Type 2 Diabetes improving.

[ScotlandtheBrave]

Yesterday the lovely doctor who first diagnosed my diabetes a few years ago told me at my quarterly review appointment that I could stop taking the Glipizide now. So I am on Metformin 500mgs twice daily now. When I was first diagnosed my blood sugar was over 600 (safe level 90 - 130) and I had to go on Insulin for the first three months. I have lost a lot of weight, down from 97 kilos to 79 kilos now. The doctor indicated that there is some research to show it may be possible to actually recover completely, but I would need to lose a lot more weight rapidly. She talked about Intermittent Fasting regimes, which I need more information about. Any thoughts?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“Dr. Berg” You Tube Videos. Simple Clear Expert. Followed them myself.

Weight Loss. High Energy.Plant Based Diet. HIIT Exercise. Intermittent Fasting. Diabetes.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, ScotlandtheBrave said:

have lost a lot of weight, down from 97 kilos to 79 kilos now. The doctor indicated that there is some research to show it may be possible to actually recover completely, but I would need to lose a lot more weight rapidly. She talked about Intermittent Fasting regimes, which I need more information about. Any thoughts?

While you can never recover completely you can get into permanent remission. I would ask to see any papers referring to the need for rapid weight loss.
 

Weight loss (if needed, what is your BMI?) and severely cutting  your intake of things like sugar water drinks (coke 7up etc) to zero, cutting out all fruit juices (whole fruit is OK) as they have more sugar than soft drinks. Reduction in carbohydrate rich foods like bread, cakes, bagels, doughnuts, rice etc. increase consumption of things like green vegetables. All of that will help.

 

There are many papers backing up the things listed above. I have never seen a peer reviewed paper suggesting that rapid weight loss is beneficial. In fact it is usually worse as to reduce quickly requires a very severe diet restriction that is unsustainable long term and often leads to rebounding and gaining back all the lost weight.

 

getting your carbs in vegetables that take time to digest is far better than in bread, rice etc where processing in your gut is fast so giving a blood sugar spike.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

While you can never recover completely you can get into permanent remission. I would ask to see any papers referring to the need for rapid weight loss.
 

Weight loss (if needed, what is your BMI?) and severely cutting  your intake of things like sugar water drinks (coke 7up etc) to zero, cutting out all fruit juices (whole fruit is OK) as they have more sugar than soft drinks. Reduction in carbohydrate rich foods like bread, cakes, bagels, doughnuts, rice etc. increase consumption of things like green vegetables. All of that will help.

 

There are many papers backing up the things listed above. I have never seen a peer reviewed paper suggesting that rapid weight loss is beneficial. In fact it is usually worse as to reduce quickly requires a very severe diet restriction that is unsustainable long term and often leads to rebounding and gaining back all the lost weight.

 

getting your carbs in vegetables that take time to digest is far better than in bread, rice etc where processing in your gut is fast so giving a blood sugar spike.

 

Fully agree with the above.

 

As you have already lost 18 kg I don't think you need any fancy methods to weight loss and these can do more harm than good....as can rapid weight loss (which will also leave you with sagging skin).  Also, unless you are rather short, you may already be at a good body weight.

 

Stick to good diet, avoiding processed carbs especially,  and get adequate exercise (on an ongoing basis - avoid fad work outs and the like).

 

 

 

 

[jts-khorat]

Adding to what @WhiteBuffaloATM has written: besides Dr. Berg, there is a Dr. Sten Ekbert on YouTube.

 

Both explain extremely well, in relatively simple terms, why and how Insulin resistance and too much Insulin acts on the body and how to reverse the damage done, with lots of very specific advice on which food to eat and which to avoid (they basically advocate a fairly strict Keto diet) and how to plan the Intermittent fasting (the latter is to increase times between higher Insulin events, giving the body time to regenerate).

 

Their advice has helped me to loose quite a lot of weight, too, and I feel much healthier and physically active now.

 

As you are already on a very good track with that, the most difficult hurdle seems to be already behind you, so I wish you luck for the last few steps before you.

[86Tiger]

 

 

I have done quite extensive reading on this topic lately.  

 

Went for routine blood check and blood sugar indicated type 2 diabetes level.  Scared me to death, so immediately began researching.  One thing I did find was a reported study (did not see the study, only summary) done by NIH indicating reversal of type 2 had seen success if the condition was caught early enough by losing 10% - 15% body weight extremely quickly.  Recommendation was 500 - 700 calorie diet until the weight was gone. 

 

However, that was the only hope I ran across for reversal of the condition.  What I learned is by time type 2 is diagnosed, in most cases, the cells in liver and pancreas that produce enzymes to deal with blood sugar are dead and can not be revived.  And I am recalling this from memory so don't crucify me if I am incorrect on some of the terms.  Moral of story is type 2 diabetes does not occur over short period and by time discovered the body has been abused too many years.

 

However, in my case there is a happy ending.  The blood test is of course fasting test and I did fast for approx. 10 hours before the blood draw.  But one other detail I was never made aware of is alcohol should not be consumed 24 hrs (and some recommend 48 hrs) prior to the blood draw.  Well, I had a double scotch with early dinner night before and wallah all my numbers were off.  2 weeks with great diet, 30 minutes exercise every day and no alcohol all my number are good.

 

So, I was scared straight.  No more <deleted> food and I will be maintaining my exercise routine.

 

Good luck on your health. 

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

However, that was the only hope I ran across for reversal of the condition.  What I learned is by time type 2 is diagnosed, in most cases, the cells in liver and pancreas that produce enzymes to deal with blood sugar are dead and can not be revived.

I think from the reading I have done that that is incorrect. The first point is that insulin is not an enzyme and that the liver doesn’t produce it. The next point is that many people with type 2 diabetes have it controlled by diet, so all of them have somewhat functional insulin systems. Next is that weight loss and diet changes do reverse type 2 diabetes in some/many, again showing that the system is functioning.

 

you are probably conflating 2 studies or results from 2 parts of studies 

Quote

The results were clear-cut: individuals with very ordinary type 2 diabetes (up to 4 years duration) regained absolutely normal fasting glucose levels within 7 days of commencing a very low calorie diet.

7 days diet extreme low calorie will induce drastic weighted loss by loss of water not by significant loss of fat

and 

Quote

Substantial weight loss achieved by any means can bring about remission of type 2 diabetes,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6399621/
 

I can’t find (it doesn’t mean there isn’t one) a paper that shows that rapid weight loss is required.

 

an 8 week extremely low calorie diet may help but you need medical supervision for such an extreme diet. Also the starting BMI is almost certainly a factor 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Tiger: based on your post, I would probably have become diabetic type 2 if I had stayed working in Milan, pubs, restaurants, no exercise much,  38in bloated waist, eating western meats pasta desserts alcohol etc. i had become borderline pre diabetic end 2019. Been in Thailand since March 2020.

 

The tropical living has enabled research time and resultant complete Dr. Berg Diet / Exercise / Sleep / Relax lifestyle change. Daily Fast Fin Swims. Gym Bike / Weight sessions. Plant Based Diet. Lost 10 kg. now 35-36 in waist. Then gained more muscle in gym / pool. no junk food.; no alcohol. low carb. never smoked or taken drugs.Sizzler Salad Bar three times weekly !  One Meal a Day, etc.

 

Disaster Averted I believe.

[Oxx]

The leading researcher in weight loss and diabetes is Professor Roy Taylor of Newcastle University, England.  He has demonstrated that

 

"Type 2 diabetes is simply caused by excess fat within the liver and pancreas. In the liver, this fat causes a poor response to insulin and it produces too much glucose. In the pancreas, the fat inhibits insulin secretion."  https://www.ncl.ac.uk/research/impact/casestudies/diabetes/

 

One of his key papers is  "Very Low-Calorie Diet and 6 Months of Weight Stability in Type 2 Diabetes: Pathophysiological Changes in Responders and Nonresponders", published in Diabetes Care in 2016.  Its conclusion:

 

"A robust and sustainable weight loss program achieved continuing remission of diabetes for at least 6 months in the 40% who responded to a VLCD by achieving fasting plasma glucose of <7 mmol/L. T2DM is a potentially reversible condition."

 

VLCD = Very Low Calorie Diet

T2DM = Type 2 Diabetes Melitus.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27002059/

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

@Oxx that is interesting, unfortunate that only 40% were successful, though those with a shorter duration of T2DM were more likely to benefit, also that organ fat deposits were an indicator if probable?potential T2DM.

 

I was able to go from a concerning level of internal fat deposits to virtually zero by a change of diet composition without any significant reduction in calorie intake.

[Oxx]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:41 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

I was able to go from a concerning level of internal fat deposits to virtually zero by a change of diet composition without any significant reduction in calorie intake.

Unless you had an MRI, you would not know your level of internal fat in the key organs, the pancreas liver.  It is thought that with a VLCD fat is burned from these organs.  With a less extreme diet fat may be taken primarily from elsewhere in the body, such as the abdomen.

[sometimewoodworker]

47 minutes ago, Oxx said:

Unless you had an MRI, you would not know your level of internal fat in the key organs, the pancreas liver.  It is thought that with a VLCD fat is burned from these organs.  With a less extreme diet fat may be taken primarily from elsewhere in the body, such as the abdomen.

You have no idea of any medical procedures of mine and I have shared as much information as I am comfortable with. You are welcome to believe or not as you like.

[sandyf]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:42 AM, ScotlandtheBrave said:

The doctor indicated that there is some research to show it may be possible to actually recover completely, but I would need to lose a lot more weight rapidly.

I know for a fact that a friend of mine in his 80s cured himself by losing weight. Didn't happen overnight, went on a very strict diet and took about a year I think.

[ThailandRyan]

A good read if you can find it is Think Like a Pancreas by Gary Scheiner, it lays out a history and then what one needs to do.  I found it very helpful when I was diagnosed as a diabetic after a surgical procedure where things done caused my body to turn off my pancreas.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

I know for a fact that a friend of mine in his 80s cured himself by losing weight. Didn't happen overnight, went on a very strict diet and took about a year I think.

He did not "cure" himself. He put his DM into remission. Were he to regain the weight etc, he would again be diabetic. The tendency towards it has not been cured. He may also temporarily re-experience it if he has a major infection or undergoes surgery etc.

 

Many - arguably most - Type 2 diabetics can get their blood sugar under control with weight loss, diet and exercise, if they are able to do those things and stick to them. (Easier said than done, of course).

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

He did not "cure" himself. He put his DM into remission. Were he to regain the weight etc, he would again be diabetic. The tendency towards it has not been cured. He may also temporarily re-experience it if he has a major infection or undergoes surgery etc.

 

Many - arguably most - Type 2 diabetics can get their blood sugar under control with weight loss, diet and exercise, if they are able to do those things and stick to them. (Easier said than done, of course).

He believes he has cured himself, and at 88 years old he is probably right.

 

[FruitPudding]

Anyone know how much muscle mass a person should have for decent/efficient blood sugar control?

 

Or is it more about body fat percent?

[khlongtoey]

I believe most Adult-onset DM2 is related to insulin resistance ;  whereby the receptor cell for insulin are "worn-out" , I'm guessing this isn't "curable" .

 

We were taught, DM2 is really a cardiovascular problem or lets say multi-system ;  7-11 doesn't help.

[mstevens]

10 hours ago, khlongtoey said:

I believe most Adult-onset DM2 is related to insulin resistance ;  whereby the receptor cell for insulin are "worn-out" , I'm guessing this isn't "curable" .

 

We were taught, DM2 is really a cardiovascular problem or lets say multi-system ;  7-11 doesn't help.

 

The modern research seems to suggest that diabetes is essentially caused by carbohydrate overload. Cut back on or even eliminate entirely the carbs in your diet and your A1C number will start heading down. Depending on how high your A1C is, it could take a number of months for it to get down to 5.6, at which point you're no longer considered diabetic.

[KhunLA]

This may interest a few, like myself, always told to cut back on sugar or may be headed toward D2.   Or if you are there and think you're stuck there.   Worth a peek no matter.  Or simply some advice on eating healthier.

 

Type 1 ... may find some thing to help regulate you diabetes.