will be overwhelmed by EV's being built by rival car makers. In other words, he's not trashing EV's at all. What does it tell you that he believes multiples rivals will be appearing  on the scene? Do I really have to spell it out for you?

Edited October 16, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, I watched it. Are you sure you did? 

Is that all you've got? An echo? Trolling much? You claimed that based on this video none of these recycling ventures were profitable. I pointed out that the host of the show specifically said otherwise. 

"Did you watch the video? He specifically says that Redwood Materials , by far the biggest recycle, is already profitable at the unit level. "

[LarrySR]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I knew you were lying...

You really should watch the excellent documentary called "The brainwashing of my dad."

The sad tale of a nice family man that got drawn into the sinister right wing media echo chamber that systematically sucked the facts from his brain and destroyed a family.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by LarrySR

[sezze]

21 hours ago, seedy said:

And you believe Tesla ?

Look up credibility - Musk ain't Much

There isnt only Tesla , Polestar 2 claims warranty of 8y and 160.000km ( equals your 100K miles )  , Hyundai Ioniq 5 same warranty 8y/160000km . No need to believe Musk , there's plenty of other electric cars now around ( more and more each single day as we speak) , and rapidly evolving technology . 

[seedy]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I knew you were lying...

And the replies - pure deflection

Quotes about movies - but no links

The EV disciples - gotta laugh - "The End is Nigh" brigade"

555

[seedy]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

You really should try and catch up.

You gotta get out more

Google "New power plants worldwide"

China to build 600 new coal power plants

5 Asian countries account for 80% of new coal power

 

You know who builds renewable power plants - rich Western ones.

You know who builds coal plants - poor Eastern ones, as well as African ones.

Why - increasing demand, coal on hand, no tax base.

It's all about the money Baby

 

 

Your western thinking, we can save the world, look how good we are doing - listen to yourself.

Self Deluded much ?

Edited October 17, 2021 by seedy

[seedy]

But when we see headlines on progress in decarbonizing the electricity sector we need to remember that it is just one part of the energy story. If we don’t, we risk falling into a false sense of progress and let leaders, governments and companies boast targets that are not nearly ambitious enough.

https://ourworldindata.org/electricity-mix