U.S. Topic -- What does it mean to be an American abroad in a time of a historically severe civil war like crisis back home?

[bojo]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I've noticed a certain feeling out process when two American strangers meet here. Not getting explicitly into it at first but dropping code words and phrases.

When two tribes meet, there's often gonna be different signals flying about

 

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There was something very dramatic historically divisive showing on the t.v. in the waiting room at the time. I noticed the Americans there watching it closely but they all seemed to be careful not to give away their side of the divide in that particular setting and definitely not in the mood to get into a political argument with strangers there. Of course an embassy is a very special and unusual setting.

Yes unusual setting etc, true..................but IMO, I don't think folks abroad really wanna get into the political divide and are probably relieved to 'not give away their side'........................................I think that your interpretation of others' body language suits your theory only but not necessarily the general consensus of most American's abroad. After all, they've escaped the madding crowd to a more tranquil place, why would they want to get back into the fire.......................

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bojo said:

When two tribes meet, there's often gonna be different signals flying about

 

Yes unusual setting etc, true..................but IMO, I don't think folks abroad really wanna get into the political divide and are probably relieved to 'not give away their side'........................................I think that your interpretation of others' body language suits your theory only but not necessarily the general consensus of most American's abroad. After all, they've escaped the madding crowd to a more tranquil place, why would they want to get back into the fire.......................

Sorry I disagree. 

It was because it was in the embassy.

I've seen plenty of raw open conflict here between Americans.

[bojo]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry I disagree. 

That's OK, we can beg to differ.......................

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Americans wouldn't know an intellectual if they tripped over one

Oops sorry, did I trip over you? ????

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, bojo said:

When two tribes meet, there's often gonna be different signals flying about

 

Yes unusual setting etc, true..................but IMO, I don't think folks abroad really wanna get into the political divide and are probably relieved to 'not give away their side'........................................I think that your interpretation of others' body language suits your theory only but not necessarily the general consensus of most American's abroad. After all, they've escaped the madding crowd to a more tranquil place, why would they want to get back into the fire.......................

I for one plan to return to the USA later on in a more permanent way so what goes on is of importance to me. Hopefully the current tribe doesn't screw things up beyond repair.

[Jingthing]

On the we're already in.a kind of civil war premise of this topic that's for the most part about a cultural civil war where Americans on the different sides deeply hate each other. That's certainly bad enough but the idea that this can evolve to an actual civil war is not fringe anymore.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/poll-civil-war-expectations-reach-new-high-71-of-trump-voters

 

According to a new survey, a record high 71% of President Trump's supporters believe the country is headed toward civil war.

What’s more, 40% of President-elect Joe Biden's supporters agree.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jingthing

[seedy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

On the we're already in.a kind of civil war premise of this topic that's for the most part about a cultural civil war where Americans on the different sides deeply hate each other. That's certainly bad enough but the idea that this can evolve to an actual civil war is not fringe anymore.

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/poll-civil-war-expectations-reach-new-high-71-of-trump-voters

 

According to a new survey, a record high 71% of President Trump's supporters believe the country is headed toward civil war.

What’s more, 40% of President-elect Joe Biden's supporters agree.

8 January 2021 - NEW ?

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, seedy said:

8 January 2021 - NEW ?

There are other recent similar surveys.

This isn't about events right at this moment but a muli year historical era akin to the other examples given. Civil War, great depression,WW2.

.

[chicowoodduck]

First thing to do is get off of FOX News, second thing, do not listen to all the fake news....????????????????

 

The anti American spin doctors are working over time at the moment....just ride the wave and not get too overly excited  about the news from across the pond....it has little of no effect on you...chill out and enjoy your time in Thailand.....end of story....????????

[malibukid]

America is a failed state and is sad portrait of its former self.  i got sick of it 20 years ago and saw the writing on the wall and got the hell out.  most Americans are adverse to travel and so will go down with the ship.  i am happily watching it from abroad self destruct.  the American people deserve what they now have.  thanks to Trump and Regan all the progress that was made in the last 60 years is gone.  this is just a happier place to be for me.

Edited October 2, 2021 by malibukid

[jasonsamui55]

23 minutes ago, malibukid said:

America is a failed state and is sad portrait of its former self.  i got sick of it 20 years ago and saw the writing on the wall and got the hell out.  most Americans are adverse to travel and so will go down with the ship.  i am happily watching it from abroad self destruct.  the American people deserve what they now have.  thanks to Trump and Regan all the progress that was made in the last 60 years is gone.  this is just a happier place to be for me.

Well said! It when and why I left also. The patriot act and the ensuing rise of police state was the last straw. I didn’t want to raise kids in a country like that. And since then I’ve lived in 7 countries. My kids get the benefit of choice. And we can sit back with a bowl of popcorn and watch the US Civil war on the pro-American news channels like CNN or FOX or others. Much better that way.

Edited October 2, 2021 by jasonsamui55

[KhunLA]

The spin of 'Civil War' in the MSM.  It's always been like that, since the 1st official Civil War.  150 yrs later, and they are still using the same distraction of division among the masses.

 

Stay distracted, and they continue to reap the benefits, your tax dollars.  There will never be a civil war in USA, unless it's good for business, which it isn't.  Stop watching MSM, and you'll find all the problems they report, don't exist.

 

It's not as if anyone there has the intelligence, or cares enough to fix any issues.  Seems nobody really cares, as they keep re-electing the same criminals over & over.  Som naa na

 

“We’ve been conditioned to think that only politicians can solve our problems. At some point, maybe we will wake up and recognize that it was politicians who created our problems!” - Ben Carson

 

As long as the lobbyist control the politicians, there won't be change, until the people want to change it.  Either they don't care, or are simply too ignorant or stupid to change anything.  Sadly it appears to be the latter.

[1FinickyOne]

The rice fields that stretch behind my house remain very green. Plenty of birds and quiet. 

 

So many back home in usa seem so stressed and from what i read people are angry and afraid

 

I drive to the store to buy 20 kg of dog food. The workers there make jokes. I make jokes. We laugh. As i leave one lady calls out in English.. "see you tomorrow" though i only come once a month. Its not really funny but everyone joins in a hearty laugh. 

 

People at dinner tables in Usa have the same newsy argument every day. That does not sound like a formula for a happy life. 

 

I am getting older and a bit achier every year. We have a big functional family. Some have health issues but we deal with them together. 

 

An afternoon foot massage and a nap are a good idea. 

 

I have a friend who worked hard all his life and has a quite hefty savings. Where he lives not far away are encampments of homeless. At night he dreams he is homeless and wakes in a sweat..

 

When i show people here, even poor people, videos of inner cities in usa,  filthy and looking bombed out w street people everywhere.. they cant believe it. 

 

I know i will never go back and i am ok w that. The country I left 20 years ago is probably no longer there.. 

 

I am mostly happy here as i am in the presence of people who are mostly happy. Country people. Simple people your intellectuals might say.. 

 

Many yrs ago I skirted the nyc cocktail party intellectual scene. Mostly a nasty and snide group. I find my under educated family and friends here smarter in the ways that matter to me. They enjoy life. 

 

What was your question? 

[frantick]

OP: Political rant

 

Also OP: Don't get political

 

And OP: Hollywood Ken Burns is an intellectual

 

Living here in Thailand, I only worry for the freedoms being lost in my home country that I'll eventually return. 

[EVENKEEL]

Opinions, opinions. I'll wager that many who don't have any kind words for the USA are the ones who probably couldn't afford to go back. So, they tell themselves it's all better here in Thailand.

[wwest5829]

13 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

I am not aware that America is self destructing.. yet.  Changes are afoot for sure.  Previous minority groups are now a very large portion of the population and they are electing persons to office and setting policies that some don't like.  Welcome to the election process.

 

  The courrupt politicians have not changed much and probably never will.  The national or local election issues are strange, that's for sure.  Sad we can not do a solid verifiable online voting instead of all the machinations, polls closeing, gerrymandering, etc.  

 

  Race issues are not new and I doubt it will be going away.  Immigration... is a tough one.   most countries have strict immigration policies and if thousands showed up at their borders it would be considered an invasion. 

 

  I was a young teen during the Vietnam mess.  But amazingly not that much was actually taught in school to us at the time. So my real time memories are jaded with what I later learned. 

 

 

The recent divide is COVID and Biden and others literally trying to criminalize people that do not have vaccinations. And now mandating under penalty of termination to get vaccinated for millions of Americans.  But at the same time, exempting groups such as the US Postal Workers.  Lawsuits are hitting the courts and time will tell.

 

  I have friends starting contract work at Electric Boat.  Only 50% of their current workforce is vaccinated.  Biden and the advisory committee seem to be saying all workers and sub tier contractors must be vaxed by Jan 2.   Good, bad or indifferent, these mandates are causing a lot of strife between workers, agencies, families, etc.  I find it irrational that vaccinated people are so worried about unvaccinated people.  Are they doubting their own vaccines?  When they go shopping, they have no idea who at the market or the mall has been vaccinated so forcing it on co workers seems ineffective.

 

  I made some calls and could not find any JJ vaccinations available all up and down Florida from Orlando, to Daytona to Melbourne, to Palm Beach.  All the pressure is to get Pfizer or Moderna, and I checked dozens of websites for availability and not one that said they had JJ actually had it when I called several CVS, Wallgreens, Publix, and a few private pharmacies.  Sounds like a money and market grab and maybe time to look at PFizer's books.  Remember a few years back when Congress took the Oil companies to court to collect windfall profits?  Is Pfizer making piles of money off of this?  Due to the nature of the issue, I bet nobody will question Pfizer.

 

  Electing a very old person to President may be becoming too frequent.  Senility and dimished capacity is a big issue.  

You will want to readdress the USPS comment as they are covered by the federal requirements.

 

[wwest5829]

11 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Opinions, opinions. I'll wager that many who don't have any kind words for the USA are the ones who probably couldn't afford to go back. So, they tell themselves it's all better here in Thailand.

True as regards not being able to have a working middle class retirement in the US, Millions of us are priced out of the market in our own country. I can have a working middle class retirement on 65K baht a month ... in the US, it might well be a rusting trailer in Florida or Arizona.

 

[TKDfella]

As an Englishman, I don't think I could generalise and say what is happening in the US is similar to the (alleged) divide caused by Brexit. The US situation is more complex and I suspect, been brewing for years. I wonder if such a large accumulation of States isn't more like and 'empire' or 'commonwealth'. Throughout history the world has seen various attempts to combine nations under one banner, so to speak, the French, Spanish, British, USSR, China etc. not to mention those that fell apart in ancient history. I hasten to add that most of those were done by some 'conquering technique' and I am not qualified to say whether or not the US Civil War lay in that category. I think it is true to say that the US has been the leading power in the world for years so perhaps the the 'wheel has turned' and it is time for change.

It seems that some expats came to Thailand to get away from their home country but I don't think that is always so. I, for one didn't and those American expats who came to Thailand for a different reason, must be genuinely concerned.

[Peterphuket]

It is not only in the USA, it is more and more of a global problem.

Divisiveness is deliberately created.

In many countries in Europe happens the same.

And it is not only because covid.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, jasonsamui55 said:

Well said! It when and why I left also. The patriot act and the ensuing rise of police state was the last straw. I didn’t want to raise kids in a country like that. And since then I’ve lived in 7 countries. My kids get the benefit of choice. And we can sit back with a bowl of popcorn and watch the US Civil war on the pro-American news channels like CNN or FOX or others. Much better that way.

There is a bit of irony ... pointing out a police state while we live under a military coup government. True, does not seem to affect me

[wwest5829]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The first reply out of the gate ignoring the needed guidance that we cannot have a political debate here.

 

Not surprised but I did try.

 

Sigh.

Its all politics. Fortunately, the politics in the US resulted in my getting my Pfizer shots just as if I was in the US territory .. OK, a bit delayed. Otherwise happy to be "offshore" watching from a distance.

[jingjai9]

I have spent many years abroad as an American. I recall:

 

that It was sometimes difficult for Americans when Bush was in office. I even saw several Bin Laden T-shirts, I think more so because he "looked cool" than about his politics.

 

Obama was OK

 

During Trump -  not so bad. He more or less appeared entertaining to folks here in Thailand. I cannot recall many Thais actually saying they did not like Trump.

 

Biden - not in the news every day and many people here in Thailand do not seem to be able to tell me who the current US president.

 

What does it mean to be an American living abroad? It means I can avoid:

- - -  the culture wars 

 - - - Thanksgivings where topics of conversation have to be monitored at the table during the big             meal

 - - - being hugged every two seconds when I interact with people. 

[kingstonkid]

14 hours ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

I just tell folks in LOS im from Canada, eh.....I carry timbits from Tim Hortons in my pocket for proof..please thailand let me back in so I can escape this horrible place..

You sound a lot like American back packers in the 70's and 80's  Even in the 90's, if a Canadian ws spotted with their Tim mug or Cdn flag on their backpack they could make a killing.

 

Same thing in the 90's when I was in Pakistan every American car wanted a cdn flag sticker for the trunk or bumper.  

 

Wherever I went as soon as I introduced myself I had to give the person a CDN embassy business card as proof I was not an American.

 

The only thing that Pakistani's and a lot of countries want from Americans is their money.  

 

We talk about double pricing hell in Pakistan they had/have triple price.  

 

X for a Pakistani

XX for anyone not Pakistani except 

XXXX for Americans and Brits

 

As to the topic the solution is simple to understand but hard to enact.   Follow the rules as they are laid out, provide a good basic education the 3 R's find ways not only to educate the poor but to find them jobs that are meaningful.

 

OH YEAH stop telling people that they are where they are because they are black, white, pink, brown or purple with pink polka dots.

 

Remember and live by MLK.  I can guarantee you that Blacks have it a lot better than they did 30 /40 years ago

 

In the military or in sports there is no colour.  The players on a team or in a military unit only know one thing that they are all trained to do a job and that the guy beside them whether he is Gay white black does not matter as long as he has your back and you have his.

 

Also stop this you can't say this or can't say that.

 

People need to do 2 things listen and be heard.  You never know you might learn something.

 

 

[Tom89]

14 hours ago, Airalee said:

What does it mean?

 

It means that if you care so much about it, you should probably go home so that you can join whichever protest/march/demonstration that fits your fancy…whatever side of the aisle you sit on…instead of thinking you make a difference from half a world away.

Agreed. I left the US in 1989. I lived in another country for many years before coming to Thailand 2 years ago. I basically don't care anymore and laugh at the whole circus when I see it on the news.

[newnative]

     As an American living abroad I find it all very depressing and I see few signs for optimism.  With the election of Biden, who spent so many years in Congress, I was hoping that legislative body would get back to the way it worked in the somewhat distant past--a bill is proposed, it's debated, compromises are made on both sides, and it's voted on, usually garnering support from members of both parties.   Even polarizing presidents like Nixon were able to get legislation passed and accomplish things.

    These days that hardly ever seems to be the case.  Look at the struggle to pass the infrastructure bill--which in normal times would be seen as beneficial to the whole country and should be getting good support from both parties.  Instead it's just endless bickering on both sides and neither party wants to be seen as compromising and neither party wants the other to be seen as doing anything beneficial.  Politics used to be 'the art of compromise'.  Sadly, not much evidence of that any more in America.  Now, it's become the art of who can make the most outrageous statements, true or not mattering not a whit. 

    Unfortunately, that attitude spills over on to everything else--the best current example being the vaccine debate.  Trump made a big push to develop vaccines quickly--and, give him credit, he was successful.  Score one point for the Republicans.  Then, he dropped the ball badly on the vaccine rollout after the election, when he lost interest in everything except spouting his Big Lie that he won re-election.   Score one point for the Democrats.

    So, we're even at this point, one score each.  Biden gets into office and gets good publicity for rapidly sorting out the vaccine rollout and getting things going smoothly--scoring a lot of points.  Well, can't have that.  So, suddenly, getting vaccinated becomes political.   Biden wants to get 70% vaccinated.  Can't have him reach that goal so if you're a good Republican you'll skip the vaccination. 

   There's no doubt in my mind that if Trump had won the election, vaccination would not have become politicized, or at least not to the extent that it has become.  He would have strongly pushed, just like Biden, to get 70% vaccination or more--and the economy back roaring again.  Just makes sense--you need high vaccination to get the country back open and the economy back on track.

   From abroad, I find it madness that something like vaccination, which should be about as apolitical as anything, would become a political weapon.  The same with mask-wearing--how did that ever become a Democrat or Republican thing.  One side is for it so, of course, the other side must be against it--never mind if that makes sense or not.  These days not enough Americans, bombarded from all sides by social media, all sorts of movements, sketchy 'news' shows, and warring politicians, are taking the time to think if something makes sense or not, if something is right or wrong. 

[malibukid]

2 hours ago, jasonsamui55 said:

Well said! It when and why I left also. The patriot act and the ensuing rise of police state was the last straw. I didn’t want to raise kids in a country like that. And since then I’ve lived in 7 countries. My kids get the benefit of choice. And we can sit back with a bowl of popcorn and watch the US Civil war on the pro-American news channels like CNN or FOX or others. Much better that way.

the last straw for me was when i was recovering from IMRT for prostate cancer.  anyway one of the side effects is that you have to urinate a lot since the radiation causes swelling of the bladder.  i was in WLA and urgently ran across the street to a restaurant to use the gents.  L.A. cops see this and pulls over and follows me into the restaurant.  i explained the situation and he would not give me a pass.  but instead gives me a $100 ticket for jaywalking.  i told him than that i would be on a tropical island somewhere and that he would still be playing cop..  next day i went to my internist in BH and got a letter that i sent to the court.  cased dismissed.  but i left after i was well enough to receive my travel shots.

Edited October 2, 2021 by malibukid

[RocketDog]

15 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

I am not aware that America is self destructing.. yet.  Changes are afoot for sure.  Previous minority groups are now a very large portion of the population and they are electing persons to office and setting policies that some don't like.  Welcome to the election process.

 

  The courrupt politicians have not changed much and probably never will.  The national or local election issues are strange, that's for sure.  Sad we can not do a solid verifiable online voting instead of all the machinations, polls closeing, gerrymandering, etc.  

 

  Race issues are not new and I doubt it will be going away.  Immigration... is a tough one.   most countries have strict immigration policies and if thousands showed up at their borders it would be considered an invasion. 

 

  I was a young teen during the Vietnam mess.  But amazingly not that much was actually taught in school to us at the time. So my real time memories are jaded with what I later learned. 

 

 

The recent divide is COVID and Biden and others literally trying to criminalize people that do not have vaccinations. And now mandating under penalty of termination to get vaccinated for millions of Americans.  But at the same time, exempting groups such as the US Postal Workers.  Lawsuits are hitting the courts and time will tell.

 

  I have friends starting contract work at Electric Boat.  Only 50% of their current workforce is vaccinated.  Biden and the advisory committee seem to be saying all workers and sub tier contractors must be vaxed by Jan 2.   Good, bad or indifferent, these mandates are causing a lot of strife between workers, agencies, families, etc.  I find it irrational that vaccinated people are so worried about unvaccinated people.  Are they doubting their own vaccines?  When they go shopping, they have no idea who at the market or the mall has been vaccinated so forcing it on co workers seems ineffective.

 

  I made some calls and could not find any JJ vaccinations available all up and down Florida from Orlando, to Daytona to Melbourne, to Palm Beach.  All the pressure is to get Pfizer or Moderna, and I checked dozens of websites for availability and not one that said they had JJ actually had it when I called several CVS, Wallgreens, Publix, and a few private pharmacies.  Sounds like a money and market grab and maybe time to look at PFizer's books.  Remember a few years back when Congress took the Oil companies to court to collect windfall profits?  Is Pfizer making piles of money off of this?  Due to the nature of the issue, I bet nobody will question Pfizer.

 

  Electing a very old person to President may be becoming too frequent.  Senility and dimished capacity is a big issue.  

So in fact you did exactly what the OP ask replies not to do: you gave us your side of the debate, and clearly partisan at that.

Well done. NOT!

 

[Jingthing]

A member complained that I had posted a stale survey. Here's a fresh one.

 

The new American normal. Political opponents aren't just political opponents. They are ENEMIES. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10050039/More-HALF-Trump-voters-want-red-states-secede-union.html

 

America thinks the unthinkable: More than half of Trump voters and 41% of Biden supporters want red and blue states to SECEDE from one another and form two new countries, shock new poll finds 

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A member complained that I had posted a stale survey. Here's a fresh one.

 

The new American normal. Political opponents aren't just political opponents. They are ENEMIES. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10050039/More-HALF-Trump-voters-want-red-states-secede-union.html

 

America thinks the unthinkable: More than half of Trump voters and 41% of Biden supporters want red and blue states to SECEDE from one another and form two new countries, shock new poll finds 

Idiots come in all colors.

[rwill]

If it is a civil war it must be courteous and polite.  No problem.

 

The only affect any of the news in the US has on me is too make me glad I am here.