They not only sold our clan history, they distorted the truth. Dam Athena and her Perseus dog. And where was Poseidon, that water rat?

You're Greek than, eh?

You bring up something that I have thought about, where people go to see art, Europe and sometimes America. Cities getting tourist dollars for pieces of culture that aren't theirs. I have met people who wanted to go to the UK to see Asian art but for whatever reason, fear what have you , wouldn't go to Asian to see the same art. Funny, eh? So, I wonder, if these works were returned would that mean people would travel to these "other" places that they wouldn't before, thus making more international connections and engaging in cultural exchange, or just stay home? Would it be good for these countries to get these pieces back?

Not wanting to go to Asia has nothing to do with art...it has to do with the well known fact that Asia is dirty and you can't trust Asian people because they think different and aren't honest...it doesn't even bother them that they're not honest and think different....go figure!!!!

They not only sold our clan history, they distorted the truth. Dam Athena and her Perseus dog. And where was Poseidon, that water rat?

You're Greek than, eh?

Don't tell anybody, Bebop. We interbred with Irish and one Viking to erase those traits. Also got a Chinese branch of the clan; it happens (errant shipping mogul on the horse side) -- the Guo family, decendents of the Shi pirate chick.

They not only sold our clan history, they distorted the truth. Dam Athena and her Perseus dog. And where was Poseidon, that water rat?

You're Greek than, eh?

Don't tell anybody, Bebop. We interbred with Irish and one Viking to erase those traits. Also got a Chinese branch of the clan; it happens (errant shipping mogul on the horse side) -- the Guo family, decendents of the Shi pirate chick.

Wow, that's great mix!!

To Jet Gorgon

You're Greek than, eh?

The only way you could know this, is if you knew which way she liked to face in bed.

Bops, do tell us more?

To Jet Gorgon

You're Greek than, eh?

The only way you could know this, is if you knew which way she liked to face in bed.

Bops, do tell us more?

Oh, Kayo , you did not go there did you? You dirty sod.

You could argue, for example, that the culture of the ancient Egyptians has no relevance on modern-day Egypt and should modern-day Egyptians be the custodians of history, simply down to the fact that these things happened in their country millenia ago...

Good point but then what relevance does the cultures of ancient Greece and Egypt have on say the UK and should the British be custodians of historical artifacts just because we stole them? The artifacts are merely the evidence of history not history itself so does custodianship mean anything at the end of the day? But it would be nice if the people who emerged from that history got to keep the originals of the evidence. If you were a descendant of Turner and had one of his paintings would you be happy if someone nicked it and gave you a copy as a replacement?

If they wanted to keep their art perhaps they should have fought harder.

If they wanted to keep their art perhaps they should have fought harder.

Ouch.... no.... I have to disagree with that one.

The rise of the British Empire was down to the fact that we had guns and the opposition had sharpened banana leaves, not really a fair contest.

Any 'spoils of war' obtained during that period should be returned to their rightful owners (once it has been ascertained that they can and will give said object the same level of care)

Art reflects history, history teaches, we all need to attend that class.

//edit/I like to edit

Come on now chaps. Let's not go down the collective British guilt thing. Every nation has done It's fair share of looting. The Brits perhaps being slightly better at the conquest thing in modern times and more open in showing and maintaining what they stole.

Ya, it's a bit like redrawing borders many years after a war or giving reparations. At least in the UK, anyone can go to a public museum; the V&A is entry by donation (or it was when I lived in London), so if you have no money you don't need to pay to enrich your mind. They also take very good care of their collections.

" Giving back " to relatives seems to be in vogue at the present. Maria Altmann the niece of Gustav Klimt fought long and hard to get her uncle's paintings back, sadly stolen from the family by Austrian/ German Nazis.

She won her case, museums coughed up the works, and the lovely old lady promptly sold them with " Portrait of Adele-Baauer " 1907. fetching the record figure of 135 Million USD.

Now did the little old lady say to the auction house " Oi only sell to reputable museums, who will show the work to all . "

Errrrrr no.

It could well have gone to the jungles of Columbia to grace the halls of some cartel's Casa,....... until rivals, or the nice Government troops ( backed by the good old US of A ), blew the place up. In the eighties, it almost certainly would have hung on the directors wall of Lookiatmyknackers Corporation in Japan.

Begs the question yet again of who owns Art, and without responsibility, is it right to deny that ownership ?

At the risk of sounding like a communist , art belongs to the people!

Limpy, one of my first real jobs in Tokyo was at a PR firm, and Yasuda was one of our clients. I was there to unwrap the Gogh sunflower painting the owner bought. To my absolute horror, and before anyone questioned whether the $40m purchase was a fake, they hung it in the co's "art gallery" in a small room facing a little painting by Grandma Moses.

" Giving back " to relatives seems to be in vogue at the present. Maria Altmann the niece of Gustav Klimt fought long and hard to get her uncle's paintings back, sadly stolen from the family by Austrian/ German Nazis.

She won her case, museums coughed up the works, and the lovely old lady promptly sold them with " Portrait of Adele-Baauer " 1907. fetching the record figure of 135 Million USD.

Now did the little old lady say to the auction house " Oi only sell to reputable museums, who will show the work to all . "

Errrrrr no.

It could well have gone to the jungles of Columbia to grace the halls of some cartel's Casa,....... until rivals, or the nice Government troops ( backed by the good old US of A ), blew the place up. In the eighties, it almost certainly would have hung on the directors wall of Lookiatmyknackers Corporation in Japan.

Begs the question yet again of who owns Art, and without responsibility, is it right to deny that ownership ?

I remember this!! This really p i ss ed me off. What a con job, ggggggrrrrrrr!

To Jet Gorgon

You're Greek than, eh?

The only way you could know this, is if you knew which way she liked to face in bed.

Bops, do tell us more?

Oh, Kayo , you did not go there did you? You dirty sod.

Go where???? What on earth are you thinking abou- OH MY F>>>ing GOD, you are NOT thinking THAT ARE YOU???

You dirty Sod!!

To Jet Gorgon

You're Greek than, eh?

The only way you could know this, is if you knew which way she liked to face in bed.

Bops, do tell us more?

Oh, Kayo , you did not go there did you? You dirty sod.

Go where???? What on earth are you thinking abou- OH MY F>>>ing GOD, you are NOT thinking THAT ARE YOU???

You dirty Sod!!

I like you......you make me laugh.

At the risk of sounding like a communist , art belongs to the people!

So, if I make something you deem to be art, I should lose ownership of it?