How to learn about renovating and interior design for an open plan apartment in Bangkok?

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, samtam said:

As for tiles, yes cold floors are not an issue, and they work well. I used them throughout, rather than wood. (The first time round on one project I had maple wood floors, but they were a disaster, as they were not properly laid, so we removed all our goods and chattels, and took it all up, and laid large granite composite tiles (80x80cm) throughout....

I find it amazing how many unsuitable tiles are used all over Thailand. It seems many people only care how they look. Many tiles which are installed outside and in bathrooms are slippery. IMHO that should be one of the first things to consider. What's the point of nice looking tiles if it is impossible to walk on them if they are wet? But it seems many designers, contractors and decision makers ignore such basic questions.

I spent already some time learning about the different types of tiles and slowly I get an idea about them. But tiles are obviously only a small part of a renovation. There is a lot to learn and unfortunately too many people who don't know or don't care or just (try to) sell to get the highest commission.

[samtam]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I find it amazing how many unsuitable tiles are used all over Thailand. It seems many people only care how they look. Many tiles which are installed outside and in bathrooms are slippery. IMHO that should be one of the first things to consider. What's the point of nice looking tiles if it is impossible to walk on them if they are wet? But it seems many designers, contractors and decision makers ignore such basic questions.

I spent already some time learning about the different types of tiles and slowly I get an idea about them. But tiles are obviously only a small part of a renovation. There is a lot to learn and unfortunately too many people who don't know or don't care or just (try to) sell to get the highest commission.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. There is not a lot of common sense with these decisions on choices for tiles and practically everything you can think of. When we renovated our lobby I was involved in fabric and carpet choice, (and everything else). The "designer" came up with light colours, (beiges), which might be ok in private residences, (I used light silks for sofas in my apartment), but completely unsuitable in high traffic areas. The charcoal grey sofas in the lobby still look good after 8 years, and the striped "area" rugs with inter alia shades of grey do not show any dirt. Simple basics. Layout is vital too.

 

[davemos]

Many interior supply shops offer design services  IKEA Home Pro,Thai Watsadu etc .Your condo management will have to approve plans first ,re structural issues and lift access. I've done 2 here .You have to be there and direct away from mistakes .Paint ,floor lighting built in and kitchen first .Expect a couple of weeks  more than quoted too .Have fun ! Ps Have a few trades I'd recommend 

[jackdd]

Some personal recommendations by me:

Choose white, grey or beige for walls, ceilings, floors and curtains, this easily combines with everything else and keeps the room bright. If you decide to paint all walls green you might get bored of it after a while, or it might not match with the sofa of your choice.

Put a good amount of ceiling lights that allow you to properly light the room if you need it. In my opinion many of the "modern" places are simply too dark. For background light you can just use some lamps. Or if you later notice that you really never need so much light you can later still replace the light bulbs with ones that have less light output.

You said you want only one bathroom, which is fine, but I really like having two toilets, in case one is in use by another person.

Put in enough electrical outlets (and think about adding ethernet as well), there can hardly be too many.

Try to avoid built-in furniture for everything small. A big wardrobe is ok, but a built-in makeup table or TV rack just sucks if you want to adjust the room later on.

[moe666]

I bought an old house back in 1993 and redid it. I am knocking down stuff, got to the old kitchen which was very small and separated from the living room by a wall. I am thinking what will that look like opened up. I finally decided if it wasn't right I could put it back. The wall has been gone since that day.

There  is plenty of stuff to look at on line have a go

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Some personal recommendations by me:

Choose white, grey or beige for walls, ceilings, floors and curtains, this easily combines with everything else and keeps the room bright. If you decide to paint all walls green you might get bored of it after a while, or it might not match with the sofa of your choice.

Put a good amount of ceiling lights that allow you to properly light the room if you need it. In my opinion many of the "modern" places are simply too dark. For background light you can just use some lamps. Or if you later notice that you really never need so much light you can later still replace the light bulbs with ones that have less light output.

You said you want only one bathroom, which is fine, but I really like having two toilets, in case one is in use by another person.

Put in enough electrical outlets (and think about adding ethernet as well), there can hardly be too many.

Try to avoid built-in furniture for everything small. A big wardrobe is ok, but a built-in makeup table or TV rack just sucks if you want to adjust the room later on.

Thanks

You confirm my thoughts about colors. 

The electric installation is one of the few things which I don't worry about. I have lots of experience with electric and electronics. Currently I plan to have all "smart" with Home Assistance. What I don't know until now is how many (LED) lights I need and which color temperature (probably different in different places).

[jackdd]

27 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What I don't know until now is how many (LED) lights I need and which color temperature (probably different in different places).

Use ceiling lamps that have standard sockets, E27 or GU10, then it's easy to exchange the light bulbs to whatever you like later.

 

My condo has these ceiling lamps about every 1.2 meters spaced apart, which take a single E27 light bulb.

I replaced the bad light bulbs that came with it with some Philips MyCare 12w Cool Daylight bulbs, a pack of 4 for 300 something Baht on Shopee or Lazada.

That's now properly bright if I want light, and the light quality of these bulbs is also quite good.

Edited November 10, 2021 by jackdd

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Use ceiling lamps that have standard sockets, E27 or GU10, then it's easy to exchange the light bulbs to whatever you like later.

 

My condo has these ceiling lamps about every 1.2 meters spaced apart, which take a single E27 light bulb.

I replaced the bad light bulbs that came with it with some Philips MyCare 12w Cool Daylight bulbs, a pack of 4 for 300 something Baht on Shopee or Lazada.

That's now properly bright if I want light, and the light quality of these bulbs is also quite good.

Thanks

Every 1.2 meters (in each direction) are a lot of bulbs. And that is the distance which I had originally in mind but then I thought that might be too many bulbs (or down lights or whatever).

Do you ever have them all on on full brightness?

Would you recommend the 1.2 meter distance? Of more or less? 

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks

Every 1.2 meters (in each direction) are a lot of bulbs. And that is the distance which I had originally in mind but then I thought that might be too many bulbs (or down lights or whatever).

Do you ever have them all on on full brightness?

Would you recommend the 1.2 meter distance? Of more or less? 

I think the distance here is OK, it's properly bright to do something. When I do some work, or eat, or whatever I turn them all on, when watching TV I have a small desk lamp that I turn on.

When I bought them I simply bought the 12w bulbs for every lamp. You can of course adjust this by area.

For example in kitchen and eating area you probably want a lot of light, so put 12w there, over the sofa area you probably don't need so much light, so maybe 9w or even 6w could be enough there. Make sure to have separate light switches for the different areas.

 

[lkn]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I definitely will involve a professional who tells the contractors what to do and looks if they do it right.

But I also want to learn myself about some of those things. I.e. some contractors say yes to anything […]

You need an architect first, not a contractor/builder.

 

There is just so much personal preference involved in a good design, that no-one can teach you how to do it, but a good architect can ask you the right questions and come up with designs.

 

For example, do you listen to music? So you need a sound system somewhere? You want big loudspeakers on the floor for optimal sound, or you want discrete flush-mounted wall or ceiling speakers for better aesthetics? You want all the wiring for his hidden? You want it connected to your entertainment system?

 

Does your girlfriend need a makeup area with storage space for jewelry and other stuff?

 

Do you need a bathtub? Do you want bathroom connected to bedroom? Maybe ensuite? Do you then also need a dressing area with cabinets so you have a good flow from bed to shower to cabinets? Do you need to store stuff like shaving equipement and soaps in your shower cabin? Do you need a place for a permanent scale in the bathroom?

 

Do you need a laundry basket near your bathroom or bedroom? Do you need a place to put your clothes when you go to sleep?

 

Do you have any office appliances like a printer? Would you like it hidden in a cabinet? And do you need cables for this? Do you need WiFi access points throughout the apartment which are wired with ethernet?

 

Do you need a washing machine and a place for a drying rack? Do you need a place to iron your clothes and maybe a place to store the iron, ironing board, drying rack, and maybe some baskets for clean clothes?

 

There are literally hundreds of questions I could ask you, that would affect the layout.

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, lkn said:

For example, do you listen to music? So you need a sound system somewhere? You want big loudspeakers on the floor for optimal sound, or you want discrete flush-mounted wall or ceiling speakers for better aesthetics? You want all the wiring for his hidden? You want it connected to your entertainment system?

Obviously a decent sound system with real speakers on the floor. That's one of the few things which I know about. ????

 

[lkn]

25 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Obviously a decent sound system with real speakers on the floor. That's one of the few things which I know about. ????

I did ceiling speakers in bedroom, kitchen, and office, pretty happy with that choice, (bookshelf speakers in living room). For office, if you want speakers there, you also need to consider where you will be sitting. Many will instinctively want to face the view, but if you have a big screen, it might feel better to have the view to the side, instead of behind your screen. And with a screen, consider if sun will be reflected in this screen…

 

There are just so many decisions about every single little thing, and it depends on the individual.

 

A lot though can be changed, but moving a toilet is near impossible, and generally plumbing is fixed in place, so this is probably the first thing you really want to be certain about. Next thing is electricity, placement of switches, think e.g. if you have a living room with an entrance and door to bedroom, you probably want light switch for living room both near the main entrance, and near door to bedroom, so electricity is next thing, and here you get to all the extra cables for speakers, internet, printer, cables for wall mounted TV, etc. Maybe you want freestanding table in your office? So you need an outlet in the floor.

 

So I think I will repeat, get a good architect to help you with this, to get an idea about your requirements.

 

Maybe also decide on a budget ????

 

And if this is your first customized condo, you will learn a lot in the process that you can use for the next place, or when you renovate it in 10 years…

 

Oh… and I forgot about curtains, I installed electric curtains in my living room, because in Thailand it is not unusual we want to close them in the afternoon, and we have four of them.

 

Another thing is ambient light, I love that stuff, so I have lowered ceilings and cut out a frame for the curtain rail and put in ambient light like the photo below. Oh yeah, and also notice we got gribs on the kitchen cabinet doors below the sink to hold a towel, another details that many kitchen designers forget: A place to put your towels.

 

Also regarding kitchen: Prefer drawers to cabinets, much easier to access stuff in drawers, but they are slightly more expensive, which is why many kitchens use cabinets for most storage.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by lkn

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

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[LarrySR]

After watching lots of construction and renovations I've noticed how its done here in Thailand....Build it...tear it out...build it again...tear it out...then build it again and get it 80% correct. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, LarrySR said:

After watching lots of construction and renovations I've noticed how its done here in Thailand....Build it...tear it out...build it again...tear it out...then build it again and get it 80% correct. 

80% doesn't sound too bad. ???? 

[newnative]

     My Thai partner and I have bought and renovated a number of condos in Thailand and we just finished a house.  We always design just for ourselves, even though we have ended up selling the condos and moving on to the next project.  I like your idea of designing for yourself and your girlfriend.  Do what you want, not what someone else tells you.   For example, I always like a lot of storage.  I don't like to see clutter.  So, I make sure there's a place for everything and it's always part of the design.  Think carefully about how you live in your space--and do your plan to accommodate how you spend your time.  Do you like to watch tv in bed?  Plan for that.  How many people do you want your dining space and table to seat?  Plan for that.  Do you need a place to work?  Do you like to cook or is the microwave your best buddy?   Etc., etc.   Good planning before you actually start the work is key.  Don't forget things like the placement of electrical outlets, switches, and lighting.  

    We have found that custom can sometimes be had for little more than off-the-shelf--if you have a good source.  With one project, we started with a kitchen estimate from a European company that does custom kitchens.  Way too expensive.  Then we asked for an estimate of our design from a large Thai retail company that specializes in tile and kitchen design.  Cheaper, but we had to use standard kitchen cabinets--and the high gloss they use tends to yellow.  We could have made it work with some design compromises but we weren't satisfied.  So, instead, we used a Bangkok custom cabinet maker. 

    I drew the designs, sent them to them, and they made working construction plans.  They met us on-site, took careful measurements, we fine-tuned the plans, and most of the construction was done at their factory.  When everything was ready, they came and did the installation, with some on-site finishing work.  They also worked hand-in-hand with the granite people.  The cost was a bit more than the Thai retailer but much cheaper than the European company.  They have also done custom bath vanities, armoires, desks, shoe cabinets, bookcases, and, so far, anything else I dream up.  We like the gloss acrylic that they use--no yellowing.  They were great to work with and we have used them about 6 times.

      Here's an example of one project, one of my favorites--and also the most challenging as the space was so tiny.  My partner and I bought a 24sqm studio condo in Bangkok as a getaway place.  Came with just the kitchen and a bad bedroom armoire.  Before starting the design, we thought about what we wanted and needed for how we live.  In this case, our living would be once a month visits for a week or so--and using the condo to crash at after international trips.  My partner would occasionally need to do some work at a work space.

     Even though the space was tiny, we wanted the design to accommodate:  Comfortable seating for 2 to watch tv.  Big refrigerator with automatic ice maker.  Hidden clothes washer.  Work and dining space to comfortably seat 2.  Storage for large luggage.  Ample clothes storage, including easy-to-access drawers.  Some separation of the bedroom area so it feels like a different space from the living area.  (When I am in my living room I don't want to be in my bedroom, and vice versa.)  Better bathroom ingress/egress.  Good lighting for reading in bed.   A king-size bed with access on both sides--no crawling over the other person to get out.  Some display space for art and objects.  Bed side tables of some sort.

     We used the Bangkok furniture company to construct the custom designs we came up with:  A combination refrigerator cabinet with luggage storage above.  A desk/dining table with 2 drawers.  New cabinet doors for the kitchen to hide the clothes washer.   Twin armoire cabinets on either side of the bed, each with drawers and a pull out shelf, with a bridge cabinet across the bed for more storage, art display, and bed lighting.  Bathroom door changed to a sliding door to make the small bath space function better.

     We were very pleased with the result.  We like this company because they often improve our designs.  In this case, they incorporated the sliding door into the armoire unit and added extra lighting to the armoire bridge.  The company did most of the work while we stayed in Pattaya--sending us progress photos.  When they were done, we hired another company to do two floor-to-ceiling screens--one separating the bedroom area and a second smaller one by the kitchen--to add a little separation to it.  The finishing touch was wallpaper--two subtle but different wallpaper designs in the two areas to further suggest separate spaces.  Some before and after photos.  

     To educate yourself a bit, I would suggest watching some Youtube videos.  Think of Living also does some good reviews of mostly Bangkok condo and house projects--both tv shows and also photos and project plans on their website.  My partner and I like to watch videos and we also like to tour the model rooms in new condo projects to get ideas.  Some of the models are really nicely done with very good quality of design--I'm almost always impressed and pick up ideas to use.  I used to read Architectural Digest and Interior Design a lot when we were in the US--you could look at some magazines and design books. 

     Make notes of things you like--and use your cell phone to snap photos to keep a record.  If you're out at a store and see a sofa you like, snap a photo.  I like to snap the item's sales tag so I'll have the price and usually the item's model name and dimensions.  Take your time.  Someone mentioned living in the space awhile before doing anything and I think that's a very good suggestion. 

    When laying out and trying furniture arrangements, I sometimes make and use large paper patterns with the dimensions of the furniture I'm planning to buy so I can move them easily around the floor and see how they fit.   I'm a visual person and I like to actually see things beforehand as much as possible--and leave as little to chance as possible.  How's a large 75-inch tv going to look on a certain wall?  Make a pattern, stick it on the wall, and see.   Have fun and good luck to you!

    

[lkn]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

Here's an example of one project, one of my favorites--and also the most challenging as the space was so tiny.  My partner and I bought a 24sqm studio condo in Bangkok

This is *very* impressive! Only thing I couldn’t find was a bedside charging station for my phone, but perhaps there are outlets behind the pull-out table?

[newnative]

19 minutes ago, lkn said:

This is *very* impressive! Only thing I couldn’t find was a bedside charging station for my phone, but perhaps there are outlets behind the pull-out table?

   There was an outlet on the right side of the window wall by the armoire and another on the left side by the Asian cabinet--we used that one to power the electric recliner sofa and the table light.   We built two outlets into the new refrigerator cabinet on the side by the desk and mostly used them to charge laptops and cell phones, and occasionally plug-in a printer.  In hindsight, we might have recessed the artwork above the bed a bit more and had an outlet on a shelf that was wide enough for a cell phone.  I find with every project there are some things I would do a bit differently, given a second chance.  

[Tom H]

On 11/10/2021 at 9:53 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

The good news is that I have a good contact to someone who can arrange and control the workers.

The bad news is that I know the name IKEA better than Divani, Poro, Villeroi u Boch, Eckersmann kitchen, Lignet Roset

But to be fair apart from a computer table I never bought any furniture from anybody.

And just spending money on expensive companies is not my plan. Like I wrote above: I want to understand the basics. Part of that is also to understand the differences in design and quality between i.e. IKEA and the companies you mention.

Bentley vs Toyota... google Boundary Bangkok than you see the Bentley.  Ikea is an assault to my understanding of quality. Sorry.

 

[KKr]

On 11/10/2021 at 7:27 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

But other decisions, like where to eat and where to work can be made later.

let me start with this one:
you do not need eight sockets, Fibre Optic etc, at your dining table.
Also, the lighting may be different depending on the zone that you intend to use.

having done over ten strip (to the beams) and re-build projects from 30 to 250 sqm, the last one more or less OK, my two cents......
Some ideas to look out for, in random order.:
Put sockets every two meters.
Put switches where you go in / leave the room.
One Bathroom, fine, but do make a 2 sqm visitors loo + washbasin (or even a Shower) Can combine with Washing machine, Western Top loader better as they spindry faster since it is a larger drum and can find under 60 cm wide.
Kitchen cabinets are usually not enough, and the fridge you'd like maybe 80 or 90 cm wide. Plenty of required space examples on PinInterest.
Make sure the hub vents to the outside world, the same for the Bathroom and Loo/Laundryroom.
Make sure hot/cold water available in kitchen and washbasin, not just shower.

People like to sit with their back against a wall, if no wall, use a low sideboard with decorations items to create a visual partition. (same for bed)

Dining area / cum bar can be done, but ensure there is somewhere to put your feet under the table instead of kick some kitchen cabinet when you are eating / enjoying yourselves.

Dining table can be nice, I'd choose an extendable/foldable one depending on the expected use (read a newspaper/do some work or just eating place for two) 

Generally it is advisable to create distinctly different zones, kitchen / working desk / eating / relaxing so your mind knows what to think about when using a certain area.

Bear in mind how you will use the apartment, where will you walk. (going from kitchen to dining table, it is not efficient to walk around the sofa; can you dump heavy shopping bags near the door or have to cross the apartment, same but v.v. for garbage, etc.)

Do put ceiling fans, amazing how quiet they work yet give huge airflow.

HUGE Windows are nice, especially when facing North, for logical reasons.

Tile floors are noisy, and in many condo's not allowed.
Can put a "floating" parquet floor, pleasant to the feet, and very quiet when walking.

One thing I have seen a few times in Thailand already, some builders do not understand the need to put waterproofing under a tiled floor in kitchen or bathroom. make sure they do waterproof the floor and where appropriate the wall.

Rip out all old electricity wiring, and put in what Europeans call "earth-leak" protectors for wet areas at least. (also, it is advisable to put more that two fuses so that if your kitchen is using heavy load, not all apartment sits in the dark)

Enjoy !