Pattaya retirees feel “trapped” in Thailand because of insurance

[The Fugitive]

34 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Playing devil’s advocate. Not meant to insult anyone. 
 

How are you going to pay your hospital bills for a stroke or Heart attack or injury if you do not have health insurance or 3 million baht in the bank?  If you cannot pay then who pays the hospital bills?  Odds are the older you get the more medical problems you will experience. 

Absolutely. Surely your priority should be ensuring that you are properly covered, not scheming how to avoid obtaining coverage. The nightmare situation is that you run out of cash to pay for ongoing hospital treatment and they 'pull the plug' letting nature take it's course when you could have recovered.

[thonglorjimmy]

2 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I feel trapped in Thailand because of my wife.  She won’t live anywhere else.  Insurance not a problem.

A few years ago my wife suggested that we move to the UK, I'd had a heart attack whilst on a long weekend in Singapore, and she was concerned that I might have health problems in the future.
We made tentitive plans, identifying an area to live and with my wife taking her English test, but after a few weeks I said that I wasn't ready to move, she felt likewise and our plans were put on hold.
Just a few days ago she mentioned that we should reconsider relocating, citing healthcare, l'm 74, and the hassle renewing my extension every year, so we're now thinking again, even given the costs involved. 
In our pool yesterday, it was 32 degrees, we were both enjoying a beer, I mentioned that it was 8 degrees in London and all is not well there, that was not enough to put her off.
Only time will tell.

[vandeventer]

21 hours ago, bobbin said:

This is really moving the goalposts..

 

I hope and expect it will be dropped..

It severs their propose, if they can't get tourist they make us say here and spend all are money, how nice?

[superal]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

It will be checkmate for me, absolutely.  I'm on the verge of leaving anyway.  Not sure where yet! LOL

Are all of the Asian countries having a similar entry requirement , similar to the Thai Pass ? To be more specific I was thinking about Cambodia . 

[Longwood50]

True and it is not just the insurance.  The cost of having a Covid test prior to departure, one upon arrival, and the quarantine even for 1 day makes a short trip to Singapore or Hong Kong costly.  

It seems that this insurance is nothing more than a hand shake between the government and the insurance companies to line pockets.  If there truly was a problem with unpaid medical bills a 100 baht fee on every incoming person would generate in a normal year over 4 billion baht.  The last normal year was 2019 and the government reported 448 baht in unpaid foreign health care bills through September 2019. In prior years it was even less. 

This seems like the government is using the old political adage to never let a crisis go to waste. 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Longwood50

[perconrad]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

they have alot of ruby's and other precious stones there.

They sure have, but the health system is not so good and especially not in the small towns and settlements.

The winter is long and the summer is short.

Only citizens from Nordic countries can live in Greenland without permission, all other citizens shall have permission and many shall have special visa which is not easy to get.

Accomodation are not easy to get and can be very expensive.

[kennw]

22 hours ago, jacko45k said:

People can live in Thailand on a retirement or marriage extension without any medical insurance..... but if they take a trip home, they will need insurance to get back in. Many feel they are too old or unhealthy or unable to afford  insurance, hence cannot leave.. as they would not qualify to return.

Yes this is a big problem for over 74 yrs old. Many insurance companies will not offer insurance over this age. Those that do dramatically increase their price as the period of cover (return to Thailand date and period to visa extension renewal date). Examples, over 74, and 180 days cover, Baht 23,040, over 180 days Baht 43,200. Note that the Thai Pass requirement says "Health Insurance with covid cover" If the concern is about returning retirees coming down with Covid, then make the insurance covid specific. This should dramatically reduce the cost. The fact is double vaxed people including over 74's are a very small percentage of those requiring hospitalization from covid. Un-vaxed people are those most likely to require hospitalization. Note also that the Thai Pass requires you to be double vaxed. Why should returning over 74's who dont need health insurance for their visa extension renewal, but suddenly do on their return from a home country family visit.   

[Sheryl]

20 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Well the last I heard and I could be wrong was all the other visas only needed  50,000 dollars covid insurance and the O and OA needed 100,000 dollars insurance covid and health........But like I said I could be wrong..

The difference is whether you are talking about obtaining a new O or O-A visa, or entering on a re-entry permit.

 

Everyone needs at least 50K health insurance that includes COVID to enter the country.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, sandyf said:

I returned on the 8th of October on a re-entry permit. I was stamped in until the 10th August 22 and my insurance is valid until 16th Dec 21. I used the airline insurance.

Presumably you had a return ticket that left in 16 December?

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Since when does a Non-O visa need health insurance to enter/re-enter Thailand?

 

Now! It is keeping me from going home to see my family and friends as it is going to be very hard to return as I am not going to help to line the pockets of this unelected soldier government via the crooked insurance companies, hospitals and hotels.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Never........But I guess things changed yesterday......I guess everyone else only needs 50,000 dollars in covid insurance...

+ Expensive PCR tests, hotel room, and the very serious possibility of being shut away for a very expensive 14 night prison sentence even if I am 100% clear of this Cvirus.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Berkshire said:

I wonder if this insurance requirement is COVID-driven.  That is, will it be a temporary scheme.  Hopefully it is as it's rather draconian and pointless. 

Government regulations IMO rarely cease when the reason for bringing them in ends.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Let us say if you miss the opportunity, you will regret it .

Coming back as a tourist and then using an agent looks easiest.

Hopefully insurance policies will become more common and competitive....

"Hopefully insurance policies will become more common and competitive...."

No chance, insurance companies are all full of tricks with legal jargon and small print, so they can use it to prevent paying out claims.

If this posts upsets any present or past insurance employees, then that's just too bad.

[redwood1]

So I guess those on a O visa need a list of insurance companies who will sell  one or two month policies to get back into Thailand after a trip out of Thailand.....Whos O visa only had a few months till renewal....

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by redwood1

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

True and it is not just the insurance.  The cost of having a Covid test prior to departure, one upon arrival, and the quarantine even for 1 day makes a short trip to Singapore or Hong Kong costly.  

It seems that this insurance is nothing more than a hand shake between the government and the insurance companies to line pockets.  If there truly was a problem with unpaid medical bills a 100 baht fee on every incoming person would generate in a normal year over 4 billion baht.  The last normal year was 2019 and the government reported 448 baht in unpaid foreign health care bills through September 2019. In prior years it was even less. 

This seems like the government is using the old political adage to never let a crisis go to waste. 

 

And how is it fair to charge everyone money for that cannot insure or will not insure ? Plenty of people paying already for insurance then they pay double to help those that wont insure.. not fair.

 

Plus after that is done even less will have insurance as they consider the 100bt their insurance.

 

Anyway you should thank those that skipped on bills without paying for this. Been quite a few stories about that and recently about another foreigner that did not want to pay. Most expats were cheering how he should not pay the hospital.

 

You reap what you sow, besides how realistic is it to expect an old person in case of emergency fly to their home country for healthcare.. usually cannot. So its best to be insured. 

[scubascuba3]

15 hours ago, david555 said:

Why they ruined their optional O-A market for backhanders by agents then ? ....Not logical ????

they moved them all to Os so still getting backhanders

[scubascuba3]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

They very well may push expats that are teetering on being able to afford to live here to dip into their 800k for insurance, which then makes them use an agent as they are now under their 800k, and when their money runs out, several years later, and they are past their used by date for Thailand, they are forced out of the country.      

 

That makes for more customers for agents and bigger money for corrupt immigration.  

 

They need to catch up on lost funds, due to covid.  

 

No money grabs here will surprise me in the future.  There will be many.  

 

i doubt agents\immigration could avoid the insurance if they brought it in. With the 800k process it's easy, in and out. Insurance not easy so i doubt it will be mandatory to have insurance with O

[redwood1]

So I guess this is the end of quick weekend trips to Singapore, Cambodia , Laos,,,etc  From Thailand with all the new hassles of returning to Thailand.....

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, asean said:

I still don't understand all this resistance to mandatory health insurance for foreigners in Thailand. If anything it is the opposite of being trapped as it is a weight off your shoulders....... It should be compulsory for ALL foreigners living in Thailand because the Thai public health system only covers Thai citizens.

Some people have money believe it or not, not to be wasted on insurance that 50\50 a claim is denied. Lots of hospitals at different price points

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, poohy said:

I can see special insurance packages added to price in China to get around this

Tour price will include everything including Insurance

Remember insurance companies are thai Chinese

I'm not surprised the Chinese come into it, any unfair money making schemes in this part of the world you can be sure the Chinese will be involved somewhere.

 

[DefaultName]

Does this kill border runs?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

So I guess this is the end of quick weekend trips to Singapore, Cambodia , Laos,,,etc  From Thailand with all the new hassles of returning to Thailand.....

We can only hope this current onerous scheme is temporary but I see it lasting at least one or two years and perhaps permanent. The horror!

[Jingthing]

Just now, DefaultName said:

Does this kill border runs?

Yes.

[DefaultName]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

That's going to make a lot of people unhappy.  They'll actually have to get a proper visa now, if they qualify, or leave if they don't.

I AM sympathetic, really, but I go through the hoops to follow the rules, so should they.  OK, maybe I'm not as sympathetic as I thought.  ????

[Longwood50]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

And how is it fair to charge everyone money for that cannot insure or will not insure ? Plenty of people paying already for insurance then they pay double to help those that wont insure.. not fair.

Insurance is not about "being fair"  Insurance is about sharing and covering the risk.   

The point being that it would still be far cheaper, more expedient, and more efficient to just charge everyone a measly 100 baht than requiring everyone to submit insurance forms to immigration.  Also, whose to say that the insurance company will actually pay.  I can "guarantee" or "insure" something that promise is only as good as the insurer who likely will do its utmost to not pay or not pay in full.  

The idea of the mandatory insurance does not eliminate the nightmare and burden from the hospitals in attempting to collect money from insurance companies around the world. 

Seems like a 100 baht fee is a ,win, win, for the tourist, and the hospital.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Tom H said:

No country for old man anymore.

It is old men who are playing at being politicians and trying to run the country. Don't let the black hair dye fool you. The Chuckle Brothers again spring to mind.

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Does this kill border runs?

if you can get travel insurance why would it? travel insurance usually covers £millions

[USEpat]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The 800k needs to be in for five months, not six. Two months before extension application and three months after.

Right - just rounded up - five months versus six makes no material difference.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Insurance is not about "being fair"  Insurance is about sharing and covering the risk.   

The point being that it would still be far cheaper, more expedient, and more efficient to just charge everyone a measly 100 baht than requiring everyone to submit insurance forms to immigration.  Also, whose to say that the insurance company will actually pay.  I can "guarantee" or "insure" something that promise is only as good as the insurer who likely will do its utmost to not pay or not pay in full.  

The idea of the mandatory insurance does not eliminate the nightmare and burden from the hospitals in attempting to collect money from insurance companies around the world. 

Seems like a 100 baht fee is a ,win, win, for the tourist, and the hospital.

Sorry but your about as far away from reality as it can get.

 

My health insurance has paid everything in Thailand what i need. 

 

Your 100bt would never replace insurance. So those of us that are insured pay double (not fair)

the cheap skates would think.. hey i pay 100bt now im insured and dont bother with insurance making it so that more people will not have insurance and hospitals will have to call on this fund and then the amount is too low.

 

Do you really think that 100bt would cover an expat for a whole year ?.

 

I don't mind Thailand collecting insurance and putting it in the ticket but it just wont work as the amounts should be a lot higher and those that stay here for a year or more would come out cheap.

 

Its not going to work.

 

But i agree its a hassle to show your insured and makes travel harder. 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, kennw said:

Why should returning over 74's who dont need health insurance for their visa extension renewal,

Be careful what you wish for.......