Electric vehicles of all kinds

[Greenside]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I don't doubt demand is building, but it is not likely they would combine charge stations with traditional fuel stations, and I can't imagine a charge station would be profitable.

I don't see why you wouldn't combine charging with selling gas while there's still a significant demand for it.  Existing forecourts are going to have to change their business model in some way as the revenue from selling petrol and diesel declines and, judging by the area devoted to retail shops, restaurants and parking (I even noted a nail bar at one new site) it feels to me as if the developers have already seen the writing on the wall and are betting that tenants will pay a premium rent for a supply of potentially hungry, thirsty or just curious travelers with even 20 minutes to kill.   I'm just a bit disappointed that they aren't going a bit further and showing the public that the charging infrastructure is on the way.

 

At the dawn of commercial aviation, you probably wouldn't have dreamed that airports would turn out to depend on retail for a large part of their profits. 

[guzzi850m2]

20 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

In Australia, he is known as John the Bogan.  

Last year he claimed Tesla is doomed! LOL 

 

Bogans are uncouth, unsophisticated, repugnant clowns that must be kept separate from their female offspring to prevent errant mating activity. 

Probably an anti vaccine, climate change denier with a 'Trump 2020' bumper sticker on his car.

 

I can't stand him either, first and only time I watched him, I managed about 2 minutes and he got a thumps down and bye-bye. 

[Greenside]

5 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

In Australia, he is known as John the Bogan.  

Last year he claimed Tesla is doomed! LOL 

 

Bogans are uncouth, unsophisticated, repugnant clowns that must be kept separate from their female offspring to prevent errant mating activity. 

Probably an anti vaccine, climate change denier with a 'Trump 2020' bumper sticker on his car.

 

Yep, the guy's an idiot.  I overlooked the hillbilly style but the moment (about 90 seconds in) he described Tesla cars as <deleted>cans I couldn't stay.

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, Greenside said:

I don't see why you wouldn't combine charging with selling gas while there's still a significant demand for it.  Existing forecourts are going to have to change their business model in some way as the revenue from selling petrol and diesel declines and, judging by the area devoted to retail shops, restaurants and parking (I even noted a nail bar at one new site) it feels to me as if the developers have already seen the writing on the wall and are betting that tenants will pay a premium rent for a supply of potentially hungry, thirsty or just curious travelers with even 20 minutes to kill.   I'm just a bit disappointed that they aren't going a bit further and showing the public that the charging infrastructure is on the way.

 

At the dawn of commercial aviation, you probably wouldn't have dreamed that airports would turn out to depend on retail for a large part of their profits. 

Again, I do not see why anyone in an urban area would interested, at they will be generally be charging their cars at home. I'm in Bangkok and there seem to be quite a lot of charging stations in shopping areas. 

 

Pumps typically do not the area for much dawdling, particularly in urban areas. And as there are often lines, people will have to stay with the vehicle. Shopping centers make more sense, but you have to have self-service stations that accept credit cards and whatnot for payment. 

 

 

 

[seedy]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/13/nhtsa-asks-tesla-why-it-didnt-initiate-a-recall-after-safety-related-software-update.html

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-nhtsa-recall-autopilot-update/

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-asks-tesla-to-recall-158-000-cars-over-safety-issues/2109562

[KhunLA]

There's this thing called Google, for those the don't own an EV, and don't know where, the at least over 400 charging stations are.  If you can find the MG stations, then the dropdown from the same page, shows the other 4 service provider, EA being the next provider with the most stations.

 

Unless on the extreme outskirts of BumF nowhere, finding a charging station shouldn't be an issue.

 

And those Q,s, don't exist, as I've yet to see any of them being used, which is actually surprising, as I'd definitely plug in while shopping at the mall, if available.  And yes, they are at some petrol station, as I've noticed them at PTTs, as the only ones I use.  Be quite silly not to have them there, as captive audience to the vendor at their mall shops & food court.

 

All the providers have apps and payable right from your phone to app.  Along with loyalty programs, I think.  I'll be charging mine at home with solar, as soon as installed.

 

Lots of anti EV posting, but so far only 2 posters + myself actually own, and seem more than happy.  Sales are skyrocketing year after year, stocks making millions, billions for some (36b in 1 day), and I read 9 new billionaires in China, I think, this year, all vested in batteries.

 

BYD got the new wave battery, for those falsely & overly paranoid about safety.  Oh Yea ....

... CHINA ROCKS, and as always, the rest of the fossil burning world is falling way behind.  Except Tesla, though without China, wouldn't exist, at least at present level.

 

Just my thoughts

[macahoom]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There's this thing called Google, for those the don't own an EV, and don't know where, the at least over 400 charging stations are.  If you can find the MG stations, then the dropdown from the same page, shows the other 4 service provider, EA being the next provider with the most stations.

 

Unless on the extreme outskirts of BumF nowhere, finding a charging station shouldn't be an issue.

 

And those Q,s, don't exist, as I've yet to see any of them being used, which is actually surprising, as I'd definitely plug in while shopping at the mall, if available.  And yes, they are at some petrol station, as I've noticed them at PTTs, as the only ones I use.  Be quite silly not to have them there, as captive audience to the vendor at their mall shops & food court.

 

All the providers have apps and payable right from your phone to app.  Along with loyalty programs, I think.  I'll be charging mine at home with solar, as soon as installed.

 

Lots of anti EV posting, but so far only 2 posters + myself actually own, and seem more than happy.  Sales are skyrocketing year after year, stocks making millions, billions for some (36b in 1 day), and I read 9 new billionaires in China, I think, this year, all vested in batteries.

 

BYD got the new wave battery, for those falsely & overly paranoid about safety.  Oh Yea ....

... CHINA ROCKS, and as always, the rest of the fossil burning world is falling way behind.  Except Tesla, though without China, wouldn't exist, at least at present level.

 

Just my thoughts

Further to this:

 

I have two electric cars. Fantastic! I will never have a petrol or diesel car again.

 

Earlier this year, I twice drove from Phuket to Bangkok and back again.

In both directions, I stopped three times to recharge to 80%. Each charge took less that 30 minutes and while the car was charging, I took the opportunity to go to the toilet, stretch my legs, have coffee/lunch/dinner - whatever. If I had been driving an ICE car I would have stopped the same number of times for the same lengths of time.

 

I don’t know about the availability of charging stations on other roads throughout Thailand, but Phuket to Bangkok is not a problem. Note: The online info about charging stations is not really very good and annoyingly confusing.

 

Charging when out and about: 
There are three levels of charging: Rapid, Fast and Granny. Granny refers to the slowest method which is simply plugging into a normal domestic wall socket. Charging can be done at some PEA offices (rapid), some petrol stations (rapid), all MG showrooms (fast and rapid), some hotels (fast), some shopping malls (fast) and stores (fast), and I even came across a restaurant that had several fast chargers. In my experience, almost all hotels which don’t have a charging station will allow you to plug into a normal domestic socket and charge overnight. Only one hotel refused to do this.

 

Cost:
The fast chargers at shopping malls and hotels offer charging for free. Smaller, cheaper hotels sometimes charge you about 3 baht per unit for granny charging. The rapid chargers at PEA and petrol stations cost 4 - 4.5 baht per unit.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by macahoom

[KhunLA]

Network map for 3 of the larger service providers for EV charging stations.

 

[placeholder]

22 hours ago, seedy said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/13/nhtsa-asks-tesla-why-it-didnt-initiate-a-recall-after-safety-related-software-update.html

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-nhtsa-recall-autopilot-update/

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/us-asks-tesla-to-recall-158-000-cars-over-safety-issues/2109562

Tesla Surpasses $1 Trillion in Market Value as Hertz Orders 100,000 Vehicles

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hertz-orders-100-000-teslas-11635167670

[placeholder]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:39 PM, Yellowtail said:

I don't doubt demand is building, but it is not likely they would combine charge stations with traditional fuel stations, and I can't imagine a charge station would be profitable. 

 

In urban areas, the pump's bread and butter are daily drivers. Who would trade with them? Virtually everyone buying EVs are charging them at home. 

 

In rural areas the pumps are dependent on longer distance drivers and what few locals they have. People driving long distances are not likely to have EVs. 

 

The time issue is not insignificant. If you have a 12-pump station, you'd need 36-pump station (+ or -)  to put the same number of vehicles through. 

 

And you still have to burn fossil fuels to charge the batteries. 

You're assuming that battery charging times will remain the same and that renewables aren't steadily increasing their share of the electric power market

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You're assuming that battery charging times will remain the same and that renewables aren't steadily increasing their share of the electric power market

No, I'm not assuming that. 

 

I am assuming that as the percentage of EVs grow, a lot more grid power will be needed, and barring some groundbreaking new technology, existing renewables will be mostly useless for this in urban areas. To much power needed in too little area. 

 

Even if you get the charge time down to zero, I do not see any significant demand for e-pumps in urban areas where people will likely be charging there cars at home. 

 

No doubt you see things differently. 

[sezze]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, I'm not assuming that. 

 

I am assuming that as the percentage of EVs grow, a lot more grid power will be needed, and barring some groundbreaking new technology, existing renewables will be mostly useless for this in urban areas. To much power needed in too little area. 

 

Even if you get the charge time down to zero, I do not see any significant demand for e-pumps in urban areas where people will likely be charging there cars at home. 

 

No doubt you see things differently. 

Charge time to 0 maybe can be but electricity in is electricity in . To load 50kW of battery power ( electric cars have batteries of 30-80 kW ) to load in 1 sec you need 50kW * 3600 second is a 180.000kW load , or simply said , a complete powerplant , only to charge your car . It creates huge powersurges since the grid can't take that kind of jumps up and down . ---> meaning , even if you dream about that and the battery can do , it will not happen .

It is much better to charge slow , much less influence on the grid . This all comes to a behavior change , petrol : drive your tank low and go to petrol station to fill it up again and drive again the same thing . Electric , most people drive lower distance 99% of the time . So when you drive like 50-100km in a day , you can easily come home , put in in your home at standard slow charge and it will be ready for you filled up again . Only if you cover 300+ km in a day , for more days after each other , faster charging is needed .

If it is some kind of smart grid , then the electric charging can be coupled to see which car needs the most , at what time , so the influence on the grid can be much much lower .

This said , you surely need extra electric power from the grid , since the electricity does not go in that wires from nowhere .

[guzzi850m2]

11 hours ago, macahoom said:

Further to this:

 

I have two electric cars. Fantastic! I will never have a petrol or diesel car again.

 

Earlier this year, I twice drove from Phuket to Bangkok and back again.

In both directions, I stopped three times to recharge to 80%. Each charge took less that 30 minutes and while the car was charging, I took the opportunity to go to the toilet, stretch my legs, have coffee/lunch/dinner - whatever. If I had been driving an ICE car I would have stopped the same number of times for the same lengths of time.

 

I don’t know about the availability of charging stations on other roads throughout Thailand, but Phuket to Bangkok is not a problem. Note: The online info about charging stations is not really very good and annoyingly confusing.

 

Charging when out and about: 
There are three levels of charging: Rapid, Fast and Granny. Granny refers to the slowest method which is simply plugging into a normal domestic wall socket. Charging can be done at some PEA offices (rapid), some petrol stations (rapid), all MG showrooms (fast and rapid), some hotels (fast), some shopping malls (fast) and stores (fast), and I even came across a restaurant that had several fast chargers. In my experience, almost all hotels which don’t have a charging station will allow you to plug into a normal domestic socket and charge overnight. Only one hotel refused to do this.

 

Cost:
The fast chargers at shopping malls and hotels offer charging for free. Smaller, cheaper hotels sometimes charge you about 3 baht per unit for granny charging. The rapid chargers at PEA and petrol stations cost 4 - 4.5 baht per unit.

 

 

What EV's do you have if you don't mind me asking?

[macahoom]

52 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

What EV's do you have if you don't mind me asking?

PM sent.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

No, I'm not assuming that. 

 

I am assuming that as the percentage of EVs grow, a lot more grid power will be needed, and barring some groundbreaking new technology, existing renewables will be mostly useless for this in urban areas. To much power needed in too little area. 

 

Even if you get the charge time down to zero, I do not see any significant demand for e-pumps in urban areas where people will likely be charging there cars at home. 

 

No doubt you see things differently. 

Why do you think that a power plant has to be located near an urban center?It's not a matter of seeing things differently but facts. New York City gets part of its power from Niagara falls, which is 370 miles distant. Or take the case of Texas. Its big wind power projects are located in the sparsely  western, northern, and southern portions of the state but sent to the densely inhabited parts of central and eastern texas. That's hundreds of miles. 

And the latest HVDC power lines can transmit current about 600 miles with only a 1.6% loss of power.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, sezze said:

Charge time to 0 maybe can be but electricity in is electricity in . To load 50kW of battery power ( electric cars have batteries of 30-80 kW ) to load in 1 sec you need 50kW * 3600 second is a 180.000kW load , or simply said , a complete powerplant , only to charge your car . It creates huge powersurges since the grid can't take that kind of jumps up and down . ---> meaning , even if you dream about that and the battery can do , it will not happen .

It is much better to charge slow , much less influence on the grid . This all comes to a behavior change , petrol : drive your tank low and go to petrol station to fill it up again and drive again the same thing . Electric , most people drive lower distance 99% of the time . So when you drive like 50-100km in a day , you can easily come home , put in in your home at standard slow charge and it will be ready for you filled up again . Only if you cover 300+ km in a day , for more days after each other , faster charging is needed .

If it is some kind of smart grid , then the electric charging can be coupled to see which car needs the most , at what time , so the influence on the grid can be much much lower .

This said , you surely need extra electric power from the grid , since the electricity does not go in that wires from nowhere .

Another mitigating factor is that most home charging can be done in the evening when power demand on the grid tends to be a lot lower

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:44 AM, LarrySR said:

Battery powered aircraft range is now up to 250 miles. 

Carrying a VERY veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy  low  number of  people  (nine) well thats going to be economical for the pasenger, you  live in a dream world  where your  "religion" has clouded  your  mind, where everyone  who mentions drawbacks is a climate denier where you are  unable to post a link to frequently asked questions. There will be  no electric long haul  hi capacity aircraft due to energy density and weight..............never mind revert to you drawl of "Fox  news" unlike yourself I  will  post a link, sorry its  not fux  news 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200617-the-largest-electric-plane-ever-to-fly

 

The first thing to note is that long-haul flights by large aircraft are not going to become fully electric any time soon. Certainly not within the next 50 years – and the jury’s out as to whether that will even happen this century. The reason is energy density.

 

The power density in aviation fuel is high, in the neighbourhood of 12,000 watt hours per kilogram. A lithium ion battery is only in the region of 200 watt hours per kilogram.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Rampant Rabbit

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/26/2021 at 1:27 PM, LarrySR said:

Now available for orders. The Jetson One, vertical takeoff, battery powered, personal aircraft.

 

 

With a  15 ,YES fiteen minute  flight time and $100000, you  know it  makes  sense, of course any sensible realist would  get a  GLIDER

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:47 PM, LarrySR said:

In Australia, he is known as John the Bogan.  

Last year Tesla sold 500,000 units and he claimed "Tesla is doomed!"

This year Tesla will sell well over 800,000 units. 

 

Bogans are uncouth, unsophisticated, repugnant clowns that must be kept separate from their female offspring to prevent errant mating activity. 

Probably an anti vaccine, climate change denier with a 'Trump 2020' bumper sticker on his car.

 

Must be why he has an engineering degree  then

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:47 PM, LarrySR said:

Probably an anti vaccine, climate change denier with a 'Trump 2020' bumper sticker on his car.

You have just  proven yourself to be  ill  informed , hes  none of those and regularly promotes it often castagating the govt  over vaccines  and lambasting Trump. Your head is stuck  so  far up your electric  backside you make  yourself  look stupid.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Rampant Rabbit

[sezze]

Electric aviation , even the industry is seriously looking about that . It isnt there yet , but even the industry says that in relative short time frame (10-15y) short haul flights can be done electrical . Long haul is not on the table yet , unless they find other ( aka much higher energy density , way beyond what is known now ) types of battery.

Saying like it isnt there since only tests are done and the airplane can only do 9 person for 250 miles , remember that 15y ago electric cars did not exist ( well they did 100y ago ) , let alone with a range of 100 miles . Even 5 years ago 200 mile range was about the maximum . Technology is evolving fast , and yes it will take a few years , but it is way closer then you might think .

There are many many hurdles , for all this electrification of transport , but it is fast moving in . It will create other problems ( like the charging capacity , grid not up to date , ... ) but just see the speed it is evolving , and you see that within 20years , a whole lot is gonna be very different .

[LarrySR]

50 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Must be why he has an engineering degree  then

What’s that Bogan have a degree in? Picking his nose? 


 

[Rampant Rabbit]

4 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

What’s that Bogan have a degree in? Picking his nose? 


 

the  clue is  in your qoute

[Rampant Rabbit]

39 minutes ago, sezze said:

Electric aviation , even the industry is seriously looking about that

Airbus abandoned their electric  fan 2  years  ago

[Rampant Rabbit]

41 minutes ago, sezze said:

short haul flights can be done electrical

No they cant, you cant  carry anything like the weight, even short  haul wirth 180  people  on plus  luggage, sure a  few  people 10 or  so but thats it

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

With a  15 ,YES fiteen minute  flight time and $100000, you  know it  makes  sense, of course any sensible realist would  get a  GLIDER

Thanks for your information.
I’m gonna call Norway immediately, tell them they are really dumb and have them contact you. 
 

Norway has mandated, by 2040, all civil domestic aviation in will be electrified aircraft. 

By 2030, the first ordinary domestic scheduled electric flights will be in operation. 

[Rampant Rabbit]

Just now, LarrySR said:

Norway has mandated, by 2040, all civil domestic aviation in will be electrified aircraft. 

By 2030, the first ordinary domestic scheduled electric flights will be in operation. 

Hilarious, please , keep them coming

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

You have just  proven yourself to be  ill  informed , hes  none of those and regularly promotes it often castagating the govt  over vaccines  and lambasting Trump. Your head is stuck  so  far up your electric  backside you make  yourself  look stupid.

Whereas this Bogan's failed predictions about Tesla make him look intelligent?

[LarrySR]

10 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

the  clue is  in your qoute

I could see why he is against battery powered cars.  
He’s got a job fixing carburetors in his driveway. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Carrying a VERY veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy  low  number of  people  (nine) well thats going to be economical for the pasenger, you  live in a dream world  where your  "religion" has clouded  your  mind, where everyone  who mentions drawbacks is a climate denier where you are  unable to post a link to frequently asked questions. There will be  no electric long haul  hi capacity aircraft due to energy density and weight..............never mind revert to you drawl of "Fox  news" unlike yourself I  will  post a link, sorry its  not fux  news 

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200617-the-largest-electric-plane-ever-to-fly

 

The first thing to note is that long-haul flights by large aircraft are not going to become fully electric any time soon. Certainly not within the next 50 years – and the jury’s out as to whether that will even happen this century. The reason is energy density.

 

The power density in aviation fuel is high, in the neighbourhood of 12,000 watt hours per kilogram. A lithium ion battery is only in the region of 200 watt hours per kilogram.

50 years? Anything else from that crystal ball to report?

Maybe it has a filter that keeps out the develop of such technologies as structural batteries.

 

http://sustainableskies.org/massless-batteries-aircraft/

https://innovationorigins.com/en/how-researchers-plan-to-integrate-the-structural-battery-into-aircraft-components/

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2482/electric-airplanes-batteries-included/

 

And keep in mind that fossil fueled engines are a lot more inefficient than electric powered engines.