Pattaya retirees feel “trapped” in Thailand because of insurance

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I didn't have a visa.

I had a re-entry permit and a return ticket from UK to Thailand and back. They took the length of stay as the date on the return leg of the ticket.

Feel perfectly free to say they were wrong, along with everyone else that checked the documents.

Reality is what it is, not what you would prefer it to be.

You did have a visa  a Non IM-O , which you had extended by a year. Either   based on marriage or retirement. 

So I would assume your length of stay in Thailand would be the time remaining in your extension. and you would need to get insurance for that time. 

Am I correct?  I am not saying that I am , I don't know,   Thailand is so screwed up. 

   I am actually doing the same as you and leaving on a multiple entry , going to Greece with the wife , and while there , I will look into moving our base of operations there  and only coming to Thailand for vacation in the winter. (I qualify for a Greek passport)  

My extension to stay expires in April, and by the time I come back there will only be two or three months left in it, so That's all I should need insurance for. 

we will come back , and then go again it April when my extension expires, stay the summer, and , next time I come back it will be on a Non Im-O based on marriage which will give me 3 months with a two month extension for a total of 5 months, 

If we decide to stay longer we will see what the requirements are by then,

But the way this craziness in Thailand is heading, I don't see myself staying here long term. 

What you think about all of this? I like to know your opinion as you have actual experience in leaving and coming back on an extension to stay.

 

 

  

[Leaver]

44 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You did have a visa  a Non IM-O , which you had extended by a year. Either   based on marriage or retirement. 

So I would assume your length of stay in Thailand would be the time remaining in your extension. and you would need to get insurance for that time. 

Am I correct?  I am not saying that I am , I don't know,   Thailand is so screwed up. 

   I am actually doing the same as you and leaving on a multiple entry , going to Greece with the wife , and while there , I will look into moving our base of operations there  and only coming to Thailand for vacation in the winter. (I qualify for a Greek passport)  

My extension to stay expires in April, and by the time I come back there will only be two or three months left in it, so That's all I should need insurance for. 

we will come back , and then go again it April when my extension expires, stay the summer, and , next time I come back it will be on a Non Im-O based on marriage which will give me 3 months with a two month extension for a total of 5 months, 

If we decide to stay longer we will see what the requirements are by then,

But the way this craziness in Thailand is heading, I don't see myself staying here long term. 

What you think about all of this? I like to know your opinion as you have actual experience in leaving and coming back on an extension to stay.

 

 

  

 

 

In years gone by, a post such as yours would have been met with a flurry of replies such as "don't let the door hit you on the way out" etc etc.  Not so now. 

 

I doubt you are the first to revert to your Plan B, nor will you be the last. 

 

Good luck to you, and you can always come back on tourist visas, which will be more on your terms, rather than Thai immigration's.   

[Leaver]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:12 PM, HashBrownHarry said:

Let me tell you a story....

 

I had a bad injury to my hand 2 years ago, almost lost my thumb. When the incident happened i went to a government hospital coz it's 10 minutes from my house. They removed the bloody towel my hand was wrapped in, took one look at the wound and said there was nothing they could do. Then they gave me one paracetemol and told me to be on my way.

 

I had to be driven 3 hours to a good private hospital where i went straight into surgery ( 23:00 ) and had 26 stitches put in my hand. Two years later scar has healed well, no loss of movement only some numbness.

 

So, the Thai SS hospitals are better than nothing, i would tend to disagree!

 

So, I guess you are giving private hospitals in Thailand the thumbs up.   ????  

[HashBrownHarry]

15 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

So, I guess you are giving private hospitals in Thailand the thumbs up.   ????  

You're sharp as a bowling ball you are......don't miss a trick - lol

[CRUNCHER]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:40 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Travel insurance should be sufficient

You miss the point of this thread.  Travel insurance is not available for retirees who live here.

As to the suggestion of using visa exempt or tourist visa think again.  A couple of those and retirees will not be allowed in.  That has happened before.

For those who got insurance when they were younger, there is no guarantee that their policies will meet requirements, especially since none of them will specifically cover Covid 19.

I can easily  cover US$ 50,000 with money in the bank, but I object to being forced to pay for insurance I do not want. Self insurance is not on the list of requirements. Also the money I have saved in premiums over the years would more than cover the US$ 50,000 requirement.

The problem is that the Thailand Pass is geared towards  tourists, which Thailand so badly needs, but has failed to take into account the plight of retirees. Some I know are here on a shoe string, but many of us have brought a lot of money into the country over the years. Now we are being ripped off.

Edited November 6, 2021 by CRUNCHER

[JustAnotherHun]

22 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

You miss the point of this thread.  Travel insurance is not available for retirees who live here.

It is available for retirees who kept residency in their country of origin, which I would recommend for everyone as a minimum backup plan.

 

Quote

As to the suggestion of using visa exempt or tourist visa think again.  A couple of those and retirees will not be allowed in.  That has happened before.

How many of the hundreds of thousands in pre covid times were denied entry. There were a handfull reports about problems.

 

Quote

Some I know are here on a shoe string, many of us have brought a lot of money into the country of the years. Now we are being ripped off.

Why should Thailand have to be grateful to those people?

They came here for the cheaper life, the better climate and the girls, not for altruistic reasons

[CRUNCHER]

45 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

It is available for retirees who kept residency in their country of origin, which I would recommend for everyone as a minimum backup plan.

 

How many of the hundreds of thousands in pre covid times were denied entry. There were a handfull reports about problems.

 

Why should Thailand have to be grateful to those people?

They came here for the cheaper life, the better climate and the girls, not for altruistic reasons

Why should I go to the expense and trouble of keeping a residence in my home county just to get travel insurance when I live in Thailand? As to using a relatives address since I do not live there would be making a false declaration to get insurance; undoubtedly a criminal offence. Submitting a false statement to the Thai Government to the effect that I have valid insurance when I do not is definitely a criminal offence.  Travel insurance is usually valid for 30 days or, sometimes 60 days. No good if I live here all year round.

I do not know how many people were denied entry because of too many visa exempt or tourist visa.  Certainly more than a handful just from reports on Thai Visa over the years.  Further, many who relied on tourist visa from surrounding countries were denied them for having too many.  At best they got a stamp in their passports saying "no more". The reports on Thai Visa were likely the tip of the iceberg. 

I am certainly here for the life style, but that does not mean that the money I have contributed to the Thai economy can be so easily dismissed. It is a two way street. I pay my way, but that does not mean that I have to take out insurance I do not want and do not need.

I never said I expected gratitude. I only want equitable treatment.

Edited November 6, 2021 by CRUNCHER

[JustAnotherHun]

37 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

Why should I go to the expense and trouble of keeping a residence in my home county just to get travel insurance when I live in Thailand?

If you decide to live permanently in a country like Thailand, where you cannot count on you have any rights and rules you like will not change and decide not to keep residency at home - up to you. But the you should not whimper if things turn wrong for you.

Quote

As to using a relatives address since I do not live there would be making a false declaration to get insurance; undoubtedly a criminal offence. Submitting a false statement to the Thai Government to the effect that I have valid insurance when I do not is definitely a criminal offence.

I did not recommend to make false statements. Keep a correct residency, pay your tax and social security costs there and everything is legal. If you don't want to do, up to you.

 

Quote

 Travel insurance is usually valid for 30 days or, sometimes 60 days. No good if I live here all year round.

Depending on age you can get travel insurances up to 2 years.

 

Quote

I do not know how many people were denied entry because of too many visa exempt or tourist visa.  Certainly more than a handful just from reports on Thai Visa over the years.

Further, many who relied on tourist visa from surrounding countries were denied them for having too many.  At best they got a stamp in their passports saying "no more". The reports on Thai Visa were likely the tip of the iceberg. 

Most of those who got problems for "stay in Thailand too much" tried to bypass the rules. Bypassing rules is always risky. Buy an EV, apply for permant residency, or apply on yearly extensions of stay. There are enough ways.

 

Quote

I pay my way, but that does not mean that I have to take out insurance I do not want and do not need.

Sure you have to be insured as soon as Thailand states that as a rule. It's not up to you as a foreigner to decide.

 

Quote

I never said I expected gratitude. I only want equitable treatment.

You can want what you like but you should be aware where and in which kind of country you are.

Edited November 6, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

As to using a relatives address since I do not live there would be making a false declaration to get insurance; undoubtedly a criminal offence.

 

It's only becomes a criminal offense IF you make a claim.  

 

 

18 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

Submitting a false statement to the Thai Government to the effect that I have valid insurance when I do not is definitely a criminal offence. 

 

Is it?

 

It's an insurance policy.  The fact that the insurance company may not, or will not pay out, may be irrelevant for the purposes of entry into Thailand.  

 

21 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

Travel insurance is usually valid for 30 days or, sometimes 60 days.

 

Wrong.

 

Travel insurance can be purchased for months and months. 

 

22 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

I do not know how many people were denied entry because of too many visa exempt or tourist visa.  Certainly more than a handful just from reports on Thai Visa over the years.  Further, many who relied on tourist visa from surrounding countries were denied them for having too many.  At best they got a stamp in their passports saying "no more". The reports on Thai Visa were likely the tip of the iceberg. 

 

Sure, but the ground is shifting under our feet here. 

 

 I expect insurance to be a requirement for the retirement visa / extensions in the future.  if your objection to insurance is so strong, I suggest you start looking towards your Plan B, as I am sure many others are now casting an eye over.

 

27 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

I am certainly here for the life style, but that does not mean that the money I have contributed to the Thai economy can be so easily dismissed.

 

Wrong.

 

With the stoke of a pen in Bangkok, all the money you have contributed can be easily dismissed.  Not to mention, many may not even be able to reside in their own house / condo here in the future.

 

It's one thing to own a property here.  It's another thing being allowed to stay here and live in it.  

 

29 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

It is a two way street. I pay my way, but that does not mean that I have to take out insurance I do not want and do not need.

 

You'll do what the Thai government says you will do, or overstay, or leave.  They are your only options here.  

 

30 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

I never said I expected gratitude. I only want equitable treatment.

 

You are in the wrong country for equality.  Not only for foreigners living here, but just look at the inequitable society for Thai's.  

 

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

You miss the point of this thread.  Travel insurance is not available for retirees who live here

You missed the point, you can get travel insurance but claiming may be an issue if you aren't based in say UK, but the insurance is only to enter the country anyway, a daft requirement anyway when people here don't need it

[CRUNCHER]

I must correct myself.  To those who pointed out that travel insurance can be for one of more years, you are indeed right.  It is the individual trips than can only be for 30 or occasionally 60 days. I should have been more precise. 

Still no good for anyone who needs to be stamped in for three or  more months such as many retirees.

[Salerno]

8 minutes ago, CRUNCHER said:

It is the individual trips than can only be for 30 or occasionally 60 days. I should have been more precise. 

"Precise" or "accurate"? Not everyone is over 70:

 

*For Economy, Standard and Premier policies, the Single trip policy will cover you for one trip up to:

365 days for persons aged up to and including age 70.

90 days for persons aged between 71 and 75.

31 days for persons aged between 76 and 85.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/travel-insurance

[JustAnotherHun]

1 hour ago, CRUNCHER said:

I must correct myself.  To those who pointed out that travel insurance can be for one of more years, you are indeed right.  It is the individual trips than can only be for 30 or occasionally 60 days. I should have been more precise. 

Still no good for anyone who needs to be stamped in for three or  more months such as many retirees.

Sorry, but wrong again.

There are travel insurances covering long stays up to two years (dependnig on age). For age 76+ up to 6 month.

[CRUNCHER]

1 hour ago, Salerno said:

"Precise" or "accurate"? Not everyone is over 70:

 

*For Economy, Standard and Premier policies, the Single trip policy will cover you for one trip up to:

365 days for persons aged up to and including age 70.

90 days for persons aged between 71 and 75.

31 days for persons aged between 76 and 85.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/travel-insurance

True. Not everyone is over 70. This thread is about elderly retirees many of whom are over 70.

 

As to the Post Office insurance here are the conditions:-

 

Please answer all questions honestly and to the best of your knowledge as any incorrect information provided may invalidate a claim or your policy.

You agree that you and anyone to be covered by this policy:

• Are UK residents and registered with a GP (Doctor) in the UK (a UK resident is a person whose main home is in the UK, Channel islands or Isle of Man and has not spent more than 6 months abroad in the last year)
• Have not already started a trip
• Are travelling from and returning to the UK
• Are not aware of any reason why you may need to claim
• Are not travelling against medical advice
• Are not travelling to get medical treatment or knowing that you will need treatment during a trip

How many retirees can meet the the first requirement not to mention the second or third?  

 

Not everyone is in my situation, but a great many I know are. I am definitely not a UK resident. I cannot register with a GP as I am not eligible under NHS. I have not been in UK for more than 2 years. I have not spent 6 months in UK for over 25 years. I am in Thailand so I have started my trip. I will not be starting and ending my trip in UK.

 

Remember this thread is a bout elderly retirees. Those who have a bee in their bonnet about travel insurance being of use to elderly retirees, especially those on Non O visa/extensions, need a reality check.

 

[In Full Agreement]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:51 PM, JustAnotherHun said:

I don't know how things are in other countries and my personal situation is different because I have a - crazy expansive- private insurance covering each and everything worldwide. They can't throw me out.

 

They can't throw me out.

You should tell that to the Thai government as they drag you on to a deportation plane.  ????  ????  ????

[JustAnotherHun]

10 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

They can't throw me out.

You should tell that to the Thai government as they drag you on to a deportation plane.  ????  ????  ????

If you would read the whole post instead of picking one sentence out, you would learn that I refered to insurance.????

Edited November 7, 2021 by JustAnotherHun

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, CRUNCHER said:

True. Not everyone is over 70. This thread is about elderly retirees many of whom are over 70.

 

As to the Post Office insurance here are the conditions:-

 

Please answer all questions honestly and to the best of your knowledge as any incorrect information provided may invalidate a claim or your policy.

You agree that you and anyone to be covered by this policy:

• Are UK residents and registered with a GP (Doctor) in the UK (a UK resident is a person whose main home is in the UK, Channel islands or Isle of Man and has not spent more than 6 months abroad in the last year)
• Have not already started a trip
• Are travelling from and returning to the UK
• Are not aware of any reason why you may need to claim
• Are not travelling against medical advice
• Are not travelling to get medical treatment or knowing that you will need treatment during a trip

How many retirees can meet the the first requirement not to mention the second or third?  

 

Not everyone is in my situation, but a great many I know are. I am definitely not a UK resident. I cannot register with a GP as I am not eligible under NHS. I have not been in UK for more than 2 years. I have not spent 6 months in UK for over 25 years. I am in Thailand so I have started my trip. I will not be starting and ending my trip in UK.

 

Remember this thread is a bout elderly retirees. Those who have a bee in their bonnet about travel insurance being of use to elderly retirees, especially those on Non O visa/extensions, need a reality check.

 

people have told you what to do but you only see problems, it's best you give up and stay in the UK

[Dickp]

Being the Thailand government dose not approve, Health insurance from a company out side of Thailand, if they start making those of us on extension of stay "O" NON  that have been here along time we will have to leave, wife and I both are 78. I have USA Government  Overseas TRICARE FOR LIFE for my 30+ years of service In the Air Force. Some you think it is free it is not, to be cover you must be able and to enrolled in Medicare Part A and Part B  which cost $148.50 per month so me and my wife pay $148.50 X 2 X 12= $3564.00 Plus the first $300 for medical care each year. We must first pay the Bill in full then send file for each claim, If approve TRICARE pays 80% of the hospital bill back to us. Tricare dose not insure Insurance cards or Policy's only prove of coverage is you military ID card.  Only 5 Hospital groups are approved by TRICARE and you guess which ones they are, Mind is Bangkok General Hospital, the other for are also the most costly in Thailand. If the Thai government does not accept TRICARE health insurance coverage.  We will be gone very quickly. Tricare has for the last 6 Years paid millions of baht for our coverage. My wife right now is in ICU for the last two days and @ 2 MRI scans Plus all the other charges .  

Edited November 7, 2021 by Dickp
spelling error and word left out

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Dickp said:

Being the Thai government dose not approve, Health insurance from a company out side of Thai

They do.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Dickp said:

Being the Thailand government dose not approve, Health insurance from a company out side of Thailand, if they start making those of us on extension of stay "O" NON  that have been here along time we will have to leave, wife and I both are 78. I have USA Government  Overseas TRICARE FOR LIFE for my 30+ years of service In the Air Force. Some you think it is free it is not, to be cover you must be able and to enrolled in Medicare Part A and Part B  which cost $148.50 per month so me and my wife pay $148.50 X 2 X 12= $3564.00 Plus the first $300 for medical care each year. We must first pay the Bill in full then send file for each claim, If approve TRICARE pays 80% of the hospital bill back to us. Tricare dose not insure Insurance cards or Policy's only prove of coverage is you military ID card.  Only 5 Hospital groups are approved by TRICARE and you guess which ones they are, Mind is Bangkok General Hospital, the other for are also the most costly in Thailand. If the Thai government does not accept TRICARE health insurance coverage.  We will be gone very quickly. Tricare has for the last 6 Years paid millions of baht for our coverage. My wife right now is in ICU for the last two days and @ 2 MRI scans Plus all the other charges .  

 

I hope you wife makes a full recovery.

 

No one is saying that people who have alternative medical insurance are Cheap Charlie, or similar, for not wanting specific insurance that is required by the Thai government. 

 

I think it's only a matter of time before annual insurance will be attached to extensions.  I know this upsets a lot of people, but preparations should be made for if / when this happens.  If that means you have to resort to your Plan B, then that's the way it will have to be. 

 

The Thai government couldn't care less about time in country, assets held here, and community ties, including family.

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I hope you wife makes a full recovery.

 

No one is saying that people who have alternative medical insurance are Cheap Charlie, or similar, for not wanting specific insurance that is required by the Thai government. 

 

I think it's only a matter of time before annual insurance will be attached to extensions.  I know this upsets a lot of people, but preparations should be made for if / when this happens.  If that means you have to resort to your Plan B, then that's the way it will have to be. 

 

The Thai government couldn't care less about time in country, assets held here, and community ties, including family.

Well I will be keeping my eyes open for a health insurance policy that excludes just about everything and has a 50-100 thousand dollar deductible...

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well I will be keeping my eyes open for a health insurance policy that excludes just about everything and has a 50-100 thousand dollar deductible...

 

Exactly.

 

The cheapest junk policy for $50,000 USD that basically covers nothing, and definitely covers zero, if you haven't disclosed pre-existing conditions.  

 

It's only a crime if you claim.

 

The policy document is worthless, except for gaining entry into Thailand.    

 

The Thai's got this one spot on.  ????

[newnative]

14 hours ago, Salerno said:

They do.

    Do you know if this is a recent policy change?  I am on an O-A retirement visa and Jomtien Immigration would not accept my April International health care policy--even though my coverage is far more than what is required and I got a letter from April (a lot of trouble) explaining my coverage and had them do a similar 'certificate' of coverage.  Only a set list of Thai insurance companies could be used.  Thanks!

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Do you know if this is a recent policy change?  I am on an O-A retirement visa and Jomtien Immigration would not accept my April International health care policy--even though my coverage is far more than what is required and I got a letter from April (a lot of trouble) explaining my coverage and had them do a similar 'certificate' of coverage.  Only a set list of Thai insurance companies could be used.  Thanks!

Pesky IOs trying to push you to an agent and convert to O

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Do you know if this is a recent policy change?  I am on an O-A retirement visa and Jomtien Immigration would not accept my April International health care policy--even though my coverage is far more than what is required and I got a letter from April (a lot of trouble) explaining my coverage and had them do a similar 'certificate' of coverage.  Only a set list of Thai insurance companies could be used.  Thanks!

It allegedly is part of the latest changes. Time will tell, but this suggests it applies to extensions:

 

In June this year, the cabinet made changes to the regulations to allow foreigners living in Thailand to purchase insurance policies outside Thailand to meet this requirement.

It had emerged that a significant number of elderly people had been forced to leave the country after living here for many years when they could not obtain the appropriate insurance cover from Thai insurers to comply with Immigration Bureau regulations.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

[newnative]

49 minutes ago, Salerno said:

It allegedly is part of the latest changes. Time will tell, but this suggests it applies to extensions:

 

In June this year, the cabinet made changes to the regulations to allow foreigners living in Thailand to purchase insurance policies outside Thailand to meet this requirement.

It had emerged that a significant number of elderly people had been forced to leave the country after living here for many years when they could not obtain the appropriate insurance cover from Thai insurers to comply with Immigration Bureau regulations.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2021/10/20/health-insurance-changes-for-expat-retirees/

Thanks so much!

[jwest10]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:57 PM, redwood1 said:

Never........But I guess things changed yesterday......I guess everyone else only needs 50,000 dollars in covid insurance...

Redwood1 Yes that is the way I read it and just Covit and notice the Thais is not needed as apprently covered under family insurance, of which we are not allowed to be added and amazing contribute most of the household expenses but that is bye the bye.
This Thailand pass is confusing and trying to get an answer on line and at the local Immigration office and it appears no one seems to know, for sure!!

[jwest10]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:40 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Travel insurance should be sufficient

Notice just by air what if driving?

[jwest10]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:59 PM, Jeffr2 said:

It's been needed for some time.  I came in a few weeks ago and it was mandatory.  I'm on a non O.  Never needed insurance until now.

Your policy just for Covit or everything? Just asking

[jwest10]

On 11/4/2021 at 1:12 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Not being smug just stating facts that we all have to be prepared to expect the unexpected and to go home at any time once those goalpost inevitably shift.

Many have absolutely nothing at home or relatives so the streets for many?